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Official: Windows for Workstations returns in Fall Creators Update

4 CPU's - That's a lot!

The Linux kernel can handle 4096 CPU's and is much better for workstation use all round.

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

Windows kernel can handle a lot more too. And I'm sure you realize it is 4 socket not 4 cpu.

Though hard for me to imagine if you needed ao many sockets and TBs of memory just get the server version of the OS. The cost of the software will be a rounding error on such a system anyway.

Just checked redhat workstation and it seems to top out at 2 sockets. That would be perhaps the closest comparable product in the linux world.

(Linux user on server+desktop+laptop mostly debian since 1996)

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

That might be an artificial limit to the 'as supplied' Kernel.

Don't forget that you have full access to the Kernel sources (and is a simple yum install away) and there is nothing to stop you building a custom kernel. :) :) :)

I'm waiting (not!) for MS to implement a per core subscription fee for Windows 10. HT would naturally be counted as a full core by the beancounters. I'm sure it is there somewhere in their plans.

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

Windows Server is LTS which means no mail, store, Ubuntu, etc...

This will be nice

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LDS
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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

It would be quite difficult to cram 4096 CPU inside the usual workstation case, power and cool them all. Even four socket motherboards are not so common, and it's already high-end hardware for single boxes you can put under your desk.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

" and is much better for workstation use all round."

Assuming you don't need to run most common business applications of course.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

The current version of Windows server supports 24TB / 512 logical processors. That's an arbitrary limit based on available hardware, not a scalability one...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

"The Linux kernel"

Meanwhile on boxes we can actually buy, the current version of Windows does tend to scale better than Linux for many common uses:

https://cloudbase.it/openstack-newton-benchmarking-part-5/

www.rootusers.com/linux-vs-windows-web-server-benchmarks/

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

> it is 4 socket not 4 cpu.

Yes very interesting, just thinking about those new Xeon E7's especially the one with 24 cores and threading, giving as far as old versions of Windows are concerned 48 cpu's per physical socket.

However, I suspect just as with XP x64, most workstations will be 2 socket Xeon configurations.

>... just get the server version of the OS.

I think this version is simply reproducing what MS did for XP x64: take the Standard edition of Server - hence the 4 cpu/socket limit and strip out the server functions and add in some of the desktop tools and accessories not normally shipped with the server version.

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

Question is what kind of "common business applications" the typical workstation user will run.

I doubt these guys need Excel or Powerpoint for their tasks.

/Zane

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

"I doubt these guys need Excel "

In say trading environments Excel often needs to do significant number and data crunching...

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

> Don't forget that you have full access to the Kernel sources (and is a simple yum install away) and there is nothing to stop you building a custom kernel. :) :) :)

Nothing, except the fact that RH won't support you if it breaks.

if you're in a RH environment you're there for the support. _EVERYTHING_ on a redhat system is RH customsed, including the version numbers, which bear almost no relationship to what XYZ package version might have backported to it from XYN+nn

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Re: 4 CPU's - That's a lot!

"In say trading environments Excel often needs to do significant number and data crunching..."

The moment you try to do that with Excel, you're using the wrong tool.

That doesn't stop people doing it, but i've seen large enterprises using Excel for their accounting system and not noticing $50million discrepencies as a result.

Excuse for not using a proper accounting system? "It costs too much and our developers have been working on this for years"

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But as a Play Station...

Still OK for running Candy Crush, I hope?

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Re: But as a Play Station...

Better yet: It runs Crysis 3 ... NATIVELY!

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Re: But as a Play Station...

"Still OK for running Candy Crush, I hope?"

I'm having hard a time running solitaire without lag.

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Re: But as a Play Station...

And all the start menu and in the crApps ads can now be assigned to its own CPU core exclusively. All this for best user experience. Thank you MS (for listening to/spoofing our feedback).

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MJI
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Happy

Re: But as a Play Station...

Take the space out and play Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But as a Play Station...

I'm betting the start menu still lags or fails to appear sometimes though...

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What about auto-updates?

That's the real question here. A workstation that hangs up and/or reboots for updates regularly is useless. So they can't expect many sales if they keep the mandatory update schedule.

But on the other hand, if the mandatory updates are lifted, then people and businesses may start to use this version for everything... depending on the price.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

A workstation computer that hangs up and/or reboots for updates regularly is useless.

FTFY

P.S. I am a bit ornery today, sind the blessed W10 decided to install a totally unwanted "feature update" on my work laptop yesterday night, and haven't managed to finish so far. God knows when it will, and how much damage will it do by the time it's done.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"A workstation that hangs up and/or reboots for updates regularly is useless" Is that what you see or what you're told happens? I have half a dozen Windows 10 PCs and none - yes none - do this.

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Gimp

Re: What about auto-updates?

"I have half a dozen Windows 10 PCs and none - yes none - do this."

You really should update your Windows boxes regularly, you know.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

On an admittedly older laptop connectivity grinds to a halt when Windows 10 decides to update. That's why the first thing l ended up checking for updates as so as I boot up.

Still doesn't get rid of the problem of frequent connectivity slowdowns which can only be resolved by a reboot

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

>What about auto-updates?

Windows update is the biggest pile of shit out there. I have dual boot with Linux and I'm sick to death of every time I switch to Windows is a bloody circle going round saying getting ready with updates then when I shut down yet again it's bloody well doing something with updates. FFS Microsoft can't you look how Linux does it without all the tedious boot and shutdown delays, It's like having to drive on the road at 4mph with a bloke stood in front of you carrying a red flag.

Trying to restart a nuclear rector after Xenon poisoning is faster.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

The Home versions of Windows 10 handle updates completely different to the Professional versions. The home versions force updates on users, which I believe is the correct approach (everyone I know who runs Windows but isn't an IT professional never lets their PCs update if given the choice).

The scenario you describe should not occur in a business.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

The Home versions of Windows 10 handle updates completely different to the Professional versions. The home versions force updates on users, ... everyone I know who runs Windows but isn't an IT professional never lets their PCs update if given the choice

So does the Pro. The only concession it makes is that it allows you not to join the involuntary beta-testing program by "deferring" the "feature upgrades". By "up to a several months". Boo-hoo.

You still can't selectively block the updates. You still are forced to reboot and reboot and reboot - at the times you can only partially influence. It will still ignore many choices made through GPE. It will still keep disabling software it considers incompatible. It will still keep reinstalling stuff from the windows store you have explicitly removed. And sooner or later, it will still force those "feature updates" on you - even if you do not want or need any new stinking features, as your computer is already doing what you want the way you want it.

As far as people resisting Windows updates - ask yourself: why is that? Perhaps these people were burned by an update gone awry before, and are now more afraid of the O/S vendor than of viruses and ransomware. That's not a pretty thought, is it?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

Not all of us are obviously as adept as 'fixing' Windows 10 (or using WSUS...) as you are.

Why not help us instead of appearing be a knowit all. How did you get your systems to NOT update like the rest of us are experiencing on a regular basis. I'm sure you would get more upvotes than downvotes it you did...

All you needed to appear a bit less of a 'smug git' with your post was to add

YMMV

to your post.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 'The Home Office' Versions of Windows 10...

"The Home versions of Windows 10 handle updates completely different to the Professional versions."

Funny, I read that as:

'The Home Office' versions of Windows 10 handle updates completely different to the Professional versions. (I'm sure there is some truth in this too).

I think Amber Rudd's clueless vision of an lovely happy Authoritarian State is starting to get to me.

"Welcome to Britains' Open Prison,

Best Amber"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

That's essentially why I switched to Mac OSX.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

Windows 10 updates about once per month, so for my work PC, that's about one day out of twenty workdays. Mine's a fairly low/middle spec (i5-4440, 12GB RAM, SSD etc) and it seems to add about 20s onto the boot time (dunno about shutdown, I'm on my way out the door by then).

An extra twenty seconds per month, is less than I spend making tea per day.

Am I just being very forgiving, or does everyone else have much worse problems?

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Re: What about auto-updates?

Use DoNotSpy10 or O&O ShutUp10 to disable the Microsoft automatic updates and spyware malware crap.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

I don't even notice Win 10 updates happening, I assume they do since it claims to be up to date when I check.

But Visual Studio on the other hand takes forever. I don't know how an application update can run for hours. I do multi-GB updates to Unity and Unreal that are done in 5 minutes, including the download.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

we have far, far more issues on our site updating the 70 or so Red Hat boxes compared to the 230 Windows boxes.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"i5-4440, 12GB RAM, SSD etc"

Just what sort of business sector do you work in if you think that's a low/mid-spec PC???

Since having W10 foisted on us at work here, there have been several instances where I've switched my PC on in the morning, and half an hour later it's still not finished chuntering through whatever the hell it's decided to update this time...

And random reboots, oh yes, those too. Despite having my active hours set such that Windows shouldn't be doing anything during the times when I'm in the office, I recently left the PC running a data capture session while I popped out to grab some lunch. Half an hour later I got back to the office to find the bloody thing had done an update & reboot about 5 minutes after I walked out the door. There were a few barely concealed expletives hurled in the direction of the W10 development team at that point.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

"we have far, far more issues on our site updating the 70 or so Red Hat boxes compared to the 230 Windows boxes."

Yes linux requires administrators who can do more than just click buttons but since you bought redhat perhaps they can talk your "admin" through it.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"An extra twenty seconds per month, is less than I spend making tea per day.

Am I just being very forgiving, or does everyone else have much worse problems?"

The Gitling gave his mother a Le Novo X1 Carbon Wednesday and a few hours ago I started setting it up for her. Decided to stick with w10 Pro since the only spare w7 licence is 32 bit Home. The Gitling had already installed Classic Shell so installed Office 2010. W10 decided to update itself immediately the Office install finished and the machine hanged. Restarting, it took ~10 minutes, rather more than 20 seconds to finish the update.

Seems like a nice machine. If it was mine it would definitely be freshly Minted.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"Is that what you see or what you're told happens?"

I was told it happened by the OP who saw it. Does that answer your question?

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"Trying to restart a nuclear rector"

Isn't that a vicarious experience?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

>Isn't that a vicarious experience?

Ah speel chuckers, the antithesis of proof reading. Thank the Lord it didn't put rectum in there instead.

Amen

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"Isn't that a vicarious experience?"
Friend who was an English teacher at a secondary school reported having a very bad day with a very bored and listless class. "Haven't any of you had a vicarious experience with a novel?" he asked. Girl at the back said: "No. But I once had a very novel experience with the vicar!"

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Mushroom

Re: What about auto-updates?

As far as people resisting Windows updates - ask yourself: why is that? Perhaps these people were burned by an update gone awry before, and are now more afraid of the O/S vendor than of viruses and ransomware. That's not a pretty thought, is it?

How do I upvote something multiple times? When my Mac or my Linuxes boxes have updates, I never hesitate. Windows updates scare the crap out of me. We had an entire set of Lenovo "Made for Windows 10" laptops go belly up when Microsoft release their stupid Anniversary Update. All the users lost at least half a day trying to recover their machines, which for most of them involved rolling back the update. One user's laptop needed to be reimaged completely. Thanks to that little episode, I have outright banned Windows 10 at our workplace. I am going out of my way to find non-Win10 boxes and will continue to do so until I have no other choice. At which point I'm going to start calling Microsoft support frequently and demanding free support.

*I* am the sysadmin here. *I* am responsible for these machines, that means *I demand* control of them. If Microsoft wants to control my computers, then they damn well have to take responsibility for them too. They don't get to have their cake and eat it too.

At this point I use Windows 10 for exactly one purpose: To run a gaming laptop, because that's all Windows 10 is good for. Any time I need to do real work, I switch to a Mac or Linux box.

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Re: What about auto-updates?

At work, we were in a meeting on Skype business with people presenting and all the windows 10 machines started rebooting one by one with people getting kicked out of the meeting. There was no warning other that "Windows is rebooting now" and no choice. The Windows 7 users were spared. It took about two hours before all the machines were done "finishing updates".

Updates - Home, Pro, Enterprise whatever - ought to be done when the user is idle, and also should complete whatever "finishing updates" step it needs to do as well. The worst bit on my Windows 10 Pro machine at home is to come back to my machine looking to do something quickly, only to find the unwelcome "finishing updates" screen. No update is so critical that it can take Microsoft a month to develop but requires immediate deployment no matter what.

Also Windows 10 is releasing stuff half done and well before their prime, meaning it has to update more frequently as updates are fixing bugs while introducing new ones at the same time. This is very visible to end users. This is being sold off as a "feature" of Windows 10. The comment earlier about Home users refusing updates shows this is not well received.

My Macbook Pro in three years in comparison has done it's best to restore things post update, and is intelligent enough to not do this while I typically work on it, and certainly "finishes" it without being an intrusion. I never come back to the machine telling me "f*** you user, I'm doing shit"

What other tools you use in life getting away with this kind of "Finishing can't use me now" shit when you reach out to use them..

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Re: What about auto-updates?

"At work, we were in a meeting on Skype business with people presenting and all the windows 10 machines started rebooting one by one with people getting kicked out of the meeting. "

In an enterprise / work situation that's fully controllable. Blame your IT team.

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N2

Re: What about auto-updates?

Trying to restart a nuclear rector after Xenon poisoning is faster.

Waiting 35 hours for burnout is much quicker

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Re: What about auto-updates?

So start with a BS implementation, and give enterprise knobs to make it less shit, is what we can look forward to from Windows 10?

That's like someone leaving a pile of shit on your front door, with a free toilet paper roll.... Hey you didnt use the paper, so don't blame the poo for stinking!

The point is not to reboot when the user is active to begin with.. A good enterprise product shouldn't need IT teams to have to use the free toilet roll....

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FAIL

Re: What about auto-updates?

I don't know how an application update can run for hours...

The application update takes around 15 minutes - 5 minutes to download, 10 minutes to get through decade-old hoary hacked up NTFS code; the rest of the time is spent by Windows sweeping through every attached disk uploading all files it finds to Microsoft servers (aka 'telemetry'). This is for your own good. It improves your experience. You can always watch the targeted ads in Explorer whilst you wait.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about auto-updates?

Well, I have dev system, Windows 10 that starts once a week to do stuff (builds some crap) ... sadly, every now and then, it would fail because it installed updates and then simply rebooted ... solution ? Start it the day before and leave it running overnight ... I know, should have asked for server for this ... I had asked for Windows 7 and they gave me 10 ....

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Re: What about auto-updates?

The scenario you describe should not occur in a business.

Totally agree, but it does!

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Re: What about auto-updates?

That's what Microsoft want though. Cede control of your domain to them, and they will host it, and the desktops, in Azure.

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