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Itching to stuff iOS 11 on your iPhone? You may want to hold off for a bit

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Oh yeah .....

Oh, and if you do decide to update straight away, please do the sensible thing and take a backup.

See, this is precisely the reason I don't use Apple products any more. I had three iOS updates and three failures. I lost everything as the backups were corrupted and wouldn't work after the update.

Never again.

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Silver badge

Re: Oh yeah .....

Not sure how you managed that, I don't think what you claim is even possible.

I've never had a problem with iOS updates and I've been using iPhones since the 3gs. I always follow the same recipe, based on how I have always done OS upgrades on anything from a DD-WRT router to high end Unix server:

1) take a full backup

2) shut down and restart

3) perform upgrade

4) shut down and restart

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Re: Oh yeah .....

DougS, you always do it the same way but you don't think what the OP says is possible. How would you know what's possible if you've never varied your approach?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oh yeah .....

See, this is precisely the reason I don't use Apple products any more. I had three iOS updates and three failures. I lost everything as the backups were corrupted and wouldn't work after the update.

You may have been caught out by the one thing Apple has bizarrely not implemented, backup versioning. As a side effect of the otherwise remarkably good working automation, iTunes defaults to automatically backing up an iPhone that gets connected. The problem: it does so by overwriting the old backup instead of keeping one or two copies around and rotating them out.

To do it right, you first need to make a backup of your iDevice, then dig it out in the iTunes "devices" and right-click on it to mark it "Archive" which makes iTunes treat it as read-only. Only then can you be sure that the next backup doesn't overwrite the previous one.

I'm looking at the backup functions of iMazing - that has an automated backup for iDevices on WiFi, and it does keep past versions around. As a pure device data handling tool it's a lot better than iTunes, especially now iTunes had its apps management ripped out - you know, just when you need it to manage a new OS install? I'm not exactly impressed by that.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oh yeah .....

Never again.

Luckily Android's out there to give you the reliability and stability you crave. And, as Android phones never receive updates anyway, you'll be doubly fine.

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Re: Oh yeah .....

"Backups are a waste of disk space. You wouldn't keep stale food in your fridge, so why keep stale data on your disks?"

Well trolled, but I ain't gonna bite.

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Gold badge

Re: Oh yeah .....

Not sure how you managed that, I don't think what you claim is even possible.

I've never had a problem with iOS updates

DougS,

OK, I can understand that iOS has always worked perfectly for you. But surely you've noticed the odd headline in El Reg? Or just know that it's a computer - and they don't "just work".

Even if it's only a million-to-one chance that someone could get 3 iOS upgrade failures in a row - well million to one chances come up nine times out of ten. Or to be serious, they've now sold hundreds of millions of iOS devices, so million to one chances would be expected to happen hundreds/thousands of times per update cycle. Also if a device and its configuration cause a failure once, it's more likely to do so again.

I've had one iOS update fail, on an iPad. I'd backed it up - so all I had to do was plug it into iTunes, factory reset it and run the update again.

Also almost all the updates before about iOS 6 broke WiFi in some way. WiFi on the iPad 1 was a bit flakey, got almost fixed by the later point releases of iOS, but then got borked again when they upgraded to iOS 4 (I think), and the first few iterations of iOS 5 re-introduced some problems. I remember having to give my iPad a fixed IP address to make it reasonably reliable at staying on the network for a few months.

I don't recall seeing an iTunes backup be corrupted, but it's a file on a disk, so that's just to be expected sometimes. Another poster points out that iOS backups over-write each other, and I know people who've plugged in a problematic iDevice to get iTunes to reset it, and it's done an auto-backup on top of their previous good one and so destroyed their only backup by pisspoor software design. They should at least be rotating backup files.

Finally I had a friend on a 3GS who wanted to upgrade to a later iPhone. And I was unable to back his phone up - because he'd never done it, and iTunes got into some weird cycle of trying to sync/backup and couldn't do either as it hadn't been connected for so long. Which is pretty shit given they wrote/approved all the software and designed the hardware. Because when Apple stuff doesn't 'just work' they don't give you much in the way of tools or help to try and get it going again.

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Coat

Re: Oh yeah .....

"Even if it's only a million-to-one chance that someone could get 3 iOS upgrade failures in a row"

Problems have come up and I agree with the article that holding fire looks like a good bet but on this thread it looks more likely that the OP was exaggerating or mistaken.

Neck on the line (my wife is a maths teacher, not the forum backlash) but a million to one chance (your figure) for 3 iOS upgrade failures in a row means the chance of an iOS upgrade failure is on the order of one in a hundred each (assuming they are the only three the OP was talking about and making various daring assertions about the randomness of the occurrence). And 1 in 100 is not really tenable as a failure prediction given the numbers of iPhones out there.

Even if you allow one in a hundred chance of upgrade going wrong, you then need to factor in three lots of probabilities for taking a backup and each time the backup gets corrupted which I would argue must be higher than one in a hundred. But again even allowing one in a hundred for corruption, you are still at the one in a thousand billion chance (100^6) that what the OP posted is likely to happen.

Upgrade fails x Backup corrupt x Upgrade fails x Backup corrupt x Upgrade fails x Backup corrupt

Someone will have another way to slice that no doubt, but those odds are probably low anyway. The chances are that something about the specific approach the OP was taking was wrong rather than just bad luck. Unfortunate but it does mean it would probably make sense to get some advice when a method keeps stuffing the iPhone and without some extra evidence does rather undermine the idea that the OP statement is a reason not to use Apple products.

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Silver badge

Re: Oh yeah .....

Even if the backup works when you restore from it, you don't get a return to what you had.

I had to restore my iPad after an iTunes update borked it good and proper. Afterward I was faced with umptytump app reloads from the appstore except that a couple I used a lot were just gone. How is this possible if a proper backup was taken? You got me. Don't do it without fat pipe WiFi is my only piece of wisdom.

Then the iTunes wouldn't sync properly. Turns out there's an undocumented hard limit on the number of music files that can be synced in one operation. Dunno what the number is, but I had to break my reload into lots of a thousand. Would have been very helpful to have been able to read some sort of log, but Apple apparently eschews these on the grounds that if it just works you don't need 'em. Oops.

And boy are the Appleteenies defensive about that. The forums I found were full of frustrated people asking about logs and lectures to same about having a better attitude. I kept well out of it, since we were obviously in the arena of faith-based computing and had been declared apostate and heretic.

And when I found the answer to the problem and posted it on the top Google hit for the most obvious search term, I got ambushed by an Appleteenie who felt that because the forum had been dormant for a few years my post was inappropriate. He backed down when I explained that Google sent anyone there asking in basic terms WTF was going on, but sweet Azathoth's Nebular Nodes what do these people do for a living if they have time to squat on "dead" forums?

What was the question?

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Re: Oh yeah .....

I see what you did there, Nobby would be proud.

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App Store still thinks it's in beta

Tried to leave a review of an app on the new App Store and got an error message saying I could not leave reviews on a pre-release version of iOS. Oops.

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Anonymous Coward

"Don't update to iOS 11 – you really don't need to. Just let the hype wave roll over you, it's not worth it."

Just so we are clear, are you suggesting that an Apple owner do the one thing they just can't do?

That's like putting a fox in a hen house and saying don't eat the chickens.

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Anonymous Coward

Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Installed fine on all my devices (iPhone 7, iPad Air 2, Apple TV 4th Gen, Apple Watch S2).

Seems a bit snappier too in most operations but so far nothing major stands out.

New iPad keyboard and dock are nice and new Siri voice sounds more natural.

Only had 2 32bit apps that no longer work (as only 64 bit apps supported now),deleted and replaced with something very similar (1 app haven't used for years)

Worth an upgrade but dont expect anything too radical, a lot of under the hood stuff.

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Bronze badge
Mushroom

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

@AC - "Worth an upgrade but dont expect anything too radical, a lot of under the hood stuff."

Are you sure, just checked for the update and it says "IOS 11 brings hundreds of new features to iPhone and iPads" I mean, if Apple says it's true, it must be...

But I won't be upgrading anytime soon, I'll wait for the 11.0.7 or maybe 11.1.0 to be released first.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

a lot of under the hood stuff.

That's what they want you to believe, and you do. Apple owners, they're just sooo obliging. Can I interest you in the top deals network operators are offering on an iPhone X, in the range of £80-90 per month? It's a bargain. And you want it, you know you do.

“They were once men. Then Jobs the deceiver gave to them iPhones of great shine. Blinded by their greed, they took them without question, one by one falling into darkness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Fanbois, Phonewraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the iPhone, drawn to the power of Cupertino.”

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Are you happy that you lost 20% storage and 20% of your RAM? As that is the additional overhead of forcing 64bit apps that don't need it...

As usual, delusional Apple fanboys just blindly defend every apple move without actually engaging brain to allow free independent thoughts.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

As a long-time Android and Windows phone user, now trying iOS for the first time, that's a limitation I can live with no problem.

The thinking that's gone into integrating hardware and software is way more than at Goggle and Microshit who merely want to slurp your data and generally annoy the hell out of you.

Apple are far from perfect and their fanboys are annoying turds, but they do produce a pretty decent product.

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Silver badge
Trollface

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Apple are far from perfect and their fanboys are annoying turds

Errm, all due respect and all that, but from the rest of your post its rather looking like you're now one of them fanbois.....

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Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

This gets the stupid comment award... ^^^

So, we are we now supposed to believe that the fact most Android phones never get the latest update is a "feature"?

Thanks. But when I buy a device I expect many years of upgrades for the OS.

It's the opinion is pretty universal that iOS 11 runs faster, so it's probably worth deleting a small video clip that I didn't need anyway to get it.

To the article author:

How is Apples fault some apps creators don't update their apps, even when they have had years of warnings? Do it make sense to wait? No. Those app creators aren't ever going to update their apps anyways.

FYI: I use an IPad, but have an Android phone. So sorry, no fanboy here.

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Silver badge

Forcing 64 bit only SAVES storage and RAM

Only a clueless troll thinks that iOS 11 costs 20% of storage and RAM. It actually requires less than iOS 10, because Apple left out all the 32 bit libraries. Previously Apple (and Android still does) have had to include both 32 bit and 64 bit libraries, which obviously doubles the storage requirement for those libraries. More importantly, when both 32 bit and 64 bit apps are loaded at the same time, both 32 bit and 64 bit versions of all the common libraries are present in RAM, doubling the RAM requirement for those libraries.

That's the reason Apple decided to cut ties with apps that haven't been updated for several years and are still 32 bit only. It also allowed them to reduce design/validation time for the A11, since its CPU cores are 64 bit only. Sure, they could have supported 32 bit apps via software emulation if they had really wanted to (after all they emulated PowerPC on x86 when they migrated the Mac, which is an order of magnitude more difficult) but they deliberately chose to drop 32 bit support to avoid needlessly wasting RAM and storage keeping dual copies of the same library.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Apple slurp is EXACTLY the same as Google and Microsoft slurp. You might to spend a little time reading the privacy policies from all 3 and see there is no difference whatsoever.

If you think buying apple stops them selling your anonymised data, you are sorely mistaken, they also do this.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Forcing 64 bit only SAVES storage and RAM

Not how it works, you have been hoodwinked.

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Silver badge

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Well what do you know! I had upgraded but not thought of checking storage, but looks like I have a bit more space, not much - maybe a lossless album worth of space.

And I notice there is the automatic offload for unused apps that will save even more space.

Everything else seems just the same, maybe rearranged the UI and changed icons but I really don't care about all that it does the same stuff.

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Silver badge

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Me too. Then again iOS always seems faster on initial update, it is later on Apple load so much crap into it that it starts to slow down ... and then it's time for another update.

By the way, Addison Lee might want to update their iOS app to 64 bit.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Weird, as I had yet to update, so I checked before and after, and LOST over 700Mb of space. Not happy, as I don't have alot of apps installed, and going forward, I'm not happy that apps use more space than they used to.

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Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

Have an upvote just for this:

“They were once men. Then Jobs the deceiver gave to them iPhones of great shine. Blinded by their greed, they took them without question, one by one falling into darkness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Fanbois, Phonewraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the iPhone, drawn to the power of Cupertino.”

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Silver badge

Re: Forcing 64 bit only SAVES storage and RAM

Previously Apple (and Android still does) have had to include both 32 bit and 64 bit libraries

Nah, Android comes in 32-bit and 64-bit flavours and most apps have their bytecode jitted to native.

That said, you're right that the 64-bit / 32-bit issue is generally misunderstood. Practically apart from drivers it shouldn't make much of a difference.

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Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

“They were once men. Then Jobs the deceiver gave to them iPhones of great shine. Blinded by their greed, they took them without question, one by one falling into darkness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Fanbois, Phonewraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the iPhone, drawn to the power of Cupertino.”

Quick, organise a party to take them to the Land of Korea. Only the NiCAD fires of mount Samsung are strong enough to melt the phones of power. I vote you should be the phone bearer as only a short arsed Android Fanboi can resist the power of The Phone.

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Re: Installed fine on all my devices. Seems a bit snappier too in operation

My nexus 7 received regular updates until Google released the Pixel range. Now I use a samsung tablet and my wife's old samsung note 4 - both are running android 7 - thanks to regular updates from Samsung.

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Holmes

"iOS 11 will provide you with a few minutes of small talk"

"So, I downloaded the new ios 11"

- "Wow, that's hot"

"You're hot"

- "Tee-hee-hee - I know!!"

"See? Animated poop emojis"

- "OMG"

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Bronze badge

Re: "iOS 11 will provide you with a few minutes of small talk"

Don't forget the talking unicorn.

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Updated with no drama.

I had updated to iOS 11 on my 7plus. Two old, unused apps were a casualty, but to no bother. The 'files' app was a let down. I hoped for much more local or home network functionality than it offered, but it's Apple so I'm not surprised. I'm not going to bother asking about flac. Aside from communication apps like Phone, Messages, and Facetime, I have no push notifications engaged, so battery life seems the same - I didn't guzzle power before, and it isn't guzzling now. Aside from a couple of new icons, it pretty much feels like iOS 10. Meh.

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Re: Updated with no drama.

It supports FLAC.

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Re: Updated with no drama.

They also support OPUS !

finally we get WebRTC without the annoying plugin's or app's !

(Conference calls don't have to require silly app's and simply connect with good adaptive rate sound encoding)

would be nice if they had a API for a native SIP client like Android provides since they already have the library support for LTE... but thats wishing

http://john.jones.name

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Silver badge

Re: Updated with no drama.

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2017/09/14/iphone-x-hardware-flac-codec/

From the above article: The 7, 8 and X models apparently have hardware FLAC decoding. The ability to play FLAC on other models by software appears to be limited by Apple to save battery life.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Updated with no drama.

It supports FLAC.

WoooooHHOOOOOOOOO! Are you telling me that something built into Android 3.1 back in 2011 has just been announced as one of the many advances of IOS 11? My, they must have been busy at Cupertino.

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Silver badge

It takes too long

Phhhh... backups? Why bother, what could possibly go wrong?

Oh....

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Re: It takes too long

"I think that the minute that you have a backup plan, you've admitted that you're not going to succeed."

--Elizabeth Holmes

I am updating because of sheer boredom.

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Silver badge

Simple Safety tricks

Why don't people just copy their apps and data to the SD card, then if the upgrade screws up you can easily reset by popping the battery out..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Simple Safety tricks

Post of the decade!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Simple Safety tricks

Because Windows Mobile phones are no longer available?

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Silver badge

Re: Simple Safety tricks

>Why don't people just copy their apps and data to the SD card

Because not everyone has forked out the £29 for the SD card reader and for some strange reason expect iCloud Backup to work.

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Re: Simple Safety tricks

@roland6

the irony is weak with this one. I-Phones have neither SD card support nor removable batteries…

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Re: Simple Safety tricks

iPhones have SD card support for the photos app only.

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Questionable advice

OS updates usually contain security fixes. It's very reasonable to delay a major version update until the bugs are sorted out, but to delay indefinitely is not good advice (the inability to revert to a previous release is obnoxious).

The article also leaves out my favorite new features: Safari will no longer support "autoplay" videos - they must be started manually, and screws up cross-site tracking cookies enough to make advertisers throw an absolute conniption fit (contrast with the Google / Android approach of "we'll kinda sorta maybe fiddle with autoplay a little bit as long as it doesn't interfere with ad revenue, and you'd better believe we'll still track you").

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Questionable advice

Why would El Reg leave out something as fundamental as that?!

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Silver badge

Re: Questionable advice

Because they want to be the voice of negativity when all the other tech press will be writing puff pieces about "Five major things iOS 11 brings" or "15 hidden tips and tricks you didn't know iOS 11 could do".

They'd do the same when an Android upgrade is released, but the minority who will ever even get to install it on their phone have to wait months for it to become available to them so there is never a time like this where hundreds of millions of Android phones will be upgraded within a few weeks of each other.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Questionable advice

"but the minority who will ever even get to install it on their phone have to wait months for it to become available”

You are clearly too dumb to understand consumer choice. If you want apple like update cycles, you buy a nexus or pixel, or android one. If you don't care and just want something you don't care about dropping and don't care about updates, just buy a £100 android phone each year. Both options are infinitely better than buying Apple....

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Silver badge

Re: Questionable advice

I've got a Nexus 5, it feels fast and snappy and runs anything I've had cause to throw at it. Google stopped supporting it earlier this year, 3.5 years after its release.

Even Google's Nexus and Pixel phones are sourced from a range of OEMs and contain components from a range of ODMs, and until Oreo the nature of Android was such that creating updates for specific phones was a headache.

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