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Dude who claimed he invented email is told by judge: It's safe to say you didn't invent email

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Just imagine the next case ...

Judge : It's safe to say you didn't invent e-mail.

Plaintiff : What makes you so sure?

Judge : You're only 17 years old now.

Presumably in the case at point, the guy had legal representatives acting (supposedly) for him?

Isn't it about time that they themselves suffered greatly, significantly, when losing such frivolous cases? Like say a 12 month ban on bringing any more cases.

It just may cut down on the caseload.

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Re: Just imagine the next case ...

It looks like he is appealing, so I suppose his lawyer has a holiday home to pay off, or expensive private school tuition to pay.

I think that's what is happening, but to be honest I dozed off reading the last sentence where the lawyer explained about false something and constitution something and whatever.

The guy deserves what he gets.

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Stop

Re: Just imagine the next case ...

"Like say a 12 month ban on bringing any more cases."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation

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Stop

Re: Just imagine the next case ...

I wouldn't consider the case vexatious or frivolous. The judge agreed that he had invented an email system, just that it wasn't the first, and not necessarily what anyone else would consider email we have today.

However, if the judge had said what we have now derived from that, he was first, then the statements against him would have been false, would have been libellous, would not have received first amendment protection, and he would have been entitled to damages.

There was legitimate disagreement and the court settled that. Exactly how it's meant to work.

If the court had considered it vexatious or frivolous they would have said so. Just because a ruling goes the way one always thought it should doesn't make it vexatious or frivolous.

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Re: Just imagine the next case ...

@Jason Bloomberg " invented an email system" - All the judge agreed was that he wrote an email system not the he invented email. The judge noted that assigning appropriate credit to all who deserve it for email is not a trivial task. In essence, this issue in this case of invention is sufficiently murky that reasonable people often will often give credit to others for their more fundamental work on email systems. This clown refused to acknowledge that was significant prior art (including what many consider functioning email systems as we currently understand email) prior to his program. Techdirt's commentary noted there was significant prior art and they stated their belief his claims were BS as he did not invent email only built on what was there.

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Flame

Missed this

Ayyadurai attorney Charles Harder is the same attorney who gained fame and fortune by suing media outlets large and small on behalf of Hulk Hogan, Melania Trump and other clients unhappy with their press clippings. He's the attorney who sued Gawker Media out of business.

As part of the financial settlements that accompanied the $135 million sale of Gawker Media’s assets to Univision in August 2016, Ayyadurai received $750,000 to drop his lawsuit against Gawker.

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Re: Just imagine the next case ...

Jason Bloomberg, you're missing the point that even if it was the first email program, doesn't mean that it is the most commonly adopted version of those that are currently available, around the world.

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Unhappy

TL:DR Bosch hammer drill* throws sueball when website calls BS on his claim of inventing email

I think that's about the size of it.

Where I went to college writing email or chat programs was something of a competitive sport.

Is his name on the relevant IETF RFC's?

Thought not.

* A colossal tool

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Headmaster

"Invented" vs "Produced"

I see this bullshit all the time, mostly from Apple (or rather its starry-eyed fanbois, since I can't ever remember any statement from Apple claiming to have actually invented anything, although they are very fond of the word "innovate", which is supposedly a different concept - improving rather than creating).

And here it is again, this time some guy who merely "wrote a program", but who thinks that somehow qualifies as an "invention", because it's (correctly) protected by ... copyright, which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with invention.

Executive summary: Invention is the method, production is one implementation of that method.

Neither is ever entirely unique, but is merely the accretive result of existing works, which is then temporarily afforded state protection for the purpose of "promot[ing] the progress of science and useful arts".

This is a privilege to induce participation (or more bluntly, a bribe), not any sort of moral entitlement (specifically because your work is merely the result of "standing on the shoulders of giants"), hence the temporary status.

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Senator?

Massachusetts?

What?

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His claims...

to having a massive ego were never in doubt.

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CANDIDATE for senator.

Anyone can run for the office. We're somewhat picky about who we elect to the office.

// wish I could say the same for the rest of our country

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Trollface

Speaking for the rest of the country, we are also somewhat picky about who you guys elect.

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After Shiva got roundly criticized by any sane person for his ridiculous claim about inventing email, and after his brief marriage to former TV star Fran Drescher, he became a Trump acolyte and decided to run for Senate against Elizabeth Warren. He has no chance, but it gives him an opportunity to have a big campaign bus with his name on it parked in front of his Cambridge office, to go on right-wing media around the country, to collect campaign donations from banksters and others who don't like consumer advocate Warren, and to keep the unspent campaign money when he loses (Massachusetts is pretty lenient in that regard).

In other words, keep grifting.

I do note, however, that US libel law makes it harder to sue for libel if you're a "public figure". If you are running for high office, you probably have become a public figure. I am aware of a man whose ex-wife's divorce lawyer wrote and self-published a *hilarious* philippic against him when he put his name on the New Hampshire primary ballot for Vice President (which takes negligible effort). This made him a public figure and he could then only sue if the book contained "actual malice" (knowledge that it was false). Hence he opened himself to the book and could do nothing about it.

If Shiva wants to sue anyone who calls him out now, he has to pass a higher hurdle than before.

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In other words, nobody voted for Trump, so he's just a figment of your imagination. Not my problem, as I don't live anywhere within the boundaries of the USA, I hope.

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Anonymous Coward

"We're somewhat picky about who we elect to the office."

I agree, comrade.

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Only the best will do

Oh, please, Massachutes, don't vote him into office. We don't need bad liars in government. We want only the very best.

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Re: Only the best will do

They have Fauxahontas as a Senator, why would they not elect him. He has a prime requirement for them: he is a liar.

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Re: Only the best will do

Your current POTUS is a very strong argument against that you want only the best liars. He is a very skilled demagogue, but a shitty liar in that his lies are easily spotted. Of course, if the quality of a liar is decided on the quantity of lies, he is a splendid liar indeed.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Only the best will do

Trump's got a fantastic tell-tale for lying (besides his lips moving, yadda-yadda), he invariably accompanies his most egregious lies with a resounding "believe me"!

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Re: Only the best will do

When I hear any politician say "the fact is..." I take it as read that whatever follows is a complete "notfact".

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Trump's got a fantastic tell-tale

The problem isn't that OPOTUS lies, it is that he believes everything he's told by his go-to advisors without fact-checking.

When the outright lies are mixed in with falsehoods he genuinely believes in and dubious stuff he thinks isn't important enough to get right first time, no-one can trust a single thing he says.

Hence "his lips are moving".

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Re: Only the best will do

Quite right. I know at least one guy that won the popular vote only to lose the electoral college, largely IMHO, because he was a terrible liar. This despite a successful career as US Senator, author, environmentalist, and the guy who invented the Internet!

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Re: Only the best will do

I don't think that Gore ever claimed to have invented the Internet, he said that he made the Internet possible by promoting the central communications backbone in the US - prior to that, it was a major effort just to find an account that I could connect my 110 baud modem to and receive anything back except #$^TRY&&#!#

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GBE

Re: Only the best will do

"I don't think that Gore ever claimed to have invented the Internet,"

You're right, he never claimed that. He said something about how he was proud to have been instrumental in passing the bill that provided funding that helped "create" the internet. He was referring to the 1991 High-Performance Computing and Communications Act (generally known as the Gore bill according to sources such as the Washington Post). Everybody who wasn't trying deliberately to misread the quote in order to rev up know-nothing Fox News viewers knew that's what he was talking about.

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Re: Trump's got a fantastic tell-tale

The fact that you believe that trump believes what he says shows me how common it is for people of the Left persuasion to believe almost anything that matches their innate bigotry.

Trump is a chain jerker.

Elsewhere he's more than that.

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Re: Re: Only the best will do

"and the guy who invented the Internet!". Now, now, no pork pies (lies). The original project that started what is now known as the Internet was invented by the US Department of Defense, with the establishment of the DARPA network, over 50 years ago. It included places like the Goddard Space Center, and many of the then most powerful known computers in the world.

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Re: Only the best will do

"We don't need bad liars in government. We want only the very best."

Such as Al Gore, the inventor of the Internet.

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Re: Only the best will do

> Such as Al Gore, the inventor of the Internet.

Debunked above....Al Gore didn't 'invent' the Internet, he was instrumental in *financing* it. I thought we'd passed that stage of deliberately misreading soundbites.

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Re: Only the best will do

I take that to mean that Massachusetts only needs ~good or better~ liars in government.

Am I correct in my interpretation?

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Where Do I Find These Lawyers

I described, in 33 handwritten pages of notes, a scheme whereby documents, pictures and executable scripts could be interlinked on multiple networked computers. I wrote the code and demonstrated a beta version of it to colleagues. This was back in 1985. I am pretty sure I invented the web. I need to sue someone. I keep hearing about Tim Berners-Lee. Can I sue him?

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

You kid, but I wrote a website (still have all the code floating around on an old disk somewhere) that transformed closed nit group forum software into a more open and shared experience, allowing direct messaging and self profiles where you can share details of yourself and pictures.

We know a similar thing today as Facebook.

I am not suing Facebook, many people have similar ideas, those that press on with them, preserve and build the monoliths are welcome to the fruits of their labours, whilst me dicking around with a few mates online can disappear into the obscurity where it mostly lived..

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Headmaster

Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

@Sampler - So you invented social networking for lice, when previously they could only network before they hatched? I never realised.

Nit - the egg of a louse or other parasitic insect.

Close-knit - bound together by strong relationships and common interests.

And now a need a shower.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

Bottom of a pond.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

OK, I'll bite...

Don't blame the lawyers - it's this guy and his ego that are the problem.

The thing is, he seems to genuinely believe he is right - and, if instead this was some plucky underdog taking on Outlook, we'd be probably cheering him (and by extension his lawyers) on.

Everyone should be entitled to legal representation to argue for what they believe is right, whether they are accusing or defending. Unfortunately, 'everyone' encompasses a lot of assholes. But that's not the lawyer's fault.

That said, there is something about the total lack of self reflection within the American psyche that makes some of this US lawyer's comments cringe-worthy...

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

A total lack of self reflection is by no means a monopoly of American lawyers, particularly in the music business I have seen a couple of real prizes in the UK and Europe.

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Joke

Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

@d97402

"This was back in 1985. I am pretty sure I invented the web. I need to sue someone."

I think you'll find that neither you or Tim Berners-Lee invented the net, it was British Telecom as they invented the hyperlink

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/06/20/bt_invented_hyperlinks_shock/

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

I’m only kidding about the suing of Tim Berners-Lee. i actually did write the notes out and code the project demo, in my Denver apartment, in 1985. The thing is, like this E-Mail case, lots of people were doing lots of things similar to my distributed, hyperlinked document tree, and my project had nothing to do with development of what we know as the web today.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

Of course I didn’t invent the web. My facetious post was intended to make the point that neither did the complainant in the E-Mail case invent email. My project was interesting but went nowhere and was an interesting college comp-sci project, at best. It is just amazing how far obviously frivolous lawsuits can get in this county.

if we could close down half of the law schools and re-open them as med schools we’d be a lot better off.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

"particularly in the music business I have seen a couple of real prizes in the UK and Europe."

Douglas Adams in fact wrote a book about it.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

"if we could close down half of the law schools and re-open them as med schools we’d be a lot better off."

You want the sorts of people that go to those schools mucking around with your innards instead?!!? *shudder*

I'll pas, thanks.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

> as they invented the hyperlink

But as any fool know, the internet didn't exist until <blink />

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

JamesPond, "I am pretty sure I invented the web", "I think you'll find that neither you or Tim Berners-Lee invented the net". Come on, get your definitions correct. The World Wide Web is not The Internet, it is only one part of the Internet.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

"I am pretty sure I invented the web. I need to sue someone. I keep hearing about Tim Berners-Lee. Can I sue him?"

Yes. Yes you can.

A warning.

It's Sir Berners-Lee now. 'Sir' is a title given to knights. Knights have swords. You have, what, a keyboard? While some claim that the pen is mightier than the sword, this is generally disproved in combat. And a keyboard isn't even as mighty as a pen. So I don't hold out much hope for your chances.

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Re: Where Do I Find These Lawyers

“It's Sir Berners-Lee now. 'Sir' is a title given to knights. Knights have swords. You have, what, a keyboard?”

I have a high-power green laser. Hopefully, Sir Berners-Lee is wearing red sunglasses.

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But making false claims isn't illegal unless it harms someone or people. Or it shouldn't be if it is! We may as well ask the government what is true and false so we can avoid going to jail...

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Calm down dear, you're making a lot of incorrect assumptions in just one short paragraph.

1) Illegal is the wrong word, this was a civil case. Just because it is legal to say something, doesn't mean that you can't be sued. Indeed, in the US there's very little speech that is illegal, but the yanks always seem to be suing each other.

2) He was arguing that Techdirt saying that he did not invent email was in fact harming him (presumably because he uses that claim to drum up business). Deciding if it was in fact harmful or not was one of the things that the court case was about.

3) Generally, if you are sent to jail, it's because the government, in the form of a judge and jury, have decided that it is true that you have committed a crime, and you are sent to jail. If the charges are false, you're not.

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Constantly Lying.

A quick search on Shiva Ayyadurai quickly reveals how scummy his claims for inventing e-mail is. He claims to have invented it in 1978, but the first email client was invented in 1971/1972 by Ray Tomlinson. So what did Shiva invent? Nothing, he just made a program that did which has already done and claimed adding some functionality means he invented it... clear lie.

He also tried to sue Gawker when they called him out as a fraud. There is nothing significant or notable about Shiva Ayyadurai's claims around e-mail other than him suing anybody that calls him out on clearly having not invented email. I'm expecting a call from a lawyer any second now...

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Re: Constantly Lying.

Shiva's program does not even send messages to users on other computers - only between users on the same computer.

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Re: Constantly Lying.

If you repeat something enough times people will start believing you. That's the only think his claim is based on. Even at the time he wrote his program, similar programs were already available. There is no fact behind his claims, just repeated claims. He uses methods commonly used in confidence scams.

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