back to article Blighty's first aircraft carrier in six years is set to take to the seas

Britain’s largest ever warship, aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, is due to sail from her Rosyth dockyard on her maiden voyage today. The 65,000-tonne ship will leave the yard and then wait for low tide for a few hours before starting her own main engines and passing underneath the Forth Bridges, which are just downstream …

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  1. wyatt

    It'll be interesting to see the foreign forces monitoring this movement. As you say there isn't much room to hide so you'd hope that assets would have already been identified or counter measures put in place to an extent.

    If a Russian plane flew into our airspace, I wonder if it would be shot down or just be told it's a really naughty boy and please go home?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      so you'd hope that assets would have already been identified or counter measures put in place to an extent

      Like what assets? Between Blair, Brown and Cameron our government dismantled the existing Nimrod maritime patrol capability and the Cameron cancelled its replacement. We'll be relying on the handful of the now rather old Type 23 frigates, and the rather binary threat of our handful of hunter-killer submarines.

      If a Russian plane flew into our airspace, I wonder if it would be shot down

      Very, very unlikely, although it depends how much of a diplomatic incident you want. The more belligerent nations (eg Turkey) are happy to take the consequences, but between the major powers they do try to avoid getting into that sort of situation. Since UK territorial water are only 12 miles from the coast, most of the QE sea trials will be in international waters anyway.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If a Russian plane flew into our airspace, I wonder if it would be shot down or just be told it's a really naughty boy and please go home?

      As long as the Russkies stay at least 12 nm off the coast, they are perfectly within their rights to listen and record as much as they want. That's plenty close enough to get all possible visual, radar, and acoustic signatures.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        As long as the Russkies stay at least 12 nm off the coast, they are perfectly within their rights to listen and record as much as they want.

        Captain Pedant here, although this is hardly a matter of high pedantry. 12 nm would be 12 nanometres, which is really rather closer to the coast than I personally want belligerent Russians to be flying. I believe the correct symbol for nautical miles, which I assume you intended, to be "NM", although wikipedia states "M, NM, or nmi" are valid; not however simply "nm".

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Captain Pedant here, although this is hardly a matter of high pedantry. 12 nm would be 12 nanometres, which is really rather closer to the coast than I personally want belligerent Russians to be flying. I believe the correct symbol for nautical miles, which I assume you intended, to be "NM", although wikipedia states "M, NM, or nmi" are valid; not however simply "nm".

          Fresh from the desk of Dr. Proktophantasmist:

          Definition of nm

          1 nanometer

          2 nautical mile

          Source: Merriam-Webster

          1. The First Dave

            Using any American source for spelling/grammar/science is a bit unreliable, shirlye?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Using any American source for spelling/grammar/science is a bit unreliable, shirlye?

              Ah, but how do you know I am not an American (which would make it both reliable and appropriate)?

              Now as it happens I am not - but that does not make me British either, does it?

              Internet anonymity is a precious thing; among other things it forces us to assess others' statements for their content, not for the tribal allegiance of the speaker. Let's enjoy it while we still can.

            2. Aitor 1

              I don't know

              How would you meter the differences? ;)

          2. Captain DaFt

            -Definition of nm

            1 nanometer

            2 nautical mile

            Source: Merriam-Webster-

            So that was the mix-up that doomed that Mars mission!

          3. Cuddles

            "Definition of nm

            1 nanometer

            2 nautical mile"

            I don't understand why people are arguing about this. The correct notation is "13228.6508 linguine".

            1. Dave the Cat
              Coat

              Are there other crustacean based units of measurement?

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Nautical miles again

            Chambers gives the only options as nm or n mile.

            NM it gives as the abbreviation for New Mexico.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "although wikipedia states"

          IIRC you are not supposed to use Wikipedia as a source, but to go to the citations.

          1. Captain DaFt

            Re: "although wikipedia states"

            "IIRC you are not supposed to use Wikipedia as a source, but to go to the citations."

            And it doesn't hurt to check that the citations don't just end up referencing Wikipedia!

        3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          I believe the correct symbol for nautical miles, which I assume you intended, to be "NM", although wikipedia states "M, NM, or nmi" are valid; not however simply "nm".

          *Nods approvingly

          Just when you think the younger pedantards are slipping, along comes one to reconfirm ones' faith in the future of pendantry.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "Just when you think the younger pedantards are slipping, along comes one to reconfirm ones' faith in the future of pendantry."

            Pendantry ?? Sounds like we have a medallion man in our midst ;-)

        4. gandalfcn Silver badge

          Captain Pedant

          Captain Pedant you are obviously not a captain or a navigator, nor have you ever been.

          From a real captain.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Captain Pedant

            define 'real captain' with citations please, not phrom wikipeadio.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Russian planes

      If a Russian plane flew into our airspace, I wonder if it would be shot down or just be told it's a really naughty boy and please go home?

      You mean, would the Royal Air Force risk a war, and with a nuclear armed power at that, without asking the Prime Minister's permission first? Given her reputation for being weak and wobbly, what do you think her answer would be?

      In the unlikely event of her seriously considering it, factors she would be forced to evaluate include how supportive our EU partners in NATO would be in defusing another major crisis unilaterally caused by the UK, and how reliable Donald Trump would be if push came to shove. It is entirely likely that the UK would end up being hung out to dry by its allies, and worse than that, many of the UK based Russian oligarchs who donate to the Conservative Party would take their custom elsewhere.

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Russian planes

        I'm sure Trump would be a reliable ally to Russia in such an incident, given his alleged involvement in a different type of water sports.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Russian planes

          I'm sure Trump would be a reliable ally to Russia in such an incident, given his alleged involvement in a different type of water sports.

          You know that report was sourced from 4chan?

          Also, it's time to move on. Democarats are starting to notice that harping on about Russia is not a crowd-pleaser

      2. mwnci

        Re: Russian planes

        Inherent right of self defence - You don't phone the PM to give you permission to defend yourself.

        If an aircraft is not on Airguard, not got a Mode Charlie IFF response, flying outside of Airlanes, flying an attack profile, and carrying weapons, transmitting on Fire-control radars etc and breaks our Terroritorial limits. I guarantee, that aircraft will be taken out.

        As a pilot if you stand on, with any 3 of these, you are likely to be shot down - More than 3, you better have your hand on your ejector seat handle, because your ass is about to be blown out of the sky.

  2. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Coat

    What's in a (nick)name

    Let's hope Chief Petty Officer Andrew “Sticky” Vercoe doesn't get the ship stuck

    Sorry, couldn't resist, I'll get me coat

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's in a (nick)name

      He should be fine so long as lovable Lesley isn't handling the navigationals.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's in a (nick)name

      If so, it's a minor name change to Velcro.

  3. Christoph

    men in hi-vis jackets shouting "left hand down!"

    In correct Naval tradition that should be "left hand down a bit!"

    1. AndGregor

      No moving job would be complete without the obligatory "To Me - To you".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        .... and can we have Kevin McCloud doing the jeopardy bit that occurs in every episode of Grand Designs and say "the proect has reached a critcial point - will the ship be abel to squeeze out of the dock entrance ... the plans say it should - but are those plans right - and if it won't fit then they won't be in before winter and will have to say in the caravan with the new baby"

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Korev Silver badge
          Joke

          ".... and can we have Kevin McCloud doing the jeopardy bit that occurs in every episode of Grand Designs"

          You mean the bit before the people building it fall pregnant? All I've got to say is that man is fertile (allegedly).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Mandatory "Friends" reference

        "Pivot! Pivot!!!"

        I hope the QE ends up in better shape than Ross's sofa.

    2. EddieD

      Ev'rybody down!

      1. Wiltshire

        Is HMS Troutbridge part of the QE's escort?

    3. Stuart 22

      In correct Naval tradition that should be "left hand down a bit!"

      Only after going "back a bit sideways"

  4. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Why not 'Rick roll' the Russkie subs listening in? Place big sub(!!) woofer speakers on the hull and blare out Rick Ashley 24/7 :-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why not 'Rick roll' the Russkie subs listening in? Place big sub(!!) woofer speakers on the hull and blare out Rick Ashley 24/7

      Because the Ruskies wouldn't be able to hear Rick over the appalling racket of any Type 45s that the Navy have in the North Sea.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "the appalling racket of any Type 45s that the Navy have"

        It could be a double bluff. They are really very quiet, but until we need them to be, let's let everyone else think they will hear them coming. Nah, only kidding!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or host a rave party in the lower decks...

      1. Wiltshire

        Re "Or host a rave party in the lower decks..."

        How about The Village People?

        They are already on a Euro 2017 tour, scheduled to perform somewhere nearby sometime soon.

        https://www.ents24.com/uk/tour-dates/village-people

  5. Alister

    The ship, measuring 39m (128ft) abeam at the waterline, will have just 35cm (14”) clearance either side and 50cm of water clearance between her hull, the riverbed and the surrounding dockyard.

    That's a bloody tight parking space, that is, I wonder what they'll do to CPO Vercoe if he scrapes it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      In the RN if a task is critical you give it to a Chief Petty Officer. If it's important but doesn't mater if it gets screwed up a commissioned officer will do it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "In the RN if a task is critical you give it to a Chief Petty Officer. If it's important but doesn't mater if it gets screwed up a commissioned officer will do it."

        I'm here because a CPO hauled my father out of the drink with a boat hook after he had a few too many at the admiral's party following VJ day. So I concur with this statement. CPOs do precision tasks, officers give direction.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >but doesn't mater if it gets screwed up a commissioned officer will do it.

        So - much like the Army then?

        Ohh matron!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That's a bloody tight parking space, that is, I wonder what they'll do to CPO Vercoe if he scrapes it.

      I'm just wondering how much entertainment someone would get out of dropping a rock in that channel. Until it gets moving I'd be watching for people with suspiciously laden rowing boats going under that bridge :).

    3. Vulch

      The 1970s version of Ark Royal had similar clearance on its way out of Devonport dockyard. They always had to set out with just enough fuel and supplies to get clear of the breakwater, then load the rest of the fuel, food and so forth with the aircraft arriving as they headed out into the Atlantic.

    4. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Loads of room.

      Shipyards and drydocking staff are used to that.

      For some really tight manoeuvres, find some video of ships entering the Gatun locks of the Panama canal.

  6. EddieD

    Time to grab the snapper

    Since she can only leave the dock at high tide, and get under our three bridges at low tide, and according to this, she's still in dock, there will be a few hours from 5pm to 11pm where some good snaps can be obtained as she sits in the middle of the Forth.

  7. Snorlax Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Sticky Wicket

    Sky News reports that the carrier’s helmsman, Chief Petty Officer Andrew “Sticky” Vercoe, will have the unenviable task of keeping the ship on course when she squeezes out of the dockyard.

    Watch out for those rusting nuclear subs on your way out Andrew.

  8. wolfetone Silver badge
    Trollface

    I think it was very short sighted of Sir John Fowler and Sir Benjamin Baker that they didn't build the Forth bridge taller than what they settled for. Could they not see how it would impact on the UK building big huge giant war ships?! Did they not care for the ship builders further up the Forth?!

    They should be sacked!

    1. Alister
      Trollface

      Maybe Easton Gibb & Son should have built Rosyth Dockyard below the bridges, as well

      :)

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