BDSM sex rocks Drupal world: Top dev banished for sci-fi hanky-panky A prominent contributor to the open source Drupal content management system has been asked to distance himself from project because "his belief system is inconsistent with [the] project's goals." The beliefs at issue involve participation in the BDSM and Gorean (NSFW) communities, the latter involving people interested in …
So we have an example of beliefs being used against someone, but because its not, for example anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim there is little legal challenge of it not any apparent need for those in charge to fully justify their actions. Even the accusation of witchcraft these days will get little mention.
Has his interest in Gorean role-playing caused any harm? Have there been any cases of play-partners presenting stories of abuse? If not the Drupal team should shut-the fsck up and get on with developing software, not acting as moral police for communities who are probably able to make their own minds up (no matter how odd it seems to most of us).
Very well said, and don't forget feminists. I don't want to stir up a fire here but the extremists within those areas also have a tendency of proclaiming their believes as "right" and everyone who disagrees with them and speaks up is per definition guilty of harassment (at least that's the impression I constantly get).
Still... Salem... Not so much, I think this is more about a growing display of intolerance for other people's believes which we're seeing, and it's something which somewhat worries me from time to time.
Many people will agree that the dictators of the past (the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Hoessein) are bad news, yet many will easily stoop to their habits for themselves. I'm not talking genocide and all that monstrosity of course, but about spreading a sheer display of intolerance for any other opinion but your own.
Makes you wonder what's next. Hmm, people who play Minecraft should obviously be considered as very childish for playing such a weird retro-like game. Obviously you can't have those around within "serious" software projects which "matter".
How about El Reg readers? "Biting the hand that feeds IT"? Those sound very intolerant, maybe we should ban those from any "serious" projects as well.
I'm not using Drupal myself, but if I was then this display of intolerance would definitely be reason enough for me to dump it for something else.
Yeah let's not forget the feminists. They're behind everything, aren't they?
Before you run off thinking this is uppity wimmen making your life difficult again, consider first that bigots will use any acceptable veneer to mask their prejudices, be that religion, concern for children's safety or gender equality. What the announcement said was "this person engages in sexual practices I don't approve of". This time it's wrapped in nebulous concerns about "gender equality", rather than "think of the children", but it's the same nasty sentiment that's been used before.
Honestly, I can't say this sort of thing is my idea of fun. Much like the game of golf, I'm happy for other people to derive pleasure from it, so long as I don't have to watch or partake... or hear about it constantly.
What these groups are doing is consensual, and primarily for sexual fun. If the histories of key members of the British Establishment has taught us anything, it's that a penchant for being tied up and whipped in the bedroom is not an indicator of being submissive and oppressed when the daylight hours arrive. Enjoying something in the bedroom doesn't mean you live the rest of your life that way (and although it help the staffing shortages in hospitals, we probably want trained medical staff at the bedside...)
Gender equality really is a red-herring. Swap the genders (or go for same-sex pairs), and you'll find there's an equally popular subculture there.
Taking this play, or the attitudes that go with it, outside of the bedroom and into real life would definitely be grounds for getting the boot from any sane organisation, but there is zero evidence, from this report, that he ever did this.
Just as a side note. The majority of prominent feminists in the Drupal community are on Larry's side on this one. Larry himself has done quite a bit to promote feminism and help women rise up the ranks. His private sexual life is kept quite separate from his work as a programmer.
I can't hear mention of Gor without chuckling at the memory of Houseplants of Gor
"I can't hear mention of Gor without chuckling at the memory of Houseplants of Gor"
A friend once saw the Gor canon in a bookshop (neither of us had any idea what it was about) and immediately suggested that the series needed a Cockney extension - Gor Blimey and Gor Strike a Light.
After all of these years I am now informed.
This just sounds like a case of "I'm firing you to protect you".
i.e -- there is more to the *reasons* than they want to let on right now. (We here in Canada know where that falls out to, having seen this in public in a huge way just a year or three ago)
All that out of the way, someone named Purer decided to hunt up the evidence to make this fellow sound like a misogynistic rapist. </shakes head>
J.G. was ultimately found not guilty in court. He's still an &sswipe who doesn't like being told no, but he was still found not guilty. Not part of drupal so don't know if our subject at hand is the same, but I'm quite sure there will be escalation after escalation until all of the laundry gets tossed out the window.
What are you going on about?
Jian Ghomeshi's activities had nothing to do with this, one way or another. The man got his jollies from punching and choking his partners while having sex. The sex was consensual but the assaults were allegedly not. After an initial victim spoke out, several others joined in too, with the same complaints.
The trial, for assault, misfired because his lawyer was able to cast doubt on whether all the victims were really unwilling. It seems to me they were, but not beyond a doubt in a court of law with a well-paid lawyer. This is always a really hard call - closed doors, no witnesses. Still... way more than 1 complainant? Seems that the balance of the doubt kinda weighed against Jian.
There is no indication in _this_ article that there were assaults against unwilling partners. The Gor books are pretty misogynistic, I know from reading 2-3 of them in my early 20s. And, if I were a woman, I would not touch someone really believing in its "philosophy" with a 10' pole.
But that's about it. BDSM does have its followers and... if 2 (or more) consenting adults... they should be able to do as they please. Mind you, I don't think much of the Drupal actions here, but maybe they had further reasons. Dunno.
What I do know is that Jian's legal issues were of an entirely different nature, much more serious. So don't conflate the 2.
Read Dries blog post carefully. He suggests there is more to the story which is what he based his decision to ask Larry to leave the project.
This is nonsense. If he couldn't share his reasons publicly then it didn't rise to the level to ask him to leave. There are certainly non-libelous to explain why he made his decision. Dries clearly doesn't understand basic management skills.
Personally, I would never work for or with Dries Buytaert, Acquia or have anything to do with the Drupal project. He has poisoned the well.
One of the first things they pound into HR's heads is that you can't bring up why someone left, or you can be faced with a lawsuit. He brought up that it was all over being Gorean, HR (or in this case, the lead) can refute the specific claim, but they still don't get to air all the dirty laundry, especially if there's a lot of bickering and he-said-she-said.
To me, it sounds like he was involved in a lot of internal strife, and it was him or someone else (or maybe even both). It's perfectly reasonable to fire someone who is causing office issues, unless it's for being a protected class.
From the stories I've heard from folks working in/close to Drupal, Garfield has too big of an ego that makes him nigh-impossible to work with. Part of it is that his ego has been outweighing his contributions for a while now and that this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.
... allegedly subscribing - in his private life - to a fantasy promoting a system of beliefs outlined in a work of fiction - i.e. in novels?
That's a very slippery slope right there.
Based on the same logic, one can be fired for liking Alien. According to Drupal, if your boss doesn't like Alien, you're toast, because it promotes a system of beliefs some might find objectionable. Such as extra-terrestrial, fictional creatures that have acid for blood, and reproduce by forcefully inserting an egg in the host victim, who serves as food for the developing Alien egg, and dies when the egg hatches.
Or, one can buy a Giger's Alien costume, dress up as such, and post pictures of themselves, dressed-up as the Alien, on Google or Facebook. That's a fireable offense?
I hope he gets a very good lawyer. Drupal are wankers.
"He was fired for allegedly subscribing - in his private life - to a fantasy promoting a system of beliefs outlined in a work of fiction . . ."
Well, I don't think he was 'fired' per se, but he is being pressured to leave. That said, based on the stated reason for applying that pressure, they've established a reason to ostracise someone for being Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu.
Actually, on Islam, if you are Muslim and subscribe to the idea that a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's, surely that is a view that would also be counter to the Drupal stance on 'gender equality'.
Actually, on Islam, if you are Muslim and subscribe to the idea that a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's, surely that is a view that would also be counter to the Drupal stance on 'gender equality'.
Going down that road will make SJW's heads explode.
Let's go down that road.
It's 2017 and there are still prudes in the world.
It's disgusting, especially when I bet those in the project get intimate with a man/woman ask for their toes to be sucked or one of their orifices to be licked.
Maybe, just maybe, if they spent less time banning people for getting their kicks in niche places they might just be able to deliver a CMS that isn't a bag of rotten frogs churned through a cows arse.
@wolfetone
Oh, there are prudes everywhere but, worse, there is a pervasive mockery of any sexual behaviour beyond some vague notion of 'normal' sex.
Sure, it's fun to make jokes at Donald Trump's expense but why are comedians making jokes about the reports that were published about his activities with Russian prostitutes? If he is harping on about the sanctity of marriage then by all means call out hypocrisy (should the report be proven) but what is happening is that an adult is being ridiculed for indulging in a particular kink with other consenting adults.
The particular (alleged) behaviour obviously lends itself to all manner of cheap puns so it becomes irresistible but such ridicule is utterly backwards, not to mention thoroughly hypocritical when voiced by those who ostensibly support the LBGT(etc..) community.
Indeed, some comedians have admitted that, while the report is unverified and this is all just unproven allegation, the subject is too funny not to use. They are saying that the act itself is worthy of ridicule.
What those comedians are doing is getting a cheap laugh by shaming someone's private sexual preferences.
"Sure, it's fun to make jokes at Donald Trump's expense but why are comedians making jokes about the reports that were published about his activities with Russian prostitutes?"
The only concern should be if the person has an important position that could be exploited by a blackmailer.
It is the condemnatory attitudes of a society to something - that hand the blackmailer their weapon.
President Sukarno of Indonesia was subject to a KGB sting like the one alleged about Trump. When shown the film of his encounter - he apparently requested several copies for Indonesia's cinemas.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-cia-and-kgb-both-tried-to-blackmail-sukarno-with-sex-tapes.459041/
"What those comedians are doing is getting a cheap laugh by shaming someone's private sexual preferences."
Not just any someone, the President of the United States. The most public person on this planet - one who is still supposed to be an example of moral rectitude, even in these days of almost-anything-goes. And if Clinton could risk impeachment for a simple blowjob, then presidential sex with prostitutes is definitely on the table.
"Basically just a bunch of misogynist arseholes using kink as an excuse to be arseholes."
A pool table perhaps - better than a warm apple pie? The right height and a soft covering.
Many years ago two young friends were into doing it outdoors. They reported that corn stubble was very uncomfortable - and sea water washed away all the natural lubrication.
@Pascal Monett
". . . one who is still supposed to be an example of moral rectitude . . ."
I agree - our leaders should indeed be beacons of morality. In a perfect world. BUT, I do not agree that a person's sexual preferences (within the confines of activities between consenting adults) should form any part of the judgement of someone's morals.
It's this unhealthy connection of sexuality and morality that holds so much progress back because the sentiment becomes one of distrust - anyone who has sexual preferences that deviate from some bullshit 'norm' can't be fully trusted. It's bigotry - these people aren't exactly like me so I can't trust that they'll act like me.
Part of it is religious, of course, but that doesn't explain the shame and ridicule poured out by, ostensibly, liberal comedians and commentators.
On the note of blackmail, if it turns out that (now) President Trump did engage in the alleged actions and is being blackmailed by Russia, then the American people (and not only them) are partly to blame. It's only leverage if the people judge each other negatively based on their private, sexual activities.
It's perverse - you can be manifestly unqualified, an inveterate liar, an unrepentant bigot and a dangerous narcissist but if you get a kick out of urination in a sexual setting then, well, that's just unacceptable and renders you unfit for public office.
@AC
"I enjoy the sort of activities The Donald [was] alleged to have engaged in, and worse."
What do you mean "worse". Those activities are not objectively bad to start with. They're not even that uncommon, in absolute terms.
I did read in a previous article here, many moons ago, that those activities are enjoyed by some 1% of the population. That may not sound like much but it means that if you enjoy that and step into a standard NY subway car on your way to work, chances are that there is another person - in that same car - who shares your preference.
Likewise many other preferences.
The idea that some sexual preference is "worse" than some other is exactly the problem - that there is a set of good, normal, decent and acceptable sexualities and that others are therefore 'bad' and unacceptable - in varying degrees.
The only test of whether someone's sexual activity is acceptable is whether the participants are consensting*. Note that 'harm' is not a valid test as some people enjoy pain as part of their pleasure and, again, so long as it is consensual, we're all good.
* - And of age, but that is factored into the legal concept of consensus.
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Sure as hell is. When some people think putting on lipstick is a worse crime than chopping someone's head off, then something is seriously wrong. When some western liberalised/empowered individuals start to take cues from similar moralistic thinking, no matter how far removed it seems at this time from Talibanism, we have to watch out carefully.
Firing people for sexual preferences / fantasies that are non of your business in the first place? WTF.
Perhaps not put your nose where it doesn't belong? I can see someone else getting fired over this...
We all have a problem with Hitler. But if hey, had he come up with a good algorithm it would have been bonkers not to adopt it,
Good is good, Bad is bad. No one, even him, is exclusive to either. Use what is good, destroy what is evil was the obviois path to me. But for Drupal management?
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