So...
A faulty battery huh? Well shit, quick hurry up, let's ban everything that has batteries in them!
'Exploding e-cig cost me 7 teeth, burned my face – and broke my sink!'
A man claims his e-cigarette exploded mid-puff, blew out seven of his teeth, gave him second-degree facial burns, wrecked his bathroom, and put him in intensive care. Andrew Hall, a Toyota car salesman in Pocatello, Idaho, says he was having a few drags on his cyber-ciggy while preparing to go to work when the gizmo erupted in …
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Thursday 19th January 2017 06:01 GMT Haku
Re: So...
A world without batteries? It would look something like this:
Gas powered daily life (YouTube)
We'd all die of carbon monoxide poisoning!
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Thursday 19th January 2017 10:34 GMT Ogi
Re: So...
> Gas powered daily life (YouTube)
I must be one of the few people who saw that ad when it came out and thought "How awesome would that be". The ad of course, was about how awful it would be, lol. Thanks for the share, I actually forgot about it over time.
Icon because I must have flammable liquids coursing through my veins or something.
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Friday 20th January 2017 14:16 GMT Peter2
Re: So...
The problem is that people:-
1) Buy the cheapest batteries from china. I have personally cut the wrapper on a cheap Chinese "protected cell" battery of a supposedly decent manufacture and discovered a second hand unprotected industrial cell inside. Not good.
2) Buy cheap Chinese battery transformers, which are actually just step down transformers with a nice "status" light. Dissembling a couple bundled with something else was interesting, and dissuaded me from using lithium batteries or chargers from a Chinese manufacturer given that it seems that protection circuitry might be entirely missing, yet still "CE" marked.
3) People who basically home make very high draw devices. They do so without reference to the safety guidelines (such as no sealed battery compartments) and then ignorantly do things like sticking a wire in the vent on the battery and soldering it on. Pointing out that this is fucking dangerous as it's covered the vent preventing the battery cell from becoming a terrorist cell and going "BANG" in contravention of the standard safety guidelines for lithium batteries tends to attract a cloud of abuse and cries of "we haven't had any problems so far..." To boast about how cheaply they've built their device they then tend to incorporate the cheapest batteries and chargers from eBay, see points 1 & 2 above.
The result is that yep, your going to see things like this occasionally. It's more of an issue with shoddily made devices than anything, most of the communities playing around with these things have had things go "BANG" a decade ago and then started paying a lot more attention to safety. See Candle Power Forums and some of their LED torces for good examples and plenty of safety resources. :)
So, is this putting you off vaping? Buy a decent factory device made to electrical safety standards and chill, as it won't be a problem with a device meeting the requisite electrical safety standards. This message brought to you by somebody who has never smoked or vaped, just for transparency purposes.
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 21:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
Damaged his sink?
Looks nothing like any form of blast damage to me. And having wrecked a few sinks in my time, the explosive force to smash one...well, I wouldn't want to be withing fifty yards.
Of course, he might have wacked the sink himself involuntarily as the e-fag went pop, but personally I'm not buying this tragic tale of vaping woe.
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 21:34 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Damaged his sink?
Twas a hybrid mod, and if it was a cheap one, there's a good chance that unlike a good one, there was not sufficient venting at the bottom, so when it popped, it blew the threads out at the top (Rather than venting out relatively safely), and forced the RDA into his face, rapidly followed by a plume of ignited fumes.
It's rare that good quality batteries will vent that quickly, but if it was a freshly charged cell with a dead short, it's not impossible. Which is why you don't take a battery out of the charger and use it in a high current application - not even a high powered torch (which also use 18650s).
Quite likely that he slammed the sink with the mod while trying to get it away from his face (rather than from the force of the venting/pressure buildup).
It certainly fits with the injuries he sustained (and after that happened, it's quite possible he slammed the mech into the sink by accident as he reacted to what had just happened, while trying to get it away from him).
Steven R
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Thursday 19th January 2017 02:12 GMT PNGuinn
Re: Damaged his sink?
Where on earth did he carry the tank to hold all his poison flavour enhanced nicotine wug?
5 gal tank in a backpack? That's some habit.
Glad I'm not passive smoking courtesy of that jerk.
Do him a favour. Plug him into a 400 V 3 phase mains supply, someone.
Only possible icon >>>
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Thursday 19th January 2017 04:59 GMT streaky
Re: Damaged his sink?
Yeah likely the mod is at fault. Don't use mech mods kids they hurt. I personally think they should be illegal because dumb people need protecting from themselves and I say this as somebody who was very vocal about the TPD's relevant sections.
My well-versed theory on this is fake batteries given the model is commonly faked and the chemistry of HG2's (INR/NMC) is very stable. No kidding the HG2 is very commonly (and very well) faked. I just bought 4 of them coincidentally a few days ago (from a trusted reputable source) and despite testing them to prove they're legit I'm still slightly paranoid they might be fakes - because that's where the danger is. Reality is even when those specific batteries catastrophically fail they shouldn't fail in that manner.
When these events come up the people involved never completely list their gear publicly very conveniently.
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Friday 20th January 2017 15:07 GMT Ally 1
Re: Damaged his sink?
What actually happened was that he usually got the coils for his device wound at the store. The US government recently passed regulations that people in stores couldn't assist customers, so he had to wind the coil himself. He didn't have an ohmmeter, so made a mistake and wound it with a much lower resistance than the battery could take..almost a short circuit.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 15:23 GMT entropyk48
Re: Damaged his sink?
@Hey Nony-I own 3 mas produced models, (finding a perfect smoke). They are all vented, I also have a recommended charger for multiple batteries that charge and balance them. I think there is more to this story, like a gleam of lawsuit in his eye. (Have quit a 50 year pack a day + habit, my lungs no longer squeak and wheeze, nor produce constant phlegm). Even if I were to take a hit in the face, well it may improve the face, I will still be ahead of the game without burning tobacco.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 11:51 GMT fajensen
Re: Damaged his sink?
the explosive force to smash one..
Is Tiny when applied right. I smashed our sink with one of those draw-string crackers. Just fill with water, submerge firecracker, pull, and "Crack" goes that porcelain. Didn't expect that to happen, and my mum made me pay for a new one.
There are plenty on BoobTube on firecrackers and toilets.
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 21:06 GMT redpawn
Stored Energy
Put enough energy into a small place, a battery, and put it next to something fragile while pulling a good current from said battery, it is only a matter of time before some units experience catastrophic failure. They don't allow them on aircraft for good reason and storing it in your pocket near your....
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Thursday 19th January 2017 01:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Stored Energy
Put enough energy into a small place, a battery, and put it next to something fragile while pulling a good current from said battery, it is only a matter of time before some units experience catastrophic failure. They don't allow them on aircraft for good reason and storing it in your pocket near your.....
I don't think they are banned from aircraft because of the risk of a battery fire, otherwise laptops wouldn't be allowed to be used either. They are banned for the same reason as in pubs etc, which is to pander to stupid people.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 05:57 GMT Charles 9
Re: Stored Energy
It's not batteries IN devices they completely ban (as long as they're hooked up, the device can regulate; also charging batteries BUILT to travel loose are OK, too). It's twofold:
First, they ban ALL lithium batteries of ANY type in cargo holds unless they're carried in special containers; due to confirmed stories of lithium batteries spontaneously combusting. This is because many cargo holds are unpressurized and unattended; ANY in-flight fire is an serious issue, a fire out of human reach is a Mayday.
Now, lithium batteries in the carry-on area, they can be more lax. Not only would many people not be able to fly without being able to take their stuff with them (don't laugh, they could be traveling to a not-spot or simply can't have confidential data out over the air, even encrypted), plus in the event of a fire, at least the offensive device can be pulled out and a fire extinguisher taken to it. They only ban loose batteries not meant to travel loose (usually with exposed contacts, a short-circuit risk).
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Thursday 19th January 2017 10:57 GMT GruntyMcPugh
Re: Stored Energy
"They are banned for the same reason as in pubs etc, which is to pander to stupid people."
Nope, they are banned because smoking is antisocial.
Nicotine might be a drug you choose to ingest, but unfortunately you exhale it. If I were to squirt my drink of choice into your glass, and my beer got into your white wine spritzer, I doubt you'd be happy. Same goes with my lungs and your drugs.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 11:04 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Stored Energy
A: it was banned, ostensibly, for health reasons
B: If you're affected by the tiny amount of nicotine in second hand vape, then never, ever touch a member of the nightshade family again - you'll get a damned sight more nicontine in your bloodstream from that, than you will from sitting in a room with a cloudchaser - not just because they tend to use zero nic (to avoid a niccy rush).
There is no toxicological or public health based reason to ban vaping in public places. There is an argument about ettiquette, but not about health.
It's not a case of there being no evidence of harm from second hand vapour, it's a case of there being good evidence of a lack of harm from second hand vapour.
A subtle, but important distinction.
Steven R
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Friday 20th January 2017 16:49 GMT Charles 9
Re: Stored Energy
"If you're affected by the tiny amount of nicotine in second hand vape, then never, ever touch a member of the nightshade family again - you'll get a damned sight more nicontine in your bloodstream from that"
Seriously? I get more nicotine from touching a tomato? I'd love to see where this is backed up.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 14:30 GMT ColinJ
Re: Stored Energy
guess your are not the tolerant type then.
I hope you don't drive a car or travel in planes, I should not have to breath in the fumes resulting in your selfish form of travel...
First people complain about passive smoking, now passive vaping even though there are no negative health effects and the level of nicotine exhaled is miniscule.
I guess some people like to complain.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 18:41 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Stored Energy
The only real issue with passive vaping is etiquette; there's no evidence found of anything to worry about with regards to health (never mind toxicologically significant, second hand vapour is barely biologically detectable in people).
Etiquette is a concern however, because people cloudchasing on buses and the like is what engenders that kind of negative attitude towards people who have given up smoking, like we've been told to for years, in record numbers.
I've been given shit before for saying that the "snap-back and mech mod" crowd are, by a wide margin, the biggest problem that vaping has besides puritanical regulatory issues; I stand by that, to be blunt.
They're a tiny minority of users, but when most people think 'vaper', they think of someone who puffing a massive cloud and annoying people; whereas the reality is, the average vaper is Mildred Overfinch, from just down the road from you, who's given up a thirty year habit and can now walk up the hill without having to stop twice on the way to catch her breath. And who stealth vapes on the bus so well you don't even notice it....
The issue is that the puritanical arm of public health has tried to:
Find notable harm from e-cigs to the user; this has failed.
Find any harm from e-cigs to bystanders; this has failed
Find notable harm from nicotine to the user; this has failed
Find any harm from nicotine to bystanders; this has failed
Find a verifiable (IE non-random) gateway from e-cigs to lit tobaco; this has utterly failed, to the extent where research is deliberately misconstrued to try to show otherwise.
Now they are pushing to use e-cig relate fires and battery venting injuries to push their agenda (ignoring the fact, of course, that everyone who vapes is someone who doesn't smoke, reducing the number of cigarette related fires as it goes - and they aren't uncommon), and if (a small minority) of vendors and users don't stop pissing about and taking risks with these devices, it'll only take a few pictures like the ones in this article to get a WASPY, puritanical public health minister and the foaming-at-the-mouth kind of press to push for further restrictions on e-cigs (And of course they won't make a distinction between mech mods and regulated mods) to 'protect the children' and it'll fucking work.
As I've mentioned in these sorts of threads before, I've been neck deep in the public health, political and advocacy side of e-cigs for a good while now (As have many others) and we see these patterns repeat, time and time again. And it often works.
Steven R
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Friday 20th January 2017 11:00 GMT GruntyMcPugh
Re: Stored Energy
.. except Steve, your rights end where mine start. You can exhale all you want, as long as I don't have to inhale it. It's really that simple. If someone with bad personal hygiene stood next to you, I doubt you'd be so welcoming of the odour. It's the same deal. You can make arguments that it's not harmful all you like, that in no way implies the non-smoking population are obliged to put up with it. I refer you back to my original analogy where I pollute your drink with some of mine. You wouldn't put up with having to imbibe what someone next to you chose, so why should anyone else?
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Friday 20th January 2017 16:21 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Stored Energy
I'm pretty sure I stated, quite clearly, that etiquette can be a problem with some people.
Etiquette is not something we typically base legislate on, because that would be utterly bloody barking, however.
Also, regarding your analogy, do you have your own personal air supply everywhere you go? Because the only difference between from a health standpoint between breathing in vapour and breathing in someone elses breath is that you can see it. Do you also hide indoors when it's frosty outside? All that vapour coming from peoples lungs! How rude of them to breath on me!
I will say again, to be utterly clear for you as you seem to have such poor reading comprehension, that if someone is blowing clouds in your face, that's an issue of manners - nothing else.
Steven R
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Saturday 21st January 2017 00:30 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Stored Energy
"You can exhale all you want, as long as I don't have to inhale it. It's really that simple."
No, it isn't that simple. You are basing your argument on a tiny minority of vapers who make themselves highly conspicuous with home made mixes that produce large clouds of vapour. Our local news uses the same clip every time they mention e-cigs. It's three old(ish) geezers in a pub pumping out mahoosive clouds of vapour. Personalty, I have never met anyone like that. They do exist, but are rare. Most vapers produce no more vapour than you'd see someone breathing out on a cold morning and it dissipates almost as quickly as warm breath in cold air.
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 21:09 GMT ma1010
Was that vaper built by Samsung?
Just wondering.
Sounds like a hell of a lot of force to get from a small battery explosion. Perhaps it somehow shorted and dumped a bunch of energy into the heating element all at once, but even then it's hard to imagine getting that powerful a steam explosion from a tiny bit of liquid. Curious to see hear more about how something like that could happen.
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 21:37 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Was that vaper built by Samsung?
I posted a surmisation of what likely happened above - see here:
clicky for the deviod of scroll wheels or patience
Long story short, more likely a buildup, then rapid release, of pressure (thanks to a badly maintained mod/coil causing a dead short), rather than the coil doing anything weird.
Steven R
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 23:45 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Was that vaper built by Samsung?
There is, but I very much doubt the four battery one is a mech. If it's got a screen on it, it is, basically, perfectly safe unless abused - and they're very, very hard to abuse by accident in a manner likely to cause problems.
That's why pretty much every incident like this you see invovles:
Loose batteries in a pocket with change
A misconfigured mechanical mod
Badly made, market stall crap with shitty, badly made chargers (normally using a 510 connection, not USB - USB chargers are mature, you see....)
Steven R
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Thursday 19th January 2017 09:49 GMT Triggerfish
Re: Was that vaper built by Samsung?
Oh the ones the people have at work look like decent made ones, with all the bells and whistles I'm not expecting them to go bang. But just in terms of sheer energy stored in those batteries there's a fair bit.
Just thinking of some of the chats they have about people on youtube showing their home made mods.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 18:45 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Was that vaper built by Samsung?
With home made mods, it's a bit like home made firearms - typically the person making it will have a good idea what they're doing and will know the risks (if not, I'm sure there are plenty of slots left in the Darwin Awards) as making even a mech mod requires a reasonable amount of engineering knowledge to turn the tube, thread the caps, etc.
With box mods, you typically have a MOSFET in there that will tend to burn out before the batteries pop; although that's not guaranteed, it's generally a truism that 'series/parallel' mods (without full protection circuitry) are less of a risk than a pure mech, particularly if they're in parallel rather than series.
I'll hold my hands up and say I've been out of the MOSFET game for a while though - I'm sure there are people more experienced than me who could wax on about that in more detail if they feel like it.
Steven R
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Wednesday 18th January 2017 21:17 GMT Herby
Sounds like me to be a good reason....
to stop inhaling toxic heated substances. Like those that contain nicotine, or THC (take your pick).
If you want oral gratification, a nicely formed wooden dowel will probably do the trick. Paint the end "red" and the body white, and let everyone complain at your inert oral fixation.
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Thursday 19th January 2017 09:49 GMT hmv
Re: Sounds like me to be a good reason....
You'll probably also pick up a surprising amount of nicotine from the salad (not a great deal, but the fact there is any in tomatoes, potatoes, ... was surprising to me).
Take an unfortunate fool, an unregulated mod, a damaged battery, poor maintenance, and mix with a quantity of bad luck, and you'll get something like this happening. Given the number of these sorts of accidents, the number of people who vape, and the number of house fires caused by smoking, and it's still a good bet to switch from smoking to vaping. Just don't go down the mech and hybrid routes without knowing what you're doing.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
