back to article UK Home Office slurps 1,500 schoolkids' records per month

Brit schools are sharing the census records of up to 1,500 pupils per month as part of an attempt by the Home Office to crack down on illegal immigrants. The agreement has been in place since June 2015 under a memorandum of understanding with the Department for Education (DfE). The information came to light after it was …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When you fill out the form

    State that your child is a stateless refugee from Iraq and a failed suicide bomber.

    and wait for the reaction.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Facepalm

      Re: and wait for the reaction...

      You mean the cops knocking down your door at 3AM in the morning ?

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: and wait for the reaction...

        You mean the cops knocking down your door at 3AM in the morning ?

        You forgot the IT angle: your electricity going off 1 minute before that courtesy of that helpful bloke which was so insistent that you need to install a Smart Meter.

        1. Justice

          Re: and wait for the reaction...

          Flowers

          By

          Irene

      2. Solarflare

        Re: and wait for the reaction...

        No, 3AM in the evening, of course...

  2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

    Well, that is no surprise.

    After all we had the Home Secretary paraphrasing sections out of the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service at the Tory conference to a roaring applause.

    So much for any ideas about this government complying to international conventions too - this is in open violation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC).

    Specifically:

    Article 2 - non discrimination. You cannot create hostile environment for a specific category of children. Sorry, not allowed.

    Article 6 - life, survival and development. I do not see how this combines with the legal obligation of UK for provide everything reasonable for every child to achieve its full potential.

    Article 9, 13, 14, 16, 22, 26

    Article 28 - Every child has the right to an education

    Somebody should really take the both of the witches to court here - the convention applies to EVERY CHILD REGARDLESS OF ARE THEY LEGAL OR ILLEGAL. End of story.

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

      Pah, as every good Tory knows, you get more human rights if you have money, and none if you're poor.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

      If I were them I would play against Article 6 and 28 that the Home Office in conjunction with Education is in a position to find if any children who are recorded as entering the country are actually receiving suitable education and have not disappeared into a illegal and possibly dangerous (health&safety or psychologically) cult-run or religious school.

      1. Yesnomaybe

        Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

        It's just the Tories trying to woo back the UKIP voters.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

          It's just the Tories trying to woo back the UKIP voters.

          Concentrating their attention on children...

          As customary...

          Cough... Sputter... Cough... Sputter...

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

            "Concentrating their attention on children..."

            As tory ministers are reported to like doing.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

      Oh no, we must think of the children! Not with my taxpayer's money.

    4. technoise

      Re: And what do you expect from GruppenFuhrer Rudd?

      I am sure that the UN did not intend these rights to support human trafficking and illegal immigration across borders. When signing up to be a member of the UN, the UN had to have meant these rights to be assigned to the citizens of each country.

      If you start applying the same rights to non-citizens, as you do to citizens, and you end up having to educate the children of illegal immigrants at the expense of citizens, then that will be another magnet for illegal immigration, which I am sure we can all agree, is a bad thing.

  3. Zippy's Sausage Factory

    I think the "for illegal immigrants" bit is unneccessary

    "Wants to create a ' hostile environment ' " sounds about right to me...

    1. SVV

      I think the "wants to create" and "illegal" bits are also unnecessary.

      "has created" is much more accurate. Nice to traumatise the little kids by declaring them "illegal" in order to pander to xenophobia. Another riumph of Great British Christian Values.

  4. Sebastian Brosig

    It's about contribution to the economy,stupid!

    Hey, OK maybe they don't pay taxes but illegal immigrants still work hard and do low-paid jobs so that's good, say the ministry types.

    Even better if they are too scared to send their kids to school (lest they may be found by home office enforcers) and instead send them to do... even lower-paid jobs!

  5. ratfox

    Beware of unintended consequences

    If I remember correctly, it is explicitly forbidden for schools in Switzerland to give to the police the list of the students. From what I heard, the reason is that it is better to have children of illegals in school rather than roaming the streets. Maybe also, it is more important for all children to get a school education, than to catch all illegals.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Re: Beware of unintended consequences

      If there are people in this country who don't particularly like us I don't think that giving them even further cause to not like us is the best approach. Especially if this drives them further underground.

      I would much rather have 'illegal kids' in school getting to recognise we are far from perfect but we aren't all bad than further isolated and more exposed to radicalising influences.

      I would prefer any 'illegal neighbours' to consider me more a friend than an enemy. The government however seems hell-bent on pursuit of punishment rather than reform, sees it better to prove we are a nasty lot who don't care for them at all, regardless of the consequences. It seems they would rather create and let enmity towards us continue than try and break that chain.

      I don't feel that being 'illegal' is a particular problem of itself. If they are here then, unless they do present a specific threat to our security, it would in my opinion be better to turn them into legal and contributing members of society. That can include some sort of punishment for their having been here illegally, but community service and similar may be appropriate.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Beware of unintended consequences

        I know this will get me innumerable down votes, but I cannot agree with the argument that it is better to turn illegal immigrants into "legals".

        Call it what you want, but if they are here illegally, then they are criminals and should be treated as such. I'm not suggesting you also treat their children as criminals, but by saying "yeah, that's alright, you're here illegally but we'll give your children a free education anyway" encourages more illegal immigrants.

        Why should they be rewarded for their illegal behaviour? I know many will claim they're refugees from war-torn countries such as Syria - and that may be true. But a refugee should seek asylum in the first safe country they come to - not the one that will give their children a free education.

        1. Just Enough

          Re: Beware of unintended consequences

          "yeah, that's alright, you're a murderer but we'll give your children a free education anyway"

          "yeah, that's alright, you're a bank robber but we'll give your children a free education anyway"

          "yeah, that's alright, you're a shoplfter but we'll give your children a free education anyway"

          You're absolutely right. We should start withholding education from the children of criminals. Anything less is just encouraging them. /s

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Beware of unintended consequences

            I'm not talking about removing something that they are already entitled to, so it is a completely false argument.

            In the examples cited above, their children were already entitled to a free education before said crimes were commited.

            I see no reason to reward criminals by giving them something they have no entitlement to. Especially when they have no right to be in this country in the first place.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Beware of unintended consequences

              Yes, but you're not rewarding criminals, you're arguing for punishing children for the actions of their parents. Sure, people here illegally would benefit from education of their children and it's not free but so what? The more education we spread around the place, the better off society as a whole is.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                "... punishing children for the actions of their parents."

                How is it punishment to not give them something they aren't entilted to anyway? To give them something they aren't entitled to, is rewarding the illegal actions of their parents.

            2. Hans 1

              Re: Beware of unintended consequences

              >In the examples cited above, their children were already entitled to a free education before said crimes were commited.

              No, not necessarily, he could have committed the crime before the kids were born. You claim kids of criminals should not be allowed into schools.

              1. Officially, kids (under the age of 18) cannot be illegal immigrants.

              2. Offspring is not responsible for any crimes committed by its parents.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Beware of unintended consequences

          "Call it what you want, but if they are here illegally, then they are criminals and should be treated as such."

          Not criminals, they have not broken any criminal law, only immigration law - there is a distinct difference.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Beware of unintended consequences

            "Not criminals, they have not broken any criminal law, only immigration law - there is a distinct difference."

            Actually, living or working here illegally is a crime. Therefore an illegal immigrant is a criminal.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Beware of unintended consequences

              I'm an official criminal because I told a traffic warden to fuck off once. Are you seriously fucking suggesting that my children's education should suffer because of it? You twat.

              1. Baldy50

                Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                ┈┈┈┈┈┈▕▔╲

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                ┈┈┈┈┈┈┈▏▕▂▂▂

                ▂▂▂▂▂▂╱┈▕▂▂▂▏

                ▉▉▉▉▉┈┈┈▕▂▂▂▏

                ▉▉▉▉▉┈┈┈▕▂▂▂▏

                ▔▔▔▔▔▔╲▂▕▂▂▂▏

                Nice!

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                "I'm an official criminal because I told a traffic warden to fuck off once. Are you seriously fucking suggesting that my children's education should suffer because of it? You twat."

                Where did I say that or even suggest that? Learn to read before you post.

              3. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                Reductio ad absurdum and ad hominem. Good job. Ten points to Gryffindor.

            2. Voland's right hand Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: Beware of unintended consequences

              Actually, living or working here illegally is a crime. Therefore an illegal immigrant is a criminal.

              Correct, have a +1.

              However, last time I heard, children are not in any way responsible for the crimes of their parents. At least in civilized societies.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                "However, last time I heard, children are not in any way responsible for the crimes of their parents."

                Absolutely correct. But should they be rewarded for the crimes of their parents?

                We need a deterrent as a means of controlling our borders, and rewarding all those that break our immigration laws by giving their children a free education is hardly much of a deterrent - more of a welcome mat.

                1. Bluenose

                  Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                  Unless it can be proved otherwise in court, the ill-gotten gains of the Adams family, Ronnie Biggs and most politicians will be inherited by their children. Even the murderous Earl Lucan's children inherited his wealth and title and there are many families of criminals who have received monies from books and films about the crimes committed by their fathers. So how do we draw the line prventing children from benefiting from their parents crimes?

                  Shall we take away all the money that children earn in the adult life that their parents got from defrauding the benefit systems and used to buy the child clothes, toys and other life essentials.

                  Perhaps we should take away the assets of your family as you buy goods that are no doubt made, picked or produced by criminals in order to make money. That makes you an accessory to the crime. And remember lots of "illegal" migrants work on farms, in crappy food factories and the likes of Amazon and other companies whic you will benefit from.

                  Your arguments are simple regugitations of lazy thinking, hazy false news facts and basically a lack of knowledge.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                    "Your arguments are simple regugitations of lazy thinking, hazy false news facts and basically a lack of knowledge."

                    Which pretty much sums up your entire post.

                    Under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, the police and courts can sieze property and otherwise claim back the "ill-gotten" of those found guilty and they frequently do. So no, the children would not "inherit" or otherwise benefit in such cases where the proceeds of crime can be identified.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                  >> But should they be rewarded for the crimes of their parents?

                  Education isn't a fucking "reward" for a child - it is a basic need.

                  Next you'll say they shouldn't be "rewarded" with food and air.

            3. Bluenose

              Re: Beware of unintended consequences

              See my other post - unless tried in a criminal court and found guilty they are not criminals.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Beware of unintended consequences

                Oh, please...

                Someone's actions can be described as illegal and they can be described a criminal without them ever being brought before the court.

        3. Bluenose

          Re: Beware of unintended consequences

          No immigrant legal or otherwise comes here solely for education. The prime pupose of any form of immigration is economic that it is to earn money. Therefore to claim that free education is a driver of immigration is a nonesense. The availability of work and money is the single reason most economic migrants go t a country.

          Nor are immigrants illegal or otherwise criminals. They may have possibly committed offences (unlawful entry in to the UK) but until tried by a court of law they are innocent of any crime (basic standard of justice across all British legal systems). Their children of course cannot have committed an offence since they are brought here without consultation or say in the matter so to claim that they are criminals is also a nonsense.

          Refugees are not immigrants they are refugees and very few will fail to claim asylum when they arrive since it is in their interest to claim as refugees in order to receive the few benefits that are available to them. They do not necessarily have to claim refugee status in the first safe country they come to, this has never been a requirement. There is also recognition in the charter that it may be impossible for refugees to seek refuge in some countries due to the volume of refugees and therefero it is always probable that some refugees will travel through many countries in an effort to escape persecution and possible death. Finally a refugee can never be deemed to be illegal (that is clearly set out in the 1951 convention).

          The UK does have a right under EU law (but not for much longer) to return refugees to their country of entry to seek asylum and the associated paperwork. Once we leave the EU of course that right till probably disappear.

          I don't believe you should be down voted but I do think you need to put down the Mail/Express and use the Internet for its greated purpose, the enlightment of closed minds and education for those things one does not know anything about.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Beware of unintended consequences

            "Refugees are not immigrants they are refugees and very few will fail to claim asylum when they arrive..."

            What complete tosh. There are an estimated 1.1Million illegal immigrants in this country who have either never claimed asylum or who have had their claim rejected and done a runner.

            Refugees are immigrants - genuine refugees are *legal* immigrants. I do not have an issue with them, it is the *illegal* immigrants that I take issue with.

            "... I do think you need to put down the Mail/Express and use the Internet for its greated purpose, the enlightment of closed minds and education for those things one does not know anything about."

            And that pretty much sums up the small minded view of people like yourself. I have a different view so I must be a closed minded Mail/Express reader? How pathetic. Not that it is any of your concern, but I do not read those "news" papers nor have I ever done so. If anyone has a closed mind, it is you, for believing that anyone who doesn't agree with you must be ignorant.

            1. Bluenose

              Re: Beware of unintended consequences

              What complete tosh. There are an estimated 1.1Million illegal immigrants in this country who have either never claimed asylum or who have had their claim rejected and done a runner.

              So to be clear there are an estimated 1.1 million people of whom a number may be failed asylum seekers, some who tried to use asylum to bypass legitimate routes of entry to the UK as economic migrants and the majority who are people who are simply economic migrants. There is no facts to support your statement that there are 1,1 million illegal immigrants. Those who claim asylum must do so on entering the UK's borders. As refugees seeking asylum they are have not entered the UK illegally so long as they meet the deadline for requesting asylum and the Convention on Refugees (to which the UK is a signatory) clearly states that refugees shall not be deemed to have entered a country ilegally. Refugees receive subsistence benefits until their case is heard but may be permitted to work after six months. estimated number of refugees is 117,234 refugees and number of applications in 2015 some 38,000.

              Economic migrants who form the vast majority of both legitimate and unregistered migrants (and your 1.1 million) are not allowed to claim benefits, and would be foolish to do so as they would not be able to present the papework necessary to be able to make a valid claim. So they must receive income from elsewhere perhaps from exploitive employers who pay them less than the living wage, make them work 80+ hours a week and where they provide accommodation keep them in conditions that would be illegal for animals.

              And that pretty much sums up the small minded view of people like yourself. I have a different view so I must be a closed minded Mail/Express reader? How pathetic. Not that it is any of your concern, but I do not read those "news" papers nor have I ever done so. If anyone has a closed mind, it is you, for believing that anyone who doesn't agree with you must be ignorant.

              Actually it just shows the power of the right wing press in the UK that you can be found regurgitating the same falsehoods and bogus facts that papers like the Express and Mail publish daily. I have no problem with people having different views to mine, what I object to is people having views that they based on falsehoods and bogus or misinterpreted facts. 10 minutes on the Internet can give you a much better grasp of what the Convention on Refugees says, what the total number of refugees in the UK is and what the number of refugee applications is that the UK receives.

              You can hold your views all I ask is that before you espouse them think of the consequences that result when people use statements that stereotype, continue discredited myths and falsehoods and maybe take the time to validate your views first to avoid errors. If you feel that they are validated then feel free to post them and have a conversation with the world.

              People are killed because people don't check the facts or research a position.

        4. This post has been deleted by its author

        5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Beware of unintended consequences

          "But a refugee should seek asylum in the first safe country they come to"

          Umm, have you seen the state of the finances and the economies of places like Greece, Italy, even Spain, the places those refugees are most likely to come to first? That's a massive problem that was all over the news a few months ago but seems to have dropped off the headlines recently. The problem hasn't magically gone away or been fixed yet. Also worth noting that the UK amongst many others are arguably responsible for causing at least some of those people to be refugees in the first place.

          Also worth noting that illegal immigrants are not all refugees and not all refugees are illegal immigrants. It doesn't help when people in general and the press/media in particular conflate them either in error or to promote their own agenda.

  6. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Big Brother

    I feel so much safer

    Wonderful news that all those thousands of illegal immigrant terrorist kids will be rounded up.

    "Nothing to hide - nothing to fear" for the win!

    /s

  7. Andy00ff00

    Unfortunately the government is doing what ~52% of the electorate wanted them to do.

    Of course that 52% is merely doing what Rupert told them to do.

    Bring on the downvotes.

    1. IsJustabloke
      Facepalm

      Oh look....

      Yet another remainer assuming everyone who voted Leave is a racist. The fact that so many remainers seem to think the only possible reason for wanting to change the relationship with EU is "blimmin Foriners!!!" says a lot more about them than it does about Leavers but I guess both sides has it's hard of thinking eh?

      1. Bluenose

        Re: Oh look....

        Most leavers I met aren't racist. They are lazy parrots who simply repeat the crap printed in so many right wing newspapers.

        That fact that so many didn't even understand what Parliamentary Sovereignty means shows this as does the fact that a material number of them think the electorate is important.

  8. Hollerithevo

    So busy catching illegal parents they don't deal with abusive parents

    "Risk register" -- schools flag up kids they suspect are in danger but usually nothing is done -- buck is passed amongst agencies and the system is overwhelmed anyway. The Gov't talk a good story, but schools are hostile environment because it has made them so.

  9. veti Silver badge

    Schools should be a "hostile environment"? Yeah, can't see how that could possibly go wrong.

    If the goal is to reduce the number of people in Britain, then nice job, Home Office - because I and my children are staying right here, where people are mostly decent. That's three British citizens you've successfully driven out. Give yourselves a high five.

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