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70% of Windows 10 users are totally happy with our big telemetry slurp, beams Microsoft

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Yes!

Another two-minute hate on MSFT! You are spoiling us Mr El Reg.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Yes!

I think it will be rather longer than 2 minutes.

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Re: Yes!

Well they are shit and carry out bad practices, so only fair.

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JLV
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Happy

Re: Yes!

Another _brilliant_ rebuttal by JJC that will do much to further his, and Win 10's, credibility.

Soooo articulate n insightful.

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Anonymous Coward

Just one question Microsoft...

How the fcuk can you have a "Privacy portal" that requires access via the web, is stored on Microsoft servers, accessed via a "linked" Microsoft Account to change/view it's settings. Can't people see there is a second way of indirectly routing grey data here, back to Microsoft.

Are the UK regulators ICO just plain stupid, or being paid to be plain stupid?

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Coat

Re: Yes!

I think it will be rather longer than 2 minutes.
In my case it's been over 30 years now.

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Re: Just one question Microsoft...

>>Are the UK regulators ICO just plain stupid, or being paid to be plain stupid?

The UK privacy regulator has always been feeble and showed little interest in actually protecting individual privacy.

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No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

The first thing I did with my ASUS laptop - factory loaded with WIN 10 - was to format, wipe, and repartition the hard drive. Debian 9.1 works just fine - I send no data to anyone unless I explicitly decide to, and there is no fee or registration requirement.

Anyone who bows to the illegal monopoly is a fool, and makes the world less safe for us all.

David Roknich

"The future of radio belongs to us"

Indyradio.info

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"Anyone who bows to the illegal monopoly is a fool, and makes the world less safe for us all."

Hear, hear! Too bad that so many seem to be so blinkered that they can only see one monopoly...

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

This likely makes little difference to them since you still paid for a Windows licence.

Should have gone to System76

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Where would the comments section on a Windows news story be without someone taking the time to tell everyone that they use Linux? It's traditional.

Well done. Have a biscuit.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

At least it was Debian not that flavour of the month distro, whatever it's called.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"Too bad that so many seem to be so blinkered that they can only see one monopoly."

Are you implying multiple monopolies?

ROFLMAO

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"Should have gone to System76"

For those of us in the UK this seems rather a long way to go.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"Where would the comments section on a Windows news story be without someone taking the time to tell everyone that they use Linux?"

Don't you find it just a touch ironic that Microsoft not only collect money for the licence want ongoing payments in data collection and displaying advertising whilst Linux distros don't demand either and yet it's the latter you implicitly criticise?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"The first thing I did with my ASUS laptop - factory loaded with WIN 10 - was to format, wipe, and repartition the hard drive"

Many of us want to run all the latest games and / or an Office suite that actually works though so Windows 10 is then a requirement.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"not that flavour of the month distro, whatever it's called."

Well I'm guessing the version of Ubuntu in the Windows 10 Store is now the worlds most popular desktop Linux version....

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Childcatcher

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"This likely makes little difference to them since you still paid for a Windows licence."

I'm not sure that I agree with this where Windows 10 is concerned.. MS has made no secret that they want to move to the OS as a service and along with that Office. The service model requires renewable subscriptions to supply revenue to MS.

If the user removes windows 10 and replaces it with something else, then MS loses the projected revenue from the services over the life of the product. This cost will be significantly more over the life of the product than it was with previous versions of windows products, where the initial purchase price was all the MS received. - MS is moving from product space to services company.

So in the long run, I think it does matter to MS and people should remove Windows 10, if one has to get it in the first place. The cost savings over the long run will be significant - not to mention less privacy issues with alternatives.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

I'd love to but as a semi-pro photographer I need Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom with the now unsupported Nik filters. When you get those running perfectly on Linux Mint, I'm all ears. And no, don't even mention GIMP. Yes, it's bloody good but it won't cut it with what I need to do. So Windows or Mac is my only choice for that stuff. My dayjob, I'm more than happy to use my Linux Mint box.

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This post has been deleted by its author

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

If they want to use the OS as a data collecting and advertising platform then they should make the OS free. That's the way it happens in most other areas but no, not MS. They want to charge you for the OS, collect all sorts of data about your usage and then use it to push targeted ads at you amongst other things.

Free OS with advertising and telemetry, or a paid for OS with all the crap removed.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"I'd love to but as a semi-pro photographer I need Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom with the now unsupported Nik filters."

Darktable - www.darktable.org for Linux & Mac

I've used it for years for my Canon 550D & 6D, my cousin, a retired industrial photographer, is very impressed and so is his son ( a very well-known sports photographer)

RawTherapee also gets good reviews although I've not used it personally.

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Re: I need Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom

I am not sure there is anything other than GIMP to replace Photoshop atm. - but there are FOSS alternatives worth looking at, a place to start looking is FOSSPhotography on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/FOSSPhotography/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"...Linux distros don't demand either and yet it's the latter you implicitly criticise?"

No he didn't. You might want to re-read his comment. He didn't criticise Linux.

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Anonymous Coward

'Darktable'...

You will lose all processing done in Lightroom, it won't run the plug-ins, the camera and lenses profiles are made by who knows whom.

Plus my hardware calibrated monitors don't support Linux, nor my photo printers have drivers for Linux. Again, drivers made by who knows whom are a no-no for high quality printing.

If you don't like Windows 10, macOS is the true alternative. All the tools are available, and fully supported. No need to play with an house of cards of tools with very different degrees of quality, if available.

I guess if MS stubbornly keeps on slurping, Apple will see more and more people turning to its products again, as soon it understands it needs very good hardware beyond the iPhone.

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Re: "Should have gone to System76"

UK options for Linux machines are Entroware (www.entroware.com - offer Ubuntu /MATE, for example, pre-installed) and Novatech (www.novatech.co.uk - offer OS-free laptops).

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"they can only see one monopoly..."

See title - any further comment needed?

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Linux

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Hi David. I'm curious. Why did you buy a laptop with Win 10 pre-loaded, when there are bare machines available out there? I quite understand your wanting to use Linux, but why pay the Microsoft tax on the way there?

That would stick in my throat.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"MS has made no secret that they want to move to the OS as a service"

There will likely always be a free or minimal cost version though where they make money from the Windows Store.

People seem to view "Windows as a service" as a bad thing, but imo It's actually a better model for consumers to pay via a rental model, rather than pay a lump of cash up front for each Windows version. Stop using Windows? Sell your PC? You stop paying Microsoft....your choice. So surely it's ideal for those that wish to use Linux instead?

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

The problem here is that as much as I like Linux, the software is not there and even if there is software to do a task, it is not always that good.

Blender is great if you are into 3D and there are some good audio software, but sadly Linux lacks on Video editing.

I do have Linux on my laptop and it is fine for what I use that for.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"but sadly Linux lacks on Video editing."

kdenlive

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

MS is moving from product space to services company.

Some call it "services"... I call it blackmail: "Pay up or your data goes away.". along with: "Nice bunch of applications you have there... pity if they won't work anymore."

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Charging for the OS versus selling your personal info

Why choose one strategy when you can have them both? That's the advantage of having a near monopoly in the PC OS market, you don't have to worry about competition. They even have a way to solve the problem of the PC's lengthening replacement cycle by making it subscription based.

That way they can move to charging $0 for the OS up front to better compete in case Chrome OS ever gets any traction at all, while insuring they make a lot more money if someone keeps running that PC for 10+ years as is becoming all too common for their liking these days.

That's what happens when Google catches them flat footed on search, something they didn't think was important until Google showed them how much money that could make off the data collection and advertising, which they tried too late to ape. And when Apple catches them flat footed by showing them how to make smartphones a mass market product everyone wants, instead of being limited to geeks and PHBs like they were in the Windows Mobile days.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

If you don't like what's offered for free, you're perfectly within your rights to go on paying a single company to 'safeguard' ALL of your data.

Or you could stop expecting the community to service your niche use case for free and pay to for features that you need to run your business on. Talking to people about free software is like dealing with primary school children sometimes. [1]

FFS, how many times do we need to say it. Free, as in speech. Not beer.

[1] - No. I'm not going near the "open-source" weasel words.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"Why did you buy a laptop with Win 10 pre-loaded, when there are bare machines available out there? I quite understand your wanting to use Linux, but why pay the Microsoft tax on the way there?"

The crapware that comes on nearly all new PCs offsets the Microsoft tax and (at least in one case) partially subsidizes the cost of the hardware.

Dell responded to customer demand and started releasing one of its laptops pre-configured with one of the Linux flavors some years ago. The customers were delighted, but only until they saw that the Linux-equipped model cost more, not less, than the standard Windows version. Why, the potential buyers demanded to know, was the version without the "MS tax" more expensive than the one with the tax?

Dell's explanation was that the Linux version was "clean," and thus Dell was not getting paid by every crapware manufacturer out there. Those trial versions of crap you don't want don't just appear there at random; they're put there because someone paid Dell to put them there. According to Dell, the sum total of all of the money they receive for each PC's worth of crapware more than covers the cost of the Windows license.

Linux users get the best deal on a crapware-laden PC (as compared to one sold with no OS). They get the benefit of the price subsidy, but they don't have to actually deal with the crapware, as it gets immediately wiped. Setting Linux up on such a machine is no harder than on one offered bare.

Windows users are the ones who have to deal with trying to uninstall all that crap, hoping that it actually uninstalls cleanly and leaves the system running smoothly (or else having to wipe and install Windows cleanly, which some people do).

In addition, if you ever want to sell the PC, having the Windows license can be a benefit; your buyer is more likely to be a Windows user than a Linux one.

The selection of machines available bare is also extremely limited compared to those with Windows-- and given the poor direction laptop design has taken lately (as I see it), just being able to find one model I am completely happy with would be a miracle, let alone finding one that I am happy with AND that is offered bare.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"People seem to view "Windows as a service" as a bad thing, but imo It's actually a better model for consumers to pay via a rental model, rather than pay a lump of cash up front for each Windows version."

Well, that would be how it is if "Windows as a service" were actually a service, but for consumers, it's not, and MS has claimed that it never will be for consumers (though we know how reliable Microsoft's promises can be). Even though consumers have been told for two years that Windows is now a service, It's still a pay-once, use-forever deal, only now Microsoft uses the consumer as a beta tester, releasing largely untested updates twice a year to the consumer market, using the forced update system to ensure that the consumers get the version MS wants them to test, and using the non-optional telemetry to collect the testing data from the user.

MS sets the parameters for the beta testing by altering settings as it sees fit, installing whatever drivers it wants, and installing or removing whatever software it wishes. You're a beta tester, home user; did you really expect a full-featured, unrestricted, tested product to be released under the new beta program? Did you forget about your primary purpose, your obligation to provide Microsoft with the test data they require?

None of that implies that Windows is now a service to the consumer. None of that even touches on what defines "software as a service." The subscription model of which you type is the real definition of "software as a service," and maybe MS is trying to get there in the consumer market despite their protestations, but until they do, it's still a product, same as it always was... it's just a really crappy one now.

Perhaps what MS means by "Windows as a service" is that a service is being provided by the end users to Microsoft. Then it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

You mean you're supposed to pay for Windows 10? Funny, I got my copy free simply by saying I needed special adaptive software for my disability. My disability? I'm a left-handed, over six feet tall, Gaelo-German protestant, pragmatic to liberal, compassionate married male living in the USA. Oh, I'm also legally blind in one eye.

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Re: 'Darktable'...

I guess if MS stubbornly keeps on slurping, Apple will see more and more people turning to its products again

I did, at least partially. I just got sick of the amount of time and effort I spent trying to protect my privacy from my computer and my phone.

How many times have we heard: "if you're not paying for it, you are the product?" Windows and Android are not free, but they are subsidized by ad revenues and user-data collection. I came to view the "Apple tax" as declining that subsidy -- essentially, paying extra for a modicum of control over my personal data.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Indeedy. New PC purchasing process...

1. buy PC

2. swap out SDD/HDD for a blank SSD or hybrid

3. fix brain-dead UEFI defaults

4. install Linux Mint (and donate $)

5. install commercial WINE version for better gaming support

6. install Windows <10 VM for "those special cases" (ie: corporate teleworking).

7. shelve original drive in case you need a warranty claim.

Net number of times need to worry about the "telemetry" == 0.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

but sadly Linux lacks on Video editing.

Take a long look at this article

theregister.co.uk/2015/12/26/linux_video_editors

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Why Linux machines are tiny percentage of PCs, the percentage of Windows user that stumbled (likely by mistake or MS coercion) into the Store is just as small. Not all of these lost souls "bought" Linux (to register in statistics) - it's simply unlikely that anyone that cared for Linux went for the trouble of getting Windows PC, signing up for MS account and shopping at their dingy Store.

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@fidodogbreath - "Windows and Android are not free"

Windows isn't, but Android is. You pay for the Android phone, but you don't pay for Android and neither does the OEM. At least not in dollars - as you point out, you are paying for it with your personal data.

If Windows really goes to a subscription model then I wouldn't be surprised to see it become free as well. Free to acquire, but you have to pay a yearly fee to keep it running (or more likely, to prevent pissing off customers, if you don't pay still run in some sort of degraded fashion that disables some functionality or limits performance)

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Linux

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

@Not That Andrew

"At least it was DebianDevuan not that flavour of the month distro, whatever it's called."

FTFY: Debian == Systemd

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Did you return the unused license to Microsoft as per their shrinkwrap agreement and get a refund?

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Coat

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Hmm, good idea.

Wonder what disability support I can get for being ginger, I imagine it's pretty good.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

Unfortunately for those of us that partake in the pastime known as "gaming" the pengiuns lagging behind in driver and software support. should they catch up i'll happily swap teams and cop an earful for "making the darn computer more complicated"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

> Dell responded to customer demand and started releasing one of its laptops pre-configured with one of the Linux flavors some years ago. The customers were delighted, but only until they saw that the Linux-equipped model cost more, not less, than the standard Windows version.

Interesting. I buy Dell OptiPlex desktops many dozens at a time, directly from Dell with Ubuntu instead of Windows. Typically shaves about 10% off the order cost. And yes, we use Ubuntu on them in production.

It's sad that most corporates pay for Windows included with their new PCs, then pay for it again under their enterprise license agreements.

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

I'm in England and I bought from pcspecialist.co.uk and installed Ubuntu.

System76 is apparently very good, though the prices are eye watering

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Re: No need to change the default settings! Erase all of WIN 10

"I'm in England and I bought from pcspecialist.co.uk and installed Ubuntu."

I'm typing this on one of their i7 laptops - installed OpenSUSE 13.2 about 3 years ago with no issues.

Just ordered a simpler machine from nimbusoft - https://nimbusoft.com/ which comes with a choice of installed Linux - we'll see what they are like.

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Meh

Re: I need Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom

"I am not sure there is anything other than GIMP to replace Photoshop "

GIMP is not even close to being a replacement for photoshop.

yes, there are alternatives to lightroom and photoshop but nothing integrates with my website or social media channels as well as lightroom. I can publish directly from LIghtroom into my portfolio, dropbox, facebook, instagram, twitter, I don't need to create multiple jpeg copies of any given image, I simply publish the raw files using lightroom, they are converted to the correct format on the fly.

This is such a huge advantage over everything else. all my images are contained within a single environment and greatly simplfies my workflow.

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