Watt the f... Dim smart meters caught simply making up readings Some smart meters might more accurately be described as fake meters because they present false readings about energy consumption. A recent study from researchers at University of Twente (UT) and Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences (AUAS) has found that three-phase static (electronic) energy meters, which are replacing …
I thought the point of 'smart' meters was to do things like allow remote reading, clever monitoring etc. Why do they need to use a completely different method of measuring usage? Surely you just need to add a little module that reads the traditional meter?
Or am I being naive?
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"Before anyone gets too worked up; all UK domestic supply is single phase, and won't be using these 3 phase meters."
Nope. I have 3-phase at home.
A previous owner had a swimming pool with a 3 phase heater (and presumably a huge energy bill!).
Needing more than 24kW (100A single phase) is rare in a domestic situation, but not impossible. A friend is also looking at it - adding up electric car charging (7kW), induction hob (8kW), and air-air heat pumps (7kW) he's getting pretty close to the limit. Don't go boiling the kettle at the same time.
It doesn't matter, it's the same on single phase meters.
And it's not JUST smart meters. It's any meter using an electronic pickup circuit of the type mentioned, and some of those models are 20+ years old.
The 2 meters which under reported were the only 2 meters using Hall Effect sensors
Analog meters are inherently more correct than digital meters. Ask any electricity teacher.
Analog meters work on direct electromagnetism effects (integrating them over time), whereas digital meters perform sampling of voltage measurements over some circuitry (performing linear curve fitting and integrating that).
The real question is, if electric usage is on average 3% less with smart meters, how much is actual reduced usage (and therefore worthwhile the roll out of said meters) and how much is under reporting by faulty meters meaning that a switch in meter types makes a negligible affect on users energy consumption?
I mean, it was in the interest of the meter makers that the outcome of testing users with new meters that reported electrical usage was down and therefore they get government mandated sales...
I believe - don't quote me - that the reduced usage comes from 'awareness' of how much power you're using. The smart meters allow readings every 30 minutes (it's never been clear to me why you can't get a minute/second accurate reading locally). Due to this, people tend to 'watch' the figures more - become more aware of usage and generally use less.
Same thing is well documented with water metering...
As I have mentioned before, I am quite well aware of how much power I am using. On the one hand, I tend to notice what is switched on and what isn't. On the other hand, I also have my Owl meter which shows me from moment to moment how much electricity we are using. (483 watts at the moment, occasionally changing to 10 kw when someone has a shower or switches on all the white goods at once).
On the gripping hand, it's entirely and only my business.
In theory meters can measure by the second but it was felt that this would give too much information about peoples private lives so measurement will usually be once per day. The utilities have to ask if they want to request more detailed information and even then they will probably not measure more often than once per hour as the message load on the network becomes significant.
Working in favour of higher profit for those sponsoring the mps in the eu-uk etc who voted to install these new meters.
As for people monitoring use... you can do this today with the mechanical meters, watch how fast the disk spins... just as good and doesn't cost billions in change over costs (for meters largely made in China).
And for those sad gits who do monitor use then good luck to you, personally if I want to put the washing machine on to wash my clothes then I put it on, I can't put it on 'slowly' to save energy or anything. If the damned thing could fillup with water from my gas heated hot water system like the old one 30 years ago managed then I could save some money but someone managed to squash that idea (apparently using gas to boil water in a far off electric plant, use that boiled water to generate electric, lose a load of electric down the wires and then use that to boil water in my washing machine is environmentally more friendly???? More profitable for the same sponsors of meps I think).
If the damned thing could fillup with water from my gas heated hot water system like the old one 30 years ago managed then I could save some money but someone managed to squash that idea
I had the same thought when I could only find cold-fill machines. The explanation I was given is that modern machines use so little water on a fill compared to older ones that in most cases the valve would shut off before the water had started to run hot. It sounds plausible.
The explanation I was given is that modern machines use so little water on a fill compared to older ones that in most cases the valve would shut off before the water had started to run hot. It sounds plausible.
Eh what? There'd be all of a litre or two in the pipes, whereas the machine would be using at least 20 litres.. That's based on my experience of NZ homes, where most have the water heater in a cupboard in the laundry, often with the washing machine right next to it (so only a metre or so of pipe). Best home I was in had this stuff planned centrally, so kitchen sink, laundry and shower were all quite close to the heater. Having a shower take 2-seconds to get to the good stuff on a cold winter's morn was great!
That said, do you need to do a hot wash very often? I've found most washing powders available here are at least as good with cold water, and I only sometimes need to do a hot wash when I have a bad oil or grease stain from an engine.
the machine would be using at least 20 litres.
Modern machines use ~ 6 litres per kilo total, and maybe less than half that is hot water. In my case, with hot water tank many metres away in a garage I need to run 3-4 litres before I get really hot water.
most washing powders available here are at least as good with cold water
For dirt, yes. One interesting (in a scientific sense) problem that hotels are having is a resurgence in bedbug infestations. Cool washes don't kill insect eggs, you need at least 50C to do that.
"That said, do you need to do a hot wash very often? "
if you don't hot wash regularly you'll get a nasty biofilm buildup inside your machine and things start to _smell_. Those of us with skin conditions often get them aggravated by such things, especially when compounded by the lack of outdoor drying facilities in dense urban settings (Also, if you happened to live in central Wellington in the 1980s and were near the motorway, putting your clothes out to dry would frequently result in them coming in covered in sooty flakes. The same applies lots of other places)
Besides, if you wash at 30-40c with a cold powder you can use less than half as much. The overall impact of generating the hotwater is lower than that of the extra detergent in your waste stream.
(apparently using gas to boil water in a far off electric plant, use that boiled water to generate electric, lose a load of electric down the wires and then use that to boil water in my washing machine is environmentally more friendly???? More profitable for the same sponsors of meps I think).
Ah yes.. That wonderful "green energy" stuff.. Electric cars are one of my bigger concerns here in NZ,as in, if enough people adopt them then our mothballed coal and gas plants would suddenly be getting all hot under the collar so-to-speak :) And of course there'd be the required upgrades to transmission lines, street transformers etc, probably a lot of places would have to switch in extra phases (see post above re single phase limits) - a lot of costs and construction required if electric cars were to become more common (I am all for reducing waste, increasing efficiency and protecting the environment, but I try to make sure that something sold as "green" doesn't need a couple of extra coal power stations and a few billion hectares of deforestation to support it - that stuff's shit brown, not green!)
Question though... Do you guys over there not have washing powders that work at least as well in cold water as they do in hot? I find that except for oil/grease from someone's engine, I don't have a need to do a hot wash. And if you do need the heat, can't you swap the in-feed to something from your water heater? Back in the old wringer-washer days we had a rubber hose we would push onto the tap we wanted to use. When mum finally got an automatic machine (actually sometime in the late 80's, when her 30+yr old machine finally packed up) she just used the same hose for the times she wanted a hot wash, saved money on changing all the fittings in the laundry by only changing the cold tap.
But yeah, a lot of "green" stuff looks great at a glance but when you sit down and do the math... I was a fan of wind farms till I went to use the numbers to prove to someone how great they are, and found out they aren't.
To those who wish to downvote based on my recent dislike of wind : Do the math yourself before downvoting, factor in backup generators, all costs of construction including transport of stuff to the site, developing/preparing the site (inc same for backup generators), replacement and disposal when the turbines fail at the end of their (often rather short) lifespan etc, and compare with modern nuke or hydro (very expensive build but very cheap for the next 100 years; we have stations in NZ that're in the 100yr region and several over 50yrs, that've maybe had turbine replacements and upgrades but no major work. One of the world's oldest hydro generators is still in use today on Mt Taranaki (in place since 1935 but built around 1901 and used elsewhere). Do some math, prove how great (or bad) wind is.
Sorry, should've got more sleep last night...
"Same thing is well documented with water metering..."
No no no its not the same thing at all. -> [FAIL] Icon.
With water its metered vs flat rate billing, where metered tends to be more expensive because the flat rate assumed consumption tends to be less that the actual, therefore metered billing tends to get people to reduce their usage due to the higher bills on an ongoing basis.
With electricity, its metered vs metered. It has been documented that after a short honeymoon people the consumer tends to stop paying attention to the 'smart' meter, which means that any benefits from alterered behavior are only gained in the short term.
No,that means that ALL of the others might be OVER REPORTING or, perhaps correct. More likely, in fact as they ALL may be incorrect (except in laboratory testing) and ONLY two were UNDER REPORTING. Sounds like a Precedent we have here. If there's money to be had, or people to be had, they MUST deserve it.
> As a Rogowski coil results in a time-derivative of the measured
> current, the measured voltage has to be integrated
That's completely doomed if there is any significant DC component in the load, e.g. if there are devices with half-wave rectifiers, or full-wave rectifiers that are asymetric in some way.
To be fair they do have significant advantages over current transformers, i.e. linearity. And a good electronic meter should be more accurate than a mechanical one. But a cost-reduced electronic meter can clearly be crap.
"the WHOLE point is reduce the ability to swap suppliers easily"
I don't think that's the real rationale, although I'm sure the suppliers are working on making it hard to "switch meters".
I think the real reason is to introduce time- and demand- based billing, something that's impossible with the present meters, since all you get is a total usage over a number of months.
I think the real reason is to introduce time- and demand- based billing, something that's impossible with the present meters, since all you get is a total usage over a number of months.
If the devices displayed the electricity price in real-time, and made it available via some network protocol too, then there would be some small scope for time- and demand- based metering, but the British ones don't do that.
It is only a small scope because people need to use electricity at particular times regardless of cost - they are hardly likely to get up at 3 am to boil the kettle for breakfast because electricity is particularly cheap then.
And when my washing machine will hang the washing out, put the next load in or even transfer it to the tumble drier above at 3am then great I will use its time function. I work during the week and only have sat/sun to do the beds, lights and darks... 3 loads usually (God I am a domesticated bloke aren't I?) I did try getting a wife to do this but she went to work instead to help pay the inflated bills created by the idiot politicians on the take
to do the beds, lights and darks... 3 loads usually
Now I can understand this way back in the 1950's when washing machines were new and washing powders weren't so science as "lets throw some caustic chemical powders in a box and slap a catchy name and bright colours on the label", but in this day and age? Sure, separate out delicate things maybe, but everything else can go in the same load a lot of the time. I might not put woolens in when I do a hot wash (which is quite rare, and I'd rather wash only that which really needs it on low water rather than a full load on full water). The only time I do more than one load is when I can't reasonably get stuff in one load.
Are you sure you can't get away with 2 loads, like putting lights and darks in at the same time? Preferably while the wife is at work, what she don't know won't hurt you....
'Course, being a bloke, I don't have a collection of daintys and unmentionables that need super special powders and settings, toss it all in one load and hit the go button. If I was to be encumbered with a missus (or a she-kind flatmate) I might have to change. Even brand new jeans go in with other stuff, but then most of my clothing is of a blue or black persuasion anyway... The dyes on clothing today and the powders tend to conspire together to make sure that colours don't run.
We manage to do one load each evening, no problem. We could manage it before dinner if we wanted to and maybe will, now that you mention it. Why wait until 2 or 3? Beds take 2-3 minutes. We rotate 2 sets of sheets, and have a back up set for y rare ostomy catastrophes. Where's the problem if you aren't away from home 18 hours a day? If I defer laundry I can do 3 loads in two hours while making beds, cooking dinner, watching TV, reading email, and returning phone calls during commercials. 235 channels- nothing to see, spam email, and an automatic washer don't take much attention. I even get the clothes folded and put away. Granted, all of those things happen at home. A trip to the laundromat takes a dedicated hour, even with take away dinner, but they do have WiFi....
>> Maybe, but your washing machine/tumble drier/dishwasher all have selectable 'wait X hours' modes which do allow for this kind of usage.
Yours may have but my ten year old washing machine and tumble drier definitely don't unless I use an alarm clock to tell me to go down and press the start button
Ahh, but a Smart freezer, electric car chargers,most residential lighting, heating appliances, home air conditioning (where people work days), dishwashers, washers, electric dryers, water well pumping, etc. can run at night at lower rates, rather than the high-demand daytime hours. Most, but not all commercial loads are bound to daytime use.
Our County government took advantage of low night time rates for 100 % of the its offices' daytime air conditioning needs through a eutectic ice storage system, saving more at least 0.30 USD/kWH. And there were any other energy saving devices integrated into gas, electric and water utility systems. Most had a three year,or less, payback. The ice storage took less than ten, and it's still going strong after twenty.
>"the WHOLE point is reduce the ability to swap suppliers easily"
WTF, we do not have to switch meters in France when we switch suppliers ... they all pump their current into the grid and we take from that. It would just be silly if the different suppliers used different incompatible meters ... who thought that one out ??????
We don't get to choose meters or suppliers. public utility monopoly. I see now I have to pay extra for the privilege of generating more than I use through my solar panels, on top of the $25 USD/mo, for the privilege of simply having the utility connected to my house for nighttime use. Last I recall, that minimum charge for service in Hawaii, a chain of volcanoes using virtually no geothermal, we were paying $65 five years ago. That's a monopoly State wide. Although there is a TOKEN bit of wind power (and with tradewinds available, besides!), it's mandated charge is the same $0.65/kwh min., last I looked. No incentive to develop the local resources tolerated, just pay the same as to import fossil fuels by ship. Pretty inefficient where there is lots of sun, lots of wind, unlimited geothermal, all extremely low cost generators, albeit there is NO WAY to use it. Some few do go completely off grid. Likely they'll assess a fee and install meters on that soon, too, should it occurs to HELCO.
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