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Windows Insiders with SD cards turn into OneDrive outsiders

Place holders

The new Place Holders feature in OneDrive required changes to NTFS to support the virtual files. I guess they assumed they couldn't support other file systems if Place Holders wasn't something you could just disable.

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Anonymous Coward

If this is all about Placeholders, here's one: The K Edition of Windows 10.

I have my Windows 10 folder/placeholder already created for the K Edition of Windows 10. We've already decided on the naming convention for the Oct/Nov 2017 release of Windows 10.

Why K-Edition?

Windows 10 F'CU, "K Ed.ition".

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Meh

Re: Place holders

When they had place holders in Windows 8 it didn't need NTFS.

Just another excuse for lock-in to keep the Nice Try File System relevant.

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Re: Place holders

Nice Try File System is far too kind — I've been known when frustrated to call it "Not This Fucking Shit!".

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Re: Place holders

That's why they didn't work properly and programs would try to open the placeholder file instead of downloading the file properly. That is why they killed the feature and re-wrote it.

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Re: Place holders

Dropbox seem to have worked it out without this restriction though.

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Mushroom

Re: If this is all about Placeholders, here's one: The K Edition of Windows 10.

Yep. From "One Drive" to "NONE DRIVE".

Way to go, Satan Nutella, you've børked everyone again...

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Anonymous Coward

Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

It's like they WANT to piss their customer base off so bad that the customers go elsewhere.

Web cam works? *Apply update* Not anymore.

Microphone works? *Update* Not anymore!

File system works? *Update* Not anymore!

What's next, MS deciding to remove your networking device drivers as a "security measure to protect against hackers"? I'm sure THAT will go over well when their customers can no longer get online...

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Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

I think they did that one already

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/09/mysterious_windows_10_networking_bug/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

"What's next, MS deciding to remove your networking device drivers as a "security measure to protect against hackers"?

I'm pretty sure it was during the Creator's update that a lot of the vendor's wifi card drivers were replaced with a generic Microsoft one that didn't work so well.

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Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

I have been linux on the desktop/laptop since about 1997 now, wow has it been that long. But I still have a windows 7 VM and my main computer is still dual boot with windows 7 (one of the last laptops that sold with windows 7).

I have used a bit of windows 2012 (always quickly installed classic shell, though have no intention of using windows 10 as long as win7 still works. Shit, even my recent windows server deployments were all 2008R2(windows makes up less than 1% of my server infrastructure).

MS just seems hell bent on screwing power users over, it is quite unfortunate. I used to be hard core anti MS back in the 90s, but was getting to like them(even bought several copies of windows 7 and Visio) up until they started the windows 10 push.

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Mushroom

Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

Indeed. The entire philosophy of making Windows into a bad copy of Android is crazy. Windows 10, Windows Store, One Drive etc are stupid and possibly illegal too.

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Silver badge

Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

You left out AUTOMATIC Win10 update that updated FIRMWARE and bricked Win10 x86 Tablets with keyboards used as Netbooks.

Not recoverable without special programming hardware and original firmware.

All of the MS "Cloudy" stuff seems to be a broken menace on a laptop / net book / x86 tablet used in traditional windows fashion to create / edit content.

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The network removal will be hailed as a triumph of customer service

Since, unlike this debacle, there'll very few complaints logged on the MS forum servers...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

It's like they WANT to piss their customer base off so bad that the customers go elsewhere.

I'm getting the impression they merely want to filter out the recalcitrant sheep so they know what's left will accept anything. At which point prices will go up..

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Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

You forgot the anniversary update that messed up the partition table on dual boot systems. They subdivided the Windows partition to create a recovery partition but when rebuilding the partition table assumed anything with a filesystem that Windows doesn't native support was just empty space. Goodbye grub, goodbye Linux.

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Silver badge

Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

"It's like they WANT to piss their customer base off so bad that the customers go elsewhere."

Maybe they see this as the reason why Apple is so successfull?

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Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

My network regularly vanishes after letting update shit all over win10.

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Mushroom

"The entire philosophy of making Windows into a bad copy of Android is crazy. "

Ahhhhhhh.

The light dawns with the intensity of a nuclear weapon.

That's the reason for all this crazy s**t.

Microsoft are remembering the days when they were an effective monopoly.

The good old days (for Microsoft)

"We can do anything. We don't care if users don't like it. They'll whine a bit then do it anyway. Because we're Microsoft."

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Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

Had some twit at a datacenter (softlayer, pre-IBM) respond to a (not particularly terrible) DDoS attack by, in his own paraphrased/summarized words "drop protocol 6 to port 80 and protocol 17 to port 53". This was on an Arbor TMS, which has much more advanced attack mitigation capabilities than just knocking a shared (several hundred customers) webserver off of the Internet. Point is, assume incompetence followed by laziness in this case.

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Devil

Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

heh. I love the reference. "And old Satan Clause, he's out there"

[The Last Boy Scout]

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Holmes

This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

One workaround was to format the SD card as NTFS, then use disk manager to assign it to an empty folder on the C drive. Not sure if it still works. I don't like syncing cloud services or backup services to SD cards. Windows has a funny habit of reassigning drive letters occasionally if a card pops out by accident. Could cause another external drive to be overwritten.

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Silver badge

Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

Not that I need to sync with this but isn't the point of not using NTFS so the SD card is portable to other systems whether a camera, or something ??

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

Yes, but if you were going to dedicate the card for OneDrive sync, NTFS used to have some advantages over FAT32 and exFAT in terms of search speed, compression, large file size, security settings. I'm assuming things haven't changed much in that regard the past couple of years.

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LDS
Silver badge

"to other systems whether a camera, or something ??"

If you're using a card in a camera, you usually don't want anything else but the camera messes with the card contents. You usually copy files out of the card, but let the camera manage the card. Most camera software is not designed to cope with cards managed also by other systems, they usually follow "Design rule for Camera File system", and may not like alterations to its structure.

I would never attempt to sync a card used in a camera directly with OneDrive or anything alike (unless the camera has specific support), if a backup is needed copy the data to a OneDrive folder elsewhere.

Cards used elsewhere as portable disks are another matter.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "to other systems whether a camera, or something ??"

LDS - "I would never attempt to sync a card used in a camera directly with OneDrive or anything alike"

Me neither. That would be begging for chaos.

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Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

This is all well and good , BUT most cameras in fact I will say I have yet to see a camera that supports NTFS on a media card, so yay it works with windows, crap the camera can't use it anymore.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

"so yay it works with windows, crap the camera can't use it anymore."

Dear Microsoft, your software means this no longer works with my camera, and you chose not to warn me. Cheque please.

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Devil

Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

"isn't the point of not using NTFS so the SD card is portable to other systems whether a camera, or something"

pretty much, yeah. Or a Linux computer, for that matter.

/me wonders if there will EVER be a 'user file system' (as in non-kernel), such as 'Fuse', but on winders, where people can pretty much do "whatever they want" just like in Linux and FreeBSD.

next, the ability to format exFAT or FAT or FAT32 will be removed...

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Bronze badge

Re: "to other systems whether a camera, or something ??"

I would never attempt to sync a card used in a camera directly with OneDrive or anything alike (unless the camera has specific support), if a backup is needed copy the data to a OneDrive folder elsewhere.

Exactly. Just load MobaXterm or Cygwin on that sucker, and rsync your OneDrive folder to the SD card.

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Bronze badge

Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

This is all well and good , BUT most cameras in fact I will say I have yet to see a camera that supports NTFS on a media card, so yay it works with windows, crap the camera can't use it anymore.

Cameras, tablets and media players should have just moved to EXT4 (or something similar) years ago. Adding native support to MSWin would be a simple matter of installing an IFS driver just *once*, and it would be usable regardless of the portable device it came from. Make a user-space application for those systems where you don't have the rights to install drivers. Again, just one portable r/w application would handle any device's memory card. So blatantly obvious there must be some bribery preventing it from happening.

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Silly Question

Why would someone want to synchronise their SD card to a cloud provider?

I get why they would want to upload from an SD to another location. And having files available offline is an equally obvious need.

But why would you want to combine the two? What am I missing?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Silly Question

Cause people are buying "cloudbook" laptops these days with almost zero drive space. It's tempting to be able to keep your documents and pics sync'ed to a 128GB SD card, when all your laptop gives you is 16GB or 32GB, most of which is taken up by Windows.

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Re: Silly Question

Why are you using onedrive at all. Why are you trusting Micro$oft with your data. One day you will get a message saying that you have not clicked on enough advents and they are deleting all your one drive data!.

I have hundreds of gig of photos and the same with music. I back up to a local NAS drive. Much safer. Less likley that Microsoft will shaft it!

For me a cloud backup would be the LAST thing i would use.i.e. the least trustworthy.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Silly Question

that's maybe unfair - I'll give MS a chance to keep one of the copies of data. Of course, Judge Preska has to sign an unlimited personal liability guarantee for it's privacy / security first.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Silly Question

"Why are you using onedrive at all. Why are you trusting Micro$oft with your data. One day you will get a message saying that you have not clicked on enough advents and they are deleting all your one drive data!"

Yeah - No. My company pays for some OneDrive storage, and also some DropBox. There's no "clicking on adverts". I've never heard of MS even employing such a system anyway. Apparently, using cloud services such as OneDrive and DropBox to sync data to agents in the field is important to my company. Imagine that.

However, I agree with your basic premise - I do nightly backups of the data in my care to disk. I don't trust any cloud provider that much.

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Linux

Re: Silly Question

"when all your laptop gives you is 16GB or 32GB, most of which is taken up by Windows."

last I checked, Raspbian fit in 4G

Just sayin'

/me can do a tarball backup to a google drive on Linux. works for me! Use TXZ!!! (it rhymed!)

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Industry Std

So NTFS is the industry standard.

Colour me incredulous.

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Paris Hilton

Wut?

the industry standard of support for NTFS

That's a new one. I thought it was FAT?

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YAFGMFM

Yet Another Foot Gun Moment For Microsoft.

Will they ever learn?

I hope not as their antics provide endless enjoyment for the likes of those who comment here, MS FanBois excluded.

Didn't the Final FAT patents just expire? Perhaps that is a reason? I seem to remember reading that 2017 was the expiry time for those Patents.

If that is true then they don't their their tithes/usury/royalties from the SD Card makers and kit that uses SD cards, they are turning their attention to NTFS where the patent bandwagon still applies.

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Facepalm

Move everything over to the microsoft cloud

It'll be fine they said. I'll never have to worry about losing data again, they said. So I drank the kool aid and ... you're not using our file system, so fuck off, they said.

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Gold badge

"even Redmond creations like the Resilient File System (ReFS) are blocked"

So yet another case of their right hand not knowing what their left hand is doing.

MS have looked for many years like they no longer have functioning management. Individual projects may roll out OK, but the bigger picture is lost. Two different control panels ever since Win8? Check. But that was 5 years ago, so surely it has been resolved by now. Oh dear. Patchy support even amongst the built-in utilities (like the aforementioned control panel) for hi-dpi displays ever since Vista. Check. But that was 10 years ago, so surely it has been resolved by now. Oh dear.

So if the entire senior management team falls over in the forest, does anyone actually notice?

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if the entire senior management team falls over in the forest...

...you could sell the co-ords for this happy event on eBay:

Customers who bid on this item also bid on "Sturdy garden spade" and "Quicklime, jumbo bag"

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Silver badge

Re: if the entire senior management team falls over in the forest...

I would have thought the answer was obvious from the huge cheer bursting forth from said forest as the team bites the loam. People near the scene may spot a glimpse of the BOFH and PFY strolling away pints in hand smiling at a job well done.

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Silver badge

MS have looked for many years like they no longer have functioning management.

Because they haven't. Some folks I know who USED to work there confirm that the departments are as silo-ed as they come.

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Anonymous Coward

Because they haven't. Some folks I know who USED to work there confirm that the departments are as silo-ed as they come.

More so than IBM?? I seriously doubt that's even possible.

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Anonymous Coward

Uninstall OneDrive

As part of setting up Windows 10 (set to local account, delete adware & trash, turn on privacy etc) on customers PCs I also uninstall OneDrive. Much better to backup to memory sticks, DropBox or Google, or just email to yourself).

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Re: Uninstall OneDrive

Or your own hosting / server / whatever.

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WTF?

Re: Uninstall OneDrive

Is that what the customers ask you to do? Or do you impose a crippled system on them because you hate them?

It's no wonder some people hate the IT industry.

GJC

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Re: Uninstall OneDrive

If it's for corporate, they probably do want that.

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