back to article Coming to the big screen: Sci-fi epic Dune – no wait, wait, wait, this one might be good

The legendary sci-fi novel Dune is going to be turned into a movie again – and, thanks to director Denis Villeneuve, it may not suck. As the largest-selling sci-fi book of all time, Dune, written by Frank Herbert, is revered for its epic scale as much as for its insights into the human psyche. Despite its seemingly cinematic …

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  1. tjdennis2

    Can't be a single movie

    There is far too much content in the book to make a single 2 or 3 hour movie. Even the 3 part mini-series left out a lot of details. Now, if they could do something similar to LOTR with 3 or 4 movies...

    Not sure how well the movie would be received these days though considering Paul leads a series of terrorist attacks against the local government to finally take power from the Emperor.

    1. seven of five

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      It is not terrorism if the good guys do it. Ask your local CIA for details...

      1. Matthew Smith

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        Its certainly not terrorism if they ride giant sand worms.

      2. h4rm0ny

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        But in this case, it's almost inescapable that the USA are the parallel to the Bad Guys. Paul Atreides joins a bunch of semi-nomadic desert people whose homeland is being mercilessly exploited for its natural resources by an empire and trade guild using better technology, air support, etc. and appointing the plum job of regional governor to their own upper class politicians. (Baron Harkonen, Duke Atreides...) It's essentially Lawrence of Arabia in Space.

        Fremen or Yemen, the parallels are pretty starkly drawn. If they do this, they should absolutely carry it through to how Paul leads a semi-religious war against the rest of the galaxy leading to billions of deaths. People don't seem to do Tragedy in the classical sense anymore. It would be good to have the full arc. And I don't mean just making him a Hard Man Making Hard Choices anti-hero. I mean actually follow the path of the noble and caring leader through to the slaughtering despot he becomes.

        1. Aladdin Sane

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          But Paul doesn't lead it - it's done in his name. He resists the path of murdering despot as much as he can, until the Sardaukar murder his son.

      3. Michael Thibault
        Coat

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        >Ask your local CIA for details...

        You have their number?

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: CIA phone number

          (703) 482-0623 (during normal business hours)

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: CIA phone number

            Outside normal business hours just speak into the light switch

        2. David Roberts

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          Just post here.

          The CIA will get back to you.......

        3. LaeMing
          Unhappy

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          >>Ask your local CIA for details...

          >You have their number?

          Just send an email to any random address. They will read it.

    2. chivo243 Silver badge

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      I agree about the length and breadth of this saga. I have read all of the "Dune" books.

      About Paul being a terrorist, just remember the victors (re)write history?

      1. stephanh
        Mushroom

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        It's quite explicitly stated in the book that Paul's revolution is a rather morally ambiguous undertaking at best. In "Dune Messiah", it is explicitly stated that he is responsible for more deaths than Hitler and Genghis Khan.

        It seems unavoidable that this essential part of the narrative gets whitewashed in a Hollywood production.

        Icon to show what he did to a "natural barrier" to reach his emperor as soon as possible.

        1. Dr Dan Holdsworth

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          You have to remember that the society that Dune is set in is not a naturally evolved one, but rather a post-apocalyptic wreckage. At a point earlier in time, they had produced powerful artificial intelligences, but had not managed to keep these either friendly or on a short enough leash. Nor, apparently, had humanity started to turn into cyborg post-humanity, since the entire scenario turned into the Butlerian Jihad where the AIs got wiped out.

          This left the society with a weird wreckage of AI technology, much of which was useless in fundamental ways. They had gravity control but only on a limited basis. They had shields which work well against most projectiles, but which fail badly if hit by laser-like weapons; their laser weapons in turn are deadly if used on shielding. Presumably AIs were capable of managing the technical intricacies of stacking shields or something.

          Their technology included some form of faster than light drive, which worked but dropped the ship out of space without the ship being able to see what was actually there at the end point ahead of time. Again, AI presumably had an answer (or several answers, like only doing long distance jumps between known-empty points of space) but humanity wound up using Spice-addicted individuals who are able to predict whether dropping into normal space at a certain point will be deadly or not; very limited but accurate prescience.

          This society is living in the wreckage of a much greater one; there's not really any surprise that thus handicapped they carry on messing stuff up. Indeed the movie is a repeated series of "How will they get out of this one" scenarios.

          1. IT Poser

            Re: Can't be a single movie

            The technology of the AI was laid out fairly well in the prequels. While it's been years since I've read them I believe "Dune: The Bultarian Jihad" is the most relevant. The entire series is worth reading, and remembering, if one is to jump into a discussion involving the feared AI technology.

            Sadly I don't remember to books well enough to tell you why lasguns(I think that was the term) were not typically used in space combat before Holtzmann shields were invented. I know the history of melange was also explored in depth but, once again, I am uncertain of the details.

            1. CliveS

              Re: Can't be a single movie

              "The technology of the AI was laid out fairly well in the prequels. "

              Argh, the dreaded sequels. Eclipsed only in awfulness by the sequels written also written (if that is the right word) by Brian Herbet and Kevin J Anderson. The chances of anything in those novels being canon are slim to put it generously.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Can't be a single movie

            This left the society with a weird wreckage of AI technology, much of which was useless in fundamental ways.

            Is this about Dune, or a prediction of the future of current technology?

    3. Blake St. Claire

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      I guess Peter Jackson wasn't available.

      1. macjules

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        He was, it's just that there are not many deserts in New Zealand. Nor gigantic worms for that matter.

        1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          "Nor gigantic worms for that matter."

          They did conjure some up for the last film in The Hobbit series.

          1. Dave 126

            Re: Terrorists

            Dune does have a lot of what is now called Asymmetric Warfare, but then so does Lawrence of Arabia.

            The list of contents from Dune's Wikpedia page make's a good summery of themes that are as relevant today as they ever have been:

            4.1 Environmentalism and ecology

            4.2 Declining empires

            4.3 Middle Eastern references

            4.4 Gender dynamics

            4.5 Heroism

            4.6 Zen

        2. Youngone Silver badge
      2. Robert Helpmann??
        Childcatcher

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        Now, if they could do something similar to LOTR with 3 or 4 movies...I guess Peter Jackson wasn't available.

        To the first, I agree provided the new production doesn't gut the ending...which in turn leads me to say "Great!" to the second. Skipping the resolution and heading straight to the epilogue in the LotR movies was a disappointing finish to an otherwise great cinematic work. Dune is already acknowledged to be quite difficult to adapt. If Villeneuve doesn't work out, I would suggest Lana Wachowski or anyone else who helped bring Cloud Atlas to film.

        1. macjules

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          I would be so there with Lana Wachowski being involved. Cloud Atlas is on my all-time favourite list.

          "So who's expired in an ending flat and inane quite beyond belief now?"

          -Dermot Hoggins

      3. Kiwi
        Flame

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        I guess Peter Jackson wasn't available.

        After seeing The Horrid (or a few minutes of it in my case), aren't you glad? He didn't do too badly on the LOTR (since I hadn't read any of the books at that stage) but I had read The Hobbit several times in my teens and a couple of times later..

        What he did to that story makes me ashamed to share the same planet as him, let alone country.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      It may indeed have problems. Especially as the terrorists are "future Muslims" of Arabic Bedouin culture, and they subsequently take over the inhabited universe in a jihad. Also, the hero is the descendant of classical era Greek warriors and much of the cast spend a significant amount of time out of their mind on drugs.

      Who knows, Trump might even ban it.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        > Especially as the terrorists are "future Muslims" of Arabic Bedouin culture

        Although with blue eyes - so you just have to make them blond as well and the Americans will be alt-right behind them

        1. Jeff Cook
          FAIL

          Re: Can't be a single movie

          Speaking as an American, why would you screw up the presentation of the Fremen that way? Stop painting in broad strokes.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Can't be a single movie

            It will just need some minor changes:

            The real story is about the brave miners reducing dependence on foreign spice to make Arakis Great Again - and a bunch of no-good hippie protesters going on about destruction of sandworm habitat.

      2. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        "Who knows, Trump might even ban it."

        Thus ensuring it will be an outrageous box office success.

    5. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      The 1984 movie was an unmitigated disaster.

      The miniseries were good. While I agree that the 3 part mini-series left out a lot of details it was probably for the better. Putting everything in would have resulted in losing the plot. The way it was done was good enough.

      In fact, it was surprisingly good considering the relatively low budget and 2nd tier cast. My only objection to the mini series is that the director and script writer should read more carefully the description of Chani - the book says "Elfine", not "Elephantine".

      1. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        Elephantine? Please explain.

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Can't be a single movie

        "The 1984 movie was an unmitigated disaster."

        Frank Herbert wrote about the making of it from his point of view. It seemed that whilst Lynch had everything sorted, when they moved the filming to Mexico a lot of sequences were arbitrarily dumped because the production company claimed they were too hard to film.

        He indicated that the film wasn't too bad from his point of view - just "rushed" and I think he's right, which is the way I felt on seeing it. Novels like Dune are too long to be a single movie (the best movies are made from short stories) and unless you know the book well (I'd read it a half dozen times) there was no way of keeping up with the movie's plot.

        Whilst the film was an unmitigated commercial disaster in the english-speaking world, he pointed out that it was wildly popular in Latin America from the outset. Herbert didn't live long enough to see it turn into a cult film in other countries.

    6. Duffy Moon

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      I believe that the plan is to make more than one. Exactly how many films has yet to be revealed.

    7. Howard Hanek
      Alien

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      Perhaps if they ran it really, really fast forward......

      You can't create an entire universe with ten thousand years of history and describe all the numerous but important groups and their relationship to each other in two or three hours.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can't be a single movie

      I agree with the first comment that the book is unfilmable in a single standard length movie and would leave members of the audience who haven't read the book somewhat bemused as the breadth is just too vast; Consider Phlebas would have similar difficulties.

      The oil spice must flow, clever bloke Frank Herbert.

  2. Blake St. Claire

    I thought Arrival was decent.

    Right up to the last ten minutes.It felt like they needed to bring the movie to a close after nearly two hours, so bam, time travel. done. There's no problem so big that it can't be solved with time travel.

    Maybe I can expect this new Dune to be okay, right up to the last ten minutes?

    (And FWIW IMDB doesn't seem to be confused about who directed the 1984 version. My copy lists Alan Smithee as the director, which wikipedia says is "... a common pseudonym for directors whose film was clearly taken away from her/him and recut heavily against her/his wishes in ways that completely altered the film." Not sure who to blame for it.)

    1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

      "There's no problem so big that it can't be solved with time travel."

      A modern variant of deus ex machina. Works for most people, except for cynical bastards like us.

    2. baseh

      Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

      Just a small point about Arrival. I read the story a few years before the film and that made readily understandable the whole film.

      The film explained but not clearly and without emphasizing strongly enough the difference between the human and alien perceptions: humans view time as a linear stream advancing forever in the direction of the unknown future while the aliens view time as a fourth dimension that can be traveled at will in any direction as we travel in the three spatial dimensions so the future is known. This perception is mirrored in their writing which is circular and can be written and read in any order and has no beginning or end, it is a indivisible whole.

      Studying and internalizing the alien language unwittingly shifts the protagonist perspective to the alien one and so she can visualize her whole life past-present-and-future as a whole and not as a linear story.

      She performs all events in her personal life even after knowing the end because in the alien philosophy you do what you have to do - it is preordained and there is no choice really (Was edited to avoid spoilers)

      The alien viewpoint vs the human one is the real kernel of the story and film and it is a pity that most people (including my wife and friends) did not get it - I see it as a fault of the film - it is "boring" to explain but really necessary.

      1. Blake St. Claire

        Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

        yes, all that was evident in the movie. Still comes of as "bam, time travel, done"

        IMO.

        1. Dave 126

          Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

          >yes, all that was evident in the movie. Still comes of as "bam, time travel, done"

          IMO.

          Most time travel movies have the plot: "Find or invent time machine. Travel in time. Mess with something. Discover bad unintended consequences. Try to fix it. Fix it. The End.*" Arrival was not like that.

          *Of course we get themes and variations, where multiple time loops get invoked, or the bad stuff can't be undone. Perhaps the best of these is Primer.

          1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

            Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

            ...or the plot, "Bad guys go back in time to try to kill good guys but fail. Party on dude / I'll be back."

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

          There wasn't any time travel in Arrival.

          Spoiler

          Just someone who gained the insight to see all points of her personal timeline at once - so able to remember her own future in the same way as we remember our own past. So no free will as everything is known, nothing can be changed. The entire history of the universe is mapped out.

      2. Aladdin Sane

        Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

        Were these aliens from a wormhole near Bajor?

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

          Were these aliens from a wormhole near Bajor?

          IRT as "from a wormhole near Bangor"..

          1. Aladdin Sane

            Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

            Worthy of a day trip then.

            1. Trumpet Winsock

              Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

              Chapeau Sir

            2. David 132 Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

              Worthy of a day trip then.

              I'll raise a (Fiddler's) dram to that.

          2. Tom 64

            Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

            >> "Were these aliens from a wormhole near Bajor?"

            > "IRT as "from a wormhole near Bangor".."

            IRT as 'from a wormhole near Bognor'

      3. cray74

        Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

        The alien viewpoint vs the human one is the real kernel of the story and film and it is a pity that most people (including my wife and friends) did not get it

        Heh. My father and I left the theater starting to agree that it was a pretty solid movie and the ending, if a bit McGuffin, was understandable. However, our conversation was drowned out by an elderly roar from higher in the seating: "THAT WAS THE STUPIDEST MOVIE I'VE EVER SEEN!" A cane was, in fact, waved in the air from that gentlemen's seat.

        I assume the pensioner film critic has been spared Lawnmower Man 2 and Battlefield Earth.

    3. Andrew Moore

      Re: I thought Arrival was decent.

      It wasn't time travel, it was the ability to perceive time in a non-linear fashion.

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