back to article Linux 4.14 'getting very core new functionality' says Linus Torvalds

Linus Torvalds has unsentimentally loosed release candidate one of Linux 4.14 a day before the 26th anniversary of the Linux-0.01 release, and told penguinistas to expect a few big changes this time around. “This has been an 'interesting' merge window,” Torvalds wrote on the Linux Kernel Mailing List. “It's not actually all …

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    1. kryptylomese

      Re: Windows vs. Linux Tools Equivalents

      "iftop" is a bit like a GUI for netstat

      Linux gives you a lot of choices on how you can do things including with firewalls - Firewalld and iptables ("iptables-persistent" on debian based installations) are the two main ones bundled with modern distros. iptables is very powerful and you can even make it action an even based on a particular series of packets that it receives.

      However, there may well be a fully integrated GUI app for mint (that will work on other Linux's too) and as previously suggested, a forum may point you in the right direction and you could also try googling.

      1. JakeMS
        Linux

        Re: Windows vs. Linux Tools Equivalents

        For #1:

        I always use Shorewall - it's quick and simple to configure (using good old fashioned /etc config files!) and does its job well. It still uses iptables/ip6tables as it merely configures it based on how you configure shorewall. It means my server firewalls are usually configured and ready to go within about 5 minutes (I can configure iptables manually, but ain't nobody got time for that).

        Put bluntly, it makes iptables/ip6tables a lot faster and quicker to use. You can configure full port forwarding, blacklisting, firewall port states, input/output control etc etc etc.

        Plus, fully documented on their website:

        http://www.shorewall.net/

        Lastly, it's included by default on pretty much any distro (Even RHEL/CentOS using EPEL repo)

        Q #2

        I usually use atop and iftop for that. Pretty much covers all performance monitoring needs combined with logwatch and other system logging tools you can be sure of what your computer is doing at all times.

  2. James Loughner

    You should ask on a Mint forum

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Updraft102

        Re: 'You should ask on a Mint forum'

        The official site, linuxmint.com, has a forum that is generally one of the more friendly Linux places on the web. I wish I could answer myself right off the top of my head, but I know I've seen people write about a Linux firewall that offers the kind of functionality you want.

        1. Semtex451
          Coat

          Re: 'You should ask on a Mint forum'

          Any minute now someone will say something about Hitler.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'You should ask on a Mint forum'

            I think the problem with forums is thus,

            You get some people that when someone posts a question and the solution is the first result in a search engine albeit with some words changed around they get pissy, some people also get pissy when they ask someone to try or do something (get the logs) and they don't.

            What this causes when repeated over and over again you get forum users that become generally pissy regardless of whether the post falls into the two above categories. There is also the "You should f*cking know that" syndrome that some suffer from.

            The above can also be any forums though I must say I have come across it a little more on Linux forums.

            I've never done it but I've seen it on plenty of occasions, I can count on two hands the number of times I've had to post for help and that's not because I'm clever it's because I'm a dipshit and won't give up till I work something out.

          2. dmacleo

            Re: 'You should ask on a Mint forum'

            Any minute now someone will say something about Hitler.

            *********************************************************************

            hitler liked mints...

            1. Semtex451

              Re: 'You should ask on a Mint forum'

              Yes the Mint with the ssecurity hole

      2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

        The answer was perfect. I tested it with a web search for 'Mint forum'. The first link on the results was to forums.linuxmint.com - as recommended by Updraft102. Asking in the right forum will give you access to people with appropriate specialist knowledge and put a useful answer where other people will find it.

        Decide for yourself who you want to be: the person who bursts into tears if people do not hold his hand and lead him every step of the way, or the person who demonstrates that he will be able to make his own way once pointed in the right direction.

        If you do not like the answer ask the right question.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

          Mr. Kroes is absolutely correct. However, I'm feeling charitable this evening.

          https://www.linuxquestions.org/

          Specifically:

          https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-mint-84/

          Half-way in between is also worth perusing:

          https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/

          Note that your questions have been asked and anwered hundreds, if not thousands, of times. The answers are already there if you take the time to read them. But ask away, if you insist ... I suspect you'll find the treatment you recieve here to be fairly mild in comparison.

          1. Geoffrey W
            Happy

            Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

            Ah, sweet memories of my first tentative steps into Linux all those years ago, and the piquant flavours on my tongue of my response to the results of my first innocent queries for assistance; "Well fuck you all, then, you arrogant pompous rude bastards! I'll stick with DOS and windows. Who needs your fucking useless operating system that doesn't fucking work anyway!!!! Fuck Off!!!"

            Ahhh...Happy days.

            1. wallaby

              Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

              "Well fuck you all, then, you arrogant pompous rude bastards! I'll stick with DOS and windows. Who needs your fucking useless operating system that doesn't fucking work anyway!!!! Fuck Off!!!"

              Precisely my experience too, I've asked questions in Windows, Unix and OS/400 forums in the past and never had I had the treatment that seems to be doled out in Linux forums.

              Linux has its place, just a shame some ( I SAID SOME - NOT ALL !!!) of the users are arse wipes.

              1. defiler

                Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

                "just a shame some ( I SAID SOME - NOT ALL !!!) of the users are arse wipes."

                Some of the users are arse wipes everywhere...

                I'm sure we can all agree that there are arseholes on Linux (but when you find an answer on the fora it tends to be very thorough). There are definitely arseholes on Windows (but you learn which sites have great responses). There are arseholes on MacOS, iOS, Android, Solaris, AIX, RiscOS, OS/2, TauOS...

                Wherever you get enough people, you'll find an arse there souring it for everyone. But, again for *all* of these systems, the genuinely encouraging and helpful people always outnumber the arseholes.

                1. jelabarre59

                  Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

                  Some of the users are arse wipes everywhere...

                  Hey, I resemble that remark...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

          "Seriously overusing smileys and color and fonts will make you come off like a giggly teenage girl, which is not generally a good idea unless you are more interested in sex than answers."

          Don't use too many smilies, or you'll come across like a teenage girl more interested in sex than dealing with this horribly-confusing-to-my-female brain computer stuff? I was hoping this FAQ was written decades ago, where such casual gender-based microaggressions were more typical of internet nerds, but seems the last update was as recently as 2014. Poor, Eric Steven Raymond.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

            "Don't use too many smilies, or you'll come across like a teenage girl more interested in sex than dealing with this horribly-confusing-to-my-female brain computer stuff?"

            At which point you will get people falling over to help you, so long as you tell them your bra size and accept a proposal of marriage.

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: 'Hope somebody answers you that way'

            "Don't use too many smilies, or you'll come across like a teenage girl more interested in sex than dealing with this horribly-confusing-to-my-female brain computer stuff?"

            Who isn't more interested in sex than this confusing computer stuff?

            I know I am..

  3. Dave Bell

    I have found Linux to be a good alternative to Windows, but there are times when I get a problem, I start looking for an answer, and I get flooded with ten-year-old answers with fixes for hopelessly obsolete versions of kernel and any other program you care to name.

    And every year is the Year of Linux.

    Multi-OS coding seems to be faltering, Linux versions of software are vanishing or losing formal support. One gripe I have is that people shout, "Use Wine!", and never bother to say anything about which version to use. It does make a difference.

    So, yeah, I can see why people ask. Asking here is pretty pointless, but answering questions seems to be a skill that few have. How many people have actually said anything useful?

    And is this default point-to-forums strategy really any good? I suppose somebody might have written a web page, somewhere, since the turn of the century, with links to the definitions of the jargon they use. Maybe all that matters in that the new kernel has interesting new ways to break my computer.

    I can wait.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

      Well done for actually typing something sensible into a search engine and reading some of the web pages. This puts you half a mile ahead of the majority of lazy whiners complaining that the rest of the world does not research and answer their every question immediately for free. Cobwebs are a problem in software, plumbing and for all I know, flower arranging. Look at the date, and if it is old, do a web search for the most relevant command mentioned in the answer. If that leads you to something that has been abandoned, then the abandonware's home page will often point you to its successor.

      Looking in the right forum means there is a fair chance that someone with a clue either answered the question first, fixed poor answer or updated an answer when better solutions became available. Not pointing people at the right forums just creates even more misleading cobwebs. I am sorry not every answer on the internet has a link to the definition of every piece of jargon used. If only there was some web site you could type the word into that gave you a list of useful links for free...

      Multi-OS coding: Perhaps we are looking at this from different directions. I find it is the Windows versions that are creaking from lack of maintenance. Good news - Microsoft are dusting of their Posix compatibility.

      Which version of Wine? How should I know. I do not have the same version of whatever legacy software you are stuck with. Experiment. I have yet to experience "the wrong version of wine" (probably because the small amount of legacyware I have to deal with is from the last millennium). Perhaps if you asked on the legacyware or Wine forums you would get a better answer.

      "Is this the year of Linux on the desktop?" used to be a headline that showed up every few months. The only reason to read such articles was for a laugh. The author always confirmed Betteridge's law, usually by complaining about the absence of some new Windows feature. The comments would then explain that Linux already had multiple alternative better solutions. The other side of the coin was that Windows only became ready for the desktop after the new feature arrived - despite the fact that PHBs used to be able to use DOS. Everyone has their own year for Linux. It was the year that they started using Linux more often than DOS/W4WG/NT/XP/...

      1. Geoffrey W

        Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

        @ Mr Kroes

        Look, if no one asks idiotic questions on forums for those less idiotic to answer, then there won't be anything for search engines to find, unless AI improves to the point of reading minds and can answer before we type the question, and since my own personal AI has trouble reading my own mind I wont hold my breath waiting for Google to get there any time soon.

        As for the rest of your post TLDR

        1. Teiwaz

          Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

          Look, if no one asks idiotic questions on forums for those less idiotic to answer, then there won't be anything for search engines to find

          Problem is, the more idiotic questions posted, the more idiotic questions and answers you have to sift through to find more detailed, useful answers to more complex questions.

          The net is getting harder to sift through for all the mindless junk as it is.

        2. Charles 9

          Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

          People who know what to look for are in the great minority. Most users see computers as an appliance and will treat is as such. If you're going to keep people on, you have to cater to idiots.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

            "If you're going to keep people on, you have to cater to idiots."

            I enjoy calling people idiots just as much as the next person. But that is just plainly wrong.

            It's probably very sub-optimal to spend large amounts of time managing a privately used OS. Just because we geeks like doing this sort of thing, that hardly makes others idiots.

            1. Charles 9

              Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

              Oh? When the average computer user looks for Windows on the wall and doesn't understand what's a mouse? If that isn't idiocy, that places an extremely low standing on the entire the human race.

              Point is, if you want the Year of Linux, the year when FOSS gets professional endorsement over and above proprietary systems, you're going to need mass adoption, and that means catering to people who, like I said, see the computer more like a TV and less like a car (after all, you don't need a license to use a computer). Otherwise, stop looking for the Year of Linux, declare once and for all that "Linux Is NOT For You" and be content in your geekiness.

              Meanwhile, the rest of the world moves on: will ye, nil ye.

          2. Gerhard Mack

            Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

            "People who know what to look for are in the great minority. Most users see computers as an appliance and will treat is as such. If you're going to keep people on, you have to cater to idiots."

            Those people call the manufacturer for support, not look for it for free on the forums.

            1. Charles 9

              Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

              Now ask. Who's the manufacturer for Linux? Now do you see why everyone's looking around?

              1. Gerhard Mack

                Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

                Whoever they payed. For example, Ubuntu offers desktop support contracts. What I object to, is wanting professional support for free. You don't get that with Windows or OSX, I don't see why they should expect it in Linux. The people in the forums are donating their time for free and are not paid to be there.

                Not all roses in the Microsoft world either. I've had Microsoft support people hang up on me because I asked them why they should be allowed to just terminate a license I paid for without any explanation.

                1. Charles 9

                  Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

                  "Whoever they payed."

                  (ahem, PAID) Most people didn't PAY for Linux. That's kinda the point. And their tech support's probably their relative who's working 8 days a week and only comes to visit once every few months.

                  "What I object to, is wanting professional support for free. You don't get that with Windows or OSX, I don't see why they should expect it in Linux."

                  Last I checked, both had support forums which ARE free AND which do get actual employees responding to request. It's supposed to be good for business since it discourages defections and collateral damage. That's the kind of expectations they're seeking, regardless of the costs of the OS (after all, Google's stuff is free--look at it from the POV of the clueless end user).

                  "The people in the forums are donating their time for free and are not paid to be there."

                  No, they're investing in customer loyalty in order to discourage defections and collateral damage.

                  1. Not That Andrew

                    Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

                    I am waiting with trepidation for a friends laptop at the moment. An acquaintance of his installed Mint Linux on it a year ago and then disappeared. I suspect it hasn't received a single update since then.

                    Some here may consider him an idiot, but he can do stuff with with carpentry that amazes me and he's a fully qualified electrician. He just doesn't have time to baby sit a computer.

                  2. Gerhard Mack

                    Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

                    The reason both do, is that they get money from licensing their respective software. They aren't actually free, it's just that you already paid.

                    Distros like Mint, Debian etc. do not have revenue streams to pay people to sit on the forums and so they are populated by volunteers who have varying levels of skill and temperaments.

                    1. Charles 9

                      Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

                      Just how much of their revenues actually goes to the support team rather than the development team or the marketing team or whatever? And that doesn't explain the commercially-supported distressed or those attached to commercially-supported distros.

                      1. Gerhard Mack

                        Re: Pointing people at the right forum reduces cobwebs

                        Last I checked, my RHEL subscription came with access to a working forum populated by RedHat staff.

    2. TVU Silver badge

      "And every year is the Year of Linux.".

      Surprise! I have news you.

      Either at the end of this month or October, Linux OS market share will overtake that of macOS Sierra and sometime next year, it will almost certainly overtake all versions of macOS combined.

      That growth in market share, particularly since 2014, has had a positive side effect in that more good, proprietary software has been adapted for the Linux platform and that's in addition to the good range of existing free and open source software that's already available for Linux.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Either at the end of this month or October, Linux OS market share will overtake that of macOS Sierra and sometime next year, it will almost certainly overtake all versions of macOS combined."

        Citation please.

        Stats show some way off. But it is getting there.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_laptop_computers

  4. kventin
    Coat

    an AC asks only marginally relevant quetion and the only thing he gets back are civil, even helpful, honest-to-deity answers. five of them. is this what the register has come to?

    must be the monday.

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
      Coat

      Must be before Monday's first coffee...

      1. Geoffrey W

        Yes, but, there was a touch of pomposity and a threat of the violence the poor innocent faces should they venture into a real Linux forum and not utter the correct incantations. Its worse than black magik. Get the spell wrong and the demons you can summon are beyond any belief system this planet can support. Linux is Brutal.

        1. frank ly

          @Geoffrey W

          Your past experiences may have been common when you first tried Linux, whenever that was. In my experience, starting just over four years ago, the Ubuntu and Mint forums are very useful and helpful places to go looking for information. Debian forums can be a bit 'wizardly' but if you have hairy problems then you need hairy wizards.

          1. Geoffrey W

            Re: @Geoffrey W

            I'm glad to hear it. From what I suffered in the past it couldn't get much worse, and I'm quite open about being somewhat prickly in my own responses on occasion, and rather enjoying it too, though witty abuse is preferable to bottom feeder abuse. I came of age in usenet and survived so I don't really mind rude geeks at all. I'm still going to call them rude, though.

            1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

              Re: rude geeks

              There are a couple of good ways to get rudeness from a Linux forum. You can start by asking a question that gets asked every month and when a "read the FAQ" response comes back start whining.

              The other way is to do your research, find your problem is not answered all over the internet, then ask in the right place with evidence you have made an effort and with enough information so that someone can actually help you. If you get a rude response to that, you have not found a geek. You have found someone terrified that their fake geek reputation is about to crumble.

              1. Geoffrey W

                Re: rude geeks

                You're still answering far too seriously to posts where there is perhaps a hint of tongue in the side of someones face.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: rude geeks

                I regret I have but one upvote to give you.

                Over the years I have encountered a few very subtle niggles in various flavours of Linux, and put together very detailed posts asking for advice, only to hear radio silence.

                It is very instructive to trawl forums and look at posts that received no replies. There are some real doozies in there.

            2. RyokuMas
              Meh

              Re: @Geoffrey W

              Geoffrey W - I can identify entirely. I started writing programs back in the 8-bit days, when you could just switch on your machine and start typing. My interest in computers is what I can create - I don't want to spend ages trying trying to cajole a machine to function as the manual says it should.

              This is one of the reasons why I've never really gotten into Linux - admittedly my experiences are a few years out of date now, but whenever I have tried in past to set up a PC to run Linux, I have invariably ended up with a very expensive doorstop. So while I am no great fan of Microsoft - or any giant IT-derived company, for that matter - Windows has always done the trick for me: I buy the PC, I install the tools I need, I fire them up and I'm working.

              Now if there's something I can download onto a USB which I can then boot from and install Linux with only a few mouse clicks/keystrokes, I'll hold my hands up and admit my ignorance of how things are now. But given my income and budget, I'll need some convincing, as the aforementioned expensive doorstops have gone a long way to put me off.

              1. Dave 126 Silver badge

                Re: @Geoffrey W

                > Now if there's something I can download onto a USB which I can then boot from and install Linux with only a few mouse clicks/keystrokes,

                You can!

                Years ago installing or just running a Linux distribution could be a headache, especially if you had weird hardware which many laptops had. These days you can run it on most machines without touching a Command Line Interface (CLI)

                If your computer allows booting from USB (I can't remember when that became common, but some still very usable PCs don't have it, most modern ones do) then just download a 'live CD' image (.ISO) of a popular distribution (commenters above suggest Mint has nice forums, Ubuntu is common too), stick it on a stick, restart your computer, enter BIOS to adjust boot order, and restart again with the USB stick plugged in. If your computer doesn't allow booting from USB, you need to burn the ISO to a CD or DVD using an Image Writer such as imgburn.com.

                Here's the thing: this won't install Linux, Linux will run from the USB stick / CD. Obviously this is slower than running from HDD/SSD, especially CD. Consider it a 'dry run' - if everything is working, you can think about installing. Even if you don't install, you now have the means to boot your computer and use some repair tools should anything ever happen to your Windows installation.

                If you like it, are curious, or like the idea of an alternative desktop environment (either to use as a recovery environment or for some esoteric application) you think about installing it. This will involve partitioning your HDD. Partitioning is pretty civilised these days, but there's no excuse for not backing up beforehand. (In Windows, search for Full Disk Image Backup, and heck, create a Recovery CD whilst your at it - this way you could set fire to your HDD, swap in a new one, restore your Image and your computer is just as it was in every way. )

                One little thing: should you create a Linux partition, install Linux and set up a 'GRUB'(weird names in Linux land, get used to it) boot manager (basically sets up a menu when you boot so you can choose which Operating System to use), don't delete the Linux partition or you won't be able to start Windows (fix is quite straight forward - you remember where you put that Recovery CD, right? )

                A few pointers: you are a User, so the machine won't let you make important system changes unless you become a SuperUser - SUDO. Doing so involves entering your password. If you've used OSX, you'll be kinda familiar with this.

                You install new software with a Package Manager - much like an App Store on Android or iOS.

                Stuff has weird names.

                1. handleoclast

                  Re: @Geoffrey W

                  @Dave 126

                  What you say about dual boot is correct for some distros. For RHEL/CentOS there is more pain involved. They don't ship with the filesystem component needed to access a Windows partition. Once you realize that's the problem, you can add the necessary component. Of course, since the installer couldn't access any files in the Windows partition, it didn't add Windows to the boot menu. Here's where systemfuckingd fucks up again. Instead of being able to edit /etc/grub.conf as you used to in an initd setup (editing very, very carefully) now you have to run obscure commands with unfriendly syntax to rebuild the boot menu. It can be done, it's just no longer as easy as it was a few years ago thanks to systemfuckingd fuckery hitting GRUB and Red fucking Hat deciding not to ship with the component needed to actually read a Windows partition.

                  I can't say I think much of the new, "improved" RHEL 7 installer, either. Lots more ways to fuck up and have to re-install when you realize you forgot to do something. The old one used to walk you through everything step-by-step so you'd remember to set things up the way you wanted. The new one has been Lennarted (if he wasn't actually responsible, one of his acolytes must have been) where it's all a big menu and if you forget to walk through all the options you'll end up with defaults that you didn't want.

                  I think I'll be moving to Devuan next time. Or Mint, if they still offer an initd boot (apparently you can't get rid of every last trace of systemfuckingd but you can at least have initd back, for now).

                2. Ben1892

                  Re: @Geoffrey W

                  Yep, Linux Mint is soooo nearly there, being a Rasbery PI owner I'm familiar with the ISO image writing to USB thingy and creating a bootable installers.

                  So, fresh hard drive in my main rig, kicked the process off and screen went black. I was pretty confident it was a graphic driver issue ( I mean, who'd expect support for an NVIDIA GTX 970 ) but it still took me a while of head scratching to find out the right set of instructions to tell me what to edit on the GRUB boot-loader command (actually, on a hunch, I ended up unplugging my graphics card and using the built in Intel Graphics before that bit, to prove I was on the right track)

                  So all I'm saying is that I'm hoping the graphics driver work done to the new kernel helps with that NVIDIA support, as my experience shows Linux is still is an OS that not accessible to everyone.

                  I did find a nice "15 things to do after installing Linux Mint" video on Youtube that also pointed me in the right direction of maintenance tasks, etc.

                  1. Dave 126 Silver badge

                    Re: @Geoffrey W

                    Oh, I should add that I've only ever been a Linux dabbler. I installed Mint years ago from a mass-produced CD on an old Thinkpad with weird sound hardware - my mate and I did it for the challenge. A few years later I tried the Live CD (Ubuntu) route on a desktop and it was painless.

                    But hey, as a pure Windows user

                    I should note: if you create an Image Backup, you've got nothing to fear. You should create one even if you don't touch Linux. Linux is unlikely to bork (fuck up) your system, but there's no harm in erring on the side of caution.

                    The only real utility I've used Linux for is get_iplayer and to reset a Windows XP password (I forget why I'd forgotten it). I have used a few weird GNU graphics applications under Windows though, because I hadn't the latest Photoshop.

              2. Chemist

                Re: @Geoffrey W

                " I started writing programs back in the 8-bit days"

                Me too. ( SC/MP, 6502, 6809, 68000) . Tried Linux back in ~~1995 and have been using it ever since.

                Try a USB/DVD as suggested or install into Virtualbox if you have a capable enough machine. Another cheap route is to buy a Rasp. Pi - once configured (using a monitor/TV, keyboard and mouse for convenience ) you can run it just from a laptop/desktop with a USB cable to provide power and an ethernet cable to provide connectivity to run a shell, virtual desktop or whatever.

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