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Stack Overflow + Salary Calculator = your worth

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Meh

No server side development, no Unix

Meh.

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

No server side development

Well, there's Javascript which can be used as a server-side development language

/sigh

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

No Embedded or Driver development either.

Are we getting silo'd in our branches?

I mean - I can see how Stack Overflow is would be biased towards Web development, seeing as they are a web-based entity.

But... I do C/C++ for ARM Cortex-M MCUs so small that they usually don't have an OS. But whenever I happen to meet software engineers from other disciplines and happen to tell them as much, half the time their immediate reaction is bewilderment; they can't imagine a system without a full-blown OS or a file-system.

I can see how Python could be rising in popularity - among web developers. But I've yet to see a Python compiler for an ARM M0+.

..Then again, I have written an HTTP server for a Cortex-M. ...twice.

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

No embedded.

Pah!

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

Stack Overflow is would be biased towards Web development, seeing as they are a web-based entity.

I can see how S.O. would be biased toward silicon designers since they use silicon based semiconductors in all their machines

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

I loved writing code for bare metal.

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Joke

Re: No server side development, no Unix

I loved writing code for bare metal.

I prefer paper, all those coins end up weighing their bit!

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Re: But I've yet to see a Python compiler for an ARM M0+

@OldCrow.

Since you asked: CircuitPython

The atmel-samd branch supports the ATSAMD21G18 which is M0+. Various other architectures as well. I mostly use it (or rather MicroPython, it's upstream parent) on STM32M4s.

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Meh

Re: No server side development, no Unix

and rating 'Web Devs' as earning MORE than desktop application developers? W.T.F. ??

that goes DOUBLE when you look at the quality of web development these days. Or are they assuming that all desktop applications are UWP/C-pound/dot-NOT (which is a pretty worthless skill set in my opinion)

I do embedded and kernel-level stuff (and all that other stuff when I have to) so, meh.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No server side development, no Unix

Shame that form was so horribly broken then. How embarrassing.....

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

Written an HTTP server for Cortex M twice? Here's a wheel, can you invent something for my car to put on the axels please?

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

Well, there's Javascript which can be used as a server-side development language

Sir, JavaScript on the server is like a dog walking on its hind legs. It is not done well, but you are surprised to find it done at all.

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FAIL

Re: No server side development, no Unix

@ Yet Another Anonymous coward

Ooh! I didn't know S.O. baked their own silicon. Tell me more? </sarcasm>

I imagine that S.O. maintains their own servers and codebase. Accordingly, they would have more sysadmins and Ruby developers (ref. Atwood's blog) to bounce things off of, than C/C++ folk.

Further, the algorithm modeling salary development is going to be based on data from U.S., so the maximums are going to differ from e.g. U.K.. Further, unless they paid someone for better data, the (croud-sourced) data-mass that they do have is going to be rather heavily reflecting the S.O. power-user base. Since nobody else bothers filling the questionnaire.

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

@ matjaggard

>Written an HTTP server for Cortex M twice? Here's a wheel, can you invent something for my car to put on the axels please?

So we can safely assume that you've never made software for mass-produced small objects with price and/or safety constraints?

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Re: No server side development, no Unix

"@ matjaggard

>Written an HTTP server for Cortex M twice? Here's a wheel, can you invent something for my car to put on the axels please?

So we can safely assume that you've never made software for mass-produced small objects with price and/or safety constraints?

"

Or two different companies

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No server side development, no Unix

Average salaries are interesting but then so is the distribution. Web Devs may on average be earning more than desktop app developers however I have managed to earn considerably more than that average my entire career due to a mix of language skills, flexibility (intellectual not physical) and domain knowledge. You need that variability of income in order for it to be worth making an effort to exceed the norm. If all jobs pay roughly the same in a sector it all becomes a bit meh.

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The UK salaries seem totally wide of the mark, as evidenced by the adverts immediately below the calculator, all of which fall below the lowest percentile.

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We're absolute mugs working in the UK, especially those in web development it seems.

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"all of which fall below the lowest percentile"

Correct. Massively below I'm sorry to say.....

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Anonymous Coward

Note that the British levels appear to hit a ceiling *very* quickly- the figure for twenty years experience is barely higher than that for five, unlike the US.

This would seem to confirm the general trend that the UK as a whole- or at least England- does not value or encourage technical and engineering-based skills and employment. But then, what did you expect from a nation more obsessed with making money from watching house prices inflate ludicrously than actually doing something useful?

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as evidenced by the adverts immediately below the calculator, all of which fall below the lowest percentile.

So the subset of employers who have unfilled vacancies that they are so desperate to fill that they have to run web ads fall below the likely range of salaries for that specialty?

Is there an economist in the house ?

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"But then, what did you expect from a nation more obsessed with making money from watching house prices inflate ludicrously than actually doing something useful?"

I would agree that the vast majority of Brits are extremely short-sighted. There was one very memorable interview I had in Yorkshire for a job as a PIC assembler programmer for some embedded operation, around 2001/2 or so. The salary discussion came up, and I was offered 17.5K, which did not meet my expectations: I wanted an absolute minimum of 20K at the time, and the hiring manager laughed at me and said "20K? My most senior programmer has 8 years of experience, and he's only on 24K! What makes you think you're worth 20K?"

I politely thanked him for his time and promptly changed career. I also left the UK 3 years later, because (amid other reasons) I never forgot to pay close attention to what my superiors were earning. I wonder if the manager at that operation realised quite how much insight he'd given me that day, about my potential future at his company. Anyway, I'm still grateful for it.

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We're absolute mugs working in the UK, especially those in web development it seems.

It seems I am only 40% as valued as they like to tell me I am at every staff development review.

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Anonymous Coward

but it's "median" so I take those numbers with a pinch of salt.

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What else would you expect from a country that would abandon it's allies time and time again when they're in the most dire situation?

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Anonymous Coward

UK. With my level of skills and experience, if I asked for the salary this tool quoted me in an interview, I'd be laughed out of the building.

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Anonymous Coward

Perhaps the comments show why management are always talking about a talent shortage and never paying to solve it...

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UK. With my level of skills and experience, if I asked for the salary this tool quoted me in an interview, I'd be laughed out of the building.

I think it is the salary you accept that causes laughter as you leave the premises ... sadly ... bastards.

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Silver badge

if I asked for the salary this tool quoted me in an interview, I'd be laughed out of the building

Interestingly, the more skills you add, the lower the salary seems to get - though not by much.

And on my tablet the site seemed very reluctant to let me add more roles or skills without pressing submit and back for each addition. Perhaps they're not paying their developers enough...

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Anonymous Coward

Okay, so I put in my details, and it gave me a result where the lower end salary was *significantly* higher than I'm earning.

So in theory, according to Stackoverflow, I'm being massively underpaid.

But the thing is, I've done the research; I know what the jobs market is like right now, and I can tell you that even the lower figure suggested by SO's calculator is unrealistic -- the job available out there (even the ones advertised on SO itself) simply do not offer salary figures that high.

I suspect that the SO calculator is biased based on the kind of people who answered their survey. I would guess that higher paid developers were more likely to respond to the survey than low-paid ones, and thus the figures are skewed. Or possibly it's intentionally overstating it in order to inflate egos and expectations.

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Happy

So in theory, according to Stackoverflow, I'm being massively underpaid.

Well, at your next review, I think you can claim to have found an "independent" salary assessment tool that, being on SO, has to be taken into account .... industry standard ... feel happy ;-) Get them!

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This post has been deleted by its author

This post has been deleted by its author

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Facepalm

DBA

Oh bloody hell, the DBAs are now less valuable than the sysadmins?! Not so long ago we were the golden boys and girls of IT, everybody wanted to be a DBA...oh wait hang on!

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Re: DBA

DBA you don't do it for the money - it's about the lifestyle !

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Anonymous Coward

Re: DBA

That's because there's fewer sysadmins due to "cloud"

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Anonymous Coward

I said I was a WebSphere expert and the site gave me a NullPointerException.

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I had a problem so I decided to program in Java. Now I have a ProblemFactory.

The old ones are the best.

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FAIL

Wot, no Fortran!?

...and ludicrously high pay scales that certainly don't reflect my experiences.

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Joke

Re: Wot, no Fortran!?

Where is your time machine, may I have a go ?

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$ to pound £

SysAdmin with 15yr experience = £79k

Lol the head of IT isn't even on that. Fuck, the director above him isn't even on that.

Where do they get this pish from? Are they doing an Apple and changing $ to £ and leaving the number the same?

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Re: $ to pound £

Lol the head of IT isn't even on that

Where do you work ??????

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Re: $ to pound £

I was going to post the same thing about exchange rate.

It seems if you divide all numbers by 2 you may get a little closer to reality.

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Re: $ to pound £

If that's typical for the UK then I see little incentive to move there, I first started making that much about 15 years ago.

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Re: $ to pound £

Actually, I came across this:

http://www.aplitrak.com/?adid=ZGVjbGFuci42Mzk4NC40NzA3QHNlbml0b3IuYXBsaXRyYWsuY29t

Manchester airport, who would want work at Manchester airport?

£22k-£27k ? Not a joke.

Then comes the reason:

* Scripting knowledge (desirable).

One moment ... how can you even administer servers without scripting knowledge ?

I anticipate a lot of interest in this position so apply NOW to avoid disappointment!

Wow, just wow ... the pisstake ...

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Coat

Re: $ to pound £

From the advert:

"THIS REALLY IS A COMPANY THAT LOOKS AFTER THEIR STAFF! "

*Looks at Salary*

"£22k-£27k "

*Looks at headline grabbing title*

"THIS REALLY IS A COMPANY THAT LOOKS AFTER THEIR STAFF! "

*Get coat, goes home.*

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Anonymous Coward

Re: $ to pound £

It's in Manchester. I'm not saying there aren't interesting jobs nor smart people in Manchester, but virtually the only place you are going to get decent salaries in tech is in London. Our top sysadmins are on about £80k, same as our top developers. Head of IT, I've seen his Camden townhouse, he's getting at least 3 times that.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: $ to pound £

Have to agree with you on that, my last two roles have been London then Birmingham, though I work from home but I wouldn't get anywhere near my salary with a job up in these there parts.

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Re: $ to pound £

It seemed to think I could be making at least twice what I'm currently on, which is pish quite frankly.

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Re: $ to pound £

It's in Manchester.

I think the industry sector is also relevant. You see a lot of very well paid jobs in London, the best paid are in banking/finance, and many of them require finance experience as well as tech skills (also degrees but that's a different article).

I'd say it's inevitable that if you say you live in London, and you don't work in finance, the salary calculator will suggest you're massively underpaid. At least it did for me......

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