IETF 'reviewing' US event plans in the face of Trump's travel ban The United States' temporary ban on seven nations' citizens seeking to walk on it soil has wrung a rare almost-political statement out of the Internet Engineering Task Force. The standards-rough-consensus-reaching setting body for Internet communications, the IETF still relies, perhaps paradoxically, on face-to-face confabs to …
Wow.
Take away the anti-Trump vitriol and look at the facts.
In 2015, Obama identified 7 countries and halted their ability to be part of the visa waiver program. Why? Because these 7 countries represented a threat. Not a 90 day ban, but complete removal from the program.
Of two of these countries, ISIS has the ability to create fake documents. This is a widely known and reported facts. One of these countries is known for state sponsorship of terrorism.
Yet not a peep from anyone.
It so happens that these are the same 7 countries where Trump enacted his 90 day ban.
Why 90 days? The WH says its so that they can come up with a plan to enforce 'extreme vetting'.
Makes sense right?
In legal terms, the president has the ability to stop immigration from a country or countries if the immigration represents a national security threat.
Jimmy Carter suspended Immigration from Iran until the US Hostages were released.
Obama suspended immigration from Iraq for 6 months because two terrorists came thru the system.
And now Trump bans immigration for 90 days so that he can get a plan put in to place to counter a threat?
Take away all of the FUD. Consider the legal rights granted to the office of the President. Consider the news reports detailing the threat. And you call his actions "anti-intellectual and racist" ?
Really?
It seems to me, those protesting Trump are the ones acting in an emotional , anti-intellectual manner.
Also, its not racist. The claim is that its anti-Muslim. Muslim is a religion, not a race.
Carter suspended immigration from Iran due to the hostage crisis...
Obama did not suspend immigration for six months, he increased the scrutiny and requirements for visas and that was due to a known threat.
You may have your alternate truths, but you do not get alternate facts.
Muslim is not a religion. Islam is a religion. A muslim (generically speaking) is a follower of any branch of the Islamic religion in that same way that a Jew is a follower of any branch of the religion Judaism. So yes, broadly speaking it is rascist, or at the very least highly discriminatory because in its intention it is targetted directly against one particular set of ideological beliefs as well as specific geographical ethnicity. Even more so, this dragnet will also entangle people of other religions from those same countries named.
Ending of a visa waiver just means you need a visa.
Even countries within the visa waiver programme still have visa requirements.
So your comparison is nothing of the sort, you need to remember your audience here is clearly better educated than the shitkickers you drink with.
As for his plan to "counter the threat" its just going to be the same extreme vetting which already takes place for many people trying to get a US visa of any sort.
why would one expect anything else from management of an oligopolistic empire ? Just that new boss not as subtle as old boss in selling out citizens to the corporates. Aside from the new rulez not being racist, merely discriminatory. Now lets see how how Oz PM handles his "your fired" moment.
The thing is he's so dull witted that the only thing he could think to do with his father's money is set up a property empire and go bankrupt several times. If I had that amount of money to start with I could lose it in so many more interesting ways.
Trump has thin skin and the Aussie Prez reminded him of an obligation made by Obama to take 1,250 detainees who are from these 7 countries.
Think about this ...
The Aussies blocked the same set of immigrants who are trapped on a bunch of islands off the coast of Australia because they (Australia) recognized the threat posed by immigrants from these countries.
I don't see the world up in arms over it.
Trump bans access from these countries for 90 days so that they could formulate a plan... the world goes ballistic.
The irony seems to be lost.
And the call went poorly because Aussie Prez told Trump he had to honor the agreement.
The Aussies blocked the same set of immigrants who are trapped on a bunch of islands off the coast of Australia because they (Australia) recognized the threat posed by immigrants from these countries.
I don't see the world up in arms over it.
Maybe you just weren't paying attention to all the people saying Australia's immigration policy is racist and discriminatory?
The Aussies blocked the same set of immigrants who are trapped on a bunch of islands off the coast of Australia because they (Australia) recognized the threat posed by immigrants from these countries.
Do you ever say anything that is factual? Australia does not accept any refugees who arrive by boat. It has nothing to do with what country they originate from, and lots of the world disagrees with the policy.
And the call went poorly because Aussie Prez told Trump he had to honor the agreement.
The concept of "honour" must be quite alien to him... do you think he should not abide by the treaty because he doesn't like it? If Russia rolls tanks in to Latvia, can Trump decide he doesn't like NATO any more either? If Trump decides he doesn't want to keep giving money to China, do you think it OK for him to cancel their T-bills?
@Ian Michael Gumby
You don't seem to be doing too well with the facts in your comments on this story. First, Australia is receiving refugees from more countries than just the ones banned by Trump. Sri Lanka, for example. Second, Australia isn't refusing these refugees because they're dangerous. They take thousands of refugees every year, including from the 7 countries, just not ones who arrive by boat. The Australian government feels that accepting boat refugees will encourage criminal gangs of human smugglers. Those same people would have been able to apply as refugees if they'd been able to arrive by air.
So not quite as many as got murdered and wounded by a Muslim terrorist loon in Orlando. That's just one night club.
"The brains of the future are also caught up in the insanity."
So I look and find CUNY bragging
"Every year, hundreds of thousands of students – including a record 274,000 degree-credit students – choose The City University of New York!"
So about one in 2740 brains who are not actually affected unless they want to cross US borders in the next 9 months anyway. How is America going to survive with a 9 month gap in the supply of brains from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen?
Strong the bullshit in this one is.
You're more likely to die in the bath than by an act of terrorism, so why hasn't your Nazi leader banned baths?
As William Pitt the Younger once noted; "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
For those following the score, your fascist regime's hegemonic ambitions are responsible for the genocide of 3.3 million innocent Iraqi civilians, prompted by an attack on some suspiciously overinsured buildings filled with asbestos, that may or may not have been conducted by an Afghan and former CIA operative, not an Iraqi.
But that's OK though, because Iraq had oil "WMDs". Honest.
Yes, there are many terrorists in America, mostly in Washington.
"You're missing the point, which sure does not need making."
Seriously, are you as stupid as pumpkin puss? Or, simply as racist and insane as the clueless clown?
There has never been a terrorist from any of those countries in America. The countries that have sent us terrorists were not on the list, amazingly enough, they are also countries where the twittering twerp has business interests. This is nothing more than a show piece to placate the racists who voted for the bumbling buffoon and has nothing to do with keeping America safe. Refugees already go through a 2-3 year process that includes more than 20 steps, interviews with counter-terrorism experts from multiple agencies, and more biometric checks than you have IQ points.
All you Iraqis and Afghans who risked your lives helping us will just have to fend for yourselves. Good luck finding the next batch of suckers to help us. And, ISIS is already using this as propaganda to prove there is a war between the west and Islam, and not just a war against a bunch of crazy murderers.
All thanks to the little man with little hands.
Actually, the countries chosen are Obama's list of countries that are the most dangerous to the US.
Also, if we fight wars with the aim of not offending the enemy because it might make them even madder, it does kind of limit the options a bit, ya?
Yes, Trump has business interests in countries already deemed to be friends of the USA. Saudi Arabia was too valuable an ally to be ostrasized for supplying (from memory) 11 of the 9/11 hijackers. He wouldn't have gone into, say, Yemen. But odd how the USA can stay friendly with countries despite their actual proven involvement in terrorism on American soil. Some things, i.e. strategic resources, are more important.
"Seriously, are you as stupid as pumpkin puss? Or, simply as racist and insane as the clueless clown?
There has never been a terrorist from any of those countries in America. "
That would be A No Talent Ass Clown or a reference to Michael Bolton.
But I digress.
I suggest you actually do some research before going off on someone.
2015 Obama identified these 7 countries as a threat and removed them from the visa waiver program.
So Trump halts immigration for 90 days so that the US can plan and implement 'extreme vetting'? This per the WH.
Seems reasonable to me. And also its able to withstand any legal challenge.
Where Trump fscked up is in implementation and messaging.
So I'd say lighten up Francis.
Oh the level of stupid hurts so much. This has nothing to do with keeping terrorists out of the US, if it did then the countries that actual terrorists come from would be on the list (like Saudi Arabia).
All this is for is placate the dumbass racists like Big John and you, inmypjs.
So it must be true then.
Gingers have some recessive and defective gene traits.
So your logic is that because a terrorist who attacked the US came from Country A, that there is no threat that a terrorist from Country B can't also attempt to attack the US?
Parroting the fallacy doesn't make it true.
The truth is that one country on the banned list (90 day ban) is known for state sponsored terrorism. (Iran)
Two countries on the list have ISIS (the terrorist baddies) in the countries and have had known access to government papers and can make fake documents. (Libya and Syria)
And of course I have to ask... of the terrorist attacks in Europe, what were the terrorists backgrounds?
I mean their countries of origin? Seems they too didn't come from the countries that attacked the US either. Were they not a threat either?
"The truth is that one country on the banned list (90 day ban) is known for state sponsored terrorism. (Iran)"
Israel is known for state-sponsored terrorism - invading all its neighbours, occupying bits of at least 2 of them for decades, carrying out various, documented, security service kidnappings and assassinations in foreign countries. Saudi money has built hundreds if not thousands of wahahbist-based schools and colleges in many developing (and developed) countries. Both of those are a far bigger threat to regional and global stability than Iran could ever be.
Unlike Europe where refugees and a small number of, but highly dangerous, terrorists simply walked into the countries refugees entering here have to go through a lengthy vetting process already. The implementation was as stupid as the stated reasons for the order. This order will not improve security in the US at all; it was to placate the xenophobes he whipped up during the campaign without hurting his own business interests. No consultation with Custom and Border Patrol (CBP), the State Department, or Congress before issuing the order. The CBP being ordered not to talk to members of Congress who asked questions and ignoring federal court orders. Conflicting information about whether it applied to green card holders who have their rights through law, not executive order and the usual lying when the shit hit the fan. The chaos at the airports was due to Delta's IT problems? Really? This is the Narcissistic Ninny at his best.
"So not quite as many as got murdered and wounded by a Muslim terrorist loon in Orlando. That's just one night club."
It's nowhere near the number killed and injured by NI terrorism over the years. That was supported by many US citizens. Maybe we should ban all US citizens from travel to the UK or Ireland. It's the same "logic".
@inmypjs
"So not quite as many as got murdered and wounded by a Muslim terrorist loon in Orlando. That's just one night club."
Or not as many killed in the Oklahoma City bombing by a Mus.... oh wait.... a New York born, Irish American, Gulf war veteran loon.
Its just classical social information theory style 'virtue signalling'.
Jump in to express disgust at what you think will make you look moral in the eyes of the peer group,thus absolving you from actually having to do anything about it.
In days of yore, they went to church and bought indulgences for similar reasons.
Its just classical social information theory style 'virtue signalling'.
Curiously enough, exactly the same argument can be applied to people jumping in to express support for something. It's almost like it's a near-useless concept when applied to many unknown people rather than to an individual whose character is well-known.
"Its just classical social information theory style 'virtue signalling'.
Jump in to express disgust at what you think will make you look moral in the eyes of the peer group,thus absolving you from actually having to do anything about it.
In days of yore, they went to church and bought indulgences for similar reasons."
Cool theory bro. Unfortunately downvotes are not recorded with names attached, so this isn't really virtue signalling so much as a signal of your lack of virtue.
"Jump in to express disgust at what you think will make you look moral in the eyes of the peer group"
There's a little flaw in that. Votes are anonymous - rather like your post - so they're not effective in making the voter look moral in the eyes of the peer group; the eyes can't see them. Please engage the brain before setting the keyboard in motion.
No. The post does not exonerate Trump, it exposes the hypocrisy if those who would castigate him, but not a radical organisation that has killed millions and made the world a far more miserable and dangerous place.
Take the beam out of thine own eye, brother...
it exposes the hypocrisy if those who would castigate him, but not a radical organisation that has killed millions
What makes you think no-one here is against radical Islamism too? Are people obliged to append a statement to that effect with every comment?
The post does not exonerate Trump, it exposes the hypocrisy if those who would castigate him, but not a radical organisation that has killed millions and made the world a far more miserable and dangerous place.
No, you are wrong, I can castigate Trump and the US both at the same time, no problem.
Exactly. There is very little difference between radical Islam and far-right ideology.
Far left may be only a little less sexist (on paper) - but everything else is still the same.
I wish I could get rid of all of them... not being forced to choose one.
I'm happy to despise every form of extremism that justifies hatred and oppression. Thus most extreme religions as well as politics. Any creed or philosophy that supports the dehumanising of groups of humans is one I'm happy to condemn.
"For real sexsim, anti intellectualism and racism...
..you can't beat radical Islam. You even get anti-semitism thrown in."
Well, to be fair, you get all of those with Dominionist (radical) Christianity. They cover all of that and THEY'VE had almost 700 years LONGER than Islam has had to get over themselves.
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria and Yemen all banned from obtaining visas for entry to Kuwait and have been since 2011 IIRC so fellow muslims see them as a problem, but... Trump! Waaaah!
Maybe doesn't fit the leftist narrative? Never mind, on with your shouts of "love trumps hate" and "tolerance for all" as you burn Berkeley to the ground
What was the quote about the new fascists arriving calling themselves anti-fascists...?
"Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria and Yemen all banned from obtaining visas for entry to Kuwait and have been since 2011 IIRC so fellow muslims see them as a problem, but... Trump! Waaaah!"
I don't know the answer to this, but did they revoke the visas of people who already got them, or just stopped issuing any more? The former is the cause of the chaos here, not the latter.
So you believe it's OK USA became like Kuwait (a country defined *semi-democratic*)? So the new model for US is an Arabic, islamic state? Oh well, Trump would like to become an Emir...
Guess they also ban - like many Arab states - any Israeli citizen, or any foreigner who has been in Israel. Is that OK too? And Pakistan is an obvious source of terrorists, and where Bin Laden was hidden... why the exception?
What about Bangladesh, where many people were killed in a terrorist attack not so long ago? The Boston marathon bombers were Chechens from Kyrgyzstan... why not block Russia and many *stan countries too?
Was it an Obama list? Wasn't everything made by Obama a mistake to clear?
Trump orders are just plain propaganda. To lull its supporters, while trying to obtain the wrong reaction from the opposition, and get a reason to silence it. Something already seen... and never ended well.
Wait a second.
Did you just put a petrol-driven cleptocracy which is still discussing if women should have full rights or not (they are slightly ahead of Saudi but not by much) as our shining beacon in the night?
Are we supposed to raise our heads and say, woah, this is our ideal of Democracy, Kuwait!!!
That is probably the strawman argument of the century by all accounts. What's next? Copy our LGBLT rights legislation from African cleptocracies and put Brasil as our shining beacon of anticorruption drive?
Where is the icon for bleaurghh... (that is one thing which skype got right - it has one).
..."Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria and Yemen all banned from obtaining visas for entry to Kuwait and have been since 2011 IIRC so fellow muslims see them as a problem, but... Trump! Waaaah!..."
Country "A" does it so it's okay for the USA to do the same? Really? You want to go down that route? Surely it's up to the more socially and politically enlightened countries of this planet to lead the way in human rights and freedoms etc?
>>> Maybe doesn't fit the leftist narrative?
Yes, that is what it is, the left has deemed Mr Trump to be a Nazi, and you shall not question the left.
The modern left is just virtue signalling and SJW, they are willing to suicide you so they can keep signalling.
Arguments or reason are of course out of question.
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