back to article We're 'heartbroken' we got caught selling your email records to Uber, says Unroll.me boss

Jojo Hedaya, the CEO of email summarizer Unroll.me, has apologized to his users for not telling them clearly enough that they are the product, not his website. Unroll.me is owned by analytics outfit Slice Intelligence, and the site began life in 2011 with a fairly useful function. Its software crawls through your email inbox, …

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  1. hellwig

    Just don't do it

    Don't give some website the password to your email account and assume they aren't going to do something nefarious with it. Trust No-one, it's not just paranoia, it's a good way to live your life on the internet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just don't do it

      Don't give some website the password to your email account and assume they aren't going to do something nefarious with it.

      .. and that includes LinkedIn. Of course, if you're using Google you have already allowed them access to your mailbox by default..

      1. Dave559 Silver badge

        Re: Just don't do it

        Google is even worse: if you have a friend who uses GMail, Google get to scan the email messages that you write to your friend (and their replies to you), all without your explicit consent to this. I imagine that Google probably use this to create a shadow profile for you as well, just waiting for the day that they can tie it in to whichever of Google's mantraps laid all over the internet (Analytics, APIs, Captchas, etc) manages to also ensnare you via somebody else's website.

      2. a_yank_lurker

        Re: Just don't do it

        I assume the email provider can scan emails even if only for a brief period of time. However, giving anyone else any password is below idiotic. The first rule of good security practice is never share any password even if it is 'password'.

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      The service is "complementary"*

      It's not free.

      *Complementary to us making money off you that is.

      "Free" service owned by a company that does web analytics. How else was that going to work?

    3. Chris 3

      Re: Just don't do it

      I'm still astonished by the number of people who use Whatsapp -which demands access to *all* your contacts

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Just don't do it

        I don't like facebook, I hate the fact that facebook own WhatsApp. I care about my privacy, however I do use WhatsApp and I feel that a messaging app has a legitimate use for access to your contacts.

        Every text messaging app does, every multipurpose communication app does. It appears to access your contact so it knows which ones are using WhatsApp so that they can be sent a message, added to groups etc. It also allows you to select a contact to send a message to, otherwise you would have to go to your contacts, copy the phone number paste it in to WhatsApp, wait for it to contact the server to see if they were also a user, then send the message.

        i would prefer any app to have the absolute minimum permissions, and the new granular controls in Android 6 work well. But I can't condemn a messaging app for accessing your contacts. Waze accesses your contacts to and has done since well before Google got hold of it - they were generally regarded as an ok company.

      2. Triggerfish

        Re: Just don't do it

        I know what you mean about Whatsapp, problem is, like may of these things it's so bloody handy at times.

  2. Jonathan 27

    Wow, that's pretty bad. That's exactly what I'm always worried that Google is doing with my Gmail.

    1. gypsythief

      Even Google Aren't That Bad

      Google aren't as bad as that (yet!). As I understand it the way it works with Google is that they read your emails, and see, for instance, that you have a bunch of emails back and forth with your friends about a trip to Benidorm.

      The Benidorm Tourist Board then says to Google "Can you run this advert for us, and show it to people who are interested in going to Benidorm?"

      You then see an advert for hotels in Benidorm alongside your emails. The critical bit with this system is that Google do not allow the Benidorm Tourist Board access to your emails, or even let them know who is interested. The system anonymises the data, and hides you (the product) from the customer (the advertiser).

      This bunch of cowboys* however seem to be simply selling peoples actual emails to third parties, lock, stock and subject line.

      *With no offence meant to the fine cattle ranchers of the Wild West.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

        Do you work for Google and know what Google does with people's email? Targeted ads is probably just the simplest way to monetize all those data.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

        Even if that is all Google is doing, the fact still remains that Google is collecting a fantastic amount of information about people. Why anyone would voluntarily give Google access to their inbox, their text messages, their browsing history, etc. is beyond me. Yeah, yeah, I know, because Gmail is free, Chrome is free, Android is cheap, etc.

        Most Register readers who do so are at least likely going into it knowing how much they're giving up, so while I would never make the decision they do, they just place a different value on their privacy (or assume for some reason that every alternative is just as bad, even if their privacy policy expressly prevents it)

        The general public though has no real idea that using Chrome means Google is able to get a list of every single web site they visit, what ads they see, what they block, those who use Gmail give them access to the list of email addresses they send/receive email with and the full text of their emails, those who use Android give them access to their text messages, app usage, call history and on and on. That Google isn't directly selling this as a giant database to third parties to do evil things with is small comfort, when Google itself does all the evil things you are concerned others will do with it (other than use the info to steal from you)

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

          "Why anyone would voluntarily give Google access to their inbox, their text messages, their browsing history, etc. is beyond me.

          ...

          The general public though has no real idea that using Chrome means Google is able to get a list of every single web site they visit, what ads they see, what they block,..."

          Whilst I appreciate the concern, my first thoughts was that clause in the Win10 EULA, which permits MS to exactly what Unroll.me has done. As you say "the general public has no real idea"...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

            It is actually worse with Windows 10 because in the past Microsoft didn't do that. They should have stuck to what they know, which is selling an OS and office/business software.

            Back in the mid 90s they decided they wanted to try to be AOL, and that failed miserably with MSN. Then they wanted to be Sony and sell game consoles, and they still haven't broken even overall due to all the losses they've taken in the past. Then they wanted to be Apple and sell music players, which failed - with the turd brown Zune being unintentional irony. Then they decided they wanted to be Google and do search, and only get market share for Bing by paying PC makers to make it the default search. So they decided to be Google again and bought an online advertising firm for $6 billion, which they quickly were forced to write off. So they went back to trying to be Apple, this time they wanted to be even more Apple than last time, and make their own hardware, so they bought Nokia to sell their own branded phones and that was an even more expensive disaster than the others.

            So now they're taking another crack at being Google, and the result was Windows 10 Spyware Edition. Rather than trying to do new products which have always failed, this time they're doing it by messing with their cash cow. It could end up as their most expensive failure yet if the public decides they are sick of all the tracking and data collection!

            1. sabroni Silver badge

              Re: It is actually worse with Windows 10

              I disagree. Users can uninstall Windows 10. Try using the internet without Google watching and see how far you get.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: It is actually worse with Windows 10

                Very easy to use the internet without Google tracking you, lots of privacy addons to choose from, and avoid Chrome. Easy.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: It is actually worse with Windows 10

                  Very easy to use the internet without Google tracking you, lots of privacy addons to choose from, and avoid Chrome. Easy.

                  Not quite. You also have Google fonts (but that's more atmospherics -background intel- as that is cached after the first download, assuming they don't change the font cache idents every hour), Google's flat-out ignoring of "do not track", the near ubiquitous use of Google Analytics and even even if you're not enough of an idiot to install Google's answer to do not track (yes, really, they want you to install something to stop you tracking them) there are, for instance, Joomla plugins that still feed Google statistics despite any blocking on your behalf.

                  And, let's not forget, your IP address plus browser information is also a form of fingerprinting, especially if the browser can be queried on what else it has installed, and Google also owns a set of other tracking outfits that will follow you around the web but will not be labelled "Google". Youtube, for instance, also gathers data, and DoubleClick.

                  Last but not least, if you made the mistake of getting a Google account in your own name (that's why they try to mandate that you use your own name - it validates a legal agreement), it may be worth reading this little story. Just in case.

            2. Terry 6 Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

              DougS Have a pint.

              I thought this was just going to be a standard El Reg Microsoft Is Evil diatribe of the sort that appears in any post criticising any bunch that isn't actually Microsoft. ( As in; "Microsoft is even more evil than the Evil Empire").

              But actually that initial point is quite rational. It makes a lot of sense. Microsoft has been the main OS that we ( almost everyone) bought as a package with our computers. But they have decided to get paid twice, by substituting a platform that takes our data and feeds us adverts. And underlying that is the culture of trying to chase whichever company they perceive as successful, rather than developing their own new products that the the public/business might need.

              My guess is that they lost confidence when they first failed to realise that the internet might be a thing and had to catch up. Everything else they've done has been either an also-ran or a random new thing that made the product worse ( Ribbon, WIn 8 interface etc.). Even when their product was good- the mice and keyboards all seemed pretty good and my trusty Windows phone is good- it's been some combination of too late, too expensive and too far behind the competition.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

                My guess is that they lost confidence when they first failed to realise that the internet might be a thing and had to catch up.

                I think it has been all about Wall Street. They couldn't keep the fantasic growth rate that propelled their stock in the 90s with the current business, so they had to branch out into new ones. That's why the stock peaked in early 2000 and slowly fell since then as they failed again and again to come up with other businesses.

                When they finally wrapped their heads around the decline in PC sales (probably took a few years after being spoon fed Gartner drivel about how it was a temporary blip that would reverse itself "next" year until they finally realized Gartner doesn't know shit) they panicked, because they knew they couldn't make a success of other businesses but now their cash cow was in decline.

                That's when they decided it was time to double dip, and profit from Windows both at the time of sale, and on an ongoing basis by stealing personal information from clueless users who don't realize it is happening and don't know to turn it off. And lo and behold Wall Street has rewarded this strategy as the stock finally exceeded that turn of the millennium all time high last fall.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Wall St

                  "And lo and behold Wall Street has rewarded this strategy as the stock finally exceeded that turn of the millennium all time high last fall."

                  On the data I am looking at from Yahoo Finance, MSFT stock price exceeded it's .com peak already 3 years ago, not last fall, so the selling data via Win 10 theory does not stack up. The reason for their financial success has been their successful strategy to move people onto Office 365.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Wall St

                    The reason for their financial success has been their successful strategy to move people onto Office 365.

                    Well, here is one about to drop off. I'm going to hunt down a few copies of Office 2013 for Windows and Mac, because there is far too much traffic leaving my systems after installation of Office 365.

                    Even on macOS you have to dig for the update process, the very fact that they didn't leave that bit of software on the main MS Office folder is a hint that they don't want you to take too close a look at what it's up to, and the past few years have given me no reason to trust Microsoft in any way, rather the opposite.

                    We only need it to exchange info with all the other lemmings out there, our internal demands are satisfied with LibreOffice (no complex spreadsheets and no Outlook addicts, which is properly broken in 365/2016 anyway).

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    @Cavehomme2

                    The data you are looking at must not properly account for the creation/removal of new shares.

                    https://www.recode.net/2016/10/21/13358756/microsoft-stock-all-time-high

            3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

              Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

              Rather than trying to do new products which have always failed, this time they're doing it by messing with their cash cow. It could end up as their most expensive failure yet if the public decides they are sick of all the tracking and data collection!

              Let's hope so!

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Even Google Aren't That Bad

        Google aren't as bad as that (yet!).

        And you know this how? I hope you're not going to point me at the carefully worded guff on their site because that merely means you need a course of reading between the lines and analysing information.

        First of all, if you actually READ their Terms, they state that any data you give Google they can keep. Forever. Secondly, you have given them permission to alter that data but there are no conditions attached to that which force Google to state that it has done so. In other words, Google can manipulate the data it spreads about you because you gave them permission - quite a fun tool to have if someone is acting against Google's interest, no?

        Last but not least, Google is also reading other people's email (those that send email to you), which it happens to do WITHOUT their permission, a breach of EU data protection rules that is only kept quiet because of political reasons (go ahead, ask any Information Commissioner just how legal it is in your country - you may get a verbal answer, but not a written one).

  3. ma1010
    Facepalm

    Is there a fee?

    If there isn't a fee for a given Internet "service," you can be certain that selling your information is what keeps the lights on and the servers running. Did you think they were running a charity?

    And giving a third party who isn't your email provider access to your email? Can't be a good idea.

    If you want private email, subscribe to a for-fee service, like fastmail.com, and don't let anyone else have access to your email box. That way, only the CIA, NSA, FBI, GCHQ, SIS, DGSE, FSB, etc. have access to your email. Oh, and Microsoft, if you use their products.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Is there a fee?

      "And giving a third party who isn't your email provider access to your email? Can't be a good idea."

      It's quite possibly breaking the Ts&Cs of your email provider too.

    2. elDog

      Re: Is there a fee?

      Anyone running a MS browser reading this site? How about Chrome? Perhaps Firefox?

      It doesn't stretch my imagination at all to think that the browsers themselves are funding their operations (well, mainly their CEO's lifestyles) by selling everything they can gather about your communications before it enters that "secure" tunnel that is called SSL.

      For some reason I always get down-voted when I suggest this, but perhaps I'm using Google Chrome and it is automatic.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Do yourself a favor and immediately stop using it.

    you mean, STOP USING FACEBOOK?!

    And what's the difference between being f... by a third party scumbags, v. first party Do No Evil Corporations? They both fart in your general direction and - you were warned (it's free! it's FREE!!!)

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If something is free...

    ...YOU are the product being sold.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If something is free...

      What is the annual El Reg subscription fee, again? :)

      1. Stevie

        Re: If something is free...

        Haven't you noticed your sidebar content? Or tried to use the El Reg app with it's eyeblinding banners that contravene everything El Reg says good advertisers should do when formatting such banner ads?

        I rather thought that went a long way to paying for El Reg.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: If something is free...

          Haven't you noticed your sidebar content? Or tried to use the El Reg app with it's eyeblinding banners that contravene everything El Reg says good advertisers should do when formatting such banner ads?

          I rather thought that went a long way to paying for El Reg.

          I wonder if it does? After all they known what pisses us techies off, they have had plenty of artcles on it and then they do it themselves, and considering the audience I am guessing a lot have just blocked everything. We are one of the worst audiences to foist adds on anyway, before we are actively forced to kill them with fire.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Big Brother

        Re: El Reg

        Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself.

        He loved Dev Ops.

  6. Jim-234

    once again Uber...

    So Uber is backhandedly trying to undercut Lyft with some pretty down and dirty tricks once again.

    Seems there is nothing too low or dirty for them to stoop to.

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: once again Uber...

      Uber is mob tactics on all possible levels.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: once again Uber...

      ....nothing too low...

      Well, they did disband their chemical warfare division...

      1. Rich 11

        Re: once again Uber...

        Well, they did disband their chemical warfare division...

        But how can we be sure?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: once again Uber...

          you're right, we should bomb them right away

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      Re: once again Uber...Seems there is nothing too low or dirty for them to stoop to.

      I think that's the unofficial company motto. *

      *Or possibly "We are the underminers. We are beneath everybody, but nothing is beneath us."

  7. John 104

    Hilarious on all sides

    Serves anyone right who is dumb enough to think that free web services don't come with a cost. What? Do you think services are provided by the goodness of their hearts? The naivety of the average user is so comical its almost tragic. Almost. If you are savvy enough to know how most 'free' web services work and you use them, you have calculated the risk and good on you. For the remaining 99.9% of users, what a bunch of fucking morons. The jilted responses quoted in the article are proof positive.

    Time for the general public to wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe this will be a --- "wait, what's that? its free? Sign me up!"

    Never mind....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hilarious on all sides

      Yes there are many naive users out there, but there are very many who DO know but do not care, because they want everything free, and I mean everything. They see the value of nothing, not even their ownp privacy. Freeloaders, freetards, call them whatever, but it's a virus that is going to destroy us. It's especially important to have high quaity, balanced news, and that needs to be paid for, but no-one wants to pay today.

      1. Kiwi

        Re: Hilarious on all sides

        It's especially important to have high quaity, balanced news, and that needs to be paid for, but no-one wants to pay today.

        I used to buy the Dominion Post daily. Until their articles fell below the quality at which I could no longer justify buying their stuff. Nowadays I get most of my news from El Reg. Though I've matured some and these days I'm not interested in the pain of others unless it affects someone I care about or it is something I can do something about.

        Anyway. Point is that many people pay, but papers and other organisations are still producing rubbish. Much of the news media is a waste of time now. Critical thinking is a thing of the past for most people, and the news only has to be interesting to enough people for the bills to be paid. Why put yourself at risk doing some decent reporting on government corruption or gangs or some corporate shenanigans when you can put in a few seconds of some politician spouting rubbish, fudge a few stats, and still be paid anyway?

  8. fidodogbreath

    It's an outrage, I tell ya

    I can't imagine why Unroll.me thought it was OK to monetize the contents of my GMail account!

    Huh? No, I didn't read it. No, I didn't read the GMail T&C either. Why do you ask?

    Really? What about my Android phone, surely they don't....

    Oh, that too?

    Never mind.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: It's an outrage, I tell ya

      >Huh? No, I didn't read it. No, I didn't read the GMail T&C either. Why do you ask?

      Well life is too short, remember there was that group who published some research into the amount of time needed to actually read all the Ts&Cs of service for all the various software and services typical users use. shame the UK is leaving the EU, as I suspect the next step will be for the EU to set and enforce standard Ts&Cs for EULAs.

      1. Mephistro
        Thumb Up

        Re: It's an outrage, I tell ya

        "...I suspect the next step will be for the EU to set and enforce standard Ts&Cs for EULAs."

        YES! YES! PLEASE!

        And about fucking time!

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge

          Re: It's an outrage, I tell ya

          The current EU case law is more or less that EULAs don't exist.

          The really important thing to remember as an EU citizen is that it doesn't matter what the EULA says, as a consumer you cannot give up your rights. Ever.

          So what they did may well be outright illegal. In the EU.

          Outside the EU on the other hand...

  9. Stevie

    Bah!

    How did everyone think this service got paid for?

    Azathoth's Starry Scrotum, I despair of my fellow humans sometimes.

    1. Triggerfish

      Re: Bah!

      How did everyone think this service got paid for?

      I know what you mean but there is free software out there on the web, maybe some people think apps / services can be similar.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't get it...

    So much betrayal... And yet Sheeple still trust their lives to such disingenuous services... I actively unplug now. That's what betrayal does to me, but others hey they just lap it all up???

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