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Jodie Who-ttaker? The Doctor is in

Sorry, but ...

There are only two Doctors of note ... Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker. All others pale into insignificance.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

Cue riff based on MPFC Spanish Inquisition "Our Chief Weapons" bit.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sorry, but ...

Well, as someone born in the 70's, I first remember Tom Baker as the Doctor, but you know what, I've enjoyed every incarnation of the Doctor, even when the scripting has been weak and the plot a bit poor. What I really believe that the show needs is to keep the actress/actor for a bit longer than happens at the moment, so that the focus can be on telling some in depth stories rather than focusing on the arc leading to the current doctor's regeneration. (Although admittedly, events leading to a regeneration are a story...)

Then again, no self respecting actor/actress wants to be stuck with attendances at sci-fi conventions as their only source of income if they get well and truly typecast.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sorry, but ...

>There are only two Doctors of note ... Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker. All others pale into insignificance.

Christopher Eccleston was the best of the new doctors but it was downhill from then on in.

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Coffee/keyboard

It fits.

Comments about Jodie Whittaker are hilarious. Considering the story is about a Time Lord, the idiocy being spewed is from the 18th century.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

Never really understood why people rate Pertwee so highly. I love all the Docs, generally pretty equally, but if measured purely on acting chops he's actually quite a way down my personal list. Quite a way indeed. Others - rather a lot of others - rate higher by actually being better actors.

Of course, TB will always be #1, no matter how good anyone else is.... ;-)

Can open, worms escaping...

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Re: Sorry, but ...

"Can open, worms escaping..."

Maggots surely?

For many of us Jon was our first Doctor so will always rate highly, but I agree all of the incarnations have brought something to the party. My wife has vowed never to watch it again, I will because very occasionally there is a good episode and hopefully this will still happen.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

"There are only two Doctors of note ... Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker. All others pale into insignificance."

I don't think that there is or ever can be a 'best' Doctor.

Believe it or not, Doctor Who was a very serious programme when it first started and William Hartnell was the perfect first Doctor, irritable, intolerant and impatient. You didn't like him but you respected and feared him.

Tom Baker's Doctor, on the other hand, was relaxed, affable, whimsical and very likeable. Humour, something not really present with the earlier Doctors, began to feature.

In hindsight, Jon Pertwee's Doctor, along with Patrick Troughton's, turned out to be somewhat transitional characters.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

I've always thought the best Doctor was the one you watched between the ages of 7 and 10 (which in my case was Pertwee). This also means that you can make a reasonable guess at someone's age from their best Doctor. For example if Davison was "your" Doctor you were probably born around 1976, give or take 2 years either side.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

If you are just a few years older than me - that would make them the ones you got used to as a kid.

My Dad could never get used to any other than William Hartnell - the Doctor should be a fusty old gentleman in his view and he never could get past that.

I slightly remember Tom Baker (I do recall my fist crush on both Leela (skimpy outfit at 7O'clock and Romana - aaah!)

I'm no firmly my Dad's age when I found out about his Doctor prejudice - and I feel the same way about a woman in the role.

Mind you - I don't think I've seen Dr Who since Capaldi took over - It's not just age or sex prejudice you have to get over these days - it's recent high-profile roles of the top-names they're getting to fill the role of late - not that Peter Davidson and the like were unknowns, but...

Hum, to have the clear unfettered unexpectations of childhood again....

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Re: Sorry, but ...

"What I really believe that the show needs is to keep the actress/actor for a bit longer than happens at the moment,"

It's never been more than a couple of seasons - Pertwee 5 seasons - Tom Baker 7 season - the rest all 3 apart from Colin Baker with only 2 (at least according to my collection).

It's probably why a lot of people remember Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker the best - a) the probably average age bracket (at least on elreg) and b) two long innings in a row.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

"If Davison was "your" Doctor you were probably born around 1976, give or take 2 years either side."

Either I was a late bloomer or you are off by a year or two more - I was born '72 yet I remember Davison more strongly than Baker - and I actually liked Sylvester McCoy a lot more than Davison.

Romana in Paris schoolgirl outfit I do remember though - but not the plot of the episode much at all until a re-watch decades later - guessed in the first few minutes it was a Douglas Adams script without seeing the credits - it just seemed a familiar plot.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sorry, but ...

"between the ages of 7 and 10"

I was 6 when William Hartnell started (I can still remember seeing the first episode) but my favourite is still Tom Baker and I was 17 when he took over. He really livened up the show after the slightly dull Pertwee years.

I did quite like Patrick Troughton though, so maybe your theory holds some water.

All of the Doctors in the reboot have been excellent but David Tennant stands out. Hopefully Jodie Whittaker will continue the good work.

Caveat: I was out of the country during the Davidson/Baker/McCoy years and so never saw them. Might have been fantastic for all I know.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

>I do recall my fist crush on both Leela (skimpy outfit at 7O'clock and Romana

Ouch, I hope you recovered

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Re: Sorry, but ...

I think the memory of your "favorite" Dr Who is colored in no small amount by the ensemble cast chemistry, the situations (as opposed to scripts) that they find themselves mired in and the general tone of the show.

I loved most of the early doctors *when I first saw them* but they don't often wear well when viewed today (for me). I found Ian Chesterton to be violent to the point of sociopathy - and him a teacher too! - when some of the first shows were recently rebroadcast. I had remembered him much more fondly.

Troughton was fun for the most part, though I found his obsession with the recorder to be "too much".

Pertwee had the advantage (for me) of being an actor I loved in other roles - The Navy Lark springs to mind - but was saddled with the at the time infuriating lack of a working time machine and a surfeit of what I call "70s Stupids" - special effects and script "bits" that were supposed to be cool but were cringe-inducing in their naffness. Venusian Karate was one I hated, as was the Whomobile. Just awful.

Baker was, of course, almost born for the role and his concept of a time-travelling Harpo Marx was inspired. But this was also the era when more and more of the situations were huge story arcs that were wound up with technoblither on the last page of the script a-la Star Trek.

Davidson's doctor cured me of the show, mostly because I hated his companions, his tooth-achingly bad obsession with cricket and that damned celery stalk. The scripts were all gothic doom and gloom too (with the occasional brilliant one like Castrovalva).

McCoy's Doctor was a breath of fresh air, but again, the situations were dull and the companions were intolerable to me. By then I wasn't watching the show much, not making time for it, but I caught a few episodes.

I only saw one episode of Colin Baker's Doctor. I thought it showed promise in a completely over-the-top way, but as I say, by then I wasn't really paying attention and wasn't crushed when the show was dropped.

Besides, the Baker episodes were in constant rotation on PBS here in NY every Saturday afternoon. I was astounded at the show's popularity and the fans' efforts to keep it on screens all around the country. Tom Baker did a fund-raiser "bit" when our local PBS station was having a beggathon, in which he berated those who watched without subscribing at length and with great creativity. It was hysterical right up to the time they cut to someone else, anyone else for God's sake.

Paul McGann was excellent in the challenging role of trying to make Dr Who a prime time US TV product. A difficult act to bring off and pretty thankless, many daft UK viewers seeing his role as some sort of betrayal. His was the doctor that first showed us a Steampunky Tardis.

Eccleston was nothing short of brilliant. I don't kid myself that he was the only actor capable of giving the franchise a new lease of life, but he bit off huge chunks of it and made it his from the first few seconds of the opening. He also had some of the finest scripts I think have been attempted for the show. His is the doctor I wish we could have seen more of.

Tennant was fun, but began to get too shouty. He was also saddled with Donna which was the point at which I stopped watching again for a season or so. Did love Broody Tennant Doctor though.

Never really cottoned to Smith in the role. The show had some very clever plots and he was particularly clever in what he did with the role in places, but I found much of his reign to be "meh". I'm re-viewing his first season on disc so maybe I'll learn to like him better. Also: not fond of the River Song plot thingy.

And so to Capaldi's doctor. A bit of a puzzler this one for me. Half the time I love his characterization, half the time I hate it with a vengeance. A bit too much "today" in the set dressing I think. Some of the scripts have been stinkers, but some have had moments of inspired brilliance - the long way round springs to mind, as does the breaking of the fourth wall to ask "who wrote Beethoven's Fifth?". But the last season was saddled with too many problems for me. I wish they could have spread the encounters with old enemies over the four Capaldi seasons instead of mashing them into one horrendous crescendo.

Still iconic though, no matter who plays him. Especially if it's John Hurt.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

"apart from Colin Baker with only 2"

His 3rd series was cancelled (strikes?), there was no Dr Who that year.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

I think the Doctor should have come back as K-9.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

It never occured to me that was a typo...

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Re: Sorry, but ...

"I've always thought the best Doctor was the one you watched between the ages of 7 and 10"

The important exception being people around my age, who would be stuck with Paul McGann.

As for Doctor Jodie, all the new Whos have been pretty good so I'm optimistic she'll be fine as well. The writing is much more of an issue than the actors really; it's not just the Doctor that needs replacing from time to time to keep things from getting stale.

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Re: Sorry, but ...

You forgot Patrick Troughton. He's not that well known because his episodes got wiped for the most part. His tenure in the late sixties was influenced by the times so a lot of the stories centered on using trickery and mind games to outwit the enemy du jour rather than 'Martian judo' and the like favored by his successor.

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Overstated importance of fans

The die hard fans represent a relatively small component of the viewership, the majority of the viewers will only be concerned with if the stories are entertaining.

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

Well considering most of the "die hards" are the 2nd generation Dr Who fans, they can go cry in a dark room.

I doubt many fan or those who watched the original series are even alive to care all that much if the Doctor is a women or not.

I am currently re-watching the entire series 1-14 (not the older 1st series) with the wife and 9 year old daughter, we are getting through 3-4 episodes a night.

From the Wife belittling me for my choice in fiction to her being a staunch Dr Who fan. Scary

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

I doubt many fan or those who watched the original series are even alive to care all that much if the Doctor is a women or not.

FFS, the original series was in 1963, not 1863! That's only 54 years. A kid who started watching at episode one (like me) is going to be in their 60s, which is well below life expectancy. Or do you live in Glasgow?

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

Oi!! You kids get off my lawn!!!

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

Or do you live in Glasgow?

One does not 'live' in Glasgow. One merely exists, in pain and sorrow and hope for a better tomorrow.

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

That makes two of us, then

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

'Survives' may be a more appropriate term

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Overstated importance of fans

Come on, the infamous Glasgow Night bus* from Sauchiehall Street could be a Dr Who episode in itself, if the Doctor was brave enough to catch it.

*should be on a list of "tourist" things to do while in Glasgow, at least.

It's life in it's rawest form, and so much fun to boot, after a night on the piss. Fun times.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Overstated importance of fans

Indeed,

Born in '64

Have memories of Dr. Who from '67 onwards

Or do you live in Glasgow?

In my case, not Glasgow...but far too geographically close to the place so we've the same somewhat shitty average life expectancy....

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

Indeed . I was raised in Canada and the CBC imported those early Dr. Who's. I grew up with those funky B&W cardboard Dialects .I'm 65 now Missed most of the middle years and picked it up again with BBC America .

I always am skeptical of a new Doctor , but the creativity of the stories and the ever changing companions eventually enamors me of the new Doctor. Once you learn the idiosyncrasies of the character and the bond with the companion you grow to love them. Hated Capaldi when he started , now I'm sorry to see him go. Pearl instead of Jenna Helfman? She won me over too As long as the story lines are strong who gives a rats ass . We'll love the new Doctor too

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Joke

Re: Overstated importance of fans

Indeed . I was raised in Canada and the CBC imported those early Dr. Who's. I grew up with those funky B&W cardboard Dialects

Geordie Daleks?

"EH UP EX-TER-MIN-ATE"

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

Geordie Daleks?

"EH UP EX-TER-MIN-ATE"

As a true born Geordie, I suspect your Dalek is from a bit further south, such as Yorkshire.

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Boffin

@ AC Re: Overstated importance of fans

Too close to Glasgow?

Like Stirling? Or Edinburgh?

Sorry, but some of us Yanks are used to living in a big country. ;-)

But seriously. I'm with you.

Being here in the states we were introduced to Dr. Who on PBS and the first Doctor I saw growing up was Tom Baker.

With respect to a female doctor... we saw this coming in the last season. The Master was made in to a female and the Dr.'s companion was a Lesbian. (Short lived, but it made the relationship between Dr. and Companion have less of a sexual nuance that it picked up over the past couple of years.)

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Re: Overstated importance of fans

I remember watching the first episode, then getting to do so the next week before episode two.

Last time I looked I was alive. Dead probably doesn't ache as much.

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Go

I

I, for one, welcome our new female Over Time Lord!

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Re: I

I, for one, welcome our new female OverTime Lord!

I agree wholeheartedly. Now we can have some nice curtains and matching scatter cushions for the Tardis.

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Headmaster

Re: I

She is (will be) a Time Lady, not a Lord.

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Re: I

She is (will be) a Time Lady, not a Lord.

Better tell the current First Lord of the Treasury.

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Headmaster

Re: I

Pedant Fail.

A certain long reigning Lord of Mann may disagree.

The current Lord Mayor of Birmingham may also have something to say.

As may other Lord mayors of London and many other cities.

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Unhappy

Re: I

This is worse that the time I said that a female spymaster should be called a 'spymistress'.

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Bah!

About time. And several regenerations late I might add.

Now let us get to the matter of accent.

No more "Yawpy Donna" for fuck's sake.

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Re: Bah!

Now let us get to the matter of accent.

You will no doubt be glad to hear that Jodie is from Yorkshire.

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Joke

Re: Bah!

"Jodie is from Yorkshire."

Will the Tardis translation circuits be able to cope?

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Yorkshire?

Hope we see the Doctor using Ecky-Thump instead of Venusian aikido ;)

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Re: Yorkshire?

And by a peculiar syncrony, for the second time in this thread I am reminded strongly of MPFC's Spanish Inquisition Sketch (though strictly speaking that were started in Lancashire).

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Re: Bah!

"No more "Yawpy Donna" for fuck's sake."

Anyone else who remembers the original series remember how annoying Peri or the earlier Australian companion were - the less said about Bonnie Langford the better.

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Re: Bah!

Will the Tardis translation circuits be able to cope?

Wasn't that covered in the reboot episode 'Rose'?

Rose: You sound like you're from the norf.

Doctor: Lot's of planets have a north.

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Re: Bah!

"You will no doubt be glad to hear that Jodie is from Yorkshire."

Aye. but what accent will she use?

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annoying Peri

Couldn't watch any of the episodes featuring Peri.

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Happy

Re: Bah!

Huddersfieldian

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