back to article Cabinet Office minister Gummer loses seat as Tory gamble backfires

UK Cabinet Office minister Ben Gummer, architect of the Conservative Party's manifesto and the man responsible for "digital transformation", has lost his seat in the general election. Gummer was one of the most high-profile Tory causalities of the poll, losing his Ipswich seat to Labour's Sandy Martin with a wafer-thin …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good riddance

    If he's the twerp who drew up the lacklustre manifesto, then it would seem his demise is to be welcomed. I'd like to think next time they'll have a better effort, and perhaps give it more than a few weeks effort by knob-ends firmly in the Westminster bubble.

    And perhaps, instead of yet another toff-boy with a degree in history, we could have a government IT strategy mapped out in two stages - a requirements statement overseen by somebody with proper business analysis or systems architecture experience, and then a technical delivery plan, prepared by somebody who also knows about the subject.

    1. 's water music

      Re: Good riddance

      And perhaps, instead of yet another toff-boy with a degree in history, we could have a government IT strategy mapped out in two stages - a requirements statement overseen by somebody with proper business analysis or systems architecture experience, and then a technical delivery plan, prepared by somebody who also knows about the subject.

      ha ha ha. lol no.

    2. James O'Shea

      Re: Good riddance

      "And perhaps, instead of yet another toff-boy with a degree in history"

      Oy! _I_ have a degree in history! I took enough history courses for fun and to top up the grade point that at the end of my time as an undergrad I had enough credit hours for a degree in EE (IT was part of the electrical engineering department at that time) _and_ a degree in history. History was fun, and easy, and I already knew a good chunk of it.

      1. Shadow Systems

        @James O'Shea, re: history.

        Remembered it? Hell, I'm so old I probably CAUSED it! =-)p

        I'll get my coat, it's the one with the primordial soup in the pocket.

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge

      "If he's the twerp who drew up the lacklustre manifesto, t"

      He was.

      It seems a new generation of activists can be shouting

      "Gummer, Gummer, Gummer, out, out, out." *

      Somewhat ironic that Cameron won an outright majority when it was not expected and May didn't when was expected to.

      *Not that I believe in crude name calling.

    4. veti Silver badge

      Re: Good riddance

      Ye gods, really? I can't imagine anything worse.

      Give me a toff boy with a history degree every time. At least history would help them appreciate why a fragmented government is a Good Thing.

    5. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "instead of yet another toff-boy with a degree in history, "

      I really hate to point this out but History degrees tend to involve writing lots of essays.

      That means you acquire a lot of practice (in theory) of

      Critical thinking.

      Research

      Forming hypotheses from data

      Structuring your presentation so it develops your ideas.

      True, nothing directly applicable to IT but all skills that are absolutely transferable to solving IT design problems and (just as important with big systems) communicating your plan to the PHB's whose support you need to get it started. People who are brilliant coders but not have these. 10 years later they wonder why they don't get promoted.

      But you're right about it needing to be a 2 stage process. Those skills can help you figure out stage 2. You need access to domain specialists (and the ability to listen to what they are saying, and roughly to understand it) to do stage 2.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a mess...

    How could May have got it so wrong? Idiot.

    All I can hope from the hung parliament is that all the idiocy to come is paralysed by in-fighting and arguments. That's the only stability we'll get. At least Corbyn isn't PM. But he is still a liability.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a mess...

      "How could May have got it so wrong?"

      To be fair it seemed that everyone was forecasting a Tory landslide, The few last minute polls that showed it otherwise were generally dismissed as outliers.

      When the exit polls were published at 10pm - everyone was shocked and very sceptical. That attitude continued for a while into the night - especially when some seats showed a large swing from Labour to Conservative.

      An old proverb that May should have minded - "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

      Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a mess...

        Just the second in a line of kicking that we, the proles are giving the establishment. After the BREXIT vote and now this one.

        Perhaps Nicola will get the hint and not try IndyRef 2 especially after the kicking her government got yesterday. Who'd a thought it, the Tories the second biggest party in Scotland (AFAIK but could be wrong)

        As for another election in October/November, I don't think May will be PM for very long but whoever takes over from her would be bonkers to call an election for at least two years. They'd be sure to get another kicking and JC would indeed think he is the new Messiah, Then it won't be immigration HMG has to worry about but emigration and the flood of money out of the country. Exchange controls would not be far behind. Just my thoughts so feel free to downvote this into oblivion.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: What a mess...

          " I don't think May will be PM for very long but whoever takes over from her would be bonkers to call an election for at least two years."

          In this sort of situation the PM can have an election forced on them without calling it.

      2. herman

        Re: What a mess...

        Err, yeah, I guess all the Mayfly has now is the bush...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a mess...

        To be fair it seemed that everyone was forecasting a Tory landslide, The few last minute polls that showed it otherwise were generally dismissed as outliers.

        Forecasts have been wrong before - in June 2016, in November 2016.....

        1. Captain DaFt

          Re: What a mess...

          "Forecasts have been wrong before - in June 2016, in November 2016....."

          I have a little theory that the more the average person feels that they're being monitored, the more likely they'll tell pollsters what they want to hear, but then vote the way they actually feel.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

        And now she'll be getting into bed with the lady from the DUP.

        Normally I'm OK with a bit of girl on girl action but in this case not so much. Having seen the DUP leader I think I can guess whose going to be the top.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

          "And now she'll be getting into bed with the lady from the DUP."

          So she moves from berating JC for talking to terrorists, to actually climbing in bed with them.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a mess...

        "To be fair it seemed that everyone was forecasting a Tory landslide"

        That's one of the mystifying things about this mess. The result is pretty much what I and most other people I talk to expected. Someone needs better (or more honest, if there's such a thing in politics) advisors.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Coat

          ""To be fair it seemed that everyone was forecasting a Tory landslide""

          And instead the Tories got a "back slide" victory, from a 17 seat absolute majority to an 8 seat deficit.

          Underwhelming.

          Now they need to be propped up by the DUP (the Lib Dems wouldn't touch them with a barge pole after the way they'd been stabbed in the back at every turn last time out. The SNP would have a problem with England only votes).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a mess...

      "At least Corbyn isn't PM. But he is still a liability."

      To whom? Murdoch, Dacre and the Tory off-shore trust "patriots"?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a mess...

        "At least Corbyn isn't PM. But he is still a liability.

        To whom?"

        To anyone with a job, who earns money, who pays tax, who's saved for a pension, who owns a garden, who drives a car, who pays a mortgage, who doesn't have children, who does have children, who thinks Diane Abbott is actually deranged, who's sick of academic socialists with private incomes, who's fed up with the hypocrisy of those who lecture about state schools but educate their kids privately, who feels uncomfortable with Corbyn's blasé acceptance of those who've killed our soldiers, and so on, and so on...

        That's who.

        1. Mark 110

          Re: What a mess...

          I have a feeling Diane Abbott might have early stage Alzheimers. She used to be quite coherent. Not sure what her health issue is but its probably lost Labour 20 seatss.

      2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Coat

        " Tory off-shore trust "patriots""

        Definitely something to remember.

        "Patriotism is the last bastion of a scoundrel" as Oscar Wilde put it.

        1. Tom Servo

          Re: " Tory off-shore trust "patriots""

          Nope, as the US elections have shown us, Patriotism is now the first bastion of the scoundrel.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Re: What a mess...

      > How could May have got it so wrong? Idiot.

      ...

      > At least Corbyn isn't PM. But he is still a liability.

      Idiots and liabilities the lot of 'em. Please would you come out from behind your cloak of anonymity, stand for election yourself and save us.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a mess...

        The labour party was in a mess with Corbyn having lots os support from the members but not so much from the MPs. Imagine what would have happened if they'd been given time to re-organise....

        I can't say I agree with Corbyn on lots of subjects but I do respect the fact that he seems to believe in certain principles. I'd rather that than May (and others) with her "any way the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me", as long as I'm in power!

        1. Tim Brown 1

          Re: What a mess...

          "I can't say I agree with Corbyn on lots of subjects but I do respect the fact that he seems to believe in certain principles."

          This, so much this. Blair and then Cameron were all about spin and message. May is an outright liar, so it's refreshing to have someone that has principles and will say the same thing next week as he said last week. He's also someone who believes in talking rather than dropping bombs on people. I hope we get more politicians of conviction on the back of this

          1. veti Silver badge

            Re: What a mess...

            I hear a lot of this "Corbyn has principles" meme.

            Can anyone tell me what they are? Because as far as I can see, his policies are fed to him from his underlings. I've yet to hear the man himself state something he, personally, actually believes in.

            1. Mark 110

              Re: What a mess...

              "I hear a lot of this "Corbyn has principles" meme.

              Can anyone tell me what they are? Because as far as I can see, his policies are fed to him from his underlings. I've yet to hear the man himself state something he, personally, actually believes in."

              Firstly can I point out that Corbyn doesn't have 'underlings'. The Labour party is a pretty egalitarian organisation and whilst Corbyn is the figurehead he is subject to thee democratic ruless of his party.

              Secondly, point out I am not a Labour party supporter but was impressed with his performance and 80% of his policies.

              Thirdly, your statement about his policies being fed his bollocks. The principles thhing is about him refusing to be whipped to vote against his principles over very many years in parliament (I assume you do know most MPs do as they are told by the whips rather than what they think they should do). And he has managed to get most of hhis priciples into the Labour manifesto.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What a mess...

          I believe in Allah, hanging homosexuals, gassing Jews and having multiple wives under the age of 14.

          Does that really make me command your respect?

          Or is it what Corbyn believes in that is important?

          OK let's try again.

          I believe in Jesus, the ultimate goodness of all mankind and when I drive, I dont put my trust in engineers to design it safe, I put my trust in Jesus instead. And I believe in Fairies, pixie dust, Unicorns, magic money trees, and magic thinking that says if we all just were to pray together, the world would become such a nicer place and we wouldst need a nuclear deterrent.

          Still got your respect have I?

          Faugh! Belief in principles FFS! Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

          I'll save my respect for a man who can code 50,000 lines of code, that does something real, and get the bugs out too, whilst managing a team as well.

          But then, I am only an engineer, whose business is building and maintaining the world that the Corbyns of this life take completely for granted in blissful and total ignorance of the level of skill and sheer hard work that goes into creating and maintaining it.

          I don't mind the Left coming up with visions of where they think society ought to go.

          But please, never ever ever let them try and build it themselves.

          1. Uffish

            @Anonymous Engineer

            Corbyn might say: "But then, I am only a politician, whose business is building and maintaining the world that the engineers of this life take completely for granted in blissful and total ignorance of the level of skill and sheer hard work that goes into creating and maintaining it".

            At a guess I'd say a significant proportion of engineers would make lousy politicians, it takes all sorts.

          2. Kiwi

            Re: What a mess...

            I believe in Allah, hanging homosexuals, gassing Jews and having multiple wives under the age of 14.

            Does that really make me command your respect?

            As a gay Christian (and, by what Paul said in one of his letters, also a Jew (or at least Hebrew) by default), actually it would - if you stick to your beliefs honestly (but being open to challenge and change if your beliefs are found to be wrong) then I do respect your views, and your right to hold them. Your opinion may call for my death, but I respect and uphold your right to that.

            I believe in Jesus, the ultimate goodness of all mankind and when I drive, I dont put my trust in engineers to design it safe, I put my trust in Jesus instead. And I believe in Fairies, pixie dust, Unicorns, magic money trees, and magic thinking that says if we all just were to pray together, the world would become such a nicer place and we wouldst need a nuclear deterrent.

            That wouldn't, firstly because of several inherent inconsistencies and second because anyone who tried to claim that obviously has no clue of who Jesus is or what He taught (again, open to challenge/change ie learning is another matter).

            the ultimate goodness of all mankind

            The Bible teaches that the heart is inherently dishonest, selfish, and a few other things as well - maybe even the word "evil" tossed around in there. When someone called Jesus "Good" He responded by saying "there are none that are good, only God the Father".

            when I drive, I dont put my trust in engineers to design it safe, I put my trust in Jesus instead

            No one who thinks or knows their Bible would ever do that. We have been given quite powerful brains to actually USE them, not to let them go to waste. We're told to test and prove anything we hear, ie to think and see if it's internally consistent and consistent with the Bible (anyone wanting to claim "contradictions" please show me a couple that can actually stand up to scrutiny!). I've had a couple of occasions of fore-warning while out riding where I've been saved due to taking heed, and I've also had a few times where I've had no obvious intervention at all - though they've usually been where I've been silly and have resulted in no major injury to me and only damage to my bike - ie my own damned fault for stupidly exceeding safety limits. I trust my Bible, and that basically says that I should train, practice, and do a good job as if I'm a child showing to my Father how good I've become at doing something He takes pride in me doing well, not some mentally handicapped person totally dependent on another (not saying that as a dig at the handicapped, but saying that those who think they should be depending on something outside themselves for every decision are handicapped)

            And I believe in Fairies, pixie dust, Unicorns, magic money trees, and magic thinking

            None of that is Biblical. In fact, to those claiming that if you're not rich you're not blessed, and therefore doing wrong and not in God's favour - Jesus promised His disciples "in this world you will have troubles" and "the world will hate you". Further we're told not to store up treasure on earth but to build it "in Heaven", for "where your treasure is, there your heart will be also". If we place our value on things in this world, then when the time comes to move on (say to go to a poorer country to make use of the skills you have eg in medicine), you'll be resistant to what Dad wants you to do, rather than dropping stuff and going. Or like some you'll be scared of losing it all.

            if we all just were to pray together, the world would become such a nicer place and we wouldst need a nuclear deterrent.

            Hey, you actually got something right! But not in the way you imagine. First, if we come together to pray, we're talking. But we're not talking to/at each other, we're seeking betterment for others. And while we wait, we hear what concerns others, and can start to actually think of ways to improve their lot as well as ours. Better if people keep prayers short (Jesus did say you don't need "many words" and not to keep "babbling like heathens" who think that by lots and lots of words they can somehow appease God - God actually wants His turn to speak as well y'know, and sometimes if you just shut up and listen... You wouldn't go to a Doctor and speak non-stop and excessively repetitively about your problems; you'd tell him where it hurts then let him advise you (unless you like various self-diagnoses materials, in which case your 10 minutes reading trumps his 10 years schooling any day!). Anyway getting together to properly pray for each others problems and shortcomings makes people friendlier and stronger as a group. Sure, you will get those who gossip, and those who will seek advantage. Dad has ways of taking care of them Himself though, and sometimes the greatest people later on are those who started as scumbags earlier - they're humbled by the memory of what they were, much more effective at helping others, and become great listeners and advisers.

            I'll save my respect for a man who can code 50,000 lines of code, that does something real, and get the bugs out too, whilst managing a team as well.

            If you don't change your principles with the seasons, then that's sometime I can respect. If you look at your principles from time to time to make sure you can still believe in them, rather than just "this book says" then I respect that more.

            I've seen much in "Christianity" for me to have often dropped the label from myself, but I've seen nothing in the Bible or in Jesus to make me want to turn away from that.

            I don't mind the Left coming up with visions of where they think society ought to go.

            But please, never ever ever let them try and build it themselves.

            Why not? I just need to look at the mess the "Right" have made of NZ over the last 9 years to see how "good" they are at building a society. Rich are richer, 2-income families are living in their cars. There are places where a household income of $70k/a is not enough to pay the rent, and you can't easily go elsewhere because there aren't the jobs elsewhere. The "Right" can be good at building their bank balance, but that only lasts so long. Stupid to own a large chain of supermarkets when most of us can't afford to eat. Stupid to own a dozen "investment properties" when they're sitting empty. The Left build things that last till the Right see they can monetize it. The Left build roads, the Right build banks.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a mess...

        Please would you come out from behind your cloak of anonymity, stand for election yourself and save us.

        Voted rejoinder of the week. But would you vote for me if you knew who I was?

        My first is like Doris,

        except with a 'B'.

        My second is slang

        for what men use to pee.

  3. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Well look on the bright side

    Anything remotely contentious is going to be dropped in an effort to stop the Tory party imploding, for which we can probably be thankful (e.g. backdoored encryption).

    But Europe and Brexit will get them knifing each other in the back again, there's no way 10 DUP seats can cover that. So, elections again in six months' time?

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Well look on the bright side

      If the DUP is involved in the government in any way then I can think we expect problems with the Northern Ireland Assembly. And if May thought her own backbenchers were difficult to manage, she's going to find out what real hardliners are like.

      Couldn't have happened to a nice person.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well look on the bright side

        "And if May thought her own backbenchers were difficult to manage, she's going to find out what real hardliners are like."

        And if May thought her own backbenchers were difficult to manage, she's going to find out what real religious fundamentalist hardliners are like.

        FTFY

        1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
          Alert

          Re: Well look on the bright side

          And if May thought her own backbenchers were difficult to manage, she's going to find out what real religious fundamentalist hardliners are like.

          Appropriate Daily Mash article on the subject.

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "going to find out what real religious fundamentalist hardliners are like."

          "So you're a Vicar's daughter Mrs May.

          We like our religion in Ulster as well.

          I'm sure we'll have lots to talk about. BTW we really like your plan for Brexit"

        3. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

          Re: "she's going to find out what real hardliners are like."

          Snaps fingers.

          That's it...

          Give the DUP the role of negotiating the whole Brexit process, from start to finish.

      2. IsJustabloke
        Meh

        Re: Well look on the bright side

        "Couldn't have happened to a nice person."

        while I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, whatever happens is going to happen to all of us.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well look on the bright side

        :If the DUP is involved in the government in any way then I can think we expect problems with the Northern Ireland Assembly. And if May thought her own backbenchers were difficult to manage, she's going to find out what real hardliners are like."

        It's probably just as well that, contrary to Michael Gove's suggestion in the Times (paywall alert), she isn't a Catholic

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Well look on the bright side

      The DUP assistance is sufficient to gain stable majority only if Sinn Fein does not take their seats.

      I am not sure that they will continue holding to their no-Westminster policy if their arch-rival is in-government or given significant say in policy.

      Latest numbers are 318 + 10 = 328. Subtract Ken Clarke who thankfully did not stand down at this election - 327. Subtract Heidi Allen and a few others which do not tow the party line on most critical issues and voilà - she just lost her majority. Provided Sinn Fein shows up.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. graeme leggett Silver badge

          Re: Well look on the bright side

          DUP do not want a hard border with Ireland.

          From the Metro:

          "She has said that no-one wants to see a hard Brexit, and ‘what we want to see is a workable plan to leave the European Union’.

          Her stance is that it needs to be done in ‘a way that respects the specific circumstances of Northern Ireland and our shared history and geography with the Republic of Ireland’ "

      2. Ejit

        Re: Well look on the bright side

        And it is worth remembering that the DUP and the 12 Scottish Torys for that matter are castrated by EVEL, so can't vote on Health, Education, Transport...etc.

        Bet EVEL gets repealed shortly.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well look on the bright side

          But so are the SNP and Labour north of the border.

          Scottish Tories only need vote on English issues if SNP or Scottish Labour vote.

          1. Bronek Kozicki

            Re: Well look on the bright side

            I put myself on the target (not being a citizen I can only watch and comment) but for one, I think this is actually not bad. Some commentators say that makes Norwegian-style soft brexit more likely, as the government won't have the votes for anything more complex or controversial. And I think they might be right in this.

        2. Dave Schofield

          Re: Well look on the bright side

          Would those MPs that can't vote on devolved matters be able to vote to change their right to vote on devolved matters?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Well look on the bright side

            It's a convention that non-English MP's don't vote on English only matters - it isn't a law.

            However in England the Conservatives have a healthy majority, so there's no need for the DUP to support them in England anyway, unless SNP, PC, etc, break the convention first.

            1. Lars Silver badge

              Re: Well look on the bright side

              "It's a convention that non-English MP's don't vote on English only matters - it isn't a law.".

              And lets not forget that Brexit is certainly not a "English only matter".

      3. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

        Re: Well look on the bright side - @ Voland's Right Hand

        [...] Provided Sinn Fein shows up.

        I think it's fairly safe to assume they won't (I don't believe they ever have, so the number required to reach an overall majority is always 325 minus the number of Sinn Fein seats)

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