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Read IBM CEO Ginni Rometty's letter to staff: Why I walked from Trump's strategy forum

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yeah, but ...

Trump isn't even proper Nazi. Not surprised IBM walked away when they did.

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Re: yeah, but ...

By which I mean, "nobody properly believes that Trump is a Nazi" and "Props to IBM for sticking to #MAGA (right until it became untenable)."

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Re: yeah, but ...

That's OK, IBM isn't a proper computer company either.

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Big Brother

@F Bandersnatch Re: yeah, but ...

I wonder how many forgot that the Germans used IBM equipment during WW2 to help keep accurate records on how many Jews they killed.

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Re: @F Bandersnatch yeah, but ...

Not me. I am attempting to do the opposite of making people forget about this. Judging by the number of downvotes I received and the great preference people had for my first first post over my second, I can only conclude that people (a) don't appreciate irony (especially the recursive variety), or (b) much prefer to interpret my first post as literally suggesting that Trump isn't fascist enough over the sanitised version that presents a post-Fascist apology for my original statement.

OK, I guess that confusion surrounding irony (or meta-irony) angers people. No argument there.

For the record: Nazis are limp-dicked lizards that use the "supremacy" myth to cover up their basic inhumanity.

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...our values as a country and a company...

I don't get it, are things too sociopathic or not enough?

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Anonymous Coward

IBM was concerned that Trump didn't want IBM to continue to be an equal opportunities resource actioner. Errrr....employer...

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Linux

Trump was right the first time

Keeping in mind that since this is still America, you can say and believe anything you damn well please, no matter who you piss off. You need only to not break existing laws. Worse hatred happens every hour, on the hour, in places like Chicago, Detroit Baltimore and Los Angeles, daily. The problem with Trump's response was that it assumed a general level of intelligence of the listeners. Damn skippy no group should get out of hand during a demonstration. No one should become dead. What is REALLY wrong with this country is that we expect first class behavior from citizens that received a second class brain-deadening education devoid of critical thinking skills. Trump doesn't get that yet. He needs to realize that the majority in this country are knuckle-dragging idiots who lack a half assed education. They need to have things explained to them in a manner that requires no thinking. If Trump had explained that the Klan has been a part of the Democratic Party for 100 years, all hell would have broken out since no one knows that.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

@wayward

"The problem with Trump's response was that it assumed a general level of intelligence of the listeners. Damn skippy no group should get out of hand during a demonstration. No one should become dead. What is REALLY wrong with this country is that we expect first class behavior from citizens that received a second class brain-deadening education devoid of critical thinking skills. Trump doesn't get that yet. He needs to realize that the majority in this country are knuckle-dragging idiots who lack a half assed education. They need to have things explained to them in a manner that requires no thinking."

If you wrote that paragraph describing trump you'd be getting gazillions of up votes, as it'd be true.

There's many things Trump doesn't get, he's the bull in the China shop, smashing everything up because he doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand. Once he's gone the shop will still be there, in need of a huge cleanup and restocking, removing all the crap he left behind and in need to convince its neighbors and potential customers its safe to come back in and measures are in place to prevent any new bulls from entering.

When a nation has nuclear weapons and its leader is so removed from reality, the rest of the world truly trembles in terror. This is the reason why we don't want other nations having the bomb, as we fear their leaders are unstable and irrational.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

Keeping in mind that since this is still America, you can say and believe anything you damn well please, no matter who you piss off.

Maybe so but I think you are on dodgy ground when you start building an equivalency between Nazis and the other protestors, especially since the Nazi's were mostly brought in from out of state whilst most of the protestors were apparently locals. Also many weapons were being carried I am not sure how that fits with a peaceful protest.

It gave the impression everyone had turned up just to fight, and also seemed to give some legitimacy to the Nazi's many of those sites were playing on this.

Considering America is supposed to be a free and equal place totally denouncing them and showing the presidency holds to a better ideal may have been a far better idea.

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Facepalm

Re: Worse hatred happens every hour, on the hour...

...in places like Chicago, Detroit Baltimore and Los Angeles, daily.

Seriously? Violent mobs assemble from out of state and proceed to beat locals up? That happens daily in those places? I guess the MSM just cover that shit up to make us think that Nazis are the baddies......

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Re: Trump was right the first time

He needs to realize that the majority in this country are knuckle-dragging idiots who lack a half assed education

He does realize quiet well and knows how to manipulate them: the people you describe are the ones who elected him for president.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Trump was right the first time

Ignoring the drivel before it:

If Trump had explained that the Klan has been a part of the Democratic Party for 100 years, all hell would have broken out since no one knows that.

This uses words which are, in different contexts, true.

The Klan and the Democrats did share an ethos but this kind of means you need to dial your calendar back a century. Everyone knows this.

However the bit you overlook is that it is no longer 1895. Both political parties have changed and the electorate has changed. If you are trying to align the Democrats and Klan then there needs to be some major revisionism around what the Republicans support and, to be fair, every republican should be out on the streets fighting the White Supremacists.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

@wayward4now:"He needs to realize that the majority in this country are knuckle-dragging idiots who lack a half assed education. "

He knows his supporters only too well.

His supporters are more likely to live in states with opioid addiction problems, with people relying on Medicaid, with blue collar jobs going down the toilet. He's a puppetmaster, he just doesn't realise that someones pulling his strings too.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

"If Trump had explained that the Klan has been a part of the Democratic Party for 100 years, all hell would have broken out since no one knows that."

Trump supporters are fond of this old chestnut about ancient history, because they think it can distract attention about away from current affiliations the current president has. While it is, no doubt, embarrassing and shameful that the Democratic Party were involved with the KKK 100+ years ago, it has no relevance to Trump's associations, policies and attitude, which are in need of far more pressing attention.

The same applies to Trump supporter's laughable attempts at labelling ant-Nazi opponents as "alt-left" or "Marxists". There is no evidence that the counter protesters were Marxists, or even if there is such a concept of "alt-left". There were no mobs waving communist symbols, no chants about bringing down the capitalists. The idea that there is a Marxist movement of any significance in American, hell bent on overthrowing American values, is a fantasy created by the alt-right to justify their own actions. They hope to paint their opponents with the same extremist brush that they are tarred with. Indeed, in most cases, I seriously question if they'd know a Marxist if they even saw one. It's just a word they've heard that they understand all Americans should oppose.

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Re: Worse hatred happens every hour, on the hour...

It wasn't my comment, but more people probably die in these places from violence and hatred each day, every day.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

Even Stalin wasn't a Marxist. Nor is Putin, though he is closer to being a Stalinist.

These alt-right groups are playing into his hands.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

Based on eye-witness reports in this article : http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

It seems that

-the Neo-Nazis went there expecting, and provoking, trouble.

-there were local (peaceful) protesters who were outnumbered and were being bullied by the NN's

-Antifa were there and stepped in to take on the NN's

-Violence escalated etc.

From my point of view we shouldn't be focusing on the POTUS for not condemning the NN's enough (no mention on whether he was right or not in condemning Antifa) - we should be focusing on why the Police let this happen - it seems they were standing well back and there should be in inquiry as to why that was.

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Headmaster

Re: Trump was right the first time

@Sir Runcible Spoon:"we should be focusing on why the Police let this happen - it seems they were standing well back and there should be in inquiry as to why that was"

The nazis were supported by the second amendment crazies with assault rifles. Presumably the police didn't want a repeat of the Bundy family's Bunkerville standoff in the middle of a small college town.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

Perhaps I'm missing something, being a right-pondian, but attending a rally (whatever side you are on) that is supposed to be peaceful and then turning up armed to the teeth strongly suggests that the terms of the permit for the rally to take place have been violated.

After all, the Police are supposed to be the one's protecting people aren't they?

So, the Police should have shut the rally down in the first place once they saw the NN's tooled up, Shirley?

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Re: Trump was right the first time

@Sir Runcible Spoon:"So, the Police should have shut the rally down in the first place once they saw the NN's tooled up, Shirley?"

Anywhere else on earth, yes, that would have been the sensible thing to do.

The problem with Americans is that they think every constitutional right is absolute, and that their rights trump everybody else's.

This is how you arrive at a situation where a bunch of nazis and gun nuts can bring a small town to its knees. The right to spew hate speech and intimidate people with assault rifles is apparently afforded more protection than the locals' right to go about their lives in peace and safety.

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Gimp

Re: Trump was right the first time

Puppetmaster....hmmm; wonder if we could get the Major after him.

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@Blotto Re: Trump was right the first time

Don't sell Trump short.

He's human and has his failings.

He's not a great communicator and the MSM and politicians tend to focus on the word and not the thought behind what he is saying.

When both sides bring shields and weapons to a rally, what do you think is going to happen? And do you only blame one side?

The problem is that there are groups of people who want to oust Trump at any cost. This is unfortunate.

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Re: Worse hatred happens every hour, on the hour...

"Seriously? Violent mobs assemble from out of state and proceed to beat locals up? That happens daily in those places? I guess the MSM just cover that shit up to make us think that Nazis are the baddies......"

No in Chicago there have been cases of violent flash mobs of kids beating up some locals but mainly tourists. But I think that's in the past.

With respect to what happened in Virginia,

Violent mobs attacked another mob who came prepared for violence and the police did nothing.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

@wayward4now:"He needs to realize that the majority in this country are knuckle-dragging idiots who lack a half assed education. "

He knows his supporters only too well.

He does, however, you don't.

Many people voted for Trump for many reasons. Most of all, the other candidate would have been worse.

Do you know why the 'alt right' and 'white supremacits' side with Trump?

Because he's not Obama.

Think about that for a second.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

and TBF if it's their country they should do WTF they like with it.

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Re: Worse hatred happens every hour, on the hour...

I think your subtlety went over the head!

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@Spoon Re: Trump was right the first time

You are correct, except that the 'NN' wouldn't have attacked the protesters outright. That would have defeated their purpose.

If the NN attacked, then the press would condemn them as thugs out for violence.

If the NN didn't attack, then they can claim that they scared the protesters in to submission and claim victory.

If the NN didn't attack but were attacked, and they defended themselves, they now have cannon fodder to recruit people and more money.

BLM and Antifa both raised funds and attended the protest with the intent to cause violence.

You are correct, the city and the police are to blame. There's more to that than what has been reported in the MSM. It appears the vice-mayor is a bit of a racist with a chip on his shoulder. There are reports that the antifa attacked the police which is why they backed off.

It was a bonfire waiting to happen and multiple groups of people brought fuel and matches to the event.

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Boffin

@Snorlax Re: Trump was right the first time

I suggest you learn the facts before you spout nonsense.

Not everyone had rifles. And no they were not assault rifles. Class III weaponry is expensive and heavily licensed and regulated.

The police backed off when the antifa members started chucking pop cans filled with concrete.

There are some who are saying that the antifa noticed a pattern of police backing away when challenged with violence. Hence the violence protests. Ferguson, Berkley and others show this pattern to be true.

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Re: Trump was right the first time

you need to make 2 changes, the klan had been part of the Democratic party and is currently part of the Republican party for the last 50 years.

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Boffin

@Snorlax Re: Trump was right the first time

You should get some help for your fixation on guns. I would suggest seeing a doctor, but apparently under the NHS unless you tell them you're suicidal, its a six month wait.

And if you actually bothered to learn your history, you would have looked at the 1977 SCOTUS decision which said that wearing a swastika is protected under the First Amendment. This also led to the 1978 attempts by a neo-nazi to march on Skokie.

If you want you can google some recent articles in the Chicago Tribune that talk about the march as well as the protests around the decision by the Supreme Courts. Very interesting reading.

And there were more than just Neo-Nazis. There were 'alt-right', 'former KKK' and other hate groups making up one side. On the other BLM, and Antifa were also present, armed and looking for a fight. Heck you can even google and find a FB post by BLM looking for Paypal donations to send people in to the city for a fight.

Plenty of blame to go around son... and frankly, you and your lack of thought isn't helping. Nor do you appreciate the larger issue.

If Americans were to make certain ideology groups outlawed, you would have started down the path of who's next? You want to go after Neo Nazis. Sure, I get it, who doesn't? What about the Antifa who's name is ironic because they are acting like the fascists they claim to hate? Black Lives Matter who's marches and protests have caused damage, shut down highways, and have openly called for the execution of the police? (Dallas, Louisiana, NYC just to name a few examples. )

And then you have the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) which has been compared to the Hitler Youth.

(Yes, you too can google it...)

Do you ban the BSA?

Really?

Hopefully now you see the problem.

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Boffin

Re: Trump was right the first time

The KKK aka Clan is dead.

The Southern Poverty Law Center sued them in to bankruptcy and they no longer exist.

The problem is that the group dies but the ideology survives.

And to your point, they will align with the political party which they think represents their values.

What you and others are missing is that there was a resurgence under Obama because they felt marginalized and threatened. I've spent some time in the South. I've met Good Ol Boys and Rednecks. I've seen racists too.

Trump is a lightening rod because he wants to upset the status quo.

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Facepalm

Re: @Blotto Trump was right the first time

@Ian Michael Gumby:"When both sides bring shields and weapons to a rally, what do you think is going to happen? And do you only blame one side?"

Don't be so disingenuous. You can't incite or engineer a confrontation and then complain that the people who find you to be reprehensible are to blame.

The time for thinking about possible repercussions was before the nazi scum organised the rally.

I'm surprised and disappointed at the number of nazi apologists on this site.

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Re: @Snorlax Trump was right the first time

Bullshit. You're the only one spouting nonsense. Stop apologising for nazis and gun nuts.

Plenty of media coverage of gun nuts with AR-15's in Charlottesville. Or do you get your news from Breitbart and Fox News exclusively?

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Mushroom

@Snoralax Re: @Blotto Trump was right the first time

You truly are clueless.

Nobody here is apologizing for the NN and the White Supremacists. Not even Trump.

To clarify,

On the one side which you call Nazis, you had Neo-Nazi, White Supremacits, 'Alt-Right' and other similar groups. It wasn't a single cohesive group. Not to mention a group of people who were protesting the removal of the statues because they wanted to protect our history.

On the other, you had BLM, Antifa, and miscellaneous peaceful protesters. Which in your mind you conflate to 'peaceful protester'.

Sure those who scheduled the rally expected to have a violent opposition.

I would suggest you think of the possible outcomes and how the rally organizers could use it to their advantage.

Clearly you don't think before you post and you clearly haven't a clue about what is going on in this country.

You want to blame Trump, but in truth... most of this started while Obama was President.

To ignore the violence caused by BLM and Antifa not only adds fuel to the fire, but also is unfair because they too share the blame for the violence.

I suggest you look at the March on Skokie IL back in '78.

Nothing happened. Why? Because the police did their job and shut down the march before violence could happen. That didn't happen here. Ask yourself why.

Learn your history son, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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Mushroom

Re: @Snorlax Trump was right the first time

Son,

First, you said assault rifles.

Those are class III weapons. Under NFA regulation.

Clearly you don't know your gun laws. (NFA is national, yet there are others that vary state by state )

There were no assault rifles present.

(Free clue. I live in Chicago IL. I can legally own an M1A. I cannot own a select fire M14, AR-15, or M-16, M4 or other variants. I cannot place my M1A in certain stocks that have a pistol grip. This is due to Chicago and Cook County gun laws. Of the guns I listed, M-14, M-16 and the M-4 are all select fire rifles which would classify them as assault rifles. The State of IL doesn't allow civilian ownership of NFA regulated weapons. Do you really want to question my knowledge of gun laws and weapons?)

Now with respect to the march, not everyone was carrying a weapon. (The rifles were considered open carry) And funny how in all of the melee there was no firearm discharge, now why was that?

(Again you need to know your gun laws...)

So the only one spouting nonsense is you.

You clearly don't know your gun laws and you clearly don't understand why no firearms were used.

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Boffin

@Triggerfish ... Re: Trump was right the first time

"

Maybe so but I think you are on dodgy ground when you start building an equivalency between Nazis and the other protestors, especially since the Nazi's were mostly brought in from out of state whilst most of the protestors were apparently locals.

"

Uhm... no.

Both Antifa and BLM brought in protesters.

You can use google to find the FB comment from BLM asking for PayPal donations to get people to the protest.

Seriously.

You can't make this stuff up, You just need to use google.

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Boffin

@Snorlax... Re: Trump was right the first time

Dude!

You are so utterly clueless.

I bet you support BDS too.

Look mate, I'll break it down for you.

You said :

@Sir Runcible Spoon:"So, the Police should have shut the rally down in the first place once they saw the NN's tooled up, Shirley?"

Anywhere else on earth, yes, that would have been the sensible thing to do.

The problem with Americans is that they think every constitutional right is absolute, and that their rights trump everybody else's.

So, clearly you're not an American and you don't know our history or our laws.

Go back to 1977 (probably before you were born) and check out the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) supporting the right for a neo nazi maroon to wear a swastika on his arm.

This is also the same maroon who wanted to march his neo nazi group, brownshirts and all , down main street in Skokie IL.

He won.

He made two attempts to march but they were shut down mid march because the police couldn't guarantee their safety. (He gave up on his third attempt.)

Keep in mind, back then, you didn't bus people in, and you didn't need to have weapons.

So, yes the police could have shut down the event in Virginia.

As to our rights.

Yes they do supersede other laws. And what you don't realize is that when you attempt to shut them down, you walk down a slippery slope that ends up with no freedoms and you're in some sort of kafkaesque world.

I don't blame you for your ignorance. Too many Americans also fail to grok the importance of our liberties.

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FAIL

Re: @Snoralax @Blotto Trump was right the first time

@Ian Michael Dumby:"You truly are clueless..."

Aw diddums. Poor Gumby is #triggered.

Take a break from your hysterical shitposting, and have a Xanax and a lie down. Or maybe go play with some guns.

We get it - you're an apologist for fascist scum. You don't need to differentiate between the types of fascist scum you're making excuses for...

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Re: @Triggerfish ... Trump was right the first time

Maybe so but I think you are on dodgy ground when you start building an equivalency between Nazis and the other protestors, especially since the Nazi's were mostly brought in from out of state whilst most of the protestors were apparently locals.

"

Uhm... no.

Umm yes.

You can also use google to see quite what the difference was. Now also please note I have not said the antifa were peaceful. I said it was mainly locals who were there, a lot of which got attacked.

And if you build a false equivalency between a hate group that is spouting bullshit about why other races should die versus them even with the antifa and by not being plain on this then you give them more power, so I think you are going the down the wrong path.

Its quite simple free speech or not there is nothing wrong with thinking the Nazis and those following that ideology are utterly foul. To put them in the same region as those against it says that there is a tacit approval of the fact that this ethos is as valid as theirs and has a place in modern society.

If a bunch of people wandered down the street being vile and shouting for I dunno say the right to rape and kill, and people argued against them would you paint them as the same? Or would you say one lot might have used the wrong tactics to counter protest which we can't condone say like the antifa, but at least they are fighting from a better moral ground. There is no moral equivalency with Nazi's and you shouldn't try and make one.

Also yes they were not assault rifles, but and no gun expert but an AR15 fires either a .556 Nato, or a .22 long round if I am correct, both rounds that have plenty of penetration power, easily will go through someone, or the usual sort of cover like a car or say someones sheetrock house wall. I believe some military units like the marines also carry single shot automatic rifles nowadays rather than the something that can provide auto. So technicality aside on the actual name of the weapon, that's a weapon with a serious round and capability to be carrying in a peaceful protest.

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Flame

Re: @Snoralax @Blotto Trump was right the first time

Son,

You're not intelligent enough to push my buttons.

The sad truth is that you like many others here spout half truth and utter nonsense.

There's an op-ed piece on Fox's site from a resident of Charlottesville who explained what set up this situation.

I point you and others to historical facts that also led to this confrontation, as well as point to the fact that the confrontation could have been avoided.

You spout nonsense out of ignorance. You also misunderstand what I am saying and why I am saying it.

The issue isn't support for neo-nazi, alt-right, white supremacists. The issue is the support for the law that allows them to say what they want. You probably never heard the expression "I disagree with what you are saying, but I'll defend your right to say it.". Its a paraphrase of a quote that was written over 100 years ago.

You clearly aren't an American or understand why we believe in the first amendment rights.

The issue is that you want to shut down speech and ideas that you don't agree with.

You don't want to assign blame to the BLM who were present and are also part of the problem.

You don't want to assign blame to the Antifa who were also present and were shown to be attacking the police prior to the event. And the Antifa are actually acting like fascists by shutting down ideas and speech that they don't like.

You are just as ignorant as the youth in America today. And that's a major problem.

Maybe one day you will learn.

You want to stop racism, you start with educating them.

I personally have stopped several people from being antisemitic. Just by being myself and showing the stereotype to be wrong. What have you done to stop hatred and bigotry?

Grow up. You're heading down the slope of being a fascist and creating the society you claim to hate.

Maybe you should reread Animal Farm? Assuming you read it in the first place.

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FAIL

Re: @Snoralax @Blotto Trump was right the first time

@Ian Michael Gumby:"The issue is the support for the law that allows them to say what they want. You probably never heard the expression "I disagree with what you are saying, but I'll defend your right to say it.". Its a paraphrase of a quote that was written over 100 years ago."

It's not a law that allows them to say what they want, it's a constitutional amendment. You don't appear to know the difference.

Judging by the amount of downvotes you're getting I'm pretty sure everybody on here is tired of your shit. But carry on by all means; it's your constitutional right to talk crap.

Son.

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Boffin

Re: @Triggerfish ... Trump was right the first time

@Triggerfish...

You missed the point, but since you want to talk about firearms...

The 5.56 mm round is a .223 which is a .22 caliber round. I won't go in the the ballistic differences other than to say that the 5.56x51mm is a larger case containing a larger charge behind the bullet. But both can kill. In terms of penetration. most pistol rounds can penetrate a car door easily. You can find YouTube videos demonstrating this. And those are 9mm, .40 S&W, .45ACP and .357Sig rounds that are commonly used in the police force today.

There is no such thing as a 'single shot automatic rifle'. There are muzzle loaders, bolt action, semi-auto and full auto (select fire) weapons. (Select fire in that you can fire semi-auto, burst, and full automatic, while some will not fire bursts but either semi or full auto and other that will fire bursts but not full auto. It depends on the weapon and its trigger group.)

The use of the term 'assault rifle' has both legal and historical significance. Hence its important to note that while some carried rifles (AR-15) some also carried pistols (both open and concealed). But they were in the minority. (There's a reason for this...) And during all of the violence, not a single shot was fired.

While you may focus on the optics of the men brandishing weapons, you need to know the gun laws. First, only residents of the state can carry a concealed weapon if they have a conceal carry permit. Those from outside of the state can carry concealed weapons if the state (Virginia) recognizes the other state's permit. (Reciprocity) You can go online and see which state honors what.

But then you get in to the question of where and when is it legal to actually use your fire arm. Note too that even with open carry, there are rules that vary from state to state that allow open carry.

IMHO it was foolish of them to brandish rifles. If you use it, the odds are you will end up in jail and you would lose your rifle. At best, you may be found not guilty, however it will be a very expensive lesson.

Firearms are not toys. Full disclosure. I legally own several bolt action rifles, semi-auto rifles, shotguns and pistols. I regularly shoot in order to maintain my proficiency and have a healthy respect for the damage a gun can do.

Also, lets be clear. Neither side wanted a peaceful protest.

To help put the issue in context.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/17/charlottesville-never-had-to-happen-how-craven-local-politicians-led-our-nation-into-tragedy.html

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Re: @Snoralax @Blotto Trump was right the first time

The truth is a popularity contest? Really?

I think that says a lot about you and your vision of reality.

You are closer to being a fascist that you so hate than you realize.

You tend to revel in your ignorance. And that's the sad pathetic truth.

You clear don't know constitutional law. Or its significance in shaping this country.

I've already suggested that you read Animal Farm.

You should also read 'A Nation Takes Shape' by Cuniliffe.

There's more, but seriously its all wasted on you. What do they teach you in school these days?

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Re: @Triggerfish ... Trump was right the first time

OK so I am willing to say I am not informed about guns. But the side argument aside of what actual types of guns they are, is that not still some heavy weaponry to carry to a peaceful protest?

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Re: @Snoralax @Blotto Trump was right the first time

"We get it - you're an apologist for fascist scum. You don't need to differentiate between the types of fascist scum you're making excuses for..."

I'm truly confused as to whether you actually believe what you are saying or are being deliberately disingenuous in order to get a rise.

Please could you provide the original text you are responding to when putting words other peoples' mouths, because I didn't anywhere that Ian was making apologies or excuses for anyone, let alone the NN's etc.

At the moment it rather looks like you are taking the view 'if you aren't frothing at the mouth and are determined to have an intelligent discussion about this then I'm going to accuse you of siding with the worst group that is under discussion'.

This approach (sadly) probably works on people who are only 1mm deep, but not for those of us that can still fire neurons.

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Headmaster

Re: @Snoralax @Blotto Trump was right the first time

@Ian Michael Gumby:"I think that says a lot about you and your vision of reality."

You poor snowflake. I said yesterday you were triggered and that is true without doubt.

Why else would you go to the trouble of typing so many lengthy replies to various people's criticism?

It's ironic that people like you who bring out the corny old cliche "I disagree with what you are saying, but I'll defend your right to say it." are the same people who talk down to (and try to ridicule) those who don't agree with them.

My vision of reality is just fine. The people who organised the rally in Charlottesville are fascist pieces of shit, just like the people who make excuses for them. The world seems to agree.

I've read Animal Farm BTW. You remind me of Squealer, loyal to his leader, justifying Napoleons actions and trying to confuse the uneducated...

One other thing - this is a UK website as you can see from the .co.uk in your address bar. You may be surprised to learn that "muh freedomz" such as the first and second amendments don't apply extra-territorially

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Re: @Triggerfish ... Trump was right the first time

@Triggerfish/Snorlax & Downvoters

A question for you (genuine one) - Why does recognizing that, in addition to a bunch of Nazi wankers, a bunch of left-wing extremists were *also* at fault immediately result in accusations of support for the Nazi's?

I would really like to understand the reasoning behind this process, because it is truly baffling me and I think is causing a lot of conflict between people who would otherwise agree (in general that is).

I'm also going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Ian is responding because he believes you are only looking at one side of the picture and missing key elements on the other side that might come back to haunt you if you continue to conflate it with 'the enemy'.

By not acknowledging all of the components in this situation when discussing it someone who is, you are creating your own view where you think he is being superior - part of you must be acknowledging (at a subconscious level at least) that you aren't being honest, and that it is yourself that is triggered. Ever hear of projection?

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Re: Trump was right the first time

If Trump had explained that the Klan has been a part of the Democratic Party for 100 years, all hell would have broken out since no one knows that.

Plenty of Americans over the age of 40 remembers the solidly blue South. What's funny is that people waving the "Democrats were the Klan" flag try to avoid discussing Nixon-Reagan Southern Strategy, which captured all those Klan-loving Democratic voters for the Republican party.

Sure, the Klan WAS part of the Democratic Party for 100 years, from about 1865 to 1965. Now the Klan is currently Republican, and has been that way for 40 years going on 50. If it's bad for the Klan to have been Democratic, what's that say about the current Republican party?

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Re: @Blotto Trump was right the first time

When both sides bring shields and weapons to a rally, what do you think is going to happen? And do you only blame one side?

Mmm. False equivalency fallacy. Let's try some of that, too:

“You know, one side hates minorities, the other side hates people who hate minorities. Okay? Two sides. All right? It’s just like D-Day. Remember, D-Day: two sides, Allies and the Nazis. There was a lot of violence on both sides.” --Colbert, as Donald Trump

"I don’t agree with the Nazis, but they had a permit for Normandy & the Allies didn’t." --General Trump.

"Sure the Empire is evil, but nobody is talking about the extremely violent Rebel Alliance." --Darth Trump

"Sure, the cancer was aggressive. But the chemotherapy was also very aggressive. There was aggression on both sides." --Dr. Trump.

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