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Microsoft sets the date for Fall Creators Update

Anonymous Coward

Will this turn out to be

the Creators FAIL update? I really hope MS does more than cursory testing of the release this time.

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Linux

Re: Will this turn out to be

Piss off noddy.

If you are a local and you can't be arsed to login or worse, you worry about karma, then please go away.

Of course MS do testing, well, we do their testing 8) I don't personally, what with me running Arch on my personal systems but I feel your pain. I just happen to have access to quite a few (hundred) MS based systems.

They do QA big style and I'm happy with that.

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Re: Will this turn out to be

This explains a lot about the poor quality of Windows testing.

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Re: Will this turn out to be

I still haven't got the Spring Creators Update.

Not rushing for it though.

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Alien

WTF is a "Fall Creator"?

Is that the formal job title for someone who trips people up?

And WTF has an OS update got to do with "Creators" anyway?

Does this mean that only arty farty types have the privilege of Windows updates now, and we cubicle monkeys, pointy hairs and the rest of the 99% who never create anything are left to rot?

Please, will one of Microsoft's semi-human MVP bots explain this alien syntax, because it doesn't compile on anything I have here?

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Re: Will this turn out to be

I still haven't got the Spring Creators Update.

Not rushing for it though.

My brother's MSWin10 machine in The Catskills has had updates shut off since April because I didn't know when he'd be able to bring it down. I wasn't about to let the update brick the system when it was (at least) a 90-minute drive away and leave him without a system.

I'll probably get to install the Spring update on his machine just about the time the Fall update is ready to be unleashed upon an unsuspecting public.

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Re: Will this turn out to be

"My brother's MSWin10 machine in The Catskills has had updates shut off since April "

Perhaps you need to share how to do that with all the folks here who complain about their Windows PCs rebooting every 10 minutes due to updates.

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Re: Will this turn out to be

I have been testing this and it's been fairly bug free even in early development builds. My system just installed Windows 10 Insider Preview 16281.1000 (rs3_release) today.

imo the original RTM of Windows 10 was a bit shoddy and was rushed out of the door. Everything since has been pretty good.

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Re: Will this turn out to be

"My brother's MSWin10 machine in The Catskills has had updates shut off since April "

Perhaps you need to share how to do that with all the folks here who complain about their Windows PCs rebooting every 10 minutes due to updates.

** Just disable the Windows Update Service

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Promises, promises

promised that this fourth update to Windows 10 would be the best yet.

Does that mean there will be the removal of all the slurping code and the stupid flat phone interface because that is the only way it could be 'the best yet'.

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JLV
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Re: Promises, promises

I'd also be happy if they got their sleep/hibernate crap sorted out.

I mostly use my win10 laptop to host VirtualBoxes, or run databases. My dev is done elsewhere. As a result, it often runs into extended inactivity.

I've pretty much disabled all the sleep/hibernate settings that I could find, as long as it is plugged in. Nevertheless, at random times, for no apparent reason, it decides its sleep entry time is now 3-5 minutes. EventViewer shows the trigger was Idle Time. Once sorted that out with a GPU driver refresh (???) but it came back a bit later.

powercfg -h off, possibly after a reboot, is the only way I've found to kinda get that sorted out. At least until the next time it starts acting up. Doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in the system.

All the stuff about photos, AR, etc...? Fiddling while Rome burns, instead of fixing core stability and security issues (turn off AntiVirus for IE11 to work???), stabilizing/simplifying configuration mechanisms and actually listening to its customers by turning off telemetry and returning menus, at least as optional alternatives to ribbons.

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Linux

Re: Promises, promises

Could I tempt you to another land that involves penguins? It isn't flawless by any means but rather easier to deal with in many ways. For example, how many times have you had to spend quite a lot of time looking for updates to non MS packages? On a Linux based system all packages are in the repositories and get updated alongside the OS.

You may feel that you might be left out in some way due to lack of support or your fav apps are not available.

If it helps, Libreoffice is capable of editing nearly all .doc, .xls etc files. Email: Evolution with evolution-aws) will happily connect to Exchange.

If you do go the way of the penguin then you will also have access to a lot more stuff than you could possibly imagine on a stock MS build.

Go on, have a play.

Cheers

Jon

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Promises, promises

Shiny, Shiny sells stuff. The average Punter who goes into places like PC-World does not care about stability. They want the wonder of a one-off firework display repeated every day.

The current slew of Surface adverts (try watching the Vuelta highlights on ITV-4) are full of shiny, glitzy nothingness. The same set is used for at least two different ads just with a different designer that only a few people will bave heard off doing nothing much with a Surface and Windows 10.

Content free advertising at its best but it will probably sell a few devices but these ads were certainly done on the cheap.

What will happen when the W10 that people see in front of them bears no resemblance to what they have seen on the adverts?

These ads don't show the tiled interface, the ribbon or any of the 1,000,000 and one frustrations that normal people have.

I don't know if it is the cynical grumpy me that I've become after years of having to use Windows but they do seem to be fiddling while Rome burns all around them.

Never mind, it does VR in a way that no one else can so who cares eh?

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Re: Promises, promises

On the contrary, they will remove any possibility of killing the slurp short of disconnecting from the net.

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Re: Promises, promises

My system always goes to sleep during the update installation and has to be powered down and restarted to get it to complete the installation. This is the 4th update? My system says that it's up to date but I haven't seen any changes worth mentioning.

Overall Windows 10 seems OK but if I was that big a fan of having a nanny OS, I'd be using Apple gear.

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Re: Promises, promises

I'd also be happy if they got their sleep/hibernate crap sorted out.

They've a button for that now?

...Wait! Is it really any more convenient than punching lockscreen in panic because the turtle is nosing out the door?

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Re: Promises, promises

"Does that mean there will be the removal of all the slurping code and the stupid flat phone interface because that is the only way it could be 'the best yet'."

"Hey! Don't you worry about that. Take a look at this! Paint 3d! Wow, shiny, isn't it? Isn't that really what you wanted? Shiny shiny shiny! We added the ribbon to the debugger too! Wow!"

MS tells us they have to have this "rapid update" cycle in today's world, yet all it brings is more crap no one asked for and yet another failure to address the core complaints people have had with Windows 10 for more than two years now. MS has to put new "features" into each biannual release to justify having that release and therefore the entire concept of "WaaS," but there simply aren't enough bells and whistles to distract people from the ugly UI, the lack of control people have over their own PCs, the spying, the ads, and everything else they've been telling us we really should not care about.

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Re: Promises, promises

its evolution-ews (not aws) plugin to allow connecting to exchange 2010 and onwards.

use it on a few mint 18.2 boxes here against my exchange 2013 server.

its come a long way over the last few years and while lacking some full outlook features is pretty damned good.

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Re: Promises, promises

"Could I tempt you to another land that involves penguins?"

Hmmmm........,.

put my PCs in the hands of a warring bunch of Penguinistas who do little but rant about Microsoft (esp in a reply to an article where at no point was Linux mentioned) or put my PC's in the hands of a group of people I pay for results and who have so far succeeded in fixing them.

Not to say end up with desktop quality only a minor step of from Minecraft. Penguins are best seen on an iceberg, home PC or in the zoo certainly not on a professional PC.

Nah...... you cant tempt me thanks

Sits back yawning and awaits the rants............... sooooooooooooooooooo tedious.

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Re: Promises, promises

"These ads don't show the tiled interface, the ribbon or any of the 1,000,000 and one frustrations that normal people have."

I work with "normal people" on Win 10 every day. Mostly they don't care about the ribbon. It changed so long ago they are simply all used to it. They don't even notice the start menu as they just use it to launch the programs they want. And the main frustrations are not with the OS but with things like networking and internet connections not working.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Promises, promises

"Could I tempt you to another land that involves penguins?"

Some of us value our time, want to play all the latest games and / or use an Office package that actually works though, so that's not for many of us...

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Anonymous Coward

"I mostly use my win10 laptop to host VirtualBoxes, or run databases. "

Thus, why do you use Win10 at all? You're not using Hyper-V, you're not using it as a desktop OS (which is what it is designed for). Unless you need to run SQL Server (for which anyway Windows Server is a better solution), you're just looking for trouble. Need VirtualBox? Run Linux. Need some database which is not SQL Server? It will run better on Linux.

BTW, the software itself can communicate with power management to react to notifications.

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A new creators update?

Maybe that is why my system is screaming at me to apply the 1703 update.

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WTF?

Re: A new creators update?

Only my oldest and slowest portables have been offered 1703, which I find slightly strange. It appeared to benefit the circa 2008 laptop so I was OK with that. I wonder if the desktops will ever get anything.

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Re: A new creators update?

I'm wondering the same thing.

No creators update here "Good news! The Windows 10 Creators Update is on its way. Want to be one of the first to get it?" has been in my updates dialogue for months now. But it never arrives here.

I wonder if El Reg can ask Microsoft about how many machines are going to be even further out of sync after this update.

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Maxing out the CPU

"The update will allow PC gamers to set the computer to max out the processor for smoother gameplay"

S'funny. I'd always assumed that this was the default unless you were in some sort of power-saving profile. Or do they mean there is now an option to run at 110% and damn the temperature readings...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Maxing out the CPU

You should understand what preemptive multithreadeding/multiprocessing means. When gaming, what matters is how CPU cycles are available for the game itself, and not 'stolen' by other background tasks.

There are a lot of processes that may be put to sleep, or almost, when playing. I have scripts which turn off unneeded services while playing, for example. Windows could use 'hardware profiles' to be run with different configurations when needed (a little known and little used feature)

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Re: Maxing out the CPU

I'm just curious. What proportion of (home) Windows users are Gamers, in the sense of wanting and needing to be able to use every ounce of system resources to play games. Keeping in mind the availability of dedicated devices consoles and the like for game fanatics.

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Re: Maxing out the CPU

Me, for one. I have a compact desktop system built for gaming, or anything else that might stress the laptop unduly. Games from Steam, the occasional other location, never Origin because they do not share their toys and are not lightweight. Haven't had a need to "wring out every last bit of performance", and generally speaking the only problems are the silly "exclusives" and cack-handed console ports.

Upgrade when desired, get the best bang for the buck. Use the same controllers the consoles have, and more besides. Consoles are PCs anyway, just ones built with proprietary form factors just like laptops are and desktops used to be. They just aren't good at much besides gaming.

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JLV
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Re: Maxing out the CPU

Depends on your game type. First person shooters, like Quake or Arma, would really suck with a controller, you need a mouse. Ditto complex menu/interface stuff like Civilization or Total War and most hardcore wargames. Real Time Strategy games like Starcraft mostly need very fast unit/resource placement => mice again.

On the flip side, sword/combat games like Dark Souls live for console controllers and limp with mice. It's really the nature of the game, not just the horsepower it needs.

Macs generally don't get much respect wrt non-casual games. I assume Valve has made life a lot better on Linux (and OSX) for gamers. But Windows still gets a lot of attention from the gamer side.

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Re: Maxing out the CPU

You should understand what preemptive multithreadeding/multiprocessing means. When gaming, what matters is how CPU cycles are available for the game itself, and not 'stolen' by other background tasks.

There are a lot of processes that may be put to sleep, or almost, when playing. I have scripts which turn off unneeded services while playing, for example.

You mean you could run in "Gaming Mode" and it would disable the telemetry slurping, AppStore apps, and the multitude of other cruft MSW10 comes bogged down with?

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LDS
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Re: Maxing out the CPU

Of course it will stop whatever it can but telemetry - actually I believe it has to put to sleep some processes or while gaming telemetry would be overwhelmed... and they don't want to lose a single click. I guess game telemetry could be very valuable...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Maxing out the CPU

"You mean you could run in "Gaming Mode" and it would disable the telemetry slurping, AppStore apps,..."

Doesn't gaming mode do the opposite? Enabled telemetry to get gameplay time, and increase app store's game efficiency?

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Devil

Nah!

Poxy 3d crapola. I want the start menu made usable, adverts and compulsory programmes removed and the bugs sorted, e.g. You still can't use a pair of custom bin icons without editing the registry.*

Not f***ing gimmicks and even more unremovable programmes that no one needs or wants.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*For any user who wants to and doesn't already know - though on this site I assume most of us do;

add ,0 after the icon names in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\CLSID\{645FF040-5081-101B-9F08-00AA002F954E} Note, it's a ,0 ( comma nought ). Usual warnings apply.

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Everything, except what we really want

Let us see if Microsoft finally gives us what we want. Of course, what we want is (1) Complete removal of all tracking; (2) A logical and proper start menu; (3) The option for full Aero support; (4) Permanent banishment of the ribbon and an apology for placing it everywhere; (5) The ability to control when we install updates and which ones to install; (6) The return of a pre-boot F8 so I don't have to wait for 3 unsuccessful boots or hold down shift and restart just to get to a recovery console; (7) and STOP HIDING SYSTEM RESTORE!

In other words, a Windows that knows it is a desktop/laptop OS and isn't about listening to unwise but educated hipster doofuses. An OS that knows we are the customer, not the product being sold.

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Re: Everything, except what we really want

You don't have to use Windows, there is choice.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Everything, except what we really want

You don't have to use Windows, there is choice.

Please go away, you are getting tiresome.

We've heard you the first time around.

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Re: Everything, except what we really want

"You don't have to use Windows, there is choice."

For some values of "you" and some values of "choice" - your assertion doesn't apply to everyone.

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Headmaster

Re: Everything, except what we really want

@VinceH

Yes, his assertion does apply to everyone.

You don't have to use Windows. You could use a Mac, or Android, or Linux, or BSD, or an abacus or absolutely nothing at all. You may not be able to achieve what you want, or you may be able to do what you want but not in the way that you want to do it, but the choice is still there. It doesn't stop being a choice simply because you dislike all but one of the options. Your likes and desires influence which of the options available to you that you choose.

You really do not have to use Windows. Not even at work where the boss insists that you use Windows - you can simply leave a shit in a shoebox on the boss's desk and walk out.

His assertion does indeed apply to everyone. It may not be a choice that many find attractive for some reason or other, but it's a choice.

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Re: Everything, except what we really want

Poor use of argument. Reduction to absurdity. Choice in the sense of realistic, practical, offered choices. Not Hobson's choice,forced choice or suicidal choices.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Everything, except what we really want

Microsoft has already gone full hipster retard since... I dunno, Windows 8's Metro tiles? Also, have you seen the recent update for Skype?

Once upon a time, a Service Pack update for Windows would bring useful features, especially much-needed security features. I remember Win XP RTM was a security nightmare, SP1 brought a basic firewall, SP2 finally worked out most of the kinks.

Now it's "With the Fall Creators Update we are introducing some fun new ways to get creative"... listen, Microsofties, if I want 'fun new ways to get creative' and am dedicated enough, I would use something from Adobe. I do not need half-baked offerings from Microsoft.

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Headmaster

Re: "You don't have to use Windows, there is choice."

Maybe you don't have to use it, but you do have to pay for it anyway, whether you want it or not, as a non-optional component of every new PC.

As ever, in that respect, there is no choice.

There wasn't much choice presented to the victims of Microsoft upgrading Windows by stealth either, and even those Microsoft bothered to warn first were simply presented with a dialogue box that stated, in essence, that they could agree to the upgrade now, or later, but presented no option to decline. Most people assumed, wrongly, that the close button would be interpreted as declining the upgrade.

There also isn't any choice if you are merely one of the cubicle monkeys forced to use whatever your company procurement team have foisted on you, which 99% of the time will be the latest version of Windows.

You also don't have any choice if you are a commercial software developer who absolutely requires a copy of whatever garbage Microsoft has foisted on the great unwashed masses, or face destitution pursuing an alternative career in janitorial services.

The false "choice" presented by Microsoft apologists is highly disingenuous. It's like one prison boss telling Cool Hand Luke to Dig a hole, and the other telling him to fill it back in. Oh yes, we have a "choice", and either way we're screwed.

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Re: Everything, except what we really want

Microsoft has already gone full hipster retard since... I dunno, Windows 8's Metro tiles? Also, have you seen the recent update for Skype?

Funny, I figured they were already headed to hipster retard when they came out with that ugly shiny/puffy UI in MSWin XP. It certainly hasn't improved since then, except up through MSWin7 you could at least shut off the theming.

Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop is way more functional and attractive than the MetroCrap(tm) MS is subjecting us to.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Everything, except what we really want

"You don't have to use Windows, there is choice.

Please go away, you are getting tiresome.

We've heard you the first time around"

TOOOOOO RIGHT

STFU Penguin boy

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Re: Everything, except what we really want

(1) Complete removal of all tracking;

No, An opt in for tracking. For those that don't mind sharing a little data that may help debugging and improvement. I agree it's not what some may want to keep it but make it all opt in.

(2) A logical and proper start menu;

We have that. It works fine for me. I see people with massive over complex start menus and have since XP. Just keep it simple and tidy and it works fine. I see people complain about the start menu being unmanageable and then have 4 dozen icons on the desktop. It's simple and many people - remember most windows users are not power users - like that.

(3) The option for full Aero support;

Why? It was one of the worst parts of 7. I never wanted my desktop to be all shiny and glassy. I want it more simple. And so do others. Look at many Linux themes and OSx going away from this look now it's not trendy.

(4) Permanent banishment of the ribbon and an apology for placing it everywhere;

Most end users are either so used to the ribbon they either don't care or don't notice. It's actually a quite nice way of denoting and grouping functionality in a way that traditional toolbars don't allow.

(5) The ability to control when we install updates and which ones to install;

Agreed. Again the auto updating should have been opt-in like the telemetry.

(6) The return of a pre-boot F8 so I don't have to wait for 3 unsuccessful boots or hold down shift and restart just to get to a recovery console;

You know - I've not had to use this for so long I never noticed. But yes, if it went away they should put it back. Handy for when it's required.

(7) and STOP HIDING SYSTEM RESTORE!

erm. Settings. Type System Restore into the search box and the two entries for creating a point and restoring a point appear below. That's hardly hidden.

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Coat

Re: Everything, except what we really want

"

You don't have to use Windows, there is choice.

Please go away, you are getting tiresome.

We've heard you the first time around.

"

I think he/she meant you can use the front door instead.

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Anonymous Coward

I see pretty much everyone and myself included wants the telemetry removed (I'm not going to touch it with a barge pole for this and a few other reasons)

When a product is free you are the product springs to mind whether this is the case is yet to be seen because they could introduce a subscription model at any point but then Windows 10 is no longer free. (yes I know where you can still get it that is legit, it just isn't activated)

So when I think about this what do Microsoft do with all this telemetry? They don't run the same model as Face***k whereby they sell targeted ads so its in their interest to keep the data so are Microsoft selling this to third parties? Are they selling it to Face***k?

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Windows 10 isn't free, though, and it never was. People who already have a license for certain Windows versions can get 10 for no additional charge, but that doesn't make it free. The vast majority of Windows revenue in the consumer space comes from OEM sales anyway, and that has not changed-- MS is most certainly not giving away Windows 10 for free to OEMs who will then install it on the PCs people buy.

For the time being, it looks like MS is serious when they say they are using the collected telemetry data to "improve the product," which seems harmless and benign enough. Which person who uses Windows would not want it to constantly evolve into something better?

What they leave out of that little claim is recognition that they fired their quality assurance people to save themselves some money, so now they've decided to force their home and SOHO customers to be beta testers for free. Few of these "testers" have any kind of clue about how to file a bug report that is actually helpful, let alone knowing how to test to narrow the scope of the bug and define it as well as it can be defined, so telemetry is a must-- it provides the bug reports, with enough details (which may or may not matter for any specific bug) that the necessary data is invariably going to be in there somewhere in the vast database containing all of the telemetry data.

I don't wish to be part of Microsoft's effort to make end users into beta testers against their will, even if it does ostensibly "help MS make Windows better." My thought is that Microsoft should be doing more to make Windows better, not the end users. If MS wishes to procure my services as a beta tester, they can email me or call me and we will discuss pricing and other terms. I may or may not be willing to do it, but we can at least talk about it. I will not, though, be forced to do it for free for a product I paid for. I won't be a part of this insane idea to fire QA testers to save money and then use your customers (who pay YOU for a finished product, not a job that doesn't pay anything) for that task.

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@updraft102

Yes, except

have been pushed on to 10

FTFY

And also, the "improvements" generally don't seem to make usability better. Sometimes they remove an aspect that ought to be improved, like taking the start menu out of Win 8 when all it needed was to be made more user friendly. And they brought it back less user friendly because they confuse simplicity with usability. And those invisible, charmless "charms" that only appeared when you didn't need them. As with the ribbon, they seem to think that making everything visible, like it or not, is the same as making it easier to use ( except with the "charms" they were also invisible if you did need them.). They also seem to think that making some piece of crap compulsorily available will make us want to use it. It's testing on the users, but then a terrible inability to understand what the users want, or indeed to know who to listen to. I'd lay a bet, if I was a gambler, that they don't listen to office staff, directly. The people who are using this stuff daily.

There's a basic set of common sense rules that they don't follow. Have things that people need most close to hand in a place where they expect to find them. Remove distractions and allow people to store away out of sight stuff they seldom or never need, but make it easy to find them when they need them. And the Start menu breaks all those rules. It has items in alphabetical order, by the name of the product, whether users are likely to remember what the thing is called or not and makes it difficult to group them by function to narrow down the search. And it adds in items that can't be moved or removed at all, to make searching even more difficult and it allows installation programmes to add entire folders full of extra crap instead of just a single programme link, often listed by the stinking publisher's idiotic, meaningless name, not even the programme name.

As to hardware, the whole phone phiasco tells the story. I loved my Winphone, but as noted in that thread, am replacing it this week, for an Android.

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