Samsung TV software update comes to mind
Dunno why, but the software update for Samsung TVs comes to my mind...
F-35 firmware patches to be rolled out 'like iPhone updates'
Initial software development for the F-35 fighter jet is coming to an end, while future tweaks to the aircraft’s onboard systems will be rolled out like smartphone app updates, according to reports. “Envision a little window that pops up that says, ‘Your latest [electro-optical distributed aperture system] software update is …
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Friday 8th September 2017 20:13 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Samsung TV software update comes to mind
"I don't see how they might resemble..."
The OP was probably refering to a recent "smart" TV firmware "update" that bricked the machine due to some bug - or more likely outsourced sub continent halfwit copying the wrong file - causing firmware for the wrong machine type to be uploaded. In a TV thats annoying, in an aircraft that could be instantly fatal.
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Saturday 9th September 2017 16:02 GMT Doctor Syntax
Re: Samsung TV software update comes to mind
"otherwise why are we spending $10bn on them?"
Come to that, why is anybody spending money on them when the software still isn't able to support the product's purpose, combat. And come to that why are we spending money on carriers which also aren't ready to do the same because we still don't have the planes to fly from them? Eventually, of course, they are hoped to be ready but we rather hope the Russians don't invade before then.
Yes Prime Minister: "So if the Russians are to invade, we'd prefer them to do it between Mondays and Fridays?"
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Monday 11th September 2017 12:06 GMT jmch
Re: Samsung TV software update comes to mind
"Come to that, why is anybody spending money on them when...."
Because the reason for these programs isn't military it's political. MPs get to send some pork to their local districts and PMs / Presidents / generals can play "look what a big dick I have"
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Sunday 10th September 2017 11:10 GMT Voland's right hand
Re: Samsung TV software update comes to mind
"Instantly fatal"? That's a bit of hyperbole, methinks. I'm pretty sure the software updates won't be delivered in flight,
So instead of being bricked in-flight, it will be bricked before flight. Isn't it wonderful having most (for some countries all) of your air force on the ground for a nice "fish in a barrel" shooting spree exercise.
Add to that the idea that USA has to approve your flight plans as the mission software is integrated with spares and logistics and is located in USA mil cloud.
Even the most desperate Nazi super-weapon attempts towards the end of WW2 did not get anywhere as surreal as that. This just beats the Sur out of Surreal.
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Sunday 10th September 2017 12:39 GMT Mark 110
Re: Samsung TV software update comes to mind
@Voland
I have never worked on a military contract but have done a couple of central government. They are as risk averse as it gets (and I have done a few banking/financial services). I am reliably informed military are a whole new level of paranoia.
I'm not saying they couldn't release a fatal bug to production (we all know thats always possible) but there's a whole different level of rigour involved compared to the commercial world.
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Sunday 10th September 2017 18:10 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Voland's right hand
So instead of being bricked in-flight, it will be bricked before flight. Isn't it wonderful having most (for some countries all) of your air force on the ground for a nice "fish in a barrel" shooting spree exercise.
I can't believe anyone seriously believes there will be updates delivered without any choice, and they'll have to be applied all planes at the same time. A clueless Vice Admiral had the process explained to him by techies in dumbed-down language they thought he could understand, and he interpreted it to mean there will be a pop up that says such and such an update is ready that can happen at any time like it does on an iPhone.
I'll happily bet anyone any amount of money that is NOT going to happen. The plane will have to be in some sort of 'service' mode to download/apply updates, and they'll be delivered via wire (i.e. on ground when being serviced by techs with the pilots nowhere around) not over the air.
If anyone decides to update their entire air force without doing a couple first as a test and making sure the pilots check it out as OK, they deserve to have their country's air force destroyed by someone shooting fish in a barrel.
The US control over the whole process of dealing with the F35s is a real concern, but one that any country that can't afford to develop its own military gear faces, and one that's separate from the software updates. What I'd be worried about if I was another country is that the US could include a super-secret 'kill' switch on the plane they can trigger via satellite, by i.e. inserting a command into the GPS data stream the plane will constantly be receiving. If they're being nice it prevents weapons fire and the plane will refuse to take off again after landing. If they're not being so nice, the plane would simply fall out of the sky and fingers crossed the ejection seat will still operate.
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Monday 11th September 2017 09:42 GMT Steve the Cynic
Re: @Voland's right hand
"and fingers crossed the ejection seat will still operate."
Given that the ejection seat is the one part of the plane that *must*, almost by definition, function when the plane is completely without any sort of power,(1) I'd say this isn't as such a worry, or at least not for the reason implied.
(1) It must work in the circumstance where the engine has stopped and the hydraulics and electrics are busted and it wouldn't matter anyway because the ram-air turbine didn't deploy like it's supposed to, so there's no thrust, no hydraulics, and no electricity either. You pull the handle, the rockets fire mechanicomechanically, and the canopy goes bye-bye.(2)
(2) In a pinch, just because the seat fires directly through it, but in most planes it is ejected or shattered by explosive means.
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Sunday 10th September 2017 09:36 GMT PNGuinn
Or more to the point ...
"I see you're about to bomb the sh*t out of country x. Uncle Sam / $ rouge state sponsored leet hackorz doesn't want you to do that ..."
OR
Over the radio in a combat zone ...
"Hello, this is Ferdinand from microsoft, there is a problem with the computer in your F-35 ...."
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Friday 8th September 2017 15:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Call me stupid and old fashioned but why on earth would you need to update a fighter jets firmware incrementally?
Surely you would get it right, apply it, go away and improve it, test it then apply it.
The only reason for incremental updates is if the software isn't ready, that's a scary thought, though technically not as worrying as over the air updates and security.
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Friday 8th September 2017 16:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: surely????
It sounds like it and it is incremental to a degree but the way they are doing it sounds some crappy android app that updates every week for a text field fix or because they forgot something in the previous version.
Like I said, get it right, test it, apply it. None of this version 3F/3i/3J/3k rubbish, have fixed versions 3/4/5/6, it's a fighter jet for the love of dog.
I don't even want to get started on data corruption because over the air doesn't fill me with confidence even if you spend the time putting all the obvious checks in place before applying it then after it's applied.
As this is America do you have to get the pro version or will it have ads?
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Saturday 9th September 2017 00:38 GMT thames
They're adding feature updates to support things like new weapons that various customers want to use. Some of those include new weapons that did not exist when the plane was being designed.
Some of it is also feature updates to enable features that were left "for later" because the software was so far behind.
Some of it is updates to deal with problems that were discovered during flight testing. Those include hardware problems (bugs) by the way, not just software bugs.
The plane is technically still under development. The customers (US and UK now) are now flying early models around and reporting back problems to be fixed. Actual normal full production doesn't start for a few years yet.
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Saturday 9th September 2017 01:03 GMT eldakka
The plane is technically still under development. The customers (US and UK now) are now flying early models around and reporting back problems to be fixed.
I've paid $30 or $40 for early access of a steam game, basically being an alpha or beta tester. Then I get the full game on release.
But paying billions (or tens of billions) of dollars for early access alpha testing? And having to pay for upgrades (in unavailable downtime if not extra money for specific upgrades) - fuck me.
Wonder what the kickbacks were for that particular agreement?
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Saturday 9th September 2017 11:36 GMT 40k slimez
Call me old fashioned, but surely one of the prime requisites for a "jet fighter" would be that it can actually fight!
"Yes, we said we'll make it Combat Enabled in the next version... North Korea are doing what? Can't they wait a few weeks.... Open Beta isn't even planned yet and TBH the fire control system is just stubs atm...."
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Saturday 9th September 2017 13:17 GMT handleoclast
Incremental updates
Call me stupid and old fashioned but why on earth would you need to update a fighter jets firmware incrementally?
The whole point of fly-by-wire systems is that they allow aircraft to be designed which are aerodynamically unstable. An aerodynamically unstable aircraft, if you can control it (unaided humans can't, computers can), is more agile.
Nothing could be more appropriate for an agile aircraft than agile development and updates. Devops with a vengeance.
And, like agile/devops, fuck quality and reliability. "Minor issues" will be fixed in the next release, in 30 minutes. The fact that your aircraft crashed before the new update just means you're no longer around to complain about the old release not working properly.
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Friday 8th September 2017 21:59 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Versioning scheme
"Hmm... If they're going from 3i to 3F it seems to imply that they didn't anticipate needing more than 26 interim versions between each major release."
I thought it implied they tried 3j to 3z, then wrapped around to 3A and now are reaching 3F. I guess all those interim updates didn't quite work and were skipped over.
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Saturday 9th September 2017 16:08 GMT Doctor Syntax
Re: Versioning scheme
"If they're going from 3i to 3F it seems to imply that they didn't anticipate needing more than 26 interim versions between each major release."
i is interim and F is Final? Although it looks as if there's going to be an interim final. Will this be followed by a Nearly Final, and Almost There Final and a Real Soon Now Final?
Biting the hand that feeds IT
