back to article New Royal Navy Wildcat helicopters can't transmit vital data

Britain's latest military helicopter fleet has still not had a tactical data link capability fitted, two years after the aircraft entered service. Although the new Leonardo Wildcat helicopters have already been deployed operationally aboard Royal Navy warships, including deployments as the sole helicopter aboard frigates …

Page:

  1. Gti Jazz Blue
    WTF?

    You couldn't make this up

    WOW how much does each Wildcat cost £26M? and it still has to rely on Voice Mk1 for data exchange - what bean counter dreamed up this saving.

    1. SkippyBing

      Re: You couldn't make this up

      They also cut the external fuel tanks which pretty much halved the endurance. On a naval helicopter. Because having fuel is so over rated when the only place you can land keeps moving.

      1. sawatts
        Facepalm

        Re: You couldn't make this up

        I think that you'll find you can "land" anywhere. Taking off on the other hand...

        (seriously, no Link-16? shouldn't be allowed to fly in a warzone!)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: You couldn't make this up

          'I think that you'll find you can "land" anywhere'.

          In the middle of the ocean???

          1. sniperpaddy
            Facepalm

            Re: You couldn't make this up

            I think you missed the sarcasm

        2. Rattus Rattus

          @sawatts

          "shouldn't be allowed to fly in a warzone"

          It probably isn't allowed to fly in a warzone. If its carrier is ever deployed, it will probably have to offload all helicopters first. After all, why would you need those?

    2. mwnci

      Re: You couldn't make this up

      I mean it's not like "Over the Horizon Targeting" and "Battle Damage Assessment" is a real thing is it? oh wait......

      1. SkippyBing

        Re: You couldn't make this up

        'I mean it's not like "Over the Horizon Targeting" and "Battle Damage Assessment" is a real thing is it? oh wait......'

        Don't I still wake in a cold sweat trying to remember all the paragraphs for voice reporting OTHT. I always felt BDA was best conducted at a distance though, in case all you'd done was really annoy them.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: You couldn't make this up

          The ARSSE article on the 'Future Lynx' seems relevant here.

          It's talking about the Army version but it's the same aircraft. The article is 10 years old.

        2. mwnci

          Re: You couldn't make this up

          Still on the plus side, it does make the case for Drones eh?

          1. SkippyBing

            Re: You couldn't make this up

            'Still on the plus side, it does make the case for Drones ehv

            Oh I'm sure the MoD would cut the datalink from a drone as a last minute cost saving...

        3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          " it's not like "Over the Horizon Targeting" and "Battle Damage Assessment" is a real thing"

          Oh it can do all that.

          The crew just can't actually tell anyone about the results before they land.

          Which may be a bit late.

          1. SkippyBing

            Re: " it's not like "Over the Horizon Targeting" and "Battle Damage Assessment" is a real thing"

            'The crew just can't actually tell anyone about the results before they land.'

            Oh you can but the baud rate is worse than dial-up.

            Calculating the baud rate for human speech is left as an exercise for the reader. On account of me starting Friday evening.

            1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
              IT Angle

              "Calculating the baud rate for human speech "

              Well speech vocoders can do human speech in 2400bps. At 200 words a minute with an average 7 characters a word that's say 108 bps.

            2. kmac499

              Re: " it's not like "Over the Horizon Targeting" and "Battle Damage Assessment" is a real thing"

              Simples ; Send it out on a recce in a known direction. If it comes back OK; if it doesn't, that's where the hostiles are.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You couldn't make this up

      "you couldn't make this up"

      Reminds me of John Fortune being interviewd about his work with John Bird on the "George Parr" interviews in the Bremner, Bird and Fortune series. When asked how you go about satirising topics he gave some explanation but then added that it the topic was governement policy then simply repeating it verbatim was normally better than anything you could write yourself!

      Remember one where "General Sir George Parr" was explaining the preparations for the Gulf War and with great excitement went through a series of items saying how amazingly well the army was equiped only to add, when interviewer said that that would clearly help in Iraq, that "of course, we always expected to fight a war in nothern Europe so the uniform was too hot, camoflage was wrong colour, tanks broke down in sand" before at end of interview offering suggestion that the UK and US wrote to Sadaam Hussein and asked him that as he clearly wanted a war then would he mind coming over to northern Europe to fight it!

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: You couldn't make this up

        The 2Johns one on the new fighter "... and that's when we add the trunk and paint it white"

        Ironically I think it was written about a previous fighter project but perfectly describes every more recent one.

    4. JBlond

      Re: You couldn't make this up

      What do you expect - the ACOS in charge of IT is Dan Cheesman is a Royal Marine. They Andrew is so busy with hacks trying to get promoted its all short term great ideas like Artificial Intelligence and Cyber instead of getting the basics like radios and data links right. They can't even get a ship to sea without it breaking down.

  2. hplasm
    Facepalm

    WTF?

    How did so many idiots get into positions of power?

    The Idiocracy is all that is 'trickle down' it seems...

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: WTF?

      You've got to remember what 2008 was like. Years of Brownomics finally hit the buffer.

      1. Baldy50

        Re: WTF?

        'Brownomics' Truly awesome!

      2. Rosie Davies

        Re: WTF?

        Tsk, tsk, tsk and there was me thinking that is was the global crash triggered by the sub-prime lending racket in the US that threw a spanner in the works. What a silly girl I must be.

        Rosie

        1. IsJustabloke
          Trollface

          Re: WTF?

          "What a silly girl I must be."

          No one's saying Brown didn't have a little help....

        2. isogen74

          Re: WTF?

          "Prudence" Brown was quite happily borrowing £1100 per man, woman, and child in the UK per annum *before* the sub-prime bubble exploded as well as selling off government property and gold at rock-bottom prices. His ability to spend far in excess of tax receipts has nothing to do with sub-prime nor the credit crunch, the crunch just exposed it as the unsustainable "economics" that it was ...

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: WTF? - triggered by the sub-prime lending racket

          As I understand it the poor people who took out mortgages mostly paid them back. It was the "real estate developers" whose speculative dodgy condos were classified AAA that caused the real meltdown, according to Gillian Tett and others. (But I agree with you in general terms - if Brown had told Blair that bank deregulation was a bad idea, he'd have been out.)

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

      The MoD has a "procurement" staff of about 23000 for about $18Bn

      The Israeli MoD about 500 for about $15Bn (IIRC from El Reg previous article)

      Clearly someone is doing it wrong.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

        Perhaps the MOD's procurement program doubles with the government's "Hire the Mentally Challenged" program?

      2. Mark 85

        Re: "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

        Clearly someone is doing it wrong.

        Obviously, the Israelis as they have not followed the US and UK model of procurement. Or maybe it's not "procurement" per se, but departmental empire building and job security?

        I do admire some of the stuff the Israelis do such as this as it's just a lot more efficient and cost effective. Other countries (US? UK?) could learn a lot from them. I'll stay out of the politics, etc. for this discussion.

        I do believe that if the procurement departments were cut down, the savings would be reflected in budgets and hopefully, the cost per unit would drop since Joe Contractor/Builder would have less people to deal with.

      3. Julifriend
        Alert

        Re: "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

        Simple maths indicates that the extra spend over the Israelis (£3bn) divided by the extra staff (22,500) works out at about £133k per annum per staff member. Which seems a little low for high-level 'Sir Humphries".

      4. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

        "Clearly someone is doing it wrong."

        That depends if "it" is 'hiding true unemployment figures' or something else.

        Padding out the Civil Service is a time-honoured way of cheating.

    3. jMcPhee

      Re: WTF?

      At least they can use a USB instead of a MIL spec 5-1/4" floppy

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: WTF?

        "At least they can use a USB instead of a MIL spec 5-1/4" floppy..."

        Is that the notorious "rugged floppy"?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WTF?

      "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

      The intelligent, creative, productive people were all busy doing useful work.

    5. JamesPond
      WTF?

      WTF?

      "How did so many idiots get into positions of power?"

      It's really difficult to get fired in most UK government departments, unless they are cost-cutting.

      Instead of going through the months of HR quagmire to sack someone, it's easier to get them promoted out of your department into another. Hence the cream stays put and the shite rises. And certainly in the UK, the 'old boys network' means it doesn't matter what you know, only whom you know.

      It also seems to help if your golf handicap is in single figures.

  3. SkippyBing

    This weeks name

    I think technically it's now Leonardo Helicopters to differentiate it from Leonardo the parent company, which used to be Finmeccanica. But the UK bit of Finmeccanica is now known as Leonardo Marconi Westlands and parents the UK bit of Leonardo Helicopters.

    Because branding is so important for weapons systems.

    1. Rich 11

      Re: This weeks name

      Obviously. Who wouldn't want to put 'Stark Industries' on all their bombs and missiles? What could possibly go wrong with that?

    2. The IT Ghost

      Re: This weeks name

      I always look for corporate logos on the missiles that go whizzing by me. Doesn't everyone?

      1. Mark 85

        Re: This weeks name

        I always look for corporate logos on the missiles that go whizzing by me. Doesn't everyone?

        Well we should. We don't want to buy the ones that miss their targets a lot, right?

        1. cosymart
          Headmaster

          Re: This weeks name

          Most air to air and surface to air Missiles are just that, they are designed to "miss" the target by a close proximity and then explode. lots of stuff flying about at high velocity hitting sensitive bits (lots of these on an aircraft). The only Hitile [sic] that I am aware of is the Rapier surface to air one.

      2. sniperpaddy

        Re: This weeks name

        The humiliation of getting hit by a knockoff Prado.

        Now a Raytheon? Stand up and take it like a man.

    3. dmck

      Re: This weeks name

      The company is called Leonardo MW Ltd.Where as stated MW is for Marconi Westland.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This weeks name

        Would that be the Marconi that went bust 15 years ago, taking a lot of investors' money with it?

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1339789/Marconi-from-boom-to-bust-in-a-year.html

        No wonder they prefer to hide the name as an initial.

  4. lglethal Silver badge
    Joke

    Lets just wait...

    until THOSE usb sticks get left on a Train somewhere...

  5. Baldy50

    Probably...

    A shit load safer than transmitting it anyway.

    1. sawatts

      Re: Probably...

      "A shit load safer than transmitting it anyway."

      ...Hi guys, we detected some in bound targets during the mission, I've got the data on the stick. Hello? Hello?...

  6. chivo243 Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    ruggedized sneaker net

    With combat boots instead?

    Yeah, we saved a cool million on that decision. Looks like it's bonus time for me!

    Helicopter just for effect...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Treason

    Whoever at the MOD thought this was a good idea should be shot for treason.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Re: Treason

      Defence procurement has been an ongoing disaster for decades. Lots of smart and honest people have tried to fix it during that time and none have succeeded because it is institutionally incapable of being fixed.

      Fortunately the British haven't needed to fight any serious wars unaided against a competent and well-equipped enemy for very long time. We should just accept that the purpose of defence procurement, and indeed the rest of the MoD, is to enrich defence contractors and prop up small parliamentary majorities, and that the Americans are expected to do any serious fighting for us. Now when is that nice Mr Trump coming to have tea with Her Majesty?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Treason

        none have succeeded because it is institutionally incapable of being fixed.

        I agree nobody's fixed it, and that the culture is deeply entrenched. But there is a simple solution - kick out the incompetent wasters of the civil service, make the whole MoD military personnel, reporting as an extra "service" to the chief of the defence staff.

        Then the military have only themselves to blame. The military command structure is very good at shouting at people until they do what is needed (or court martialling them if they don't). Give them a finite total budget, with some forward visibility to stop the dogfuckers at the Treasury messing things up, and then they have to control specification and out-turn cost, they can balance projects against revenue costs. fight amongst themselves until they realise that is a zero-sum game. From a national perspective we'd know what we're spending, the military can never complain that they were "given the wrong kit", and the budget for toys wouldn't bloat since they'd have to choose what gets cut if they overspend on a particular project. The defence industry would suddenly find that the buyer didn't give a hoot about their lobbying, and that said buyer just wanted a product that worked, at the agreed cost and time. Equally, the military would be accountable for any spec changes or errata, with the certainty that they'd have to cut spending on another toy.

        Simples. And if they really fuck up, we'd still be better off than today, because even with a load of inappropriate and broken kit, that's what we've got now, but we'd have the concept of a set defence budget.

        1. ciaran

          Re: make the whole MoD military personnel

          The Army, Navy and the Air force are all permanently at war... with each other. Why do you think the harriers were scrapped? Kill strike from the Air force.

          The MoD is there to try to keep them apart. Their basic tactic is to say 33% each. So actual needs are not considered. If the army wants a budget increase to buy, say, new guns, its going to cost the MoD 3 times the price to keep the other 2 happy.

          So if the military were in charge, it would have to have 3 co-chiefs that sign of on every expenditure. War by meetings. With meetings.

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like