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back to article Just so we're all clear on this: Russia hacked the French elections, US Republicans and Dems

It's been a busy week already on Capitol Hill. We've heard yet again revelations of Russian hackers breaking into US Republican and Democrat campaign computers – and interfering with France's presidential election. In a Senate judiciary committee meeting on Monday, former Director of National Security James Clapper was asked …

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  1. DrXym

    Yup

    And people paying attention know there are at least 2, possibly 3 grand juries already convening prior to making some arrests. And a State of New York RICO charge that could drag in Trump or some of his confederates on the grounds of racketeering, money laundering on behalf of the Russian mafia.

    Trump has a busy few weeks of reality denial ahead of him. #fakenews

    15 14 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yup

      I am no Trump fan, but his links to Russian money so far have proven to be extremely elusive. In fact there is little or no proof of them publicly released so far. Chinese money - maybe. Middle Eastern money - definitely. Russian - no documents so far.

      Now, Clinton connections to Ukrainian money is a completely different story. There is an official record of Ukrainian oligarchs paying for her appearance at junkets and speeches as well as donating to her foundation. Ditto for Blair (payments for both). It is in their RELEASED accounts and in their foundations RELEASED accounts. Just go and read them. That's how we do it in the 21st century - everything is above board and we even invoice you for that. No bribes under the table - that is so medieval 3rd world you know...

      I am leaving the question of "would paying me 2M make me such a Russo-phobic c*nt" as an "exercise to the reader".

      20 14 Reply
      1. DrXym
        Reply Icon

        Re: Yup

        If you want to sense which way the wind is blowing subscribe to John Schindler @20committee on Twitter. He's an ex-intelligence community & columnist and has a pretty sharp eye on things which are happening.

        The likes of Flynn, Manafort and Page *are* going to get prosecuted and it's not hard to see others dragged in too, especially if its seen they were acting in cahoots. They might even turn states evidence for cushier sentences.

        Second to this Trump *does* have Russian mob ties. His casinos were fined for money laundering. His business partner Felix Sater is a convicted mobster. Dutch TV did an interesting documentary about Sater this recently which is on YouTube. The BBC interviewed Trump about Sater and Trump's entire response was to call the interviewer thick and run out of the room. Trump is vulnerable to compromise and it's not a stretch to imagine that he *has* been compromised. And even if he hasn't, there's that whole RICO investigation.

        26 6 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Yup

          Section 40 needs to be implemented forthwith!

          0 0 Reply
        2. BillG
          Reply Icon
          WTF?

          Re: Yup

          From the linked Clinton News Network website:

          Flynn served as his National Security Adviser, but resigned after one month amid questions about his links to Russia.

          As I recall all Flynn did was not declare a visit to Russia. That's hardly as dark as the deliberately vague statement "links to Russia".

          The Clinton Foundation, OTOH, has pretty strong ties to Russia and I'll bet Hillary has some emails on that.

          Oh, wait...

          8 22 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Yup

            The Clinton Foundation, OTOH, has pretty strong ties to Russia

            Your knowledge of Geography is probably not your strongest point. The Russian sounding names in the Clinton foundation donor list are from Ukraine and more specifically they have significant vested interests _AGAINST_ the other part of the Ukrainian mob - the one which gets along with the Russians.

            10 2 Reply
          2. james 68
            Reply Icon

            Re: Yup

            @BillG

            "As I recall all Flynn did was not declare a visit to Russia. That's hardly as dark as the deliberately vague statement "links to Russia"."

            That's some very selective memory you got there.

            Phone calls to the Russian ambassador, emails to the Russian ambassador (specifically talking about sanctions), denying and deliberately obfuscating receiving payments from Russian interests and lobbying on their behalf, same as previous for Turkey. That "visit to Russia" you mentioned? He tried to deny that too until the proof against him was overwhelming and he tried to spin it as just a typical RT event. So happens he was photographed in the presence of the Russian ambassador (again) and Putin himself at said event, funny how he didn't mention that when quizzed by congress about meeting Russian individuals dontcha think?

            Oh and the final gasp of an "innocent" man, he has promised to spill the beans if he is provided with immunity from prosecution. I'm sure that's something every innocent man asks for.

            And that's only the dirt on Flynn....

            19 1 Reply
    2. YARR
      Reply Icon

      Zero evidence presented + unfounded claims by a politician = it must be true (!)

      14 0 Reply
    3. DrXym
      Reply Icon

      Re: Yup

      As if to emphasize the shitstorm coming, just look what happened. Comey fired on a weak pretext, as if that will make the investigations and indictments disappear. Nixon had his own "Saturday Night Massacre" with as much success as Trump will have.

      13 1 Reply
    4. Adam 52 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Yup

      "that could drag in Trump or some of his confederates on the grounds of racketeering, money laundering on behalf of the Russian mafia."

      Could it? How far does Presidential immunity from prosecution go?

      0 0 Reply
      1. Chemical Bob
        Reply Icon

        Re: Yup

        Presidential immunity from prosecution goes way, way too far, unfortunately.

        0 0 Reply
        1. Fred Goldstein
          Reply Icon

          Re: Yup

          The President has no immunity against state charges, even if he has some immunity against some federal ones. The NY State AG is investigating Trump.

          2 1 Reply
  2. NonSSL-Login
    Meh

    There were 3 in the server and the little one said...roll over

    So were the NSA and GCHQ just watching the traffic flows at various internet backbones or had they also penetrated the same servers as part of infowars strategy and noticed other parties malware?

    The only difference between Russia and the west when it comes to hacking EVERYONE, is how they use the information. The UK and US will use the information from hacking the French candidates one way and maybe some sly leak if they think it will benefit them, compared to Russia that dumps the whole lot of the candidate they are not keen on and let the journalists rummage through and find the dirt.

    Yet, Russia is bad mmmkay. UK and US are squeeky clean so get to shout to the world how bad Russian hacking is. Very hypocritical but the sheeple and media like a bad Russia and Putin story...

    19 21 Reply
    1. beep54
      Reply Icon

      Re: There were 3 in the server and the little one said...roll over

      Sorry, but you lose any shred of credibility by using the word 'sheeple'. Grow up.

      9 2 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: There were 3 in the server and the little one said...roll over

        I think that 'sheeple' is appropriate here - most folk immediately focus on the details of what the various countries secret services are alleged to have done, in this case, what the Russians are alleged to have done. Instead, what people should be focussing on is who is saying the 'what' and, most importantly of all, why are they saying it.

        In this case then, what is important is: why are the West's security services are telling us this stuff and what do they hope to achieve by doing so?

        What is clear is that when the public can do nothing about what they are told, the only point in telling them is to make them believe something that they would not have thought otherwise.

        In summary, when government tells you something about someone else the target they're shooting at is not that someone else - the target is you; the someone else is just the bullet.

        2 0 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: There were 3 in the server and the little one said...roll over

        Just be glad they didn't use the word "salty" 4 times in a 3 sentence paragraph.

        1 0 Reply
      3. NonSSL-Login
        Reply Icon

        Re: There were 3 in the server and the little one said...roll over

        "Sorry, but you lose any shred of credibility by using the word 'sheeple'. Grow up."

        If that is the strongest argument against my post you could make, maybe you are just a butthurt iPhone user still upset from that new dictionary entry? ;)

        Sheeple is in the dictionary peeples! https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/28/apple_fanbois_officially_sheeple/

        0 0 Reply
  3. JLV

    just getting started

    Seems to me we are still living in amateurish times.

    What would it take for a nation state to completely cover its tracks?

    - no "native language stuff" in code or comments

    - offshore teams - base your dudes in, say, Malta or Cyprus, not Moscow. No IP geo tracks that way.

    - encrypt comms to team and "need-to-know". Just like mushrooms goes the saying. Heck, don't comm via digital means at all.

    - start from clean OS downloads from open source. Add malware from crims as needed

    - use criminals rather than your cyber soldiers

    - muddle up the money trail to your team.

    If you add this, and other operational security I didn't think of, how could anyone truly know who's pulling the strings? Could say, Russia "frame" China vis a vis the West? How would we trust our own govs?

    I don't see any great reason to doubt Russian involvement in this instance, but the scope for misdirection and possibly even false flag ops is getting bigger all the time.

    19 1 Reply
    1. Roo
      Reply Icon
      Windows

      Re: just getting started

      - don't use x86 hardware, especially in routers. :)

      5 3 Reply
      1. Roo
        Reply Icon

        Re: just getting started

        Aww was that too soon after the AMT zero length password remotely exploitable vuln for you downvoters ?

        8 0 Reply
    2. Bob Rocket
      Reply Icon

      Re: just getting started

      What difference, at this point, does it make ?

      4 0 Reply
      1. PhilipN Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        What difference does it make?

        I just had a brilliant idea. The US President should be elected by voting by the whole World excluding the USA.

        After all, the US electorate seem only to make a complete hash of it.

        14 0 Reply
    3. deathOfRats
      Reply Icon

      Re: just getting started

      And there was me thinking that was SOP in the so called "intelligence agencies".

      Have the standards gone to hell or is this just a wheels within wheels within wheels kind of thing?

      3 0 Reply
    4. Meph
      Reply Icon
      Black Helicopters

      Re: just getting started

      There may be a much simpler explanation, which is that the most effective use of any weapon is the publicity surrounding it.

      For those of us old enough, remember the nervous commentary surrounding the existence of the exocet missile, right up until the deployment of the phalanx system on US warships. In a similar vein, think on why the North Koreans continually brag about their capabilities and tests.

      Perhaps the Ruski's want the world to know that they've found ways to successfully manipulate the masses, because what good is having a new toy if you can't brag about it to everyone else.

      6 0 Reply
    5. Rich 11
      Reply Icon

      Re: just getting started

      - offshore teams - base your dudes in, say, Malta or Cyprus, not Moscow. No IP geo tracks that way.

      I bet GCHQ would love it if a Russian team set themselves up in Cyprus. They wouldn't have to bother with the sophistication necessary to get a close look at ops based in Moscow or St Petersburg -- they could just wander down the hill with a pair of binoculars.

      2 0 Reply
  4. Bob Rocket

    Landslide ?

    Just to be clear on the 66/34 Macron win.

    25% of the electorate didn't turn up or turned up and spoiled their ballot

    12% of the electorate turned up and wrote a version of NOTA on the paper

    42% of the electorate voted Macron

    21% of the electorate voted Le Pen

    37% didn't care for either of them

    An overwhelming majority of the electorate in a two horse race did not back the winner.

    Mandate, pas tant

    12 15 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Landslide ?

      He still got more than UK BrExit votes which are roughly equivalent to the French number of "Both of you are merde"

      14 4 Reply
    2. DrXym
      Reply Icon

      Re: Landslide ?

      "An overwhelming majority of the electorate in a two horse race did not back the winner."

      A point of clarification. French elections are ALWAYS a two horse race. The primary round features all the candidates and then the second is between the top two from the first round.

      Second, claiming the majority didn't vote for them could be said for many elections. UK MPs frequently don't enjoy the majority of votes in their constituency unless they're in a very safe seat.

      26 1 Reply
      1. Bob Rocket
        Reply Icon

        Re: Landslide ?

        I don't have a problem with Macron winning, they have their mad election method, we have ours. A wise person might be wary of the silent majority (our bunch can hide in collective responsibility, Le President is on his own)

        Horses for courses.

        2 0 Reply
        1. Rich 11
          Reply Icon

          Re: Landslide ?

          A wise person might be wary of the silent majority

          If they stay silent and don't vote then they're not doing anything that the political world needs to be wary of.

          4 0 Reply
    3. Schultz
      Reply Icon
      WTF?

      Re: Landslide? ... 42% of the electorate voted Macron

      42% of all eligible voters is quite a mandate. Let's compare:

      Trump is president with some 26% of eligible voters voting for him.

      Brexit won with some 28% of eligible voters voting for it.

      ... could continue the list, but you get the picture. Macron did quite well I'd say.

      32 1 Reply
      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Landslide? ... 42% of the electorate voted Macron

        Macron did quite well I'd say.

        He did, but you're still counting the "don't cares" as "voted against", which is false logic.

        Of the 75% of the electorate who turned up to vote, 58% voted for Macron. With Brexit, of the 72% who turned up to vote, 52% voted to leave (which is 38% of the electorate, not 28% as you claimed). The results aren't all that dissimilar.

        4 0 Reply
        1. deive
          Reply Icon

          Re: Landslide? ... 42% of the electorate voted Macron

          @Phil, don't think you can directly compare a 50/50 vote vs a 2 round vote...

          3 0 Reply
          1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Landslide? ... 42% of the electorate voted Macron

            don't think you can directly compare a 50/50 vote vs a 2 round vote...

            I'd say they were more comparable than many others. Brexit was a single-issue binary choice, not directly related to party politics. Having elected a government who promised a referendum (among other policies) the actual referendum was designed just to address that one issue.

            The 2nd round of the French election was the same, after the first round to pick two candidates from a large field, the second round is designed as a head-to-head binary choice, specifically so that the winning candidate is seen to have a clear majority of those who voted.

            1 0 Reply
            1. Adam 52 Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Landslide? ... 42% of the electorate voted Macron

              "Brexit was a single-issue binary choice, not directly related to party politics. "

              It wasn't though. It was a vote for independence if you ask Farage, for the NHS if you ask the Leave campaign, for democracy if you ask one of my friends, to send the blacks home according to the man in my local, against Turkey joining the EU if you ask Boris Johnson or just for a return to the good old days according to the landlord of the Dog and Muffler.

              That was David Cameron's big mistake and Theresa May's Enabling Act. If the question had been one binary question it would not have gained anywhere near as much support.

              4 2 Reply
              1. Anonymous Coward
                Reply Icon
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Landslide? ... 42% of the electorate voted Macron

                The Brexit choice was binary, Stay or Go. The reasons behind why people chose one or the other option were very different, of course. The same is true of the French presidential election, many people who ticked the "Macron" box did so because they were voting against Le Pen, or against protectionism, or for the EU, or even some, I suppose, because they wanted Macron as President.

                0 0 Reply
    4. Potemkine Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Landslide ?

      An overwhelming majority of the electorate in a two horse race did not back the winner.

      Nonetheless, Macron got more votes than the two previous presidents got in their time....

      :

      6 0 Reply
    5. JCitizen
      Reply Icon
      IT Angle

      Re: Landslide ?

      Pretty much same with the US election. When you see the pie chart of who voted for who and who didn't, Hillary's popular vote doesn't count for much. Wake me up when a US candidate actually gleans the MAJORITY of the registered voter population.

      1 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I confess ...

    The butler did it!

    2 0 Reply
  6. Roo
    Windows

    What next ?

    The Democrats and Republicans can now reasonably expect Russia to have some actionable blackmail material available, it'll be interesting to see whether they fight or co-operate to quash the investigations.

    I suspect the latter because the establishment like to pretend that they have a "Mandate" whatever that actually may be. I haven't seen any Mandate Police or Mandates in the shops so far, so not entirely sure where they could come by such a thing as a result of an election won on the back of blackmail.

    2 0 Reply
    1. Roo
      Reply Icon
      Windows

      Re: What next ?

      Sigh... Didn't have to wait long for an answer, James Comey fired already. :)

      9 0 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "We're watching the Russians penetrate your infrastructure"

    It's what the internet was invented for.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBDCq6Q8k2E

    4 0 Reply
  8. SW10
    Black Helicopters

    There's a May mystery

    US Democrats hacked, Macron hacked; scary times for those whose aims and policies are not aligned with Russia's.

    Strange that nothing's happened to May. Oh, wait...

    9 2 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There's a May mystery

      For the Russians to bother they'd have to deem there to be a viable alternative. Let's face it, Corbyn ain't that person.

      10 1 Reply
  9. Mark 85
    Devil

    Well.... the jury is still out....

    We're missing a few commentards input on this.

    Seriously, if the allegations are true of what the candidates/elected officials did are true, there should be justice. As for those who hacked and released.. they need to shot at sunrise. Politics has to be the messiest thing in the world.

    And yes, I'm well aware that dirty tricks, etc. in politics/elections have been going on in almost all if not all countries since the first election was held.. It still doesn't justify it or make it right.

    1 3 Reply
  10. uncommon_sense
    Terminator

    >choosing Macron over the revolting Le Pen<

    So, EL RAG has now given up the last pretence of objectivity, just like Le Inq?

    10 21 Reply
    1. veti Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      In the first place, El Reg has never pretended to be objective. About anything.

      In the second place, "objective" doesn't mean you can't tell the truth just because some politician somewhere doesn't like it.

      28 3 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      revolt: to renounce allegiance or subjection (as to a government) : rebel

      6 0 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      @ uncommon_sense

      The objectivity you seek has already been overwritten by the beliefs that the media has instilled in you.

      Do not set yourself on fire in order to keep others warm.

      3 0 Reply
  11. Bob Rocket

    Revolt

    to renounce subjection to a government

    I'll go with that

    #Je Suis Revolting

    1 0 Reply

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