back to article Your boss asks you to run the 'cloud project': Ever-changing wish lists, packs of 'ideas'... and 1 deadline

Sure, the future is cloud. But it’s not that simple. The days where you could "just swipe a credit card and go" never existed – not at enterprise scale. Legacy applications and data need to be lifted and shifted, new services instantiated, virtual infrastructures architected, networks bolstered, and security scrutinised, adapted …

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  1. JMiles

    "One peach was that all the data from the cloud had to come back through site to go through box “X” before going back out to the internet at large. Because, security, obvs. "

    No one from the business side is likely to request anything like that. Sounds like Bobs problem was also internal to the IT department.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Are you sure?

      The "it was done this way so must be done" and "but for data protection" overriding lack of understanding does not play into it this time?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Sounds like Bobs problem was also internal to the IT department."

      Been there, encountered almost exactly that scenario. Job preservation among the older members of the IT department. Did not end well.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: "Sounds like Bobs problem was also internal to the IT department."

        "Did not end well."

        For you, or for the job protectionists?

    3. FuzzyWuzzys

      You've obviously not worked in IT for long! That sort of moronic data flow is a lot more common than you think. Financial companies I've been in often take in data in a raw format from some agency, combine it with their own data, pump it back out to a third party for more processing and finally get it back again for reporting.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You don't know how stupid people in the business can be. People who are in charge of "digital" can be that stupid. Like the PR person the mayor of London has bought it would probably request something like this.

      When you have a "head of digital" ignoring all logic it's hard to "Feed it up" regarding any problems and issues. Especially when they idea of "the cloud" is a political one and can't be seen to fail. They'll just see you as "getting in the way" of progress and ignore you.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    Do “more with less,” he was told...

    After which Bob should have replied :

    "F*ck you... then you can go do it without me..."

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh Dear Deity how familiar this sounds.

    I have been fortunate that this has been peripheral to me in the main but how in all the layers of Hell do these people think that just because you can say it in a few words it should be possible to implement in a few actions.

    I am now deeply involved in a project to migrate away from Notes (OK, stop laughing at the back) but despite it being a perfectly good Database platform (mail was always a by-product and even Lotus said that) the Bosses have swallowed the MS PR that Exchange can do everything Notes can. Now they are finding all the 'home-made' applications that will never ever fit onto Exchange, and that there is no one platform that will take all the non-mail stuff that isn't Notes. There is also a 6 month window to move them

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Hmmm that sounds *very* familliar!

      I'm now part of the furniture here and have been using Notes seemingly forever. It's sort-of OK nowadays and to anyone who complains I tell them it's not as bad as it used to be. However, every time we get a new CTO or something then there's always complaints about the email not being Outlook/Exchange etc. So apparently there's budget for a migration now, and the US part of the company is seriously considering doing it (and other bits will have to follow on)...

      The catch, that upper management *never* seem to get is that Notes is more than email! All those handy little apps/databases etc that do stuff like holiday requests and asset tracking amongst others. So yes we can move to Outlook/Exchange, but we'll have to keep Notes around until the apps/databses are migrated or re-written or something. It's a mess waiting to happen and the local Windows guys want nothing to do with it.

      1. thondwe

        Enterprise Architecture

        Any major change like this needs an Enterprise Architect role to provide some nice upper management friendly picture of all the interconnected bits, so they can see there proposed change isn't that easy.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Devil

          Re: Enterprise Architecture

          ...to provide some nice upper management friendly picture of all the interconnected bits...

          Presumably in crayon...

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Enterprise Architecture

            "Presumably in crayon"

            Powerpoint. Crayon for management.

        2. MyffyW Silver badge

          Re: Enterprise Architecture

          You're familiar with the Crayola Continuum, then? Strong is the force in this Architect...

          1. 's water music

            Re: Enterprise Architecture

            You're familiar with the Crayola Continuum, then? Strong is the force in this Architect...

            Ok, you sound like you should know something that I've always wanted to ask. Do you have a technique to stop them from eating the crayons or do you just have to bring toothbrushes and bibs to the design meetings?

      2. colinb

        Standing back and watching a slow motion train crash as long as you are not on the Train is one of the perks of the job. Grab some popcorn.

        Does Notes still have that strange hieroglyphic password box. That was weird, really weird and the incantations did not protect the user from the horrors that lay within.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'utilise our resources to leverage the actioning of the process-driven outcome'

    Have they been to all my staff/performance meetings?

    1. Chris Miller

      Re: 'utilise our resources to leverage the actioning of the process-driven outcome'

      Don't forget to "counterpoint the surrealism of the underlying metaphor".

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cloud to management means

    Devops environment where design no longer matters and you can just order and burn services at the click of a button.

    Data protection and security is also assumed to be inherent as our we "trust" our partners.

    All our services will be in the cloud so obviously they can all talk to each other in a language that they can understand and changing from service x to service y will be seamless.

    Upgrades are no longer an issue and our apps will work forever...

    It's all cheap isn't it? (refer to custom Subway sandwich with extra filling and dressing etc.)

    It will never go down, its always-on isn't it.

    What you can do with the technology (vendor speak) is like saying if I give you a big enough pile of bricks you can build a house (as it does not include cables, pipes, or a kitchen sink and most importantly a kettle) ... and I can replace bits at any time. real life is not like the SIMS.

  6. Big_Boomer Silver badge

    Project creep vs Design creep

    This is not those blokes who look like they molest lampposts in their off hours. Project creep is the inevitable minor changes made to any project once it gets started and any vaguely competent project manager includes a margin for it in the budget/plans. However, nearly every project I have ever been involved in has suffered from Design creep. This is where someone decides it would be a good idea to include XYZ in the project, after it has all been budgeted, planned and started. THIS is the cause of most project failures. What you as a project manager need to do is grow a pair and tell that someone the exact effect of their proposed changes. Most of them then decide that it's not that necessary after all. Of course some businesses have their whole profit margin based on Design creep, mostly those who do large Government projects. If you are involved with one of those, may the Force have mercy on your midichlorians.

    1. Rafael #872397
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: molest lampposts in their off hours

      Damn you!

    2. ElReg!comments!Pierre

      Re: Project creep vs Design creep

      It's not just cloud. In fact it's not just IT. It goes the same in every situation where you have to set up something new and "exciting".

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Project creep vs Design creep

      "Of course some businesses have their whole profit margin based on Design creep, mostly those who do large Government projects. "

      As someone I know once said - "those businesses are fantastic. After their project craters, we get called in to clean up the clusterfuck. The fact that we can usually produce what was actually originally required, quickly and for one-tenth the original contractor's price makes us look like gods!"

  7. Duncan Macdonald
    Unhappy

    Does not even need the cloud

    The ever changing project requirements have been around in computing since well before the internet.

    If your project does not have at least the majority of its requirements defined before the design phase then the result is certain to be a failure - unfortunately there are too many bosses that think the requirements can be changed at any time (including the test phase) without increasing the timescale.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Does not even need the cloud

      In my environment, certain senior individuals keep bleating 'cloud! cloud!' without ever specifying what the requirement actually is that they want to solve. All they can see is that big companies like Amazon and Oracle are now vending 'cloud' solutions, so that MUST be the way to do everything cheaper right?

      The one which is currently getting on my t*ts is 'database in the cloud'. My automatic response is 'why, what do you mean by cloud' ? It does take a while to drill down through that magic buzzword to get to a real requirement, but once you're there only then can you see the many possibilities available for solving the real business problem.

  8. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    "Bob" in this article = "Bombastic Win-10-nic Bob" on this forum?

    Sysadmin burnout is not pretty.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No, the SIGNs were NOT present.

  9. Aaiieeee

    It is only a job

    Bob did the right thing - eventually. As soon as your family/personal life is being impacted in this way, just walk. Its only a job, of which there are many.

    I often see that folk are closed minded and scared about getting another job and its really not that bad. You can help yourself here by regularly saving some of your salary (which is pretty decent, all things considered) so you know you can pay the bills for a few months. Whilst is good to have another job lined up, its not essential; this line of thinking just keeps you in your current crap job.

    The request to "do more with less" is akin to being given the finger which is your queue to say "ok, I willl!" and walk back to your desk, write your resignation letter on company time and start to feel immediately better.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: It is only a job

      "The request to "do more with less" is akin to being given the finger"

      Yup. And if you manage to achieve it, you can expect your budget to be cut as a reward, as you obviously have too much money.

      On the other hand if the project turns into a clusterfuck, money trees magically start bearing fruit to the value of "We don't care how much it costs, just make it work, now"

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The management crisis exploded like a North Korean warhead over Guam. There followed closed-doors meetings between Bob and his managers - no one in a Mega Corp has only one boss, ever). Massive salary increases were offered, additional bodies. Pretty much anything short of hookers and blow.

    Bob admitted off the record he’d played along, just to see just how high they would go. He had no intention of ever staying. After news of Bob’s plans came to light there were other resignations and the cloud project started to stutter. No one wanted to be left holding the parcel when the music stopped."

    1. Manglement shortsightedness.

    2. They were informed of the situation, but they chose to ignore it.

    3. All the money in the world will not get you back into an alienated employee's good books, and some may be willing to burn that particular bridge.

    1. MonkeyCee

      Management advice

      I tutor university students. Because they make various people do management studies as part of their course, I'm often teaching people who are studying STEM rather than business.

      "All the money in the world will not get you back into an alienated employee's good books,"

      Is a pretty good summery of my advice. If you can buy loyalty, do so at all times. When you need it, it will not be for sale.

      Paying someone more, or rescuing them from a death march project, should always produce more value to the company than pissing off a skilled employee. Firing is management failure, quitting indicates a shambles.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Management advice

        "When you need it, it will not be for sale."

        Deserves far more upvotes than I can give. Absolutely spot on. Why is this simple fact so unfamiliar to management? Or is it that they really believe they won't ever need it?

        1. J. Cook Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Management advice

          This plus eleventy BAZILLION.

          Loyalty, very much like respect, is an earned thing, and cannot be bought or easily bribed.

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Management advice

        "Because they make various people do management studies as part of their course, I'm often teaching people who are studying STEM rather than business."

        The advice you're giving clearly isn't being given to actual business managers.

        Or they're sociopaths who are doing it deliberately.

  11. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Not exclusive to cloud

    In some respects, not even exclusive to IT.

    And Bob's solution was the correct one. When it's time to go, go. Punish management by making them crawl with better offers if you can but go anyway.

    1. Dr Dan Holdsworth

      Re: Not exclusive to cloud

      If ever you end up in this situation, don't exact a terrible revenge on your colleagues and management before you go. Resign quietly and politely and maintain a dignified and civil demeanour throughout. This avoids antagonising one's former colleagues and leaves them with an impression of professionalism that may be completely unwarranted, but which means they will be at worst neutrally disposed towards you should you encounter them again.

      Content yourself with the adage that Hell is other people, and that this particular bunch of other people will in your absence have been inflicting pain upon each other to a far greater degree than anything you could ever devise. Their incompetence is your revenge, your sanity is your reward. If you really can't help yourself, warn them about the Easter Egg (the one you did not leave, being far too smart ever to leave one) and let them tear the place up looking for one.

  12. RyszrdG

    plus ça change ...

    I'm sure that there is a medically definable mental condition that kicks in when normally rational people commission anything to do with IT projects. One of the worst is when they have seen a demo of the UI and believe that turning it into a usable, manageable system is obviously child's play. Literally so in a debate I had with an MD of a major corporate about a project, who reckoned his son could knock up the solution in a week. I suggested that the child genius should join the team and show us all how to do the job. Of course it never happened. Or another major corporate customer who demanded significant functional changes to a corporate system that had completed formal acceptance testing the evening before it went live - I had to tell him to fuck off and raise a CR; I heard no more of it and the go-live was a success but it could easily have been a disaster if I had rolled over - and guess what, I would have been the whipping boy. Further evidence, if any was needed, that managing customers and their often unreal expectations is the most critical part of any project.

    1. monty75

      Re: plus ça change ...

      "his son could knock up the solution in a week"

      If I had a pound for every time I heard that one I wouldn't have to be in a job where I hear that one.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: plus ça change ...

      "One of the worst is when they have seen a demo of the UI and believe that turning it into a usable, manageable system is obviously child's play. "

      This thread is bringing back the memories.

      The BMW-driving sunglasses-on-top-of-head new hire who asked what I "did" and then informed me that in his last job he had had a person working for him who could extract any information you liked from a database and present it in a user-friendly webpage in about two and a half minutes, obviously I was useless at my job.

      A year later it was found that the way his web project worked was that a form collected data which was then manually copied into a spreadsheet which was then emailed to the customer.

      If he reads this - unlikely to say the least - I hope he's enjoying whatever he's doing now, and still insulting actual system designers.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: plus ça change ...

      "I'm sure that there is a medically definable mental condition that kicks in when normally rational people commission anything to do with IT projects."

      Careful. You're in danger of equating manglement with normal rational people.

      They aren't. They believe that because they're paid more than you that their understanding of everything must be better than yours and that because they want something it must be possible.

      This underlies the magic of consultants. If the consultant is paid more than management he can take your advice and pass it on, adding price. Manglement equates this with adding value because they know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Because it costs them so much money the advice instantly becomes believable.

    4. 's water music
      Happy

      giving people ideas

      ...a debate I had with an MD of a major corporate about a project, who reckoned his son could knock up the solution in a week. I suggested that the child genius should join the team and show us all how to do the job.

      Well fuck you very much because I am pretty sure I work at that company and that MD took up your challenge afterwards. The project-outcome evidence is just too strong for any other explanation.

    5. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: plus ça change ...

      "I had to tell him to fuck off and raise a CR"

      You can be more tactful than that.

      'That isn't in the original spec. We might be able to do that in a new software version, but there will be significant costs involved for both R&D and deployment. You'll need to raise a CR for it.'

      I know many managers will hear it as "sure we can do it", but you've given the warning and if they press ahead you're justified in demanding more resources.

      On the other hand. "No, fuck off. The release is already locked in" might gets back up but it's short, to the point and within the attention span of most managers.

  13. Daedalus

    Hiow it's done

    Engineers have to learn to think like execs and act like execs:

    1. Lie.

    2. Hype everything to the skies.

    3. Focus on getting promoted outa here.

    4. Leave someone else to pick up the pieces.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: How it's done

      Step 5 is missing

      5) Generate reams of PowerPoint that is full of Management speak that shows the problem but hides it just well enough so that the PHB's can't see it even though it is right in front of their eyes.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Opposite problem can be as bad

    I worked for an outsoured IT department a few years ago and business continuity became a "thing". the Local Authority in question had a committment to year on year council tax cuts so money was in very short supply even before the now editor of the Evening Standard had got his claws into LG budgets.

    The end result was that the business continuity project budget was whittled back so far that ti was to all intents and purposes a couple of test servers that could be repurposed in the lesser of the two computer rooms they had. The whole thing was incredibly frustrating to work on and we all lived in fear of the Council invoking the BC plan which they threatened to do on one occasion!

    AC because I still have friends there.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Opposite problem can be as bad

      "we all lived in fear of the Council invoking the BC plan which they threatened to do on one occasion!"

      Why? Invoking it would be the one thing that would force them to confront reality.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Opposite problem can be as bad

        "Invoking it would be the one thing that would force them to confront reality."

        This reminds me of a Civil Defence exercise many years ago. Partway though the weekend of the exercise, the hilltop radio repeater systems failed.

        The people working in the exercise immediately wanted to cancel until they were fixed and demanded techs be sent out immediately (expensive overtime and a road dangerous to drive at night). the local CD boss had other (far more pragmatic) ideas: "Unforseen complications are part of life. This is now part of the exercise simulation. Not only are the repeaters down but the access road is out so nobody can fix it for 5 days. Work around it. That's what these exercises are for."

        The following Monday I got sent out to fix the repeaters (hit by lightning) and CD had workable contingency plans written up to deal with the problem ever arising in the event of a _real_ emergency.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Sure, the future is cloud :)

    OK, I've given the article a quick once-over and am given to understand that this hypothetical company expects a single IT techie to design and implement a full IT 'cloud' solution all on top of his current duties and implemented in zero time at no extra costs.

    "Bob was more than happy to be selected for the company’s new cloud project"

    Doesn't sound like any techie I've ever come across. Never be the first to do anything and never volunteer for the companies next hot project. But if I was at a particular company and management decided to move to the 'cloud', the first thing I would ask is, has this been successfully done elsewhere at a similar size company and if so can we see it in action?

    "Cloud was eventually implemented at this organisation, but it delivered just a fraction of what had been promised"

    You mean it delivered exactly what the IT department knew it would deliver and a fraction of what management deluded themselves into believing and. Management would know this, if management ever listened to their own IT people instead of some outside consultant.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Two words is all I have to say...

    ..."Infrastructure Free".

    *When you hear bullshit like that, you know all is lost.

    *OK so it went on for more than two words.

  17. HmmmYes

    'Let me expand on that. It’s OK to point the finger at management, but all those Bobs have a part to play in this game. You have to ask yourself: “Is what I am being asked to do reasonable?” “Do I have the time, resources and political will to do what is being asked of me?” and “Can I ingest cloud learning at the required speed to provide what is being sought?”

    If the answer to all these questions is “no”, you’ve got a problem and need to feed that up.

    And here’s where you need a good project manager.'

    Yes ... you're assuming that the Bobs of this world were invited to the meeting, told about the change and asked to contribute. Lots of time these decisions are took and the implementation and rollout is meant to happen like magic - no change and no budget.

    As far as good project manager goes. Is that the person who was laid off a few quarters ago? He was a manager, so we get one one of the general mangers to to their job.

    For their own sae, I wish companies would keep on top of what their required skills bases is and who many (or few) people have those skills.

    I spent a pointless few months sitting in on a mid sized companies 'staff retention/business continuation' meeting. It was new. It had evolved from a flap when they released all the 80% of their software bodies were flying out on the same plane. Oh they shouted! Only x% should ever fly on a single plane! All very well + good for the very unlikely event of the plane crashing. Much self congratulations of averting disaster, readout in the quarterly heads up, plastic plaques handed out the continuity czar.

    Next meeting, I asked 'What is the notice period of the software people?' 1 month they answered.

    'How long does it take to recruit a software person?' 4 months came the answer.

    'Do our products need maintaining and are their penalty clauses?' Yes.

    'Are we paying the top decile in the local market?' 'Err our package is very competitive.' Thats management for No.'

    Next 6 months saw 50% of the software team leave for better paid jobs.

    The economy and job market is driven by supply and demand. There's a lot of demand for software people. Hardly surprising as it really is eating the world. There's little demand for general managers.

  18. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "you need a good project manager"

    Also one that has the clout and the balls to say NO and stick to his guns.

    I've said it before in these very forums, the best project I have ever worked on was one where the PM would send the meeting agenda beforehand, with the points that were to be discussed. Every time, the approved specifications for the project were included.

    At the meetings, anything that was outside the scope of the meeting was pushed to the end of the discussion. Any change request concerning functionality that was not in the specs was penciled in for V1.1 - aka A Later Date. Anything else was seriously questioned before being included and the specs updated.

    The fact that said PM was also head of IT made saying NO a lot easier.

    The project was delivered on scope, on budget and on time.

    Best project of my life.

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