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PayPal, accused of facilitating neo-Nazi rally, promises to deny hate groups service

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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PayPal is the Inquisition?

Are they torturing and killing white supremacists? Perhaps with cars?

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Especially not Theil, Palantir or Cambridge Analytica.

Our chief weapon is surprise! (because we cunningly didn't mention them in the article!)

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I wonder when all the companies that have profited from slavery are going to issue a statement.

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When they announce their emigration as they hand the country back to native Americans.

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But after its handed back to the native americans they then have to hand it back to the Paleoamericans who may have been here before them. I think there's still a tribe of them on the mountain in the woods behind our house.

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I wonder when all the companies that have profited from slavery are going to issue a statement.

Do you mean the West African kingdoms?

How about the Italian government?

Time to rename July & August - no more months named after slave-owning war criminals!

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Facepalm

...promises to deny hate groups service

All PayPal needs to do then is to apply their usual level of crap customer service and spurious funds withholding ('for your protection'), and these groups will soon shut down.

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Anonymous Coward

promises to deny hate groups service

Does this mean they will deny service to the NFL and LGBT groups? I don't really care what they push but I do very much dislike the way they attack anyone who doesn't agree with them.

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Re: promises to deny hate groups service

I don't think these groups ever (or at least routinely) advocate the death of those they rant about.

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@AC

"I don't really care what they push but I do very much dislike the way they attack anyone who doesn't agree with them."

I think you raise a fair concern but I also think you're missing the point as well.

It's not uncommon for online payment services to deny you their services based on the services you're providing. For example.. A somewhat comparable service to Paypal would be 2Checkout. According to their website the best you can get for integrating e-commerce on your website (supported by oscommerce, Magento, WordPress, etc.).

However, if you check their prohibited product list you'll notice that there are many things they will not support. Adult entertainment is a major no, same goes for firearms and armament (even though this can be fully legal in the US), tobacco related products, medical services, financial services or advice (including consultancy, debt collecting, credit card protection) and this even goes so far that they also won't condone social media advertising and online gaming or trading with in-game items.

Now, some may seem a bit obvious (like firearms and tobacco) but there's normally nothing illegal about online gaming, advertising or consultancy. Yet those services are plain out denied here.

Prohibited services (you'd need to ask their permission first): events / seminars, dating / social networking and donations. Once again things which are perfectly normal and totally legal.

And this is just one online payment provider, there are dozens more which also have their specific set of rules, including Paypal. The Dutch variant of this link clearly mentions that activities which involve around hate, violence, intolerance and racial discrimination won't be permitted. And the last change of that webpage is said to be from 2015. Long before the recent happenings.

So yeah, don't be too hasty here with accusing Paypal for being politically correct. Chances are high that it's not so much about the political ideas which these groups have, but more so how they're trying to monetize on it.

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attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

"while many in Washington seem more concerned with attacking anyone who disagrees with them. "

That's not uncommon in politics, but the Trump administration, and Trump in particular, seem to have taken it to a whole new level. Witness Trumps reaction on Twitter to that first resignation. Childish in the extreme.

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Re: attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

No body.

Apparently no brain, either.

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Re: attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

Today he disbanded two business councils because a wave of additional CEO resignations happened in response to his pathetic statements yesterday. Talk about "childish to the extreme", he basically took his ball and went home because no one wanted to play with him anymore!

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Re: attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

No body.

I ain't got nobody. Nobody loves me. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody cares for me. Nobody. Nobody.

(sing it, Mpeler)

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Facepalm

Re: attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

Apparently he disbanded them after they'd decided to disband themselves. source

"You can't quit, you're fired!"

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In the long run

This Trump-inspired resurgence of white supremacy is exposing the losers and hurting them. It's heartbreaking to see how often violence must precede social change. But since Charlottesville, Confederate statues (not historical monuments, but 1920s responses to an earlier resurgence of racism in the South) are coming down, Trump is exposed for the soulless cretin he always was, dailystormer.com has gone dark, and now racist groups' ability to fund their anti-American practices are being interdicted. The Nazis got their asses kicked the last time around, and they're getting the same treatment this time. Heather Heyer didn't die in vain.

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WTF?

Re: In the long run

Try again, alt-left. Those monuments were raised by DEMOCRATS, the same party that gave you the civil war and the KKK. And, by the way, the (un)Civil War was about more than just slavery, which was the tarp thrown over the wreck that the financing of the USA had become.

And another Democrat, Wilson made a right mess of that, too. The Fed is no better than the EZB.

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Re: In the long run

It isn't a trump inspired rise it is a DNC, and MSM inspired rise as white people are sick of being told they have special privileges granted to them by their skin color, and they should feel guilty for what people who happened to share their same skin color did hundreds of years ago.

As long as the DNC, and MSM keeps pushing identity politics it will just grow stronger.

In all honesty how I see it the cause, and effect are opposites Trump was elected due to people feeling alienated by their government. He in turn called it out, and gave a promise to try and fix it which resonated with people.

So here is a question will paypal also block BLM, and ANTIFA off their site?

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Re: In the long run

dailystormer.com has gone dark

In what has to be the ultimate irony, they have resurfaced with a .ru domain name.

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Re: In the long run

So here is a question will paypal also block BLM, and ANTIFA off their site?

If they start waving Nazi flags and shouting "Jews will not replace us," I sincerely hope so.

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Re: In the long run

It isn't a trump inspired rise it is a DNC, and MSM inspired rise as white people are sick of being told they have special privileges granted to them by their skin color, and they should feel guilty for what people who happened to share their same skin color did hundreds of years ago.

You seem to not grasp that a lot of the reason why DNC et al. are saying and doing as they are right now is not because of what some did years back, but because of what some are doing RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

I would utterly expunge every trace of the Confederacy, save those items required to show just how truly awful they were. They went to war to preserve the right to own other human beings. This bunch of morons has no problem with this. That, all by itself, says all that needs be said about them. There are actual swastika-waving for real Nazis in the mix, ,which makes things still worse; three of my father's and two of my mother's brothers died fighting Nazis. If I were to express my true feelings, this post would undoubtedly be modded, so I won't. I will be letting my elected representatives (Republicans) know exactly where I stand. There's an election coming up for local offices later this year, and Congressional elections and more state and local elections next year. I will be voting, and not for anyone who supports these morons.

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Re: In the long run

@Mpeler, please learn your history. The Republican party of Lincoln was a radical, anti-slavery party. The Democrats at that time were on the side of the slave-owners. After the Civil War, the Republican Party slowly became less radical, the longer it held power. There was a strong resentment in the South and a determination to resist what the USA was becoming. the word 'Dixiecrat can be applied avant la lettre to cover this mentality. But as the 20th century wore on, the parties did a slow flip-flop, with Republicans being what the 1850s Democrats were, and the Democrats becoming more liberal. Yes, Woodrow Wilson was a racist and a Democrat, because they went hand in hand a century ago. Of course, no party was really non-racist until perhaps the late 20th century.

Parties change, parties transmute. You can't say 'Democrats supported the KKK' when it was an entirely different party. If we can say that, then we can accuse the Republicans of all sorts of liberalism.

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Re: In the long run

What if they start openly advocating and using violence? Oh wait, both groups have done that already. But apparently it's the GOOD kind of violence according to some people...

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Re: In the long run

I wouldn't bother arguing if I were you. Given the post voting record on this site you'd be forgiven for thinking the country was 90% left wing.

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Re: In the long run

You can stop with that discredited meme, the pubs own the Nazis now, lock stock and barrel.

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Re: In the long run

Which country? As this is a British web site and all.

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Re: In the long run

@Hollerithevo

It is amusing (for many reasons) to read the collected works of Robert Green Ingersoll. Ingersoll was a solid Republican. Back in the late 18th century he ran for various offices and worked on presidential primary campaigns. And he wrote about politics (amongst other things).

What strikes me most about his political writings, which were representative of the mainstream of Republican thought at the time, were how closely they aligned with the sort of thing Bernie Sanders says now. That and the fact that Donald Trump would fit in perfectly with the Democrats of the time, as described by Ingersoll.

As you said, parties change. The Republicans were slowly becoming as corrupt as the Democrats at the same time as the Democrats were losing their racist tendencies. The real tipping point came with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. With that the Democrats lost the old Confederate states in exchange for the black vote and the Republicans gained the Confederate states at the expense of their souls. The Republicans are now as corrupt and racist as the Democrats were 150 years ago and the Democrats are mostly free of racism but still tainted by corruption in places.

The Republicans call themselves the party of Lincoln, but he would disavow them were he alive today.

The words "Republican" and "Democrat" should be considered as the names of variables. The contents of those variables can change. They're not constants.

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@Mpeler

Just because the democrats were on the wrong side in the civil war and were the home of the KKK for a century doesn't make it untrue that those white supremacists are all republicans now - ever since Johnson signed the CRA and VRA in 64/65. Previously the KKK and their ilk didn't have much reason to engage in the national electoral process, because a great man like Reagan would never dream of sucking up to nazis and white supremacists like pathetic Trump did yesterday. The nazis finally have a president they love, and it astounds me that any republicans still defend him after yesterday.

Luckily not everyone is quite so stupid. Last night several of my friends who had been Trump supporters from the time he announced posted to Facebook disavowing him and apologizing for all the good things they said about him. They all used the same wording, so I'm guessing it is something that organized in Trump groups on Facebook or something like that.

Unless that's an isolated incident, which I hope it is not, we will see millions of republicans deserting him and his approval ratings setting new lows before long. Hopefully Mueller finds enough dirt on him to get him impeached, or congress decides to invoke the 25th amendment on him. True republicans would be much happier with Pence, who would never say things like Trump did yesterday that bring shame to the republican brand, because unlike Trump he isn't a racist with a father who was arrested at a KKK rally in the 20s.

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Re: In the long run

As long as the DNC, and MSM keeps pushing identity politics it will just grow stronger.

The Daily Stormer's Twitter accounts have been taken down -- by Twitter. The DS site moved to a .ru domain, but it's now down too. So how's that "stronger" thing working for ya?

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Re: In the long run

Florida1920 sez:

"If they start waving Nazi flags and shouting "Jews will not replace us," I sincerely hope so."

But as long as they just riot and loot and hit conservatives and whites with rocks and chains it's o-kay with you?

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Re: In the long run

"Confederate statues (not historical monuments, but 1920s responses to an earlier resurgence of racism in the South) are coming down, "

It's worth noting that General Lee explicitly spoke against memorials to the war, never flew the confederate flag after he lost and promoted reconciliation between north and south for the rest of his life.

He'd be pretty unimpressed by what's been done using his image and his battle flag - which he never wanted seen again.

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Re: In the long run

Right now it's conservatives who are the reactionary right wing rednecks, but they've periodically switched sides over history.

JFK was in Texas that fateful day to try and keep the southern democrats onside - and texas was a democrat state at the time.

The problem isn't the parties as such, it's the politics of hate and who's pulling the strings.

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Re: In the long run

"In what has to be the ultimate irony, they have resurfaced with a .ru domain name."

And according to whois, are hosted via Cloudflare.

Anyone want some popcorn?

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Re: In the long run

"Right now it's conservatives who are the reactionary right wing rednecks..."

No, right now YOU are casually using derogatory names to describe those you apparently dislike. What's your problem, Alan? Civility too hard for you? Or do you feel "justified?"

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Re: In the long run

And throw piss and shit.

And throw acid, blinding one...

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Re: In the long run

>Confederate statues (not historical monuments, but 1920s responses to an earlier resurgence of racism in the South

Yes. This needs to be emphasised. These aren't celebrating Confederate heroes, they're celebrating Jim Crow.

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Election Time

"There's an election coming up for local offices later this year, and Congressional elections and more state and local elections next year. I will be voting, and not for anyone who supports these morons."

I'm registered Republican. I shall be staying a registered Republican precisely so that I can vote in primaries against anyone who supports nazis and the klan. This would, of course, include the sitting president. Should a nazi-supporter get past the primaries, I'll be voting for anyone the Democrats put up. Anyone. Even (sigh) Hilary. Even the likes of Alcee Hastings, now a Congresscritter, but formerly the only the sixth Federal judge ever impeached. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcee_Hastings

Yes, I'll go that far to do what I can to keep nazi scum at bay. I've voted conservative all my life; even Caribou Barbie wasn't enough to keep me from voting for McCain. Except... Romney was a non-starter, and no power on Earth would make me vote for Trump. (Yes, the last time I voted in the UK I helped Milk Snatcher Tatcher into office. Say what you want about Maggie, she wasn't Romney or Trump.) As a direct result of the Orange Maniac's actions, I'll be voting the straight Democrat ticket, at least until he and all who support him are out of office. I'm sure that I'm not alone.

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So no service for the White House then...

Trying to define hate is rather difficult - because you tend not to see the hate you perpetrate...

Not that I would support the group in question, but this sort of 'won't do business with' is on dodgy ground... By all means keep an eye on their transactions and flag anything that looks potentially illegal, but that's as much as they can reasonably do.

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Re: So no service for the White House then...

Why is it 'as much as they can reasonably do'? PayPal isn't a Government-funded charity that must serve all without question. It's a private company. As long as it itself doesn't break laws, it can take or reject those who it feels have broached the contract between them.

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Re: So no service for the White House then...

"Trying to define hate is rather difficult - because you tend not to see the hate you perpetrate..."

I hate that black guy over there. Because he's less intelligent/educated/civilised than me. Also he hates me back because I'm white. Oh and there's his religion too. And the fact that he has more rights than me. But actually this is just post-hoc justification. I really just hate him because he's different to me.

You hate me because I hate him. You think you are right to hate me because I am wrong to hate him, and all the things I say about him are incorrect.

I disagree with you, and show sources that prove my facts are correct. You dispute my sources and show yours that prove I am wrong. But really you just hate me because I think differently to you.

We meet in the street and fight.

The rest of the world endlessly debates who's right and who's wrong.

Does that sum it all up pretty well?

Welcome to Humanity.

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Re: So no service for the White House then...

"Why is it 'as much as they can reasonably do'? PayPal isn't a Government-funded charity that must serve all without question. It's a private company. As long as it itself doesn't break laws, it can take or reject those who it feels have broached the contract between them."

Because such discrimination is, quite rightly, illegal.

If a baker can be hung, drawn and quartered for refusing to bake a specific cake (not for refusing to bake for the couple, but refusing a specific commission) then we shouldn't be holding PayPal to a different standard. (yes, yes, UK/RoI vs US)

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Anonymous Coward

I am continually amused by the suggestion that hatred, racist, supremacist, bigoted speech must be allowed because we will otherwise be the worse off for not allowing it.

The only people who benefit from "the right to hate" are the people who want to hate who often want to do much worse.

There is no such thing as a nice nazi. Like cancers - we will be better off without them.

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Well here is the thing once you allow the powers that be to shut them down you are doing 2 things.

One you are legitimizing them. They are saying that they are not being represented, and are crying fowl you will only give them more publicity. If Antifa,, and all the other counter protesters didn't show up to start trouble nothing would have happened in the slightest there were something like 500 people that showed up (OOO big bad scary protest). No one would have heard about this outside some local station reporting it. In all truth the media, and the other groups sorta played right into what they would wanted. Lets face it if a crazy man is spouting idiotic things on a box do you put them on national TV so their idiocy can be heard by all?

Second is you are setting a dangerous precedent by restricting freedom of speech, and giving the powers that be a new tool to silence those they don't agree with. Today it might be who you deem Nazi's, and white supremacist. Tomorrow it could be anything you say that goes against what they deem dangerous. We have seen this with Antifa they started "punching Nazi's in the face", and that violence seems to have expanded to anyone to the right of Lenin.

As Evelyn Beatrice Hall once wrote "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

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Anonymous Coward

"If Antifa,, and all the other counter protesters didn't show up to start trouble nothing would have happened in the slightest"

History tells us that is not the case. Where I live in the UK a group arranged a demo under the disguise of being for "St Georges Day" but was really just an excuse for right wing nutters to meet up. There was debate over opposing them, but your argument was followed, and after their "peaceful march" they went and attacked several local gay bars etc. The following year they came back with twice as many people and openly verbally abused people in the street (both LGBT and POC), so the year after that there was a small opposition, which keep them contained to an extent. The year after that there was a massive turn out (5000+ people against their 100-ish), and they haven't been back since.

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"Second is you are setting a dangerous precedent by restricting freedom of speech,"

Is freedom of speech under US law protected to the extent that incitement to violence is allowed? Would I be allowed to freely incite people to assassinate Trump? What if I posted an image of a train running over and killing the President? Oh, it's all getting a bit murkey now.

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>One you are legitimizing them.

Bullshit. They will never be legitimate. They went to Charlottesville to stir up trouble.

>Second is you are setting a dangerous precedent by restricting freedom of speech

Also bullshit. Freedom of speech carries a responsibility - to understand the effect of that speech. Many of these low-brow marchers are just spouting hate speech as IRL trolls - to provoke others. Now they know that hate breeds hate.

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"There is no such thing as a nice nazi." ... certainly so ... but it is not for Paypal to determine whether they can benefit from services available to everyone ... Limiting their rights is the role of justice.

Well, I mean that only for democratic countries, of course.

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All thugs use collectivism to rule. They start by taking away your individual right to think and apply logic. They have done this in the West via our schools, colleges and media. The left which believes in heavy government control are dominating in all of our societies mega phones. Nazis did exactly that they used national Socialism, which is left wing, also not to be confused with nationalism alone, Ghandi and Mandela were nationalist and so were the anticolonialists. Socialism is a form of collectivism and the agenda for the group can be anything the leaders use and want to keep control and stay in power, Hitler used racism against Jews and violence. The Democrats in the US are doing the same, but in addition they are using immigration etc. The Labour Party in the UK are using Islam, immigration as things that are untouchable regardless if you comment you are an enemy of the collective group and are subjected to ruin with no limits... etc etc...What ordinary people need to do is step back from the hype and listen to each other you will find you have more common ground than you think, we on the ground stand to loose in chaos for some they continue and will continue to live lavishly if we allow it, whilst we fight each other over lies. Even if the rally was far right it was 500 people really not a huge white supremacist movement. The police outnumbered protesters etc 2 to 1,the Police were ordered to step down or vanish just as th e left wing thugs started the violence. Why?

An order by a democrat, a democratic controlled area. Trump is right, he condemned all violence, you may not like his style but he is not the problem the Democrats are, they set this up . Same way people used Tommy's passion and twisted it to mean aggression to tarnish him. The only way to understand the real Trump is to listen to him directly not via the BBC or CNN.

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>national Socialism, which is left wing

Bollocks.

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