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Nokia's comeback is on: The flagship 8 emerges

Silver badge

Same old, same old

"cheaper-than-flagship is an unforgiving place to be"

Particularly when "Nokia" decide to have the now de rigeur sealed battery. Twats. As a sub-premium buyer, I'm value conscious. A device I have to chuck away after two years because the battery has faded isn't good value, particularly if I've paid a few bob more for the camera and DAC.

The new Nokia phones tick all the boxes of my requirements (decent smartphone, screen quality, decent camera, good audio)....and then they throw it all way with a sealed in battery to save 1mm on the thickness.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Same old, same old

Catering to the overwhelming majority of the market who hugely prefer the longer life, stronger construction and thinner profile of a sealed battery hardly makes someone a twat.

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Silver badge

Re: Same old, same old

Catering to the overwhelming majority of the market who hugely prefer the longer life, stronger construction and thinner profile of a sealed battery hardly makes someone a twat.

No? There's any number of credible, mid range phones with all the capabilities of Nokia's new handsets. "Me too" has never been a path to profit, so where's the differentiation? How do these fundamentally differ from the latest Moto handsets, or a legion of Chinese competitors? The Zeiss name means a lot to people who are interested in optics, but to the wider smartphone buying world, it means absolutely nothing. So come on then, where's Nokia's USP?

Oooh, and "longer life"? WTF are you on? A sealed battery device with a commodity battery has a circa 30 month lifespan. If it has an absolute premium battery (unlikely in the Android market) you might get 36 months, but to tout "longer life" as an advantage of a sealed handset.... well.

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Re: Same old, same old

Naaa, don't be mean. It is a valid point. My trusty Nokia E6-00 is on its 3rd battery (first replacement was a dud and dead in a short time, so it is rahter the 2nd) and it is much nicer to just pop in a new one than having to resort to DIY-battery-surgery or give the phone a away for service.

People don't care because phones a cheaper now or come with the illusion of cheapness via monthly payments.

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Re: Same old, same old

With the current lineup, the USP is that it's a NOKIA ;) Also, with the 5 and 6, you get very nice design and build at a very decent price -> high style, low price

The 8's HQ audio is also a very, very decent USP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLFtF50y9A

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Re: Same old, same old

Honestly that's a preetty big USP for me, though it'll likely never live up to the N900. Or the N9.

Such a wasted opportunity...

However, since I'm shortly in the market for a new phone, I will likely consider this one.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Same old, same old

Plenty of companies will replace a battery with a genuine OEM replacement for a very reasonable fee.

I just had my Nexus 5 battery replaced by a LG approved service centre for 40£

If you are throwing phones away due to aging battery, you are a mug, and deserve to own an iPhone

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Same old, same old

Nokia should bust out some new Windows phones. They'd probably suck, but nothing sucks more than the complete stranglehold by Google and Apple.

Someone needs to mix it up a bit. There's no reason to read phone reviews now. They're all the same.

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Re: Same old, same old

I cannot even part with the broken carcass of my N9. Such a neat thing, the fabula-design so incredibly polished and clean, even all the accessories spoke the same design language... the things that could have been.

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Re: Same old, same old

Yep. Nokia really screwed the pooch.

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Re: Same old, same old

i had the n900. as you say, the things that could have been

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Re: Same old, same old

Catering to the overwhelming majority of the market who hugely prefer the longer life, stronger construction and thinner profile of a sealed battery hardly makes someone a twat.

Indeed. Especially considering changing a sealed battery is a quick and easy job for anyone with reasonable eyesight (OK a bit harder on waterproof phones) or a quick and cheap service. It would take a genuine twat to discard a phone just because the battery is old.

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Re: Same old, same old

If Nokia busted out some new Windows Phones, they'd just go bust. Not even Microsoft is bothering to pretend that they're at all interested in their own mobile operating system now.

At the moment we are condemned to have Fucking Android, not least because reviewers and tech bloggers of the time seemed to dislike mature secure non-slurpy smartphone OSes which were secure, ran well with relatively little memory or CPU grunt, and could give you a week's battery life because that was old and Android was new and shiny. Even if an alternative smartphone OS was proposed which was compatible with apks (Blackberry, Sailfish), there was always the element of doubt in the review that Fart App 1321 wouldn't run.

Perhaps one day we will get a newer take on the N9's simple swipe interface with Sailfish's under-the-hood improvements and an API compatible with Play Services (Amazon did it, Nokia itself had one for Nokia X). Until then we buy phones from hardware manufacturers that look like they might be able to bring that happy future about, and that's not coming from any Asian manufacturer... Tizen is a disaster, the rest have spent years slapping a re-skinned Android on their devices.

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Bronze badge

Re: Same old, same old

I've still got mine, if it wasn't for the phone bit of it not working I'd still be using it now. Lovely little phone (64GB version).

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Silver badge

Re: Same old, same old

Plenty of companies will replace a battery with a genuine OEM replacement for a very reasonable fee.

On a premium device that sort of deal is probably good value, although most owners will be hankering for the newest shiney by then anyway. But if you're buying a non-premium phone as a "keeper", why would you want to pay £40 to replace a £10 battery every couple of years? That rather undermines the value credentials in my book, although YMMV.

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Re: Same old, same old

You can always get the battery swapped by the manufacturer for a small fee. You can with HTC anyway.

Your mileage may vary for others.

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Re: Same old, same old

"If you are throwing phones away due to ageing battery, you are a mug, and deserve to own an iPhone"

Strangely iPhone batteries are by far the easiest "Non replaceable" batteries I have ever seen, two screws a ribbon cable and a bit of peelable glue.. and you're done.

iPhone 3/4/5/6 battery replacements take around 5 minutes each if your not in a rush, not done a 7 yet but cant imagine that its that difficult.

Compare that to my HTC One M8, Ive had that apart to replace the camera before and now that the battery is fading I can honestly say I'd rather just let it die and but a new one than take it apart again - the battery is at the back under (But taped and glued to) every other component. Just getting the screen out of the case is an undertaking in its own right, four screws, a sucker, brute force and a handful of plastic spludgers its a wonder it didn't snap.

That said, I'd still rather have the HTC - I've had it four years now its stood up to being dropped, stood on, thrown round the gym, frozen overnight in a tent in wales. The back is so scratched an dented it could easilly pass for a decade old and its working perfectly* and the screen is like new.

* other than the battery fade that is to be expected - and the camera failure - but that's because I dropped it it a puddle, still the only thing to break was the camera!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Same old, same old

"... although most owners will be hankering for the newest shiney by then anyway."

No they won't, times have changed and people are wising up finally. Which is the reason why I believe Nokia should of went a different path entirely, maybe even hold off on mobile phones entirely until they could come to the table with more than just... blah. It's blah, we might want Nokia to prevail for many reasons, but this phone is simply blah.

As fat as no market for it, I disagree. It's just another price point to fill, makes sense. Sadly, it's still blah. All these phones do such similar things that even the smallest feature has to be marketed as amazing to mind wash people into believing it. Even using the word 'nice' to describe current 'killer features' is starting to stretch truth.

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Re: Same old, same old

Hey MyBackDoor, who is this "Should of Went geezer"? Are there aristocrats working at Nokia?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Same old, same old

What you mean is you want someone else to buy the crap with does phones, while you buy the superior android and iOS products.

Isn't that a little bit messed up? You want others to suffer with crap products for your benefit... Windows phones died for a reason, they were garbage. Keeping products artificially alive for competition is not only selfish, but itself stifles innovation...

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Re: Same old, same old

"I cannot even part with the broken carcass of my N9. Such a neat thing"

Now witness the upvote...from a fully functional N9!

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Re: Same old, same old

> I just had my Nexus 5 battery replaced by a LG approved service centre for 40£

Mate, you can do that job on a Nexus 5 in a quarter hour with nothing more than a small Philips screwdriver and a guitar plectrum.

I'm not sure of the provenance of my £8 Amazon replacement battery, but it hasn't exploded yet!

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Re: Same old, same old

Is there now room for a third mobile OS, that's perhaps the question? Windows Phone clearly wasn't the answer.

It would be nice if Nokia could find a way to re-adopt their orphan child Sailfish OS (which, as MeeGo, probably stood a reasonable chance of having had the possibility to make some impact back then), or at least maybe pay some sort of child maintenance payment to help it, but, although it is quite a nice OS it is still a little rough around the edges (like early iOS was), and unless and until Jolla introduce a proper paid app store, it will still struggle to move beyond a small niche, sadly.

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Anonymous Coward

Sealed battery but no wireless charging and no waterproofing? Disappointing, really. They so very nearly had my cash. Between them those features are easily worth the relatively minor price bump to one of their competitors.

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I agree. All I can really think about this phone is "meh" and "oh well".

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As a Lumia 920 & 930 owner... wireless charging can jump off a bridge.

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Why does a phone need to be thrown away? Just because its a sealed phone does not mean the battery is unreplaceable. To change a sealed battery for example on an iPhone is relatively straight forward procedure which could be done by any half competent person.

As a side point batteries seem to be higher quality now. I have had my iphone 6s plus for almost two years and have seen little degredation. Battery app shows 89% of original capacity and its been charged most days as i wear it down from 100% to mid 30% most days.

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Try to be a bit more negative, will you?

Since the old HQ audio tech was phenomenal, OZO audio sounds awesome.

Also, for some absurd reason, I actually LIKE having a Nokia phone, so paying more for a few gimmicks from a brand I do not care about is not really that attractive. There might be more people like me.

I concur on the sealed battery issue given the price point.

Speaking of price: I just received a Nokia 5 – splendid! Nobody believes it's just €200.

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Re: Try to be a bit more negative, will you?

The lack of wireless charging is a bit of a let down though. It's a bloody expensive phone. Yes you can pay more, but that doesn't make it cheap.

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Holmes

I wonder if any ms execs have seen this film?

I spit on your grave.

It's great. An innocent girl gets brutally raped and left for dead. Slowly she recovers, only to carefully and meticulously exact her revenge on those who wronged her. In the end, her triumphant comeback is finalised when the evil bastards who did it to her are wiped out completely.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I wonder if any ms execs have seen this film?

Hmmm... I think some former Sendo people would like that film.

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Silver badge

Re: I wonder if any ms execs have seen this film?

Above link leads not to an IMDB entry for the original film, but to a YouTube trailer for the 2010 remake.

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Facepalm

Re: I wonder if any ms execs have seen this film?

The question is, did she sell her soul to the devil in order to gain that revenge?

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Facepalm

Re: I wonder if any ms execs have seen this film?

I suppose some balance regarding how much times have changed is needed. Like the marvellous quote from a Nokia exec that using Android is like peeing in your pants to keep warm.

Lovely, and would make a great tagline on the marketing campaign for this new model.

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Coat

Re: I wonder if any ms execs have seen this film?

Yeah, it's amazing how people will abandon their principles for a suitable incentive, or to save their own skin...

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Anonymous Coward

"[...] but you wonder how many others care about taking split-screen (front and back) images or movies."

The pr0n sector will probably find a use for it.

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Anonymous Coward

To see one's own face while slapping that ass is the future.

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Thumb Up

Made me spit out my tea. Well done.

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Lumia

Please don't talk about those. I consider them the reason why Nokia nearly died, as they were the ones made after the Elopocalypse.

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Re: Lumia

Nokia died because they ran themselves like they were a monopoly. They had 3 different UIs they were paying to develop simultaneously and they doled out the good stuff only to their top of the line phones.

That worked when Nokia was the biggest player in the market, just like it worked for Microsoft when they were the undisputed king, but when the iPhone came out and started eating their lunch they couldn't compete.

Nokia's fall starts before Elop and matches exactly with the release of the iPhone. Yes, the Windows 7.5 phones getting released and then getting an end of support from Microsoft within 6 months didn't help, but they were on borrowed time before they even signed the Microsoft deal.

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Silver badge

Re: Lumia

People talk about how Nokia fumbled projects that would have beaten the iPhone to market, but often neglect to mention how mediocre their mass-market phones were at that time.

After their 6210 era, their colour-screened candy bar phones weren't durable, or as interesting as Sony Ericsson or Samsung's offerings.

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Re: Lumia

They were already dead. Elop was the paramedic sent to administer CPR, but it was too late. Nokia survived hooked up to a machine for a little longer but just like a brain can't survive without oxygen a tech company can't survive without productive, directed R&D.

There are parallels with the demise of Commodore. Hugely succesful tech company with best-selling products neglects to maintain a product pipeline and watches rivals bite its ankles, failing to appreciate that the ankle biting is a hobbling tactic to allow for easier consumption of the whole.

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Re: Lumia

Theres only one answer to that statement

N95

The best symbian cady bar Nokia ever made far superior to any S.E or Samsung offering at the time.,

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Pint

Re: Lumia

Chris suggested, "...Nokia died because [in part] they had 3 different UIs..."

Back then, it shouldn't have been that expensive to have some children bang out a new UI over the weekend.

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Re: Lumia

> The best symbian cady bar Nokia ever made far superior to any S.E or Samsung offering at the time.,

The N95 was a slider not a candy bar, and was not a mainstream model due to its high price and (by the standards of just phones at the time) large size.

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Updates

I'm stull using my old HTC One. The only thing I miss is android updates. One of these days I might get around to jailbreaking it, but probably not.

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Non-software buttons. Ew.

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FAIL

No wireless charging? No sale.

20 years ago I bought a TiVo Series 1 (still have it, in daily use) and tried to explain to people the convenience of HDD recording, the typical response was "Why would I want that when I can just put a tape in my machine?" It only took them another 5-10 years until Sky (I'm in the UK, after stabbing TiVo in the back) "invented" HDD recording and for the penny to finally drop among the masses.

Similarly, a lot of people just don't "get" wireless charging, but it really is so much more convenient and puts an end to "battery angst". Once you've tried it, why would you want to go back to fumbling around with USB connectors?

And for that reason, any device that can't be bothered to include the £2 coil for a wireless charging receiver loses my entire business/interest. Which is a shame, as the Nokia device is quite attractive in all other respects.

A replaceable battery would also have been nice, but I can understand from a design point of view that that is a trickier proposition.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No wireless charging? No sale.

I was also a series 1 Tivo owner and it blew the socks off anything around at the time and for a long time afterwards.. Virgin Media wanted an exclusive I believe with Tivo so those who'd paid for a lifetime subscription were just dumped. Annoyingly my box died shortly after this happened and it wasn't something I could fix with a new hard drive despite my attempts. I know there is a community effort if your box still functions to make it work with a broadband connection but mine really was dead. I haven't forgotten or forgiven Virgin Media for this.

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Re: No wireless charging? No sale.

I was in total agreement with wireless charging...

Right up until my Lumia 950 XL had a USB-C port. As it can go in any way round you want, and it has fast charging I no longer bother with wireless charging.

To be fair, if I still had my previous car (where I refused to pay > £500 for inbuilt Sat Nav) then I would still need to use a holder in the car to show my phone's display for it's Sat Nav.... my holder did wireless charging which was amazing in the car and something I'd still demand if the current car didn't already have Sat Nav built in.

The advent of fast charging where wireless charging is still a trickle plus having the ability to insert a USB-C cable in without looking at the port has me thinking that wireless charging may end up similar to 3D TV - not a bad idea but the world has moved on.

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