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Europe supplants US as biggest source of child abuse hubs

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So proud

Can we beat the Yanks? Yes we can!!

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Anonymous Coward

As the UK views drawings as "child abuse," I'm going to take these stats with a grain of salt salt mine.

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Anonymous Coward

Any organisation with a vested interest in a "morality" issue - will often fall into the trap of over-egging their statistics.

In England & Wales any photograph, painting, drawing, cartoon, or sculpture that shows someone who might look under 18 - even if clothed - can potentially be portrayed as illegal.

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Anonymous Coward

That's why I stopped going to church - all those naughty little cherubs up there winking at me - AND THEN they want me to do a slut drop in the middle of the service.

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FAIL

Netherland 37%, UK 0.1% .... yeah, right.

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The IWF has also viewed a popular record cover as being a "child abuse image"

Of course, this press release is nothing to do with grossly exaggerating a problem in order to get more funding. Oh no.

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Oh, the things that can be achieved when you deploy argumentum ad metum. Make enough people afraid, and you can do anything you like in the name of mitigating the fear. No matter how completely 'hat stand' it may be.

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Anonymous Coward

"Criminals need to use good internet hosting services which offer speed, affordability, availability and access."

What a coincidence! Those are also the things I look for in hosting.

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Anonymous Coward

"What a coincidence! Those are also the things I look for in hosting."

Yes and based on that coincidence you're now on a watch list.

Everyone knows innocent people seek out shitty unreliable services.

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Devil

"Everyone knows innocent people seek out shitty unreliable services."

And that's why I use Virgin as a cover for all my nefarious activities!

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Anonymous Coward

And that's why I use Virgin as a cover for all my nefarious activities!

Yes, it's even in the name!

/me runs away quickly

:)

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Childcatcher

Hosting on what services?

Coincidence that Netherlands is used by MS for Azure hosting? Best we're not complacent in the UK, Azure only started here last year.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hosting on what services?

I'm not sure it's just Amazon, it seems to be something about the Netherlands - maybe flawed law enforcement, or maybe they get tax revenue from letting it be?

Dutch mobile phone numbers have been featuring for years in Nigerian 419 scam junkmail, and I've also seen an increase in hacking attempts coming from the Netherlands - it's now at a level that it starts overtaking OVH as a major source of those. It's almost as if nobody seems to care much about it.

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Hosted or placed on someone elses system

If someone had dubious content, would they host it themselves or exploit vulns, bad config etc to put the content on someone elses system(s) & then give their fellow dubious content fans hints on where to find it?

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Re: Hosted or placed on someone elses system

The article says 1572 used such methods to hide content.

It also says that Holland has 20972 abusive (under UK law) URLs representing 37% of the total. Working back, that means an overall total of around 57000 sites around the world were uncovered. The proportion using hints to lead users to these sites is therefore only about 2.8%.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hosted or placed on someone elses system

In the 1990s zealous "moral" groups would put objectionable material onto other people's web sites or news groups. They would then complain to ISPs to try to get the site/group closed down.

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Meh

Re: Hosted or placed on someone elses system

It also says that Holland has 20972 abusive (under UK law) URLs representing 37% of the total

Presumably, this is just the opinion of the IWF. For a URL - is it URLs or websites - to definitely be abusive under UK law would require a UK court to find it so, or is just the word of the IWF good enough?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hosted or placed on someone elses system

Why should UK law matter, though?

If it were photos of recorded footage, that'd be one thing entirely...

But, for example, drawings are illegal in the UK (which is retarded, but that's another topic for debate entirely) and completely legal in Denmark.

If - again, for example - the UK told Denmark to close down an art site with said drawings on because they're illegal in the UK, which is a completely different country to the UK with it's own set of laws (there's a shocker), Denmark should be bluntly telling the UK to fuck off.

And this is why I utterly hate the IWF, because they're a self-appointed organization which gets to dictate what the UK and what the rest of the world sees based on their own subjectivity.

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Unhappy

Re: Hosted or placed on someone elses system

Denmark should be bluntly telling the UK to fuck off.

I think Denmark + 26 other European countries really will be bluntly telling the UK to fuck off within a couple of years.

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Coat

Re: Hosted or placed on someone elses system

"and what the rest of the world sees based on their own subjectivity

Well, they could always publish their list of URLs so we can go make our own minds up...

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Anonymous Coward

Ironic

If they know about so many sites, then Shirley they would already have been taken down !!

And how do they manage to find these hidden sites, I must admit that I have never stumbled across anything that contains child porn and I am by no means an angel.... Ok, I don't go looking either but the figures suggest a hell of a lot of sites...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ironic

I am always reminded of a David Frost satirical sketch many years ago. The fictional scenario was him interviewing a member of a "clean-up TV" group. The interviewee claimed to be able to classify a programme just by its title - without needing to watch it. The "filthiest" programme in his judgement - "Blue Peter".

The sketch ends with David Frost saying something like "So your mind is very good at this" - and the man replies that he can find "filth" everywhere that most people wouldn't even suspect.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ironic

"I must admit that I have never stumbled across anything that contains child porn"

you have. you just dont know it.

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Anonymous Coward

"It also says that Holland has 20972 abusive (under UK law) [...]"

One wonders how many of the sites are legal in their own country. The UK and USA have developed a reputation for repressive prurient attitudes that are not shared by other European countries.

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Anonymous Coward

Probably 20,971 of them.

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Anonymous Coward

Maybe I'm looking at this too simply but if they know where it is why don't they do something about it?

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Canada?

What's up with the Canadians? From these figures, they host 242 sites/million people to the US's 38.

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Re: Canada?

You realise you don’t need to be physically located in a country, or to be a national of that country, to host any material there, do you?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Canada?

If I remember correctly, bestiality is legal in Canada.

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Is it because

Europe has been getting more child abuse sites, or because the US has been cutting down the number? The FBI has been making some high profile takedowns in the past couple years, that has to causing them to move or at least go so deep underground they are no longer counted in surveys like this one.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Is it because

"The FBI has been making some high profile takedowns in the past couple years, [...]"

IIRC there was an alleged scandal a few years ago - that the FBI were running undercover operations that were responsible for a significant amount of this material circulating in the USA.

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Re: Is it because

The FBI 'takes over' active pedo sites so they can reel in as many of their regular customers as possible. If they just took them down the instant they could, they wouldn't be able to catch them.

So yeah, while effectively the FBI is distributing child porn during that interim, the pedos who are viewing it would simply go elsewhere for their fix if the FBI took down the sites as quickly as possible. Keeping them operational for a few weeks longer ensures that a number of them are caught and removed from society so the ones who do more than just look at pictures can do no further harm.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Is it because

There's a Latin phrase that applies here:

non facias malum ut inde fiat bonum

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