back to article Microsoft Germany says Windows 7 already unfit for business users

Microsoft Germany has argued that Windows 7 is no longer "fit" to be used in business. A post we've shoved through two online translate-o-tronic services states that Windows 7 “can no longer keep up with the increased security requirements” of the mid-2010s. Markus Nitschke, head of Windows at Microsoft Deutschland, is quoted …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It'll do for now

    Because I have no trust in you bastards.

    1. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: It'll do for now

      Microsoft assumes that everyone is running Office 365 on systems linked through the public Internet so naturally they need everyone to run 'the latest'.

      The problem is that not everyone is running this software -- if they are, its ancillary to their main work. For the rest of us the priority is consistency and compatibility. (This is written by someone who's had the new Microsoft stuff pushed at his desktop; words fail me with this stuff. Meanwhile they still haven't figured out that having filenames that are not case sensitive, non standard path delimiters and software that obsesses about file extensions as being important -- all relics of MS-DOS -- is a major pain in the a** for developers.)(So along comes "Windows Support for Linux". Nice idea. Crap implementation, unfortunately. Cygwin and MinGw still does the job better and there's virtualization for those that need that level of separation.)

  2. kafantaris2

    Enough Whining.

    Windows 10 is the way to go -- if you've got work to do.

    1. Avatar of They
      FAIL

      Re: Enough Whining.

      What's the pay and conditions like at Microsoft? I am curious.

    2. Dazed and Confused

      Re: Enough Whining.

      Windows 10 never has been fit for business use if any of my W10 boxes are anything to go by. The best that can be said for it is that at least it isn't quite as bad as 8.

      1. Holtsmark Silver badge

        Re: Enough Whining.

        The problem is that Microsoft skipped Windows 9

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: Enough Whining.

          "The problem is that Microsoft skipped Windows 9"

          8.1 = 9.

          According to the guys that brought you Excel.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Enough Whining.

      Does work involve candy crush saga, Xbox live and fsrmville, or wasting time trying to ignore flashing flipping files and trying to find something that used to be obvious.

      Windows 10 disaster is all about the how bad it is to use.

      A personal example,I have a batch file for logging me onto a raapebypi using putty. It's called RPI.bat. On my windows 7 machine, I typr RPI in the search, it finds it right away, I click it. On windows 10, it's in the same e place, the environment is the same, the search result comes from bing and it's a link to retail price index article on Wikipedia.

      I gave up with the free windows 10 "upgrade" after a month, and went back to Windows 7, it's far more productive

      1. Avatar of They
        Happy

        Re: Enough Whining.

        I lasted 3 days. I did an upgrade of my games machine, spent a few hours removing candy crush, telemetry and mirror.co.uk. (They came back) I tried to find some features and was directed by an MS article into the DISM or whatever powershell is called in Windows 10. While typing a command in powershell I suddenly had a moment when I thought, "I am in a command line, in Windows... an actual command line. This isn't Linux WTF."

        As a mainly Linux user since 2008 I found it ironic they are copying Linux with multiple desktops and command lines. So I had a little laugh to myself as I couldn't find in windows 10 what I was after anyway, shook myself back into reality and rolled back to windows 7 (It is for my games machine you see)

        But after reading the EULA on initial install and marvelling at how there isn't a "No" option without using invisible scroll bars to find it is below what you can see, it is easy to see how people get sucked into giving all their data away.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Enough Whining.

          10 has been in use at the last 3 places I've worked and it's been fine. I'm not happy at using it at home because of it's nosiness but that clearly hasn't bothered my employers. It certainly usable for anyone who's capable of typing the name of the application they want to run or who knows how to right click and pin to the task bar. Just like 7 and 8.

          I wonder about the ability of people who work in the industry but can't cope with some gui changes.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Enough Whining.

            "I'm not happy at using it at home because of it's nosiness but that clearly hasn't bothered my employers."

            Maybe they're not big enough to have in-house legals.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Enough Whining.

        "Does work involve candy crush saga, Xbox live and fsrmville,"

        Well...

        At this very moment I can see the reflection behind my CTO's window and his "office productivity suite" seems to conform to different standards than his minions'.

      3. Glenturret Single Malt

        Re: Enough Whining.

        If it's so important (or frequently used), why do you have to search for it every time? Why not have it on the task bar so that a single click gives you what you want? And that applies equally to W7, does it not?

        1. quxinot

          Re: Enough Whining.

          >If it's so important (or frequently used), why do you have to search for it every time?

          Thank you. There's an even better option here, though. It's an unfamiliar and unusual ability called "being organized". It works with files, and it works with things like the start menu. Of course in 10 this means installing ClassicShell or similar, and that causes a couple other problems.

          It does strike me that the best way to judge how well a computer works for a given user is not to complain about how the appearance strikes that user's taste, but instead by how much time the user spends finding workarounds and ways to make the computer do what they want as compared to simply using it, and having the interface fade into the background.

          (Posted from LMDE with Mate. Not perfect, but closer than the rest for my use.)

    4. getHandle

      Re: Enough Whining.

      "Linux is the way to go -- if you've got work to do."

      FTFY - had to be done ;-)

      1. VinceH

        Re: Enough Whining.

        ""Linux is the way to go -- if you've got work to do."

        Unfortunately, while I use a Linux box at home, and can use it for some work, it is absolutely NOT the way to go for the majority of my work - for which, ATM, a Windows computer is needed1. YMMV, of course.

        1. Currently Windows 7 (though I also have a couple of Windows 8 computers floating around).

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: Enough Whining.

          "while I use a Linux box at home, and can use it for some work, it is absolutely NOT the way to go for the majority of my work"

          How many software devs in this 'room'? Let's *FIX* *THAT*, ok? Developers, developers, developers, developers! We just need Linux versions of "whatever you are using", right? Then, NO MORE EXCUSES!

          From the article: Windows 7 "does not meet the requirements of modern technology"

          Those 'requirements' would be, what, these?

          a) ADWARE

          b) SPYWARE

          c) 2D FLATSO FLUGLY (it's "modern") <-- snark voice required

          d) FORCED UPDATES

          and so on

      2. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Enough Whining.

        "Linux is the way to go -- if you've got work to do."

        So tell me, how precisely do you run Adobe InDesign on Linux? Or do you think that book publishing isn't work?

        1. DonL

          Re: Enough Whining.

          "So tell me, how precisely do you run Adobe InDesign on Linux?"

          With Wine:

          https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=26506

          And I bet there are alternatves too that run on Linux natively.

          But feel free to stay on Windows, I'm just answering your question.

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: Enough Whining.

            With Wine:
            You've been drinking too much chardonnay (is there such a concept?) Wine lists InDesign 7 compatibility as "garbage".

            Nice try though...

            1. DonL

              Re: Enough Whining.

              "Wine lists InDesign 7 compatibility as "garbage"."

              The report you link to says: "The test results for this version are very old, and as such they may not represent the current state of Wine."

              And the newer version (CS6) is gold. (The single bug that was mentioned has a solution, in case you mention that)

              But again, feel free to stay with Windows if it works for you. No need to bring in false arguments.

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                Re: Enough Whining.

                And the newer version (CS6) is gold.
                You might think of pay-as-you-go software is gold, some of us prefer to continue using what we have already paid for. There's no useful new functionality in the rental version (from my POV), other than a purported compatibility with Wine and automatic updates.

                As things stand, InDesign 7 runs perfectly on w7 in a VM. Nor does it cost me an annual fee and risk not running on Wine when Adobe automagically upgrades the rented version.

                Peripheral to this, GoldWave 5.x supposedly runs on Wine, but I couldn't get it to create a new file. It just crashes. Runs perfectly under w7 running in a VM on Linux Mint. Just because somebody, sometime managed to get a Win app to run under Wine doesn't mean everyone can.

    5. King Jack
      Facepalm

      Re: Enough Whining.

      What business is going to be happy sharing everything they produce with M$? All your trade secrets and private communications are sent back to M$. People are either thick or insane to use Windows 10 for anything.

    6. earl grey
      Unhappy

      Re: Enough Whining.

      You're Satya and i claim my 5p (you're not worth more than that)...

    7. Florida1920

      Re: Enough Whining.

      Windows 10 is the way to go -- if you've got work to do.

      And yet, so many of us are working now (well, not at the moment), using Windows 7, and having no problems.

    8. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Enough Whining.

      Windows 10 is the way to go -- if you've got work to do.

      Depends on your 'work' and timeframe; for many millions of workers the tools they use are Office (typically one of 2007, 2010, 2013) and a browser such as Chrome or Firefox, which given these run on all currently shipping versions of Windows (with Office 2013 being the first to drop support for XP), does raise questions over the real business imperative for Win10. Particularly as MS have kindly point out Win7 can have it's security substantially enhanced by the deployment EMET.

      This isn't to suggest that businesses shouldn't be looking beyond 2020 (when Win7 and Office 2010 reach end of extended support and Win10 reaches end of mainstream support), but the case for moving to Win10 is less about real business benefits and more about maintaining IT ie. MS wasted billions on the new UI etc. because business would purchase Win10 if it had looked like 2K/XP, just to maintain their IT assets.

  3. Dwarf

    If only there was a sensible Microsoft alternative then I'm sure companies would have it on their roadmap.

    One thing is sure though, it's not going to be Windows 10 with all the spyware and forced updates and adverts. You do realise that we've got a business to run and all this IT spend is an overhead ?

    Why do you think that there are still lots of places runnning 2003 and 2008 based OS's

    1. P. Lee

      >If only there was a sensible Microsoft alternative then I'm sure companies would have it on their roadmap.

      It's called Windows 10 Enterprise and you have to buy other stuff to patch it, you (apparently) don't get the spyware and the adverts. That's reserved for freeloading scum who would never pay and pay and pay, but would just get one measily OEM license and keep it until the hardware died.

      Realistically, most people stick a few icons on the desktop and click them every now and then. Any OS can do it. The UI barely matters to the enterprise as long as the apps stay the same.

      As for security, how about isolating every application's data access? Click on a file in the file manager, it gets fed to the application which can only write back to that file or a new file. Otherwise, the application has to ask you via the OS if it wants to write to an existing file.

      So many security opportunities, so little effort.

      1. Mike 125

        >>reserved for freeloading scum who would never pay and pay and pay, but would just get one measily OEM license and keep it until the hardware died.

        You mean like, I buy a product, and just expect the f'king thing to work....... Wow. Now there's radical. It'll never catch on.

        1. Paul 129
          Flame

          Works for enterprise licenses only. So as a small business to get windows to work properly I must licence each employee for a 12 month period no matter how little they work for me. So I also need server licensing, cals and all that crap. I guess I could create special employee designations for logons rather than their names. Or I can go back to win7 and it just all works, waay faster and simpler, until I need a Kabby Lake based machine

          I want to earn money, not spend all my life trying to get MY bloody computer to work properly!

          I do not have a big enough business to support the headcount I would need to maintain this shit properly

          Windows 10 better? Muck up a shortcut in the winX folder, or have a context menu item fail, and you loose 50% of the functionally, or just have thr black screen of #_ck off, windows automatically updating drivers and trashing machines.

          And they wonder why pc sales are falling flat?

          Its astounding that people will use the horrid interfaces and keyboards on tablets and smartphones. PC's have become so unproductive that no one wants to turn on the box of bugs in the corner, unless they're forced to.

          Good one Microsoft!

      2. joed

        Enterprise build - besides the 1st LTSB - comes loaded to the brims with the same shit thrown at home users. It just includes additional toggle boxes to limit data leaks but this depends on admins (and MS does not make settings particularly clear, for reason I guess).

        Sure I can live with 10 but it makes me feel like like signing to FB (never had an account) and constant "tweaks" MS sends our way make it almost impossible to keep original settings. The system can't be broken, it is already. It works by inertia alone.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's a bare faced lie

    Windows was *never* suitable for business.

    :)

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: That's a bare faced lie

      Windows was *never* suitable for business.
      Bullshit! NT4 was a decent OS and the only viable alternative, Mac System 7, lacked virtual memory and thanks to "co-operative" multitasking, work used to grind to a halt during print jobs.

      1. Roo
        Windows

        Re: That's a bare faced lie

        "NT4 was a decent OS and the only viable alternative"

        In my experience NT4 was definitely was *not* suitable for any business that cared about security or data integrity. One of the show stopper bugs we discovered in the first week of deploying it was the corruption of compressed read-only files accessed by NT 3.51 SMB clients... Linux + Samba was better even back then... YMMV.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: That's a bare faced lie

          Linux + Samba was better even back then... YMMV.
          Obviously you're a lot smarter than most of us then. How did you manage to get Pagemaker/Xpress, Photoshop and all the other productivity software we were running on NT4 or System 7 to run on Linux? I tried to set up printer sharing using Samba on RedHat and SuSE without success. So I contacted the Samba devs for assistance. They suggested I do what they were doing: share the printer from an NT4 workstation.

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Anything you do say will be taken down and used in evidence against you

    Not good for the OS maker to say security isn't up to scratch if they've promised support till July 2017 and major security updates till January 2020.

    They should only start dropping hints it's not as secure after July or people might think they're not trying and not getting what they paid for.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Anything you do say will be taken down and used in evidence against you

      Not good for the OS maker to say security isn't up to scratch if they've promised support till July 2017 and major security updates till January 2020.

      Yes and no!

      Reading the article about the security of Win10 ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/16/windows_10_anniversary_update_crushed_exploits_without_need_of_patches/ ) it is clear MS are talking about EMET. With Win10 MS have (finally) built into the OS and enabled them, protections similar to those delivered by EMET. Thus what MS are really saying is that Windows with EMET protections enabled is more secure than Windows without EMET - which is kind of obvious really...

      However, those who have been around a while will know that businesses prefer to install a single package rather integrate multiple packages, thus the main reason why MS merged so much functionality provided by standalone utilities firstly into DOS then into Windows and why Word, Excel, Powerpoint et al. became Office...

  6. djstardust

    Really .....

    I have been running Windows 7 for years with updates turned off and basic free AV.

    It all works fine and no issues whatsoever.

    And no spying, forced updates and beta software. You can keep Windows 10 thanks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Really .....

      And no spying

      You're using free AV. Now tell me again you know that for certain ..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Really .....

      You're the kind of user that could be easily p0wned and would never discover it...

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Really .....

        You're the kind of user that could be easily p0wned and would never discover it...

        Rest assured, there are probably tens of millions of Windows users running exactly the same configuration; however, it isn't the user's fault this state of affairs exists...

      2. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Really .....

        You're the kind of user that could be easily p0wned and would never discover it...
        While I swore black and blue to never, ever have anything to do with w10 after my initial experience, I had no choice when a friend handed me his teenage daughter's machine to fix in return for what he was doing for me (saving me a few hundred dollars).

        The w10 machine was "protected" by AVG-free and absolutely loaded with malware. Replaced AVG-free with a decent paid-for AV I have a spare licence for and lo, the machine went from 5 minutes to boot to less than 30 seconds after disinfection.

    3. tr1ck5t3r
      Trollface

      Re: Really .....

      Your malware is probably operating at the firmware level now, having updated your UEFI bios, your hard drive firmware and any usb devices connected that don't need the pins of chip's in the usb devices shorted to reprogram, where those chips are reprogrammable and not the more expensive one's burnt and fixed with the same code for life.

      Nothing like exploiting capitalism on a global scale, because your HW manufacturers and Rebranders typically stop supporting their devices after a few years from when they were sold. Fancy another IoT attack like we saw in Oct 2015 on the US?

      Its amazing just how many manufacturers and AV companies don't check the firmware authenticity of USB devices when they get plugged in. In fact hacking card readers and writers for things like door entry systems makes hacking data centres even easier, when did you last sweep the building or your rack space for add-on HW?

      Its like something out of Mr Robot!

      Just start here if you want to learn how easy it easy to reprogram the firmware of your USB devices. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff537061(v=vs.85).aspx

      In the mean time I found a way yesterday to install a device driver that's bypasses UAC set to the max on W7SP1. This will probably work on W10 as well, but yet to test.

      And if you get a blue screen of death, when on some websites, just pay attention to the driver affected, sending adverts which hack the graphics card to trigger a BSOD is more common than you think, so if you use IE, enable the option: Use Software Rendering instead of GPU Rendering, this will stop adverts and images on rogue websites from tripping up your graphics card. FYI.

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Really .....

      "I have been running Windows 7 for years with updates turned off and basic free AV."

      I concur, though my updates have always been in 'manual'. And they stopped getting installed when GWX was excreted from the hideous bowels of Micro-shaft. And besides, when it takes an entire DAY to 'scan for updates', something is wrong with the process...

      With the use of 'safe surfing', vulnerabilities are MUCH LESS of a problem - even on an un-patched windows machine!

      1. don't use Intarweb Exploiter. *EVAR*

      2. use 'noscript' in Firefox, if you MUST go online with a windows machine. be aggressive with noscript. don't be fooled by "you cannot view the content".

      3. NEVER view e-mail in HTML format. And don't view images 'inline' either.

      4. NEVER open a flash video, or a PDF file that was mailed to you, with Adobe's reader.

      5. Don't use MS Office to open 'attached document files'.

      6. NEVER use MS Outlook for e-mail. *EVAR*

      7. NEVER have a public IP address on your windows computer, without some SERIOUSLY AGGRESSIVE EXTERNAL FIREWALLING. This includes IPv6.

      8. Do *NOT* trust Microsoft "anything" for security. This includes BOTH their firewall AND their virus scanner.

      Do this, and you could continue using WINDOWS XP without any worries. Seriously.

      (and use Linux or BSD for all of your web-surfing needs - it's probably using the SAME browser anyway!)

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Planned adolescence...

    That's all...

    1. getHandle

      Re: Planned adolescence...

      Subtle joke or auto-correct fail?

      I couldn't tell...

    2. Roger Greenwood

      Re: Planned adolescence...

      Nailed it. Most adolescents are not fit for work either.

  8. RealBigAl

    Microsoft Germany there, plugging Linux on the Desktop for all it's worth.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes, it's nice of them to support the Munich project. Well done, chaps.

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