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Microsoft raises pistol, pulls the trigger on Windows 7, 8 updates for new Intel, AMD chips

Facepalm

Optional

By making sure all new PCs run Windows 10, Redmond will also be able to further inflate the usage numbers for its latest OS...

..and will make others delay their plans to change their hardware and still more to seek alternatives. There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics like this.

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Re: Optional

I am not planning to buy a new processor/mobo in the near future or a new laptop. But these arrogant actions make me more resolved to avoid Slurp at all costs. Also, it makes me more likely to recommend ditching Bloat to those who can.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics blackmail like this.

FTFY.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

If you roll out Windows 10 today, how will you know what the future holds if Microsoft can change the rules at anytime they feel? Microsoft just killed all trust in their Desktop product.

They can do exactly the same for a Windows 10 "Version" (1507/1511/1511_2/1607/1703) down the line as they have done for an OS version indicated by a number i.e. Windows 7.

There is no way off the rolling MS conveyor belt, unless you jump.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

Time to Buy a Disaster recovery gen 6 powered machine so that i have a replacement if my current machine dies (with Genuine Retail W7 Pro)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

"They can do exactly the same for a Windows 10 "Version" (1507/1511/1511_2/1607/1703) down the line"

BUT unless you are a Corporate Customer

You are the Product and have NO choice in upgrading you will just be told the machine needs to reboot and it will have the new version weather you like it or NOT.

Resistance is Futile You WILL be Assimilated. WE are BORG !

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Re: Optional

This affects 8.1 enterprise too. 8.1 is still in mainstream support so this kind of shit shouldnt happen. 7 is at least in extended support.

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Re: Optional

"Microsoft just killed all trust in their Desktop product."

Just?

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Re: Optional

I believe I am having similar problems at the moment, new laptop with a skylake processor but just can't get windows 7 to install which is annoying. Been trying for ages and it just hangs mid install (it could also be some of the laptops newer hardware though) - weirdly win7 works in VMbox perfectly well (does it co-opt the win110 drivers somehow?) so tearing hair out at moment.

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This post has been deleted by its author

Re: unless you are a Corporate Customer

Vendors have already lined up 'Skabylake' - 6th Gen Processor in backward compatible 7th Gen chipset for enterprise customers not ready to make the jump from Win7. Offer only lasts until Skylakes are unavailable.

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Re: Optional

@AC>There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics blackmail like this.

FTFY.

--------

There will always be a resistance to blackmail extortion* like this.

FTFYFTFY

* More appropriate

"Extortion and blackmail are similar in concept, but there are differences between the two. Extortion is a form of theft that occurs when an offender obtains money, property, or services from another person through coercion. To constitute coercion, the necessary act can be the threat of violence, destruction of property, or improper government action. Inaction of the testimony or the withholding of testimony in a legal action are also acts that constitute coercion."

Source:

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/extortion_blackmail.htm

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G2
Stop

Re: Optional

actually, according to

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

(scroll down to the third table on the page)

Windows 10 1507 becomes end-of-life and will have its support retired on May 9, 2017 and only newer editions of Win 10 will remain supported.

Microsoft is moving to windows-as-a-service support model.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

> I believe I am having similar problems at the moment, new laptop with a skylake processor but just can't get windows 7 to install ...

If you're doing the install with the network cable unplugged, then MS can't be sending "kill" updates during the install.

If you're doing it with the network cable plugged in however, try unplugging that first just in case.

It does sound more like driver incompatibility problems though.

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Simple solution

Unless you're a gamer or otherwise have a need for high end graphics performance, run Windows 7 in a VM. I bought a Kaby Lake laptop last fall and I'm running Windows 7 on it just fine (it is a corporate load I copied off the crappy laptop they provided using VMware P2V)

I run it under Linux, but Windows 10 can run VMware Player just as well.

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Re: Optional

And after 2020? FYI: That's only Three Years away!

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Terminator

Re: Optional

"There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics like this."

Those aren't sales tactics. It's the way you MIGHT treat customers who have no alternative but YOU. If you're an asshat that is. Or Micro-shaft.

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Re: Optional

"Redmond will also be able to further inflate the usage numbers for its latest OS..."

Windows 10 is already at over 400 million installs. I doubt they are too worried about the numbers...

This will be partly about cost / resources - why invest money in new features for old OSs? And secondarily about encouraging corporates to think about their path to Windows 10 as they wont be able to get new PCs that run older OS in a supported manner for much longer.

Once businesses move onto Windows 10, it's a continually updating platform concept - so no more expensive planned upgrade OS update cycles should be needed.... SO provided you buy into that concept (and your Windows 10 OS version eventually becomes unsupported if you don't!) then the Windows 10 approach to updates is potentially a significant TCO and ease of maintenance improvement to using Windows devices over the longer term...

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Re: Optional

"If you roll out Windows 10 today, how will you know what the future holds if Microsoft can change the rules at anytime they feel?"

If you don't want to directly cooperate with Microsoft's plans then you can always run older versions of Windows on newer hardware as a VM using Hyper-V Server (which is completely free to use) or as a VM under the newer Windows versions ;-)

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Re: Optional

"There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics like this."

Erm, resistance is futile? Oh, sorry that's Google....

Seriously it will be hard to resist if you simply can't buy the hardware?

As to seeking alternatives, seeing as the most notable deployment of Linux in the workplace in Munich is likely being replaced with Windows after a decade of trying to make it work, I don't think too many CIOs are going to risk that option.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

Agree. Just daring people to move to Chromebook.

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Anonymous Coward

On the other hand, if you do not move to windows 10 do you actually need a new CPU?

Intel/AMD were a bit unwise supporting Microsoft on this front given that anything not compiled with MS development tools doesnt need new hardware on the desktop.

Yes new shiny is nice but the price is getting a bit high when you have to give up your privacy. How about instead just keeping your working kit and not bother with limited new hardware when the old hardware still does the trick.

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Re: Optional

And depending on how far you get... Win7 refuses to boot at all if secure boot is on.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

"Microsoft just already killed all trust in their Desktop product."

FTFY

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Optional

"Windows 10 approach to updates is potentially a significant nightmare and constantly required additional maintenance to using Windows devices over these terms"

ftfy

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Re: Optional

> windows-as-a-service

Windows is pretty much the very opposite of a service.

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@Chika>There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics blackmail like this.

FTFY

Sheesh...

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Re: Optional

Takes a while for some people to get wise...It'd been a pile of poo since its first iteration, back in the 1980s.

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This should help Apple and Linux

How can Microsoft do this legally? Or does anyone care anymore.

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Linux

Re: This should help Apple and Linux

@ITS Retired - "How can Microsoft do this legally?"

For large customers, this will be a contract issue. I suspect that Microsoft's license contract has this area well covered. For consumers, new hardware will come with Windows 10 pre-installed anyway.

@ITS Retired - "Or does anyone care anymore."

The Apple Mac users are whining about how Apple doesn't care about them any more and how Apple hardware is so far behind the curve.

I guess that leaves - Linux. If you care, switch. If you don't care, then get used to Windows 10. Those are all the choices their customers have available.

As for what I've already done personally - see the icon.

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JLV
Silver badge
Joke

Re: This should help Apple and Linux

>Apple hardware is so far behind the curve.

As an (old) Apple MBP owner, I disagree. Recent Apple MBPs are in the middle of the pack in general.

And, far, far, ahead in price!

(Just ordered a 16 GB RAM update. On that model, it wasnt soldered yet. 160$ instead of 500$, a bargain).

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Linux

Re: This should help Apple and Linux

You know what, I'm fine with those choices...

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

I'm not a huge Microsoft hater. I've eventually gotten to like most of their products, and while I've dabbled a bit in Linux it's never really grabbed me.

Thing is, I've been using Windows 10 for over a year on one of my machines (a laptop for college stuff), and I still absolutely hate it. My main desktop at home, my media PC, and my work desktop are all still on 7 - when that reaches EOL, I really won't have any choice but to learn to love Linux.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This should help Apple and Linux

> ... when that reaches EOL, I really won't have any choice but to learn to love Linux.

The BSD's are pretty good too. Just saying. :)

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JLV
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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

>far ahead in price!

hint: maybe we need a sarcasm icon?

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

Apple lost my vote when they decided to just up and abandon PowerPC even though they were selling machines with those chips in them just months before the announcement.

I've been trying as hard as I can to stay away from the pool of mediocrity that x86 has become. My main desktop has been AmigaOne systems (An XE back in the day, then a 500, now an X1000), primarily running Mint or a custom-built Linux. Most of server hardware is Sparc-based, might start moving over to ARM in the future.

I used had a late-2005 PowerMac G5 (The one with 2x dual-core chips) after a photographer friend of mine bought one then traded it to me once Apple announce they were dropping support for it.

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

... when that reaches EOL.

WIN7 is alive for as long as you want it to be. Who cares whats M$ defines it as.

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

It won't help Apple.

Their laptops are expensive and low spec.

MacOS (or whatever it's called now) is about as much fun as Symbian S60

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

You forgot about FreeBSD.

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

I like the hardware build of my macbook, but I'm rapidly discovering that what it does best is run VNC and/or Steam Streaming.

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

Do not tempt. Newegg is selling a refurb MacBook Air for less than new iPhone. I did have a hackintosh (the disk is still around). Not exactly my preference by Windows is just about done as well. With Apple you can at least decide what data they owned.

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Trollface

Re: This should help Apple and Linux

"maybe we need a sarcasm icon?"

how about this one?

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Re: Thing is, I've been using Windows 10 for over a year, and I still absolutely hate it.

This is my fear. I avoided the free 10 upgrade to keep 8 on my lappy. The hate for Windows 8 is obviously real, but due in big part to Windows RT and the stupid push to "Touch-only devices first, and f**k everyone else". We could call it a Vista, but Vista broke backwards compatibility with XP applications, 8.1 was at least still compatible with earlier 7 and Vista code.

When I got my new laptop with 8 I hated it at first because they rearranged everything worse than a caffeinated Mad Hatter yelling "Change places!" But, I eventually got used to their new locations and tweaked everything else to my liking. Windows Nine 10 had a chance to fix that, but didn't. It looks (and acts) like a horrible hodge-podge of 7 and 8 genetic mixing gone wrong with a pink tutu put on. It's like they couldn't admit replacing the Start menu with Metro Tiles was a horrible idea, and sentimental devs tried to salvage "all their hard work" and mix it back in. And now we end up with an interface that requires TWO SEPARATE tools to configure the system: "Control Panel" and "Settings".

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Linux

Leveraging a lock-in that doesn't exist any more.

I think these tactics are liable to backfire in a big way. The decline of the desktop has pushed computing towards a much more platform-neutral market. Microsoft has no "killer apps" any more, if they make things inconvenient for people it's just likely to drive them away.

I've been Microsoft-free for almost 5 years now. Granted, I'm a major nerd. I first tried installing Linux in 1999. By 2007 I was using it a maybe half of the time, but always found myself reverting to Windows for something or another. It wasn't until I put an SSD in my laptop in 2012 that I decided to be brave and have a go at being completely Windows-free. I haven't looked back.

My laptop has a legal license for Windows 7, so I could have had the free Windows 10 upgrade in the first year. It would have been a minor nuisance to swap a different HD in and restore the old Win 7 to obtain the upgrade. I thought about it, but just couldn't be bothered. My indifference to the freebie shows just how far things have come. I really couldn't think of any reason I'd ever want to use it.

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Re: Thing is, I've been using Windows 10 for over a year, and I still absolutely hate it.

Out of the box, 8.1 is admittedly pretty awful compared to 7... but I didn't even run Windows 7 without aftermarket tweaks like Classic Shell, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, and a custom theme. If you do the same kind of thing with 8.1, it turns into a really decent OS... all the extra crap they hung off of it can be bypassed, blocked, removed, or otherwise circumvented, and what remains is an OS where everything is just where it was in Windows 7.

Once you get the start menu replaced with something decent, kill the File Explorer ribbon, and eliminate the hot corners and the Charms, 8.1 is quite good in its own right... which is more than you can say for 10 even with the same tweaks applied. 8.1 has a fully-functioning Control Panel (I don't even have the Settings app linked to the Start Menu or anywhere else), the same update system as 7 (meaning the control belongs to the user, not Microsoft), the same telemetry (or lack thereof) as 7, no ads, no unwanted app installations, no unwanted uninstallations of things it wants to remove, no changing your settings on its own, no Cortana, no nagging to use Edge if you start another browser, and no permanent beta quality because of the frenetic rate of updates and a lack of professional beta testers (that's your job now, non-enterprise users!)... it's much like 7, only with 3 extra years of support and a handful of things that are nice to have but not world changers (faster boot, better task manager, better file copy/filename collision dialogs, etc.).

There are a few areas where 7 has it better, though. The networking options have been pared down in 8.1, and they oversimplified a lot of it (ie no easy way to change an existing network's type or name). The Windows 8.1 wireless network selection dialog takes up a lot of screen space, but contains nearly no information... only SSID and signal strength. That's it.

Windows 7's system restore allows the user to recover older versions of files easily, and 8.1's doesn't do that. Instead, you get file history, which I don't find as handy or useful (but I make a lot of backups, so I never relied on system restore anyway; it's just handy sometimes).

The bottom line for me is six years of security support without Windows 10. I'm already set dual-booting Linux and Windows... I could move to Linux full-time overnight if I absolutely had to (which I would if 10 was the only other choice), but this way, I have all kinds of time... and the Linux devs have a lot of time to keep making Linux better even as MS keeps working to make Windows worse. Or perhaps it will dawn on someone in Redmond that treating its customers like enemies to be conquered and subdued is not a great plan. Whatever it is, I'm set for what is sure to be an interesting six years.

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Re: This should help Apple and Linux

> Apple lost my vote when they decided to just up and abandon PowerPC even though they were selling machines with those chips in them just months before the announcement.

Apple lost my vote when they decided to just up and abandon 68000 even though they were selling machines with those chips in them just days before the announcement.

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How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?

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Linux

Embrace the penguin!

Oh, and make sure you have a Win7 VM for all of your Windows-only stuff.

That just leaves Win7 gamers who need high performance graphics and Windows screwed over...

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"That just leaves Win7 gamers who need high performance graphics and Windows screwed over..."

Yeah, I'm slightly peeved about that since my gaming PC could do with an upgrade but I'm in no hurry to move to Windows 10. My preference would be to not use Windows of any sort: it's only there for games anyway, but I think seeing the end of it as a requirement is still rather optimistic.

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"How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?"

Why are you wearing a chicken shit outfit?

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