Bureaucracy
He shouldn't have used math. It makes governments nervous.
Last year, Mats Järlström was fined $500 for revealing troubling flaws in the mathematical formula used to govern the timing of US traffic lights. Järlström, a Swedish electronics engineer who has lived in America for more than two decades, realized there was a design fault in traffic systems after his wife got a ticket from …
No, it's American culture. Years ago I read a voyaging journal by a young French sailor of considerable renown. (Damn, I wish I could remember more... but anyway) He had encountered bureaucracy around the globe, and got along just fine. Until the Panama Canal, controlled by the Americans. I remember vividly his statement, "When it comes to bureaucratic hostility, pettiness, and obstruction, the Americans are without equal!" (Thats paraphrasing, as close as I can remember.) It stuck with me. I'm a Yank, and I've lived with our native-born bureaucrats.
Oregon is NOT the exception. In all areas of bureaucratic practice at all levels in the U.S., it is more the rule. We pride ourselves in rigid, unbending enforcement of "the rules."
Oregon is NOT the exception. In all areas of bureaucratic practice at all levels in the U.S., it is more the rule. We pride ourselves in rigid, unbending enforcement of "the rules."
Unless, apparently, it involves an orange billionaire who can break every rule on self enrichment, nepotism and active collusion with a foreign government to rig a vaguely democratic election process.
Just out of interest, does Oregon have any DIY stores then, or are they reserved for people who can prove they're licensed engineers? Are ballpoints, or is it still strictly a goose feather and parchment environment? Do they check at the State border for contraband such as unlicensed wrenches and hammers with their serial numbers filed off?
Way back in the mists of time, Engineers were people (usually men) who designed bridges, roads, towers, etc. Then the industrial revolution came and suddenly those who designed cars, airplaines, etc. were getting engineering degrees. The "old line" Engineers just don't believe these upstarts are engineers.
"A mechanical engineer builds weapons. A civil engineer builds targets."
I'm a civil engineer. Before that, I was an artillery man. I know how to build hard targets.
---
SERGIUS [gravely, without moving] Captain Bluntschli.
BLUNTSCHLI. Eh ?
SERGIUS. You have deceived me. You are my rival. I brook no rivals. At six o'clock I shall be in the drilling- ground on the Klissoura road, alone, on horseback, with my sabre. Do you understand ?
BLUNTSCHLI [staring, but sitting quite at his ease] Oh, thank you : thats a cavalry man's proposal. I'm in the artillery ; and I have the choice of weapons. If I go, I shall take a machine gun. And there shall be no mistake about the cartridges this time.
(G.B. Shaw - Arms and the Man)
""When it comes to bureaucratic hostility, pettiness, and obstruction, the Americans are without equal!" "
When I started work as a young R&D engineer* my boss had spent considerable time in both the Soviet Union and the US, and he warned me before I went to the US about the bureaucracy. He said that he had been astonished to discover that Soviet bureaucracy was a lot easier to negotiate than US bureaucracy. I found this hard to believe. And then I experienced US bureaucracy.
*I don't live in Oregon so I couldn't be an engineer.
"Soviet bureaucracy was a lot easier". Well perhaps, you give them something and in return they give you something. See the problem, what a topic, I think we all know when it starts to smell with or without gifts.
And I think that as soon as we start this "they are all like that" and "those are all like this" then we are speaking a lot of "this" and "that", generally rubbish.
Damned right, sir. US bureaucracy in my experience is a lot simpler to navigate than the French system. US bureaucracy is brutally up front & efficient with obtuse rules; French bureaucracy wonders why you think it shouldn't be so obstructive; and British bureaucracy would like you to come back tomorrow.
For all its faults, at least the US government is all searchable. This "engineer" rule in Oregon was very much known about beforehand. I've read similar nonsense before. The only reason French and British bureaucracy can be navigated at all is because someone somewhere took pity on you and maybe bent the rules a little. It's because those countries' rules seem to be that the license is the law. Once you have something, it's yours to keep. In the US, the rules *always* apply. An improperly issued privilege can be revoked.
Nice.
I already knew one reason the French and Americans have a tetchy relationship with each other - an innate conviction that they are each the start and end of civilization and God's gift to others on the planet. Whom all others should emulate.
You can now add they _both_ have head-up-the-rectum bureaucrats aplenty.
It seems French Culture involves making a Sport of mocking and criticizing anything American.
At a Technical meeting Breakfast table in Germany, the French Delegate spent nearly half an hour criticizing Americans for their Inferior grasp of Logic. Much of his Tirade involved our failure to universally adopt the Metric System. He didn't know that I understand the French and German that he spoke exclusively in.
As courtesy, all the German Host Delegates spoke English.
When he decided to Shut Up and Eat, I gave my Host my card, and told him, "Tell Henri that they may ONLY call me AFTER they Make Their Verbs Regular".
@Graybyrd - "Oregon is NOT the exception. In all areas of bureaucratic practice at all levels in the U.S., it is more the rule. We pride ourselves in rigid, unbending enforcement of "the rules."
Not Texas. In Texas, we call Oregon the "Soviet Socialist Republic of Oregon" for a reason. And west coast companies and population are flocking to Texas for a reason.
(shamelessly lifting somebody's comment): "In Canada, he'd be considered a crank by some, a prophet by others. That would be his Free Speech. The difference seems to be that he backed up his arguments with Mathematics rather than bluster or bullster. Mathematics is Truth, so Free Speech is OK so long as it isn't true? Say it ain't so, Galileo."
r-types (Rabbit-like people) often can't perceive risk, and can suffer "triggering" mental pain when the risk becomes damage, K-type (Wolf-like people) can easily perceive risk, so prevent/avoid it, but the r-types blindly assume that everyone else is risk blind, so push redundant regulations instead of the more rational solution of having K-type people identify risky situations. This, gangster-like protectionism and other stupid/corrupt people is why there is so much harmful bureaucracy and harmful safety nets.
Not in UK and Ireland were any delivery person to living room, service technician, dish / aerial fitter etc is called an "engineer" even if they only did a H&S course and orientation course to know which is the pointy end of a drill.
It's demeaning to real engineers that had to get a bunch of A Levels, do a 3 to 4 year University degree and in some cases nearly a year of work experience before they are called an Engineer.
Because steam engines really needed engineers to operate. On a steam train you could tell who the operator was by the whistle, as one of the first tasks that a new engineer was given was to design a train whistle, which they switched out every time they took over a train.
On a steam train you could tell who the operator was by the whistle, as one of the first tasks that a new engineer was given was to design a train whistle, which they switched out every time they took over a train.
[citation needed].
I can't find this with a quick Google. Further, every loco I've played with has had a whistle that a) would be inconvenient to swap out in a hurry when changing drivers (simply because of location and time taken to reach) and b) would be far to hot to deal with.
I've spent some time around Steam Incorporated's yard, thought some years back. Have had a life-long interest in steam and this is the first time I've heard of this, though my exposure to steam loco's has been mainly NZ ones (due to our odd railway gauge, we don't see much else here). This could be something that didn't happen here.
"[citation needed].
I can't find this with a quick Google."
I can offer you this, from the Ballad:
"You could tell from the engine's moans
That the hogger at the throttle was Casey Jones".
It may or may not be relevant. But my grandfather had the turned and polished brass ball and the painted iron roses and leaves that he had to make to complete his apprenticeship.
"That's because engineer is a generic term - in the UK, Chartered Engineer is probably what you're looking for."
Unofficially, the capital E is allowed for a shortened form of Chartered status - "Engineer", "engineer" is for the others.
In IT, I generally think of people who call themselves engineers as those who have managed to stop themselves from licking the keyboard. Engineers will at least have had the presence of mind to initiate some sort of health and safety or HACCP investigation before they start licking the keyboard or they will go for the screen instead. Anyone licking the mouse is obviously a user and not an engineer.
Actually you have to have studied engineering and get a degree in order to be allowed to call yourself an engineer. You know, like it should be. And in the civilised world it is.... ;)
I don't give a damn about job titles. It is what the person actually does that counts. There are plenty of people who don't have degrees in engineering, or degrees at all, who actually do real engineering. Generally by physically making stuff like boats or buildings or writing software.
And if having the legally protected title of "engineer" stirs the same feelings of admiration, veneration and respect that it does for "solicitor" and "accountant", then I'll give it a miss.
That's why there are European designations (EurIng?) and titles for qualified engineers, surely?
Even in the UK, someone who doesn't have the formal qualifications used to have alternative routes to getting Chartered Engineer status. After a physics degree and thirty years engineering work I came very close to getting formal CEng status a few years back, but my then employers attitude to CPD made me think again.
I'm sure the Institute of Engineering and Technology is looking after the interests of professional engineers in the UK. Not.
"I'm sure the Institute of Engineering and Technology is looking after the interests of professional engineers in the UK. Not."
It's way, way too late for that, at least in terms of the use of "engineer". In the UK at least, "engineer" became the guy who operated the then static steam engines at the beginnings of the industrial revolution.
In the US, the technical term is "Professional Engineer", or PE, for short. To be one, you have to pass a "Registered Professional Engineer" test and have some experience, and be licensed by the state.
As an EE, there's very little reason to do this, because the test and certification is heavily biased towards Civil and Mechanical engineering (i.e.: those who stamp blueprints). However, at the end of my college career, I was encouraged to take the Engineer In Training (EIT) test. I saw no reason to, as I was going to be designing computers. A few did, and I know of two who went to work in the power industry, where the certificate would have been useful.
Oregon, in my humble opinion, is full of what makes the grass grow green. It's sad to see the state that was home to Tektronix pulling this kind of stuff. Bureaucrats being bureaucrats, I guess (while seeing an opportunity to supplement their meager budget, while simultaneously smacking down someone who dares expose the state's moneymaking scheme)
It's demeaning to real engineers that had to get a bunch of A Levels, do a 3 to 4 year University degree and in some cases nearly a year of work experience before they are called an Engineer.
I'm a qualified engineer and I could care less, I know the difference - and if I ever leave software and go back into engineering - employers know the difference; the rest is window dressing. It's certainly not demeaning.
Most people who care are the sort of people who join trade bodies and shockingly those bodies are pay to play which is totally something to get excited about. If you pay your subs you're an engineer and if you don't you're not by their standards. I've built things and I've forgotten more about engineering that some of those guys will ever learn.
On topic though: wat.