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back to article Doomsday Clock moves to 150 seconds before midnight. Thanks, Trump

The Doomsday Clock, maintained for the past 70 years by the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, has been moved to two and a half minutes from midnight following the election of Donald Trump. The clock was originally set at seven minutes to midnight in 1947, but this was cut to two minutes in 1953 after the US and USSR tested …

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  1. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Devil

    since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

    "Hoax of the century" is now a cause for DOOM! So says the doomsday clock. DOOM! DOOM! DOOOOOM!

    They were wrong about Ronald Reagan, too. "The bombs start falling in 5 minutes."

    With all of that DOOM, maybe George Soros will sell short on the stock market and lose another $billion.

    25 69 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

      One of the nice things that has happened over the past few years is that monumental incompetence, mismanagement, widespread innumeracy, and plain old stupidity has put the moronic denialists into 2nd place, behind the well-intentioned dough-headed ecomentals, in terms of who is doing the most harm and least good for the planet.

      The environMentals should hire a manager or something. Somebody that might grasp that the goal is to cost-effectively address the issues, not burn all the money on Earth on a few ineffective projects.

      19 41 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

        Many downvotes are apparently in favour of wasting money and resources on ineffective projects. Such attitudes are a greater menace than the denialists. Seriously. Not kidding

        To clarify, this AC is very green and seeks MORE EFFECTIVE and MORE EFFICIENT progress. Which would be a very good thing.

        Dumb ecoMentals are the new menace. They'll spend all the money of Earth to get the job 30% done. Then what?

        Hire me. I could run the global Green program vastly more efficiently and more effectively.

        We humans need to demand better management of the whole transition.

        Being stupid about it is no longer an option.

        6 2 Reply
    2. Ian Michael Gumby
      Reply Icon
      Boffin

      Bollocks ...Re: since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

      The liberal idiots are in charge of the clock and they don't understand game theory.

      They should have set the clock backwards due to Trump.

      I know, it sounds contrarian, but all one has to do is to look at Obama's foreign policy and see what happens when you don't enforce a red line and someone calls your bluff. People die.

      With Trump, is he bluffing and are you willing to call his bluff? I think not. Hence the deterrence holds.

      23 49 Reply
      1. Mark 85
        Reply Icon

        Re: Bollocks ...since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

        With Trump, is he bluffing and are you willing to call his bluff? I think not. Hence the deterrence holds.

        In a way, Trump reminds of Nixon. Is he nuts? Is he drunk? Bluffing? Or deadly serious? No one knew. Kissinger was more "rational" but the Nixon administration for many of us was viewed as being an unknown on how far he'd go if pushed. Trump has already set the stage for this with his pre-inauguration briefings and the press being abuzz about "Well why can't I use the nukes?" statements.

        30 0 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bollocks ...since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

        "nd see what happens when you don't enforce a red line and someone calls your bluff. People die."

        Err did you forget what happened when Sadam called Bush's bluff.

        10's of thousands died.

        Let's gloss over that shall we?

        21 5 Reply
        1. Charles 9
          Reply Icon

          Re: Bollocks ...since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

          But Iraq didn't have nukes. Russia and China DO. Plus China's philosophy is more amenable to preferring everyone losing to the enemy winning, meaning MAD is not necessarily a deterrent to them.

          1 2 Reply
        2. Ian Michael Gumby
          Reply Icon
          Boffin

          @Lost all faith... Re: Bollocks ...since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

          Which Bush?

          You may not be old enough to remember Desert Storm. That was my generation's war.

          (Seems so weird in saying that.)

          That was the only time Saddam proactively went in to another country under a Bush. But there was the Iran / Iraq war, but that was well before your time. (Maybe you were in nappies? )

          And if you meant to say about Bush Jr., Bush didn't bluff. Saddam did and Bush called his bluff which ironically was meant to keep the Iranians at bay.

          So please junior, learn your history. GWB shouldn't have gone in to Iraq, but hindsight is always 20/20. He gave the bad intel to Congress and they voted upon it.

          1 2 Reply
          1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: @Lost all faith... Bollocks ...since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

            Bush senior (ex-CIA boss) walked Iraq into the first war by providing a diplomat who told Saddam that the US would not invade if Iraq got into a confrontation with Kuwait. The Iraqis were pissed off because Kuwait was drilling into Iraqi oil reserves using American technology to drill horizontally into the Iraqi oil fields.

            At that time Iraq was a relatively socially moderate Arabic state without the harsh religious laws that infest the region now. American screwed that up, just as they did in 1953 in Iran - that time with British help. It's time all western governments stopped playing Game of Thrones with the Middle East.

            3 4 Reply
            1. peter_dtm
              Reply Icon
              Mushroom

              Re: @Version 1.0

              quote

              At that time Iraq was a relatively socially moderate Arabic state

              /quote

              lets remember here what a social moderate Arabic state seems to mean

              Genocide (Marsh Arabs amongst others)

              Chemical Warfare (Iran/Iraq wars)

              Bathism (currently being practised by Asad in Syria in all its 'civilised' glory)

              Secret Police

              State sponsored murder and torture

              If you think that's moderate what what on earth would you find immoderate ?

              1 0 Reply
            2. Lou 2
              Reply Icon
              Facepalm

              Re: @Lost all faith... Bollocks ...since when did 'global [warm|cool|change]ing' get added?

              Hint of the day - If you do not know anything about a subject either google the whatchamakalit out of it or just stay silent. At the time " Iraq was a relatively socially moderate Arabic state" is just not true - UAE, Jordan, Lebanon was moderate Arabic states at the time, Sigh.

              1 0 Reply
  2. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    They've neglected Leap Seconds...

    Just saying.

    13 0 Reply
    1. Mark Simon
      Reply Icon

      Re: They've neglected Leap Seconds...

      Could it be that the Dump also denies Leap Seconds … ?

      5 2 Reply
      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: They've neglected Leap Seconds...

        That Orange Idiot is the type of American who would "deny" the value of Pi and reassign it as 3 cos its easier.

        18 2 Reply
      2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Mushroom

        Re: They've neglected Leap Seconds...

        I prefer the defcon system , as seen in the movie Wargames , and probably in real life.

        1 to 5 - easy

        2 minutes to midnight? it works as an Iron Maiden song but as a scale to illustrate doom its a little unweildy.

        Ironic , seeing as those well meaning scientists probalby chose it as a simple illustration that everyman could easily understand.

        Unless I'm grasping it wrong - are we actually fucked? because thats what the clock is telling me. The furthest from doom its ever been is 17 minutes in the 90s - out of 24 HOURS??

        I'm gonna assume its a 24 hour clock , seeing as they are specifying midnight rather than 12

        there are 86400 seconds in a day , we are 150 from doom.

        That means we are 99.82638889 % fucked

        9 1 Reply
        1. Tom 38
          Reply Icon

          Re: They've neglected Leap Seconds...

          Unless I'm grasping it wrong - are we actually fucked? because thats what the clock is telling me. The furthest from doom its ever been is 17 minutes in the 90s - out of 24 HOURS??

          I'm gonna assume its a 24 hour clock , seeing as they are specifying midnight rather than 12

          there are 86400 seconds in a day , we are 150 from doom.

          That means we are 99.82638889 % fucked

          Yeah, that number seems a little low. I feel at least 99.9% fucked.

          The purpose of the clock is to point out how close we are to annihilating human civilisation. In about 15 years last century we went from the worst thing a fucknut could do is kill all the people that he can get close to, which is not an existential threat, to being able to kill everyone in the world by simply by pushing a few keys. It took creating the clock to point out to a lot of people precisely how close we now are.

          If you think of it another way, the clock is counting down how long is left for human civilisation. If you assume we've been going roughly 12,000 years, it's anticipating we've got around another 20-24 years at this rate.

          5 1 Reply
          1. Ian Michael Gumby
            Reply Icon
            Boffin

            @Tom ... Re: They've neglected Leap Seconds...

            "Yeah, that number seems a little low. I feel at least 99.9% fucked."

            Well then I'd ask the Prostitute for a prorated rate or your money back. :-P

            The problem with the clock is that those who set the clock can't tell time.

            Obama giving Iran the green light for their nuke program... that moved us ahead.

            Then there's the Norks and their submarine and ballistic missile tests. All with China keeping mum.

            Junior over there is more scary than Trump.

            And then to top it all off, the lack of vetoing the UN sanctions against Israel... another negative blow.

            4 7 Reply
  3. YARR
    FAIL

    Move along, no science here

    Just globalist propaganda for paranoid unthinking sheeple.

    Comments about expanding the nuclear arsenal are just that - comments. In reality WW3 has been averted by Trump seeking improved relations with Russia and a joint plan to defeat ISIS, as opposed to Hillary's no fly zone over Syria which would certainly have brought the US and Russia to a military stand-off.

    Climate change has been mixed in to maintain ambiguity and deniability to avoid committing to any measurable facts (i.e.Science).

    26 36 Reply
    1. Andrew Jones 2
      Reply Icon

      Re: Move along, no science here

      Really - so you honestly don't see a future where Russia is reported to have said something (real or imaginary) about Trump, Trump jumps on Twitter and has a ranty meltdown as he likes to do, pisses off Russia and they decide to retaliate? No?

      10 5 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Move along, no science here

        pisses off Russia and they decide to retaliate

        Putin is not Trump. You have to hit him for him to retaliate. In fact, not even him - hit Russia or interfere into its internal affairs by any means. This, by the way, includes sponsoring "freedom fighters", trigger happy nationalist lunatics and other similar characters in neighboring countries. I can see his point on that one too. It is difficult to explain to your population why you are supposed to stand and take it on the chin while commuter trolleybuses are being blown up or taken hostage in broad daylight and why his government is not entitled to do anything about it while USA, UK and Saudi somehow consider themselves entitled to do whatever they effing please on the subject (*).

        Just pissing him off may be taken personal and you may personally glow in the dark after that, but he is not Erdogan or Trump. There will be no aircraft carriers and submarines with nukes onboard moved just because Trump said something stupid.

        As far as Hillary and the no-fly zone, I have heard the same from quite a few Russians so there is a grain of truth there. If there wasn't they would not have deployed the biggest AAA deployment in post-WW2 history to the Syria shores for the election. Just in case.

        (*) Just quoting the UK ex-ambassador to Moscow here on the subject of entitlement. We are entitled, he is not.

        12 1 Reply
        1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Move along, no science here

          "Putin is not Trump. You have to hit him for him to retaliate. "

          Tell that to the Ukraine.

          15 2 Reply
          1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Move along, no science here

            Tell that to the Ukraine.

            You have been watching the Beeb and Faux too much.

            The story is significantly more complex that you think. The previous governments up to the current one regardless of their shapes, colors, etc did a deal with Russia:

            1. Russia keeps the Black Sea Fleet base at Novorossyisk and pays for it. That is a major difference compared to USA keeping Gitmo or UK keeping Acrotiri and using a three finger payment to the hosting country.

            2. Russian speaking minority in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine gets the right to speak their own language, be educated in their own language with the last pre-conflict administration amending this to have it as a second official language. Basically - the Irish, Finnish, etc setup.

            3. Ukraine gets subsidized gas and some more candy

            THAT was all thrown out by the window with both USA and Eu actively investing into it all being thrown out. The first act of the new government and parliament was to revoke ALL minority rights granted to the Russian minority (which is actually a majority in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea). The second one was to tear down all economic agreement. The third one was to arm neonazi militias which have openly declared that a good Russian is a dead Russian in the past (and now too).

            It is the usual case - we support someone whose first action in power is to f*** all rights we proclaim as sacred and is slightly to the right of Attilla The Hun. Traditionally this was done in Lat Am. The sole difference today is that we have shifted the activity to the Middle East and around Russia and have mixed up some religious hate for good measure (Catholic vs Orhtodox in this case).

            11 8 Reply
            1. Adam 52 Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Move along, no science here

              "The story is significantly more complex that you think."

              You missed (4). Ukraine gives up nuclear weapons and joins the NPT on the understanding that Russia will respect its borders and the rest of the world will defend them if necessary.

              Nobody's going to make that mistake again.

              8 0 Reply
              1. peter_dtm
                Reply Icon
                Flame

                Re: Move along, no science here

                and not forgetting 6

                the EU fomented a minority faction to protest against the democratically (for some value of one man one vote approaching UK standards) elected government; because the democraticaly (by a majority) elected government did not want to play footsie with the EU and piss of the Russian bear. Well the EU succeeded in destabilising the country; driving out the democratically elected president in the process; and replacing him with an pro EU anti Russian clique. The rest is history and was predicted about 2 years before it all happened.

                Having woken the Russian bear; if the EU had attempted to uphold its guarantees regarding an independent Ukraine; well; then the clock would be at 10 PAST frigging midnight. Thank you our lords & masters in Brussels for cocking up big time you selfish unelected tits (can't be arsed to do a proper rant about those unspeakable things in Brussels). When the hell are we doing article 50 ?

                1 0 Reply
          2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Move along, no science here

            > Tell that to the Ukraine.

            Uh ... yeah? How is Chocolate King doing anyway?

            0 0 Reply
          3. Peter Gathercole Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Move along, no science here @Lord Elpuss

            Wasn't the hit to Russia called the "Orange Revolution", and the following overtures made by the EU to get Ukraine to look to the EU rather than Russia?

            1 0 Reply
          4. Oh Homer
            Reply Icon
            Headmaster

            Re: "Tell that to the Ukraine"

            So you don't think that thousands of ethnic Russians being brutally slaughtered by neo-Nazi Ukrainians counts as a "hit"?

            If one fifth of the population of Mexico comprised ex-pat Americans (as is the case with ethnic Russians in Ukraine), and they were subjected to genocide at the hands of a far-right military coup, are you seriously trying to tell me that the US government would do nothing about it?

            America's hypocritical foreign policy is a sick joke.

            1 2 Reply
            1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: "Tell that to the Ukraine"

              "So you don't think that thousands of ethnic Russians being brutally slaughtered by neo-Nazi Ukrainians counts as a "hit"?"

              Prove it, Putin.

              0 2 Reply
              1. Oh Homer
                Reply Icon
                Headmaster

                Re: "Prove it, Putin"

                How about the Odessa Massacre, for starters?

                British, not Russian, BTW. I don't have to be Russian to know that the bullshit you've swallowed is just right-wing propaganda.

                0 1 Reply
                1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
                  Reply Icon

                  Re: "Prove it, Putin"

                  Blimey. Putinbot scrapes new depths by (a) going back to 1941 to justify an invasion, and (b) linking to a dubious Youtube video to back it up.

                  How about this one -> https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/otp/161114-otp-rep-PE_ENG.pdf.

                  Now back to the Kremlin basement with you.

                  0 2 Reply
                  1. Oh Homer
                    Reply Icon
                    Mushroom

                    Re: "Prove it, Putin"

                    Is that the same ICC that did nothing about genocidal war criminals like Blair and Bush, who murdered millions of innocent civilian Iraqi men, women and children as the result of an invasion based on a brazen lie, but which was really just a pretext for an oil grab?

                    Frankly The Onion's credibility is higher.

                    The "dubious Youtube video" you remain wilfully ignorant about is merely a compilation and analysis of actual news footage. The fact that neo-Nazi "Maidan" Ukranians burnt alive (in 2014, not "1941") other Ukrainian nationals (who committed the heinous crime of walking while ethnic Russian) was never in contention, even by the mainstream media. The only point of contention was "who started it", which entirely glosses over the fact that an entire building full of people was just allowed to burn for two and a half hours without any police, fire service or ambulance intervention.

                    But then I keep forgetting that both the Brexiteers and Teabaggers have transformed the UK and the US into neo-Nazi cesspools, so it's hardly surprising to find neo-Nazi denialists and outright sympathisers crawling out of the woodwork like cockroaches.

                    0 0 Reply
        2. Brangdon
          Reply Icon

          Re: Putin is not Trump

          It won't be Russia vs America, because Trump likes Russia. He's making noises about reducing NATO, which would let Russia extend into Europe and eventually Britain or France might fight back with nukes, but that's a whole other scenario.

          It is China that Trump dislikes. He's already "pissed them off" by accepting a phone call from Taiwan, and they've already retaliated by grabbing a US research drone (from the sea). If that kind of thing escalates, there's no knowing where it will stop. China owns vast amounts of US debt, for example.

          2 1 Reply
    2. Richard 81
      Reply Icon

      Re: Move along, no science here

      I don't know about anyone else, but when someone says "sheeple" I find it hard to take them seriously.

      33 1 Reply
      1. jake Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Move along, no science here

        Richard 81, do you have a better descriptive word that describes sheeple? I'm all ears. Er, eyes in this place ...

        2 3 Reply
        1. MyffyW Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          This is the year...

          Just my luck - this is the year when I finally get my act together, write that novel, lose two stone, tone up, stop drinking, cycle everywhere, wear that frock and then, at two minutes to midnight Trump presses the button and leaves me and my Linux Desktop as nought but a white shadow on the tarmac outside Aldi.

          16 0 Reply
          1. TeeCee Gold badge
            Reply Icon
            WTF?

            Re: This is the year...

            Why would you be carrying a desktop in the Aldi car park?

            Is this a deliberate ploy to puzzle future people seeing your shadow? If so, can I suggest jumping in the air and striking a "walk like an Egyptian" pose as the nuclear flash goes off to really give them cause for thought?

            7 0 Reply
          2. Frumious Bandersnatch
            Reply Icon

            Re: This is the year...

            > the year when I finally get my act together, write that novel, ...

            The Doomsday Clock certainly didn't stop Alan Moore writing "Watchmen". Contrariwise, he used it to good effect throughout the book.

            0 0 Reply
        2. AceRimmer1980
          Reply Icon

          Re: Move along, no science here

          The voting public who got fleeced?

          1 0 Reply
        3. LionelB Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Move along, no science here

          " .. do you have a better descriptive word that describes sheeple?"

          Ok, not a single word, but how about "people who don't agree with me"?

          9 0 Reply
        4. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Move along, no science here

          I don't know. Let me chew the cud for a while and I'll get back to you.

          0 1 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Only if you assume WW III would be US vs Russia

      Relations between the US and Russia were getting a little worse, but they were nowhere near "early 60s" bad. Not even late 80s post-Glasnost bad. Helping stop ISIS doesn't prevent WW III either, because they simply aren't capable of fighting on that level.

      Only four countries are truly capable of starting WW III: the US, Russia, China, and maybe Israel. If Trump makes relations with Russia better relations with China worse, and emboldens Israel to do whatever the hell they want without worrying about US backlash, I think it makes us more likely to get into WW III. But I don't think "more likely" means "very likely at all".

      US and Chinese relations might suffer and go downhill, maybe with a few potshots over those stupid "islands" in the South China Sea they want to claim. Israel might start a regional war, which unfortunately will draw US troops into something that we should let Israel fight by themselves (on the logic that if you start a fight, you should finish it yourself, not expect your big brother to come over and clock the guy you sucker punched) Defend Israel if they are attacked without provocation, sure, but not if they start it.

      But the chance of an all out WW III nuclear war? Very very small, even with a thin skinned snowflake in chief who can't keep his mouth shut. I firmly believe that if he ordered a nuclear strike that made no sense and/or was a huge escalation over the way a battle was currently being fought, the generals and sub captains who carry out the orders would refuse to do so.

      5 1 Reply
      1. JulieM Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Only if you assume WW III would be US vs Russia

        This, a hundred times this.

        Imagine you are the electrician tasked with wiring up the nuclear button on Donald Trump's desk. Nobody is ever going to be able to test it properly, so you simply leave one wire unconnected (or, if it is a push-to-break switch, screw both wires into the same terminal). If the other side fire first, you're dead anyway; but if the USA fires first, and the bombs don't go off, you are now officially the person who prevented nuclear annihilation -- and that's got to be something you can dine out on for a long time. Even if the probability is really minuscule compared to the already tiny probability of your deliberate error being found out, the payoff of being the hero(ine)? who saved the world is worth the risk of a short punishment detail.

        Now consider just how many other people there are, who are similarly in a position to sabotage the nukes, and with similar ideas about saving humanity (or even just never having to cook again) being worth a bollocking ..... Only one of whom has to fail to do their job properly, for the launch to go spectacularly Tango Uniform. And then multiply that by every country with nuclear capabilities. I almost feel sorry for anyone trying to launch the nuclear missiles. But only almost, because they did try to kill me, and everybody else.

        I just think there is too much interest in preventing a nuclear missile launch, among those actually on the front line and with the actual power of make-or-break, for it ever actually to happen.

        1 1 Reply
  4. Slx

    I'm not sure I take that doomsday clock all that seriously anymore. It's nearly as bad as those alertness colour coded warnings that tell you how panicked you're supposed to be.

    If you paid too much attention to that bloody clock you'd die of stress long before doomsday!

    Nuclear weapons however seem to prove we may never make it to being anything more than a severe but self limiting itchy rash that the Earth had for a while.

    21 2 Reply
    1. Richard 81
      Reply Icon

      The colour coded warnings can be largely ignored. Once we hit brown alert, then we should all pay attention.

      6 0 Reply
  5. vir
    Coat

    Historical Inaccuracy?

    "The Domesday Clock, maintained for the past 70 years by the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists..."

    I thought the Domesday Clock was brought over from Normandy in 1086 by William the Conqueror?

    11 0 Reply
    1. jake Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Historical Inaccuracy?

      Bill & his mates came over in 1066. The Domesday Book (etc.) was put into place in 1085, completed in 1086. The Domesday Clock only applies to The Nobility and Landed Gentry. It took ~900 years for the common people to come up with our own version, namely "the doomsday clock".

      Thankfully, that's all the History I can remember.

      5 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Historical Inaccuracy?

        "Thankfully, that's all the History I can remember."

        You got the important bit - 1066 and all that...

        5 0 Reply
      2. 's water music
        Reply Icon
        Headmaster

        Re: Historical Inaccuracy?

        Thankfully, that's all the History I can remember.

        I'm pretty sure that you have remembered too much. Whilst it was once thought that there were four (4) memorable dates in the history of England, a research done at the Eton and Harrow match revealed that two of them were NOT memorable.*

        *as any fule kno.

        3 0 Reply
      3. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Historical Inaccuracy?

        Almost correct. The clock was created not long after the doomsday book, however, they had to wait until time immemorial before they were allowed to set it.

        4 0 Reply
  6. el rekrab

    Oooh! The end is nigh! Based on opinions.

    A bit like John Ralston Saul's definition for "Dictionary": "Opinion presented as truth in alphabetical order."

    8 2 Reply

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