nav search
Data Center Software Security Transformation DevOps Business Personal Tech Science Emergent Tech Bootnotes BOFH

back to article
Hard-pressed Juicero boss defends $400 IoT juicer after squeezing $120m from investors

Gold badge
Unhappy

All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

with added IoT goodness.

F**k right off.

30
0

Re: All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

In the HP model, a firmware update would make third-party fruit go mouldy.

35
0
Silver badge

Re: All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

In the HP model the juicer itself would be sold well below cost and the profits all made on the pre-packaged fruit.

In this model the juicer is eye-wateringly expensive, and I'm sure the fruit packs aren't cheap either.

But ... and this is the real problem with the device ... you are restricted to using the manufacturer's own prepackaged mixtures of fruits and vegetables. You can't make up a mixture to suit your own taste, and you can't use fruit that's actually -- you know -- fresh!

It combines the inconvenience of having to squeeze your own juice with the restrictions of pre-packaged ingredients ... then it adds IoT foolishness just in case you still thought there might be something there to like.

32
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

The juice packs apparently cost between $5 and $8 each (i.e. £4 to £6 or so) and all appear to be 10oz (283g in weight). I heard somewhere how much juice they're supposed to make; it was something like 225 to 250ml (8 US fl oz IIRC).

The bottom line is you're paying that much for a midsized glass of juice on top of the cost of the overpriced contraption that can't even function as a regular juicer and does little you can't do yourself to the packs.

Not that anyone who hadn't already invested in the IoT-enabled status symbol would likely *want* to waste their money on the obscenely expensive juice packs anyway.

Add to that the amount of packaging and general overheads associated with each pack; like Keurig, but even more inefficient. Obnoxious, wasteful, marketing-driven yuppie b******t. Everything that's wrong with "gadgets".

As others have said, this is one of those products that you really *want* to fail, along with everyone associated with the project.

29
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

"In the HP model, a firmware update would make third-party fruit go mouldy."

You mean it would only work with official "HP Fruity" cartridges like this?

3
0
Silver badge

Re: All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

Why do you think this thing requires a wifi connection?

1
0
Facepalm

Re: All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)

Why do you think this thing requires a wifi connection? becuse everything does & how else will our lords and masters know what fruity stuff you are drinking!

0
0
Silver badge
Windows

ahhh buzzword bingo.

Gotta lurrvve it.

ITS NEW all new SNAKE OIL buzzword, cliche, tired cliche, hippy hippy shake shake. BUY EEET NAO!

a) packaged organic veggies and fruit, all chopped up. Hmm. No thanks. Listeria. Shelf life of hours, or they're sprayed with appropriate preservatives, and are thus not in the category of the buzzword "Organic". Yes, lemon juice works, but we're talking the *BUZZWORD* organic.

Thanks I'll cut em up myself. After buying em from the local market. Whole. Or (perhaps) picking em out o my garden.

(what? a knife and 10 seconds in the appropriate $45 blending device, pour into glass, toss warm water and a drop o soap in appropriate blending device, reactivate blending, cleaned)

b) $400 for a @#$%@#$ juicer? no - absolutely not. for an IOT Juicer? I think my opinion on IOT bullshit brain baffler devices is known. This project needs to die yesterday.

/ yes I'm in a pissy mood. 2am and byte walking tapes to repair block headers. Don't talk to me.

25
0

Re: ahhh buzzword bingo.

It starts even before the chopping: they harvest the fruits at the pick time, and still offer it freshly harvested all year round...

5
0

Re: ahhh buzzword bingo.

Yes! I was waiting for mention that the fruit packs will be delivered by drone and the presser plays whalesong.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Juicing is bad

It smashes the cell walls of the fruit inceasing the amount of sugar released.

Also - you are not a baby - why do you want your food pureed

Eat the fruit normally and get the benefit of the fibre bulk to fill you up without the excess calories fine blending causes.

21
6
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

Also destroys the fibre.

More importantly, do you really need the sugar from 3 oranges?

8
3

Re: Juicing is bad

It smashes the cell walls of the fruit inceasing the amount of sugar released.

...

Eat the fruit normally and get the benefit of the fibre bulk to fill you up without the excess calories fine blending causes.

If you eat the fruit, do those sugars not get digested in the same way? Surely blending won't magically generate extra calories - they're there anyway, right?

(genuine question, as I'm curious)

14
0
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

If you eat the fruit, you get filled not just with juice but also with fibre, thus aiding you to consume less of the sugar (because you get filled quicker). Also, fibre is apparently good for your digestive system.

7
2
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

Sugar released is not particularly relevant as you will get it anyway.

The "bad tirade" of instant juicing are:

1. Removal of Fiber

2. Oxidation

3. Increased damage to teeth from acids and sugar

Juice it only if it is a real PITA to eat otherwise - grapefruit, wild apples and pears, etc. Otherwise just eat it. Much better for you.

As far as "sugar from 3 oranges" your burn rate at max "brain revs" is > 250 calories per hour. An orange is only 50 calories. If you get proper breakfast, lunch and dinner you are still looking at 1-2 oranges an hour to keep the thinking machine going (brain wants sugar, it could not care less about other forms of energy. If you are not getting a proper lunch as is the case in most modern offices, you are looking at cranking that up to >2 oranges per hour (either that or the cookie/choc jar which is much much worse).

7
0

Re: Juicing is bad

Yep, I'm diabetic and fruit juice or raw fruit can be equally just as bad for me as a can of coke. Preparation method is irrelevant.

5
1
404
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

Grapefruit.... My Ghod, do you know how long it has been since I had a grapefruit? I recall I liked them... Hmmm

I don't remember. Pretty sure I was still living w/parents. Fuck. That means 35+ years ago, minimum. Have to go by the store today.

On Topic-> That machine should have been sold on QVC or the Home Shopping Network, but they want to be Apple, mixed with a little HP dicketry. They attempted to sell it at $699 at first, but that proved to be a bit much for the folks who cannot afford to hire fitness trainers... I understand they have delivery issues to parts of the country because the packets have next to zero shelf life (which is odd because I can order live tropical fish from a breeder in Oregon and have them 3-day shipped to Tennessee with possible 1-2 losses from a group of ten). You also cannot buy juice packets unless you already are a registered owner of said kitchen counter clutterer.

I also suspect those 'fresh vegetables' are the leftovers from processing fruit for other uses - a'la pink slime bits and pieces.

6
0
Silver badge

Re: Increased damage to teeth from acids and sugar

No poblem! Simply use the Steviematic Matrix-Enabled Electric IoToothbrush!

Simply nip over to Stevietat.com (the Steviematic Matrix-Enabled Electric IoToothbrush is not available in stores) and simply click on the "BUY NOW!!!" button and your Steviematic Matrix-Enabled Electric IoToothbrush will be rushed to your door, along with ONE WHOLE MONTH's supply of IoToothpaste (a one hundred dollar value!)!

Then, after simply charging the Steviematic Matrix-Enabled Electric IoToothbrush for three hours and simply connecting it to your network via our easy-to-understand app for Windows (our eager tech support team are standing by to help you with this at the special introductory rate of eight dollars and thirty four cents a minute) you are ready to start fighting off the pernicious effects of your juicer.

Simply open the hopper door of your Steviematic Matrix-Enabled Electric IoToothbrush, and slip In a cartridge of IoToothpaste, press the red button and simply follow the directions on the included leaflet. It is often helpful to fully unfold this and to tape it to the bathroom wall before using your Steviematic Matrix-Enabled Electric IoToothbrush for the first time.

We here at Stevietat PLC are committed to giving you the best oral hygene that your money can buy.

18
0
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

If you eat the fruit, do those sugars not get digested in the same way?

The same amount of sugars, but not digested in the same way. The problem is with the time it takes for your blood sugar to rise. Whole fruit has a lower glycaemic index than fruit juice. Many fruit juices deliver the same glycaemic load as a glass of Coke.

Also, a recent study reported that prepared, bagged salads could carry a dangerous risk of salmonella because the juices on the cut ends of the leaves are an ideal growth medium for bacteria. I would guess that the juices in a bag of cut fruit are salmonella heaven.

12
0
Silver badge
Boffin

Re: Juicing is bad

"Grapefruit". Be careful with graprefruit if you're taking certain drugs. As any fule kno, grapefruit juice decreases the activity of the cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) enzymes that are responsible for breaking down many drugs and toxins. Grapefruit contains compounds known as furanocoumarins that block the CYP3A4 enzymes.

No really!

https://www.drugs.com/article/grapefruit-drug-interactions.html

10
0
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

"That means 35+ years ago, minimum."

So, you are now at or about the age when doctors start prescribing 'statins by default, which almost all include avoiding grapefruit in the warnings paperwork. Get some quick! :-)

4
0
Silver badge

Re: Juicing is bad

@AIBailey

genuine question, as I'm curious

Yes, you are consuming the same quantity of sugar from the fruit and therefore the same amount of calories, but the rate of absorption of those sugars is different to if you had juiced the fruit or ate the fruit.

The process of mastication (chewing) will not doubt cause crushing and breaking down of a certain amount of cell walls, but the bulk of the fruit mass will still reach the stomach in an intact state, leaving it for the enzymes to breakdown the cells and release the content which takes some time, and therefore the sugar is made available to the body over a period of time - Low Glycemic Index.

Consuming juice means directly ingesting the available sugar from the fruit which is readily absorbed and carried in the blood. High Glycemic Index.

High GI results in a blood sugar rush and the pancreas has to supply insulin at a greater rate...

see https://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/glycemic-index

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Enjoy-food/Carbohydrates-and-diabetes/Glycaemic-index-and-diabetes/

4
0
Bronze badge

Re: Juicing is bad

It's funny how fruit juice went from being "good for you" to being "bad for you" almost exactly the same time as it went from being expensive enough that only rich people could afford it to being cheap enough that even poor people could afford it .....

5
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Juicing is bad

>It's funny how fruit juice went from being "good for you" to being "bad for you" almost exactly the same time as it went from being expensive enough that only rich people could afford it to being cheap enough that even poor people could afford it .....<

Exactly, and so it has happened for many other things!

"Vulgarisation" it is often called, i.e. when the bourgeois and the proletarians get access to it, the "Cool Kids" no longer wants it.

In this forum, I have seen many cases of it, not limited to food:

Gmail

iPhone

Android

E-Ink

Google Chrome

Mozilla Firefox

Capsule-coffee

Wearable fitness devices

PDA

Windows !

Feel free to add to the list!

1
0

Re: Juicing is bad

Reminded of seeing a grauniad article from some yuppie talking about avocados, that seriously asked the question of whether they'd become too cheap and accessible to be "aspirational".

2
0

Re: Juicing is bad

Depends how you define digestion. But the short answer is no, they don't get digested the same way.

The fruit with benefit of fibre has a lower glycemic index. That's an attempt to quantify the effect a food has on your serum insulin levels. Why do we care? Because what your body decides to do with the calories you eat is heavily impacted by your insulin levels. All other things being equal, the higher your insulin, the greater proportion of your ingested calories goes to fat. This is why low carb diets work-- they keep your insulin levels low.

2
0

Re: Juicing is bad

Yes, but you eat LESS fruit when you eat it whole than when you juice it. It takes 2 - 4 oranges to make a glass of orange juice, but if you eat one orange (with all the pulp and fiber) you're likely to feel full and not eat three more, so you get 1/4 of the sugar.

1
0
Silver badge
Devil

The value of Juicero is more than a glass of cold-pressed juice

Exactly. But the value is not to the juser, rather to the company. Although I'm hard-pressed to see enough poor saps buying the machine and its ink cartridgesfruit packs to get the company to stay liquid, even with the sales talk where Jeff Dunn managed to squeeze in most of the currantly fashionable buzzwords. Also, as it's IoT, it's certain to leak sensitive data all over the place.

Clearly you've got to be nuts to buy a machine like this.

20
0
Silver badge
Trollface

Re: The value of Juicero is more than a glass of cold-pressed juice

Clearly you'd have to be more then a little fruity to buy a machine like this.

Ftfy... :P

18
0

Re: The value of Juicero is more than a glass of cold-pressed juice

"Juicero’s mission is to make it dramatically easier and more enjoyable to consume more fresh, raw fruits and vegetables, and that’s a really tough nut to crack. "

...said in all seriousness. I think we know where the nuts went.

13
0
Silver badge

Sadly ...

... the people investing in this product probably don't know that people have been squeezing fruit for juice at home for a very long time. Wine making has been dated to over 10,000 years ago ...

11
1
Anonymous Coward

"people have been squeezing fruit for juice at home for a very long time."

Back in the day I was staying with this old Yugoslavian and his family who made wine with bunches of grapes, a bucket and an old laundry mangle.

People take the term "press" far too literally.

3
0
Silver badge

Re: "people have been squeezing fruit for juice at home for a very long time."

a bucket and an old laundry mangle. How primitive...

The most sold household item on the Balkans (including what was Yugoslavia) in my childhood was the Eureka washing machine. This contraption has separate washing and centrifuge compartments with top loading for both and easily disabled safety.

Here is a modern version of the same appliance: https://iak.olx.ph/images_olxph/824890925_4_1000x700.jpg?rev=001&bucket=04

As you can see - the design has remained virtually unchanged for 40 years despite it being large, ungainly and double the size of a normal washing machine. There is a reason for this - it has an alternative application in addition to washing - Grapes into the centrifuge, output hose into the cask, power, let's rolllllllll.... As the centrifuge is top loaded you can just dump them with a bucket. There is no drain pump - it is 100% gravity drained so there is nothing to go wrong too.

By the way - it costs less than 1/3rd of the contraption discussed here too.

13
0
Anonymous Coward

"a bucket and an old laundry mangle. How primitive..."

He was old school. He left (the former) Yugoslavia shortly after WWII (there may have been a little misunderstanding about alleged war crimes). One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. And in Yugoslavia one man's Royalist is another man's Nazi sympathizer (or not) and so on.

In the West the generic term for this is a "twin tub." I'm not sure if they are quite as large, or with such easily disabled safety devices.

2
0
Silver badge
Happy

Re: "people have been squeezing fruit for juice at home for a very long time."

By the way - it costs less than 1/3rd of the contraption discussed here too.

And for that low, low price you not only get a juicer that does not take space on your counter top, it *is* its own counter top (if you close the lid), and you can even wash your clothes in it.

6
0

Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

Donning my flameproof pants here, I'd sign up for this if I had the money. I think they've cocked up the marketing and put too much emphasis on the IoT bullshit, but the fundamental premise sounds valid and they have the potential to deliver a useful service. We know that we have to eat more veg, the more the better. You can maximise the benefits by juicing them, so that you're able to take in even more of the valuable nutrients, without eating a ton of spinach, for instance. This is a bit different to making a peach and ice cream smoothie in your hand-me-down blender.

For those of us that have the time to wander off to the market or grow their own - excellent, you've clearly made good decisions in your life - many of us don't have that kind of time readily available. I bought a juicer and try to periodically make myself a big bottle of "green juice" to have during the day - when I do, my energy levels are higher and I can think more clearly than usual. It makes me feel great, the effects are more tangible than any vitamins or supplements I've ever taken. I usually put in at least two bunches of spinach or kale, a cucumber, carrots, a whole broccoli, maybe green beans, and some ginger or apples to make it all palatable. I couldn't eat that much veg if I tried.

BUT(t) - it's a pain in the ass - you want the produce to be fairly fresh, so you need to be buying it every 2nd or 3rd day. It makes a mess and the machine is a hassle to clean (according to the reviews I read, my machine is one of the easier to clean). Here in my country there are one or two companies commercially producing and selling tiny bottles of pure veg and fruit juice, but they cost a fortune. From the CEO's letter, this crowd are working on the whole supply chain to make it easier to get the benefits of fresh juice in your home without the hassle. Power to them.

1
13

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

Actually I sort of agree with you here. My smoothie maker regularly gets fed with pre-packed pre-cut fruits and frozen packs of berry mix for the very reasons you expound - I simply don't have the time/inclination to go fresh fruit shopping every couple of days (in other words, ICBA).

Why on Earth anyone would need/want an Internet-enabled juicer or smoothie maker is, however, completely beyond me.

7
1

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

Ok, I'll bite. Exactly which "valuable nutrients" in veg makes them healthy? Guess what. Despite vast sums spent on research, you can ask any dietitian, nutritionist, professor of nutrition science, etc etc and they simply don't know. They can't even hazard a reasonable guess as a starting point for further research. Is chlorophyll some sort of mysterious unrecognised wonder-food? Is it the water in them? Maybe the cellulose? We know for sure (the science has been done) it is not eating an excess of vitamins.

So your "energy levels" are higher after drinking "green juice"? Ah the power of the human mind. What pharmaco-physiological effects do you think might be boosting your "energy levels" beyond, say, some carbohydrates (in which case try some of your favourite sugar-filled fizzy drink instead).

And the evidence behind the "3-a-day", or "8-a-day", or "5-a-day" fad? Wow, if you want to see some flaky science full of vague assumptions look at where these figures come from.

Basically, food is a zillion-dollar industry so any "science" behind it is systematically distorted and hyped until it is simply no longer recognisable as science. What was Phelp's diet again that produced one of the greatest ever Olympians? (http://www.bravotv.com/blogs/what-olympic-athletes-eat-and-drink-every-day-will-shock-you).

Me? I love food. I enjoy a decent mixed diet including fruit and veg (because I like them not because of any defined health benefit). I am vaguely aware of my calorie intake and am not obese.

15
2

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

I believe we have made it to a 10-a-day recommendation. Probably followed by another piece of research that is either paid for by a vested interest or taken out of context by the press that says fruit and veg is bad and we should only eat moon rock if we want a long life.

All things in moderation and try to get out of the chair long enough to raise the heart rate.

8
0

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

Just sharing my own experience - I do agree that for every nutritional study out there, it's just as easy to find another with apparently opposite findings. However, without getting into a whole big thing, are you really trying to argue that there isn't evidence of useful nutrients being contained in vegetables?

4
1

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

"are you really trying to argue that there isn't evidence of useful nutrients being contained in vegetables?"

No, that would be insane. It was intended as more of a comment on the media, as I am recommended to eat one thing one day and not the next, but wait until tomorrow it will be ok again.

5
0
Bronze badge

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

"For those of us that have the time to wander off to the market or grow their own"

You don't have time to go to the store? Or set up some sort of delivery system? Then go to fugging eatery :)

"you want the produce to be fairly fresh, so you need to be buying it every 2nd or 3rd day."

Going to the supermarket once a week and a market/grocer/bloke on side of road once a week doesn't seem too much of a hassle. Lots of stuff is as "fresh"* when canned or frozen, notably berries and legumes.

"I couldn't eat that much veg if I tried."

Try it. Seriously. Eating vegetables isn't that hard, quick boil and nom nom. I even hear carrots and broccoli can be eaten raw, by using the "food processor" of your teeth. If you don't wank about it no-one really cares, apart from the chewing sounds.

"It makes a mess and the machine is a hassle to clean"

You're doing it wrong, much like the rest of your diet ;)

Now I'm not a fan of juicers/blenders, since they appeal to lazy fuckers, and lazy fuckers don't like to wash up. So after you used it (right after, not when you get round to it) fill it with soapy water, run it, then do the same with clean water.

But I'd think you'd be better off just deciding to actually eat some freaking veggies as part of your normal diet.

My main issue with it is that a diet of apples, carrots, spuds, rice and veggies on the turn was what I ate for six months when broke as fuck. So I can still look at the ingredients of a liter of green juice as often being 4-5 days food. Well, the non starch parts anyway.

* in terms of retaining vitamins and minerals

10
3
Meh

Re: spinach or kale, ... apples

And don't forget a sprinkling of freshly ground placebo.

11
0
Silver badge

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

are you really trying to argue that there isn't evidence of useful nutrients being contained in vegetables?

The weasel-word here is "nutrients". In spite of what self-styled nutritionists tell you, here's nothing intrinsically good about nutrients.

Most food consists of a mixture of nutrients, things absorbed by the body, and non-nutrients such as fibre, that pass right through. A bag of white sugar contains nothing but useful nutrients. It also delivers plenty of energy - another weasel-word. But it's not really a wise food choice.

9
0
Bronze badge

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

The problem I see with this is the proprietary nature of it. You spend a considerable amount of money on this, but have to buy THEIR packaged produce...if they go belly up, or hike their prices, you have an expensive piece of counter-clutter. Plus, at $5-8 each, the packs aren't cheap, but, I'm compelled to admit, aren't as pricey as I thought they might be. I, too, have been conditioned by the printer & ink pricing model.

But the best-insulated box won't keep the stuff suitably chilled if its dropped in a sunny area on a hot summer day at 10 or 11 and not retrieved until you get home 6 or 7 hours later...you could have an entire shipment warmed up to unsafe levels.

If you could make your own packs, might be different. You can keep enjoying the thing even if the company rolls over, and you can create your own blends.

Then there's the IoT aspect, which has its own issues. I'd just as soon walk in, load the thing up, and poke the "go" button, then come back later to retrieve the glass of crushed organic matter.

5
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

"Plus, at $5-8 each, the packs aren't cheap, but, I'm compelled to admit, aren't as pricey as I thought they might be."

I don't know if you got the price from my comment or elsewhere, but did you note that each pack only produces around 250ml of juice?

8
0

Re: "I enjoy a decent mixed diet including fruit and veg"

I think the problem is that too many people don't vary their diet much beyond protein/starch combinations. A balanced diet is always preferable, but for most people, that probably means eating more fruit/veg, hence all the health campaigns that focus on "getting your (x) a day".

2
0
Unhappy

@MonkeyCee

I tried to wank about the carrots, but now I'm banned from Sainsburys.

7
0

"Sugar swings. Serve some."

"A bag of white sugar [..] also delivers plenty of energy"

Indeed it does.

(Sorry for linking to Buzzfeed, but that really does have all the examples I wanted in one place).

2
1
Bronze badge

Re: Easy juice? Sounds good to me.

Popped over to their website, actually - I was reading the articles, I promise. No, I failed to note that 250ml tidbit. Kind of expected single-serve, though. I would expect this is meant to attract itself to the crowd that's already replaced an actual breakfast with a smoothie, so their pricing reflects this as a meal replacement, not an accompaniment. Given the alternative many people might resort to is a fast-food McBreakfast with who-knows-what in it and coffee for five or six bucks...meh.

Maybe you could "cut" the result with commercial juices and get something more to sip on most of a morning.

0
2

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

The Register - Independent news and views for the tech community. Part of Situation Publishing