Imagine a ChromeOS-style Windows 10 ... oh wait, there it is and it's called Windows Cloud Microsoft's latest Windows Insider build, released on Friday for participants in the software preview program, contains a reference to a new Windows SKU called Cloud. Microsoft declined to comment on what Windows Cloud might be, but after the name was spotted and revealed on Twitter, veteran Microsoft watcher Mary Jo Foley …
I knew this was dumb, back in the "noughties" when Micro-shaft introduced their ".Net initiative".
The whole idea that the distributed processing horsepower of a PC on every desk (in lieu of a big-iron server in an air-conditioned room of its own) would be traded in for "light client heavy server" stuff just *irked* me, like an instinctive revulsion, or a foul stench.
Well, here it is in its FULL GLORY! 'Windows Cloud'. Whee.
Might as well use those old VT100 and HP smart terminals, too.
subsequent note: this is me taking their name literally, because you KNOW it's what they want!
"What's more, Google's G Suite for Education has been widely adopted by many school districts."
No it hasn't. It's hardly used by anyone outside of a few school districts in the colonies. The link is to a 2 years old article, which says "Assuming the growth rate of 41% from 2010-2015 continues over the next five years" - which so far it hasn't.
Office 365 for education (free) has pretty much wiped the floor with Google Apps - and that was already the case back in 2015 too. See for instance http://www.bitglass.com/press-releases/bitglass-report-microsoft-office-365-surges-ahead-of-google-apps
Yes it has, there are approx 70million students using it everyday.
TBH I have very rarely evaluated a product that has made me as enthusiastic as GSuite in a school setting. It is VERY VERY good and of course can save a school a fortune in IT costs.
> Parents want their children to learn stuff they will actually use in a future job...
The only people who say that are those that have never had a job and have a weird idea of what 'business' is. The vast majority of workers in industry and business that interact with computers do so with specific business applications such as SAP, BPCS, or the many in-house systems that handle all the business transactions.
Teaching children to use MSOffice is like teaching 'domestic science' students how to order at Macdonalds. If you want to teach them about jobs then they should learn the difference between an invoice and a forward order, about how a warehouse works, about supply chains, because they won't be leaving school and be given a job as a financial analyst.
Msg, that was just clickbait, nothing ever came off it. Apple were just kicking off because ipad sales fell off a cliff, when the braindead idiots that ordered them eventually understood the limitations.
Microsoft can go take a hike after their scroogled nonsense. They simply can't be trusted. All their FUD and now it's time for their chrome OS "me too", they want to pretend it didn't happen? Thankfully, we live in a post PC era, and Microsoft have nothing I need, let alone want anymore. Their existence has no relevance at all to me.
Some of us have been saying this for time now.
MS is going service.
Apple is going service.
Adobe has already gone service.
The whole idea of the PC was to get away from timeshare.
Linux will eventually take the majority market share as it will be the only stand-alone install left.
"Linux will eventually take the majority market share as it will be the only stand-alone install left."
Linux is already doing well as this article shows because the Chrome OS used on Chromebooks is a modified version of Gentoo Linux. Not only that, more conventional Linux distributions are also increasing their market share.
Soon... the burden of owning any software will soon be a thing of the past. Imagine a future, where you no longer 'load Windows', now you just 'log on to the cloud' and there is your virtual PC, ready and waiting, wit the latest hardware - as long as you can afford to pay the monthly fee. (no root/admin access - you don't need that any more).
Upgrade online or downgrade (with a phonecall to a country 7000 miles from where you are) your package to suit your needs. Marvel at the absolute lack of any need to manage your new cloud based system, ready when you are.
Until the system goes down. Or a security issue stops the entire cloud system from working. Or a patch breaks everything.
Welcome to the future.
> Until the system goes down. Or a security issue stops the entire cloud system from working. Or a patch breaks everything.
I can't see there being a problem. IBM had this business model running really smoothly in the 1970s.
I _also_ can't see being viable when most peoples' basic computing needs are met by their phone, and the desktop productivity stuff can be handled by whatever old PC happens to be lying around.
And there's a reason that business model was wiped out by the *Personal* Computer. That business model implied almost everything was rented, and yearly license fees for whatever you needed were not cheap.
One of the reasons the PC took the place of the Unix workstation was the large availability of third party software users could buy instead of rent. That meant instead of using a computer for only a single or very few tasks tied to the expensive rented software, it was possible to use it for many different tasks thanks to the availability of many third party cheaper applications.
Of course the far less competitive market of renting systems was far more remunerative than the far more competitive market of "open" platforms.
Moreover less personal computer around (and more phones or very limited devices) will mean less people will become programmers and become more competition...
> Until the system goes down. Or a security issue stops the entire cloud system from working. Or a patch breaks everything.
I can't see there being a problem. IBM had this business model running really smoothly in the 1970s.
Yeah - but (generally) IBM then knew what they were doing. And a properly-run mainframe doesn't stop just because of a small hardware failure[1].. Especially when done in proper clusters with redundant hardware and sysops who know what they are doing[2].
[1] Software failures on the other hand. Well, lets just say that I once was a mainframe assembler programmer before I grew up and went into support.
[2] And haven't just come back from the pub after an (entirely) liquid lunch.
". Imagine a future, where you no longer 'load Windows', now you just 'log on to the cloud' and there is your virtual PC, ready and waiting, wit the latest hardware"
Google has already done it. Chrome OS is still local, but it is really light weight and runs well on any PC made this century. Then all of the services are cloud based, automatically upgraded to the latest version, all data saved in the cloud automatically, etc.
Microsoft cannot, really, go down the Google route though. Even if they could pull it off, they wouldn't want to pull it off. If they did, they would have to give away this light OS for free like Chrome OS... not going to kill the Windows' multi-billion dollar per year revenue stream. If every Office user moved to entirely browser and app versions, that would cost MSFT a ton of cash... and Google Apps are, I would argue, better if you remove the local MSFT installs so they would have that coming down on them too.
But then if they give the OS away for free (they did it with 10).
1. They would sell the hardware
2. You would HAVE to use 365 as your office suite (so year on year money)
3. Cortana and search would be tied to Bing
4. Ad supported or paid for versions of many of your programes
CapEx is old school. OpEx keeps the money rolling in year on year.
But then if they give the OS away for free (they did it with 10). - They gave Windows 10 away to consumers, who don't buy very many Windows PCs anymore. They did not give it away to corporations, where the bulk of Windows revenue comes in.
1. They would sell the hardware - Why? Google doesn't make their Chromebooks. OEMs do.
2. You would HAVE to use 365 as your office suite (so year on year money) - Why? It would be a web browser. You could use Google G Suite. Also, the web based version of 365 costs about 40% less than the local installed version, E1 vs E3.
3. Cortana and search would be tied to Bing - That's why people aren't going to want it... and Bing doesn't bring in anywhere near the revenue of Windows... and people would still likely change the default search to Google as they do with Windows today.
4. Ad supported or paid for versions of many of your programes - Drop in the bucket as compared to the losses.
> But then if they give the OS away for free (they did it with 10). - They gave Windows 10 away to consumers,
They only gave W10 'for free' to those who had already paid for Windows 7 or 8. They did not give it for free to OEMs for new machines (purchasers of new machines paid for it), nor to XP or Vista users.
Or the commoners will be used to talking about different types of loading screens and spinny thing because just like all new "as a service" it will first gives you 'Checking for Update" and "Updating".
joke aside, if people no longer own any software, then they wouldn't need the hardware either (no i7 or things like that, just cheap tablet). Nor would they need to call to upgrade because the cloud company has full control to dictate the content and features they should have.
These things sound awfully familiar to Google and MS...
Welcome to the future, where the future is Today.
You're assuming people will use this. And if they do, then you're assuming the interface will be coherent. And if it is, then you're assuming that it won't be so buggy that it makes people stop using it. And if it isn't, then you're assuming Microsoft would allow you to do anything with it. And if they do, it's just another Microsoft device you make fun of people for using.
Microsoft might have a few hurdles to overcome in a race they've joined years late. But to answer your question, wait... Windows R what? Anyone remember?
Yeah, that's true. This is really a perplexing decision on Microsoft's behalf. What are they up to? They have been trying to pretend that Chrome OS isn't anything to worry about, you must have full local installs, etc... and then they come out with this thing, which validates Google's strategy... and they are supremely likely to lose as Google already has a head start and this OS will consist of a web browser (Chrome is massively preferred vs Edge), a search engine (Google vs Bing... enough said) and an app store (not even a competition, Play Store wins easily).
> and they are supremely likely to lose as Google already has a head start
It is not about competing with Chromebook, it is about _killing_ Chromebooks made by the OEMs.
Just as WoA/RT was used to kill WebOS and Dell's Android tablets by waving 'loyalty discounts', and XP was resurrected to kill Linux netbooks, and ultimately all netbooks, this will be used against Acer, Dell, ASUS, Lenovo, etc to stop them making Chromebooks, or pay retail price for all copies of Windows that they want.
Possibly true. I think the difference this time is that they are not fighting with WebOS or Ubuntu, they are going up against Google. Google has their OSs on way more end user devices than Microsoft. The first Chromebook 2-1 built for Android apps came from Samsung. Samsung does tens of billions of business with Google OSs every year and tens of millions in business with Microsoft. If push comes to shove, they'll take Google and it isn't a difficult decision.... I don't think HP, Dell really care what MSFT does to them anymore. Not after Surface. They look at MSFT as a competitor and are looking for a way out. The OEMs get, I think, that Windows is a losing business model for them. It would be declining and low profit in any case, but on top of that MSFT has decided to directly compete with them.
Google is also in the process of heading in the other direction. Per an announcement a couple of weeks ago, all Chromebooks launched in 2017 will run Android applications. How does the Universal Windows Application application library look next to Android's? Even if you keep only the applications that work well when scaled up and/or given a hardware keyboard?
" all Chromebooks launched in 2017 will run Android applications"
So basically proper laptops then unlike the current browsing limited Slurp issued Chromebook junk. Hopefully you can upgrade them to Windows 10 for reduced spyware (and run BlueStacks if you need the Android stuff)...
Exactly. It is absolutely weird that Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that "Windows" means to its customers that it runs "Windows" apps. If it doesn't, it isn't "Windows"; that the kernel is the same is totally irrelevant.
Apple understands this better. They don't call iOS "macOS Phone", even though the kernel is the same in iOS and macOS.
> "Windows" means to its customers that it runs "Windows" apps.
While this "only runs UWPs", it seems that existing x86 Win32 'Windows programs' can be bundled into a UWP container that can be sold through the Store. Of course this will require the developers being bothered to do that for, initially at least, a tiny market where Microsoft grabs 30% of the revenue. OTOH the 30% is probably much less than is grabbed by the distributors and retailers. It also requires that Microsoft is prepared to accept the product into their Store (competitors and GPL software need not apply).
Microsoft will claim that Store UWPs are safer than software from random download sites, and thus Windows CR is the safest operating system _ever_.
I don't think that this will be tied into Ofice360. They will create Office Home and Student and full Office as UWP containers for sale through the Store, and possibly the individual programs. LibreOffice, Firefox, Chrome won't be there.
Microsoft needs to increase its revenue each year. In a declining PC sales market where prices are also falling it needs to take revenue from other sources. In this case it wants to increase revenue from its Store and it will do that by taking software revenue from retail shops, OEMs, and other software sites.
The Store will probably also offer a 'full Windows upgrade' for $199.99 so that a user can buy a CR(ap) PC that is locked down from an OEM or retail and then send money to Microsoft to unlock it when they discover its limitations.
It's far easier to repackage a current Win32 application in a sort of UWP package (won't run on phones, but still can be delivered through the store), than porting it to WinRT.
That's what MS is aiming for - see https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/appconsult/2016/10/13/desktop-bridge-the-bridge-between-win32-apps-and-the-universal-windows-platform/
The Win32 app thing is getting less and less important all the time too. Everything is moving to a sever side app run through any browser. There are a few legacy apps out there that require Windows, but very little that people actually care about.... If there are a few legacy apps, you can just XenApp them and run it through Chrome.
And you know the ISP guys are just licking their chops thinking about the data usage fees and insane bandwidth upgrades. What? Did you think unlimited plans will exist in the internet super tollway?
Yep, that will be $200 per month for Win Cloud and the virtual hardware update to run your $75 per month game and I've gone ahead and ordered you the $150 per month Souparr-MBps service and the 2 TB data option at another $150 per month. Just be sure to call ahead if you get close to the data limit because there is a $1 per kB overage penalty so you want to be sure to buy the $50 for 500 GB bump up packs. Just sign right here. Lower cost option? But this is the lowest cost option.
They are both whoring your privacy now, its just that Google has a head start on MS.
That aside, I have given a "technically challenged" friend a Chromebook and they love it as it is simple and has none of the pissing around with AV and Windows popping up warnings, etc. They know they are being whored by Google but are willing to trade it for the simplicity of something they have (almost) not broken yet.
"Microsoft for several years has been dismissive of Chromebooks, going so far as to run ads attacking the devices, from late 2012 into early 2015"
If you run ads criticizing a competing product then it's pretty obvious that you are frightened of it. Why else would you spend money belittling that product?
If you do it for the years then that means that, not only are you scared, but you aren't able to come up with something to complete.
If you then launch something to compete it proves you think your competitor was right all along.
The thing that gets me though is that where Google built something intentionally small and light to keep hardware costs down, it looks like Microsoft is launching a cut down version of Windows. Cutting down bloatware will never produce as lightweight a product as building for lightness in the first place. Ask Colin Chapman.
"If you run ads criticizing a competing product then it's pretty obvious that you are frightened of it. Why else would you spend money belittling that product?"
Because it looks like a proper laptop. People don't realise its just a web browser and would buy them on price when they really needed a proper laptop. Sensible arse covering move by Microsoft imo.
Now all they have to do is convince people that they would rather use Bing, Edge and Windows Store instead of Google, Chrome and Play Store. Best of luck with that sale.
MSFT keeps releasing these lighter weight versions of Windows, RT, 8, Mobile, etc. They always fail. The reason is that most people who are using Windows don't like change. They are often not into tech. They just want the same damn thing that they have had since the 90s without having to re-learn anything. They would have probably preferred that MSFT just kept making XP forever.
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