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back to article Make America, wait, what again? US Army may need foreign weapons to keep up

Making America great again may require foreign-made weapon systems, a possibility that would contravene the Trump administration's stated goal to "buy American and hire American." A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report published last week, "Selected Foreign Counterparts of U.S. Army Ground Combat Systems and …

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  1. Dan 55 Silver badge

    O'Rly?

    It's not because someone who's willing to throw absurd amounts of money at the military has just got the job? I'd have thought they'd have just said, "no thanks, we're good after 60 years of military industrial complex, spend it on people who need it like the unemployed".

    11 8 Reply
    1. NoneSuch Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: O'Rrly?

      Nope. Not with El Trumpo in office.

      8 7 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: O'Rly?

      Or we could spend it on the children! Think Of the children!

      In any case, unemployment in the US is - barring some "emergency bill" - paid by the individual states, not the federal government.

      10 2 Reply
  2. Chris G

    F-35 Su-35

    Perhaps they should consider buying the Su-35 from Russia, it already works and apparently doesn't need a patch Tuesday each month.

    37 0 Reply
    1. Innocent-Bystander*
      Reply Icon

      Re: F-35 Su-35

      Perhaps they should consider buying the Su-35 from Russia, it already works and apparently doesn't need a patch Tuesday each month.

      And in case of a conflict, be dependent on your adversary for munition and parts supply?

      2 2 Reply
      1. AbeSapian
        Reply Icon

        Re: F-35 Su-35

        With Trump as Putin's sock puppet, I don't think we'll be opposing Russia for at least the next four years.

        2 1 Reply
    2. eldakka
      Reply Icon

      Re: F-35 Su-35

      Not to mention the phone-home telemetry.

      Wow, it does sound like windows 10, MS isn't the prime contractor for the software is it?

      5 0 Reply
      1. Ol' Grumpy
        Reply Icon
        Coat

        Re: F-35 Su-35

        "Wow, it does sound like windows 10, MS isn't the prime contractor for the software is it?"

        BREAKING NEWS: F35 falls out of the sky after being unable to reach a licensing server.

        4 0 Reply
  3. Brian Miller

    Beware the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex

    The military procurement system is based on waste. If there is no waste, then corruption can't be sustained. The procurement model isn't geared for getting the most bang for the buck, but to move money in a system of under-the-table deals. The Pentagon spends money, and then makes up excuses for its expenditures.

    Sure, it would be nice to have sensible military spending. Unfortunately, we get things like the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, $165 billion over budget.

    20 1 Reply
    1. Richard 81
      Reply Icon

      Re: Beware the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex

      The UK's system is far simpler and more transparent: BAE Systems tell us what we want and we pay them huge amounts of money for it. Sometimes they might suddenly tell us they need even more money to finish a job, and often the end product doesn't actually work, but it's OK because it's a British company.

      20 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Beware the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex

        If you don't like it, start your own Military contractor.....

        With hookers and blackjack...

        Hell, forget the military contractor

        7 0 Reply
    2. My other car is a Stryker LAV
      Reply Icon

      Re: Beware the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex

      F-35? I though we were talking GROUND combat systems. Those of us in the engineering trenches are doing what we can with Abrams and Stryker upgrades, and rather cheaply, thank you. (Although I will admit we BLED cash on the Future Combat Systems Manned Ground Vehicle program, and some were proud of that.)

      Some history from the last 2-3 decades: European Piranha 8x8 --> Canadian LAV --> US Stryker. And all (now) owned by the same US corporation. Taxes go to Uncle Sam -- that makes it okay, right? (Never mind it's publicly traded so profits go to ALL shareholders, regardless of country.)

      2 0 Reply
  4. Stevie

    Bah!

    But ... I thought we were going with the All Drone, All The Time doctrine ...

    3 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That XM-93 Fox must be good if the Germans give 60 Fuchs.

    24 0 Reply
    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Well, they still give a Fokker.

      (yeah, yeah, I know, but they *started* in Germany and who cold forget the Red Baron and his Fokker Dreidecker?)

      6 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      60 Fuchs sounds like an ideal dogging vehicle.

      11 1 Reply
    3. tony2heads
      Reply Icon

      Translations

      'Fuchs' in German means 'Fox' in English

      3 4 Reply
      1. Aladdin Sane
        Reply Icon

        Re: Translations

        Bet you're fun at parties.

        22 0 Reply
        1. AceRimmer1980
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          Re: Translations

          So *that*'s what the fuchs says.

          1 0 Reply
      2. Alumoi Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Translations

        Spoilsport!

        3 0 Reply
      3. Sweep
        Reply Icon

        Re: Translations

        Oh fuch off

        0 0 Reply
  6. MNGrrrl

    Military-industrial 101

    It never ceases to amaze me how Europeans denegrate the military-industrial complex, without really understanding why it exists or what fuels it. Who supplies most of the EU in weapons? We do. You're paying for our industry. Yes, we have the largest military in the world; Beating out the next ten combined. But we're the biggest because of economy of scale; We have surplus upon surplus because it's *inventory*.

    And war makes for good business. It also has knock-on effects: The factories that build humvees also build automobiles. When we make advances in tank warfare because of metallurgy, we advance the state of the art in other areas like lighter-weight vehicles (the unibody design common to almost every car since the late 90s came from this) and lighter weight spacecraft. We have a budding private industry for launching satellites because of our military. We landed on the moon because the same technology that can launch ICBMs can launch people too. There is a multiplicative effect, a reciprocity, between military advances and private sector advances. The internet was created out of military need; It was not, contrary to popular opinion, slapped together by academics in a garage. Things like WiFi and spread-spectrum signalling came out of rapid-frequency shifting systems put on our stealth bombers that would resist jamming and tracking. The encryption that makes eCommerce possible was pioneered by us during WWII when we cracked the German enigma cipher.

    So understand that when you complain about the military-industrial complex... your country helped make America what it is today.

    6 50 Reply
    1. cantankerous swineherd
      Reply Icon

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      er, who cracked the enigma code? ivory tower academics and employees of govt owned utilities come to mind.

      minor snits apart, reading what the first supreme commander of allied expeditionary forces in Europe had to say regarding the military industrial complex is interesting and educative.

      43 0 Reply
    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      The encryption that makes eCommerce possible was pioneered by us during WWII when we cracked the German enigma cipher.

      Sorry to break it to you but U-571 was not historically accurate.

      59 1 Reply
    3. Clive Harris
      Reply Icon

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      <<we cracked the German enigma cipher>>

      Strange. I always thought Bletchley Park was in England.

      63 0 Reply
      1. Pompous Git Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Military-industrial 101

        Strange. I always thought Bletchley Park was in England.
        That's because it was. Until the Merkins invaded...

        11 0 Reply
        1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
          Reply Icon
          Joke

          Re: Military-industrial 101

          The Merkins tried but got lost in the Roundabout(rotaries for you left ponders) maze that is Milton Keynes.

          11 0 Reply
          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Reply Icon
            Unhappy

            " Merkins tried but got lost in the Roundabout(rotaries for you left ponders) "

            True.

            Most Merkins think IED's kill most of them abroad.

            In fact it's traffic accidents.

            They're not very good at driving on anyone elses roads but their own.

            I wonder if that's sign those are the roads they should stick to?

            9 0 Reply
          2. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            rotaries for you left ponders

            Never heard them called rotaries over here. I believe we usually call them traffic jams, where the faint of heart enter and never come out.

            3 0 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Military-industrial 101

        As far as I remember, Polskie Biuro Szyfrow was in Warsaw. And yes, (polish) government employees and ivory tower academics...

        15 0 Reply
        1. David Beck
          Reply Icon

          Re: Military-industrial 101

          Thanks, I was waiting for someone to give the Poles's their due. You might add the French lot as well as they did quite a lot of work.

          The English contribution (Bletchley Park) was to solve the problem quickly enough to be useful. Most of that work was done by the PO engineer Tommy Flowers with direction from Turing.

          Don't consider films, even English ones, as a reliable source.

          4 0 Reply
      3. tony2heads
        Reply Icon

        Re: Military-industrial 101

        Don't forget the Poles, who did the earliest work on cracking Enigma (before they were invaded)

        16 0 Reply
        1. Andy The Hat Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Military-industrial 101

          "the unibody design common to almost every car since the late 90s came from this"

          I could call you on that one then lay down the Trump card of the 1959 Mini ... not only 'unibody' but also a massively successful car with a transverse engine configuration which didn't have tracks, weighed less than 30 tons and, forgetfully, omitted a large turret ... Issigonis will be turning in his grave ...

          24 0 Reply
          1. bitten
            Reply Icon

            Re: Military-industrial 101

            Unibody is American through Joseph Ledwinka (Austrian) Citroen went to them for its Traction (1934).

            2 1 Reply
            1. Lotaresco
              Reply Icon

              Re: Military-industrial 101

              "Unibody is American through Joseph Ledwinka (Austrian) Citroen went to them for its Traction (1934)."

              No, unibody is Italian, starting with the 1922 Lancia Lambda.

              2 0 Reply
          2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Military-industrial 101

            Mini wasn't the first unibody car, by a long way..

            Honours for developing the unibody are split between Lancia of Italy and US automotive contractor Budd (who provided designs to first Citroen for the Traction Avant, and then Chrysler for its Air-Flow). Lancia used the techniques first, but as their application was an open-cockpit racing car ("torpedo"), there was never an opportunity to create a fully closed cell.

            Mini also wasn't the first transverse, front-engine, front-drive car, as this configuration dates from the late 1940s, with DKW and SAAB both using this layout. Issigonis's design was revolutionary for combining many modern design ideas into a single, affordable and usable car. Unfortunately, some of these didn't really work out, and later Mini models moved away from them (going back to steel-spring suspension, for instance). The honour of "creator of the modern front-drive car" probably has to be shared with Dante Giacosa at FIAT, who developed the Autobianchi Primula, then the FIAT 127 and 128, which between them set down the architectural pattern for nearly every FWD car that followed afterwards. But these designs built on what Issigonis had done with the Mini (as well as his earlier work on the FIAT 500 of 1957)

            7 0 Reply
          3. Lotaresco
            Reply Icon

            Re: Military-industrial 101

            "I could call you on that one then lay down the Trump card of the 1959 Mini ... "

            Whereas you are right to call him on his stupidity, the 1959 Mini wasn't the first or even an early unibody car.

            The first unibody car was the 1922 Lancia Lambda, Citroen were also pioneers in unibody construction with the Traction Avant in 1934.

            2 0 Reply
      4. Norman Nescio Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Dayton Codebreakers

        While it is well known that the Poles, and subsequently the British 'cracked' Enigma, what is not so well known is that the Americans manufactured 120 (!!!) of the 'Bombes' and used them at the United States Naval Computing Machine Laboratory, Dayton Park, Ohio to decode Enigma-encrypted messages during the Atlantic (U-boat) war.

        http://daytoncodebreakers.org

        http://daytoncodebreakers.org/brief/bombe/

        The enormous amount of resources the USA could deploy made a significant difference.

        It's also instructive to read about the 'Tunny' code and the development of the Colossus; some information about which was not declassified until June 2000 in the UK. It's a long read, but well worth it if you are interested in the history of cryptanalysis and computing.

        http://www.rutherfordjournal.org/article030109.html

        5 0 Reply
        1. Lotaresco
          Reply Icon

          Re: Dayton Codebreakers

          "the Americans manufactured 120 (!!!) of the 'Bombes' "

          Yes, using the designs given to them by Bletchley Park.

          12 0 Reply
          1. Clive Harris
            Reply Icon

            Re: Dayton Codebreakers

            <<"the Americans manufactured 120 (!!!) of the 'Bombes' "

            Yes, using the designs given to them by Bletchley Park.>>

            Interesting fact: my father, as a teen-aged draughtsman, helped draw up those designs, based on one of the encryption boxes smuggled out of Poland. The work was done under tight security, in a remote building behind armed guards. Everyone was told that they'd be shot if they ever breathed a word about what they saw in that room. He never said anything about it until the 1980's and, even then, he was reluctant to say much.

            Less interesting fact: I was married in Bletchley Parish Church, just at the edge of Bletchley Park. This was long before the place became a tourist attraction.

            3 0 Reply
    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      "The encryption that makes eCommerce possible was pioneered by us during WWII when we cracked the German enigma cipher."

      Erm...wot?

      26 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Military-industrial 101

        "Erm...wot?"

        Does sound rather nonsensical, doesn't it?

        Even ignoring the historical accuracy of the statement.....

        10 0 Reply
    5. Kernel
      Reply Icon

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      We landed on the moon because the same technology that can launch ICBMs can launch people too at the end of WW2 we grabbed a stack of really clever Germans who showed us how to do it.

      There, fixed that for you.

      60 0 Reply
    6. LaeMing
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      Orrrrr. You could have spent a lot of that money directly on developing those things, and had change over to develop more. The 'military spending promotes non-military development' is, while true as far as it goes, a myth in terms of monetary efficiency. At best, civilian spin-offs help ameliorate only a smallish portion of the costs.

      19 0 Reply
    7. Dagg Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Childcatcher

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      Things like WiFi

      You mean WiFi as invented by the Australian CSIRO.....

      31 0 Reply
    8. Brian Miller
      Reply Icon

      Re: Military-industrial 101

      Things like WiFi and spread-spectrum signalling came out of rapid-frequency shifting systems put on our stealth bombers that would resist jamming and tracking.

      Quite sorry, but no. Austrian actress Hedy Lamar invented spread-spectrum technology. Yes, a movie actress, whose U.S. patent was awarded in 1941. She was finally awarded for her inventions in 1997.

      39 0 Reply
      1. tiggity Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Military-industrial 101

        I'm ecstatic someone mentioned the lovely Hedy

        10 0 Reply
        1. x 7
          Reply Icon

          Re: Military-industrial 101

          "I'm ecstatic someone mentioned the lovely Hedy"

          Appeared in my favourite film, "Blazing Saddles"

          4 0 Reply
          1. IsJustabloke
            Reply Icon
            Trollface

            Re: Military-industrial 101

            "Appeared in my favourite film, "Blazing Saddles""

            She was tired though so give her a break!

            1 0 Reply
          2. Lotaresco
            Reply Icon

            Re: Military-industrial 101

            "Appeared in my favourite film, "Blazing Saddles""

            "That's Hedley!" to quote Harvey Korman

            Hedy Lamarr sued Warner Bros. The studio settled out of court for a small sum and an apology for “almost using her name".

            1 0 Reply

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