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Microsoft quietly emits patch to undo its earlier patch that broke Windows 10 networking

Anonymous Coward

Almost as if.....

...they don't know what they are doing.

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Re: Almost as if.....

or manglement forced the new methods despite engineering.

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Re: Almost as if.....

It's both, Jack.

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Headmaster

Unacceptable

Need I say anymore?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Unacceptable

OK, someone clearly thinks that issuing a patch that stops computers all over the world from connecting to the network IS acceptable.

I know the world is running out of network addresses, but refusing to give them to end users' PCs is going to help that problem.

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Re: Unacceptable

I know the world is running out of network addresses, but refusing to give them to end users' PCs is going to help that problem.

Ooh, that depends. Maybe somebody at Microsoft has found a dusty old copy of "The Limits to Growth", or is a closet follow of Malthus? As befits a dinosaur like Microsoft, rationing is a good soviet-style solution.

But looking at the trajectory of Microsoft's business model, some might imagine that the code released was actually a broken bit of code actually intended to enable a future revenue stream of "internet connectivity as a service". Got a computer, Windows 10, and a broadband connection? Tough, unless you've paid this month's Redmond tax for the DCHP app, computer says no. An income stream as reliable as being an ISP, except that they don't have to have to build or own assets, or do anything gooky like run a big distributed telecoms network.

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Windows

Never admit fault

It wasn't me, no, no, no, it wasn't me ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHgCASkTzAU

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This post has been deleted by its author

Anonymous Coward

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

It's all part of Microsoft's cunning automated Suicide Plan for Windows 10 and the rest of their company.

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Mushroom

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.

I know, I know, bitching and moaning about how things were better in the past (they really weren't) is much easier than actually dealing with the issue. I can remember computers failing because the (audio-type) tape got tangled up in the mechanism... that was slightly more complex to fix than this "ipconfig /release" "ipconfig /renew"

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Couldn't agree more, this is worst half-assed fix description ever.

I've been supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine (actually a nice bit of kit, large keyboard for his slightly less agile fingers and a lovely bright clear screen but jesus what a god awful OS) for 18 months now and it's been a total shitefest. As someone who is significantly housebound, Skype is great for him to stay in touch yet 4 times I've now had to remote access the machine to fix it due to whatever the fuck microsoft is doing to a once stable platform. Another update screwed the video driver which was a PITA to fix cause it messed with the remote desktop view too... but in about 3h I got him to execute the right sequence to patch the driver. There was the browser patch that cleared all his cookies... cheers for that, luckilly I kept a text file laying around with everything in it, but still he has to remember and re-type everything. Now this crap. How the fuck am I supposed to remotely fix his machine when it won't connect to the internet??? Sure I'll see him on boxing day when I fly up to see him, but still, now he'll miss seeing the grandkids on Christmas day and his social isolation will be compounded. Either that or I have to pay one of the crappy service places a stupid sum to do microsofts bidding.

Seriously, fuck you microsoft if this is what you do to your customers.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update."

The slight problem being that the average user is not supposed to know these commands, doesn't know how to get admin access to their terminal window, and because the computer isn't connected to the Internet can't look it up.

My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Did "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" actually work for you? I'm trying to get a machine running remotely and it didn't work and neither did the soft restart that MS suggested might work.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Nah,

This is Msoft *helping* the little guy after screwing their partner network with free updates to W10... make W10 break so you need to take your PC to the local bit-fiddler to be mended.

AC ex-little-bit-fiddler

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Joke

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"Did "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" actually work for you? I'm trying to get a machine running remotely and it didn't work"

You funny.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

It would be simple, as you explain, but how may Win10 users know of the CLI, let alone are able to use it to control their PC. Macroshaft and others have dumbed-down the userbase with their WinDoze to such an extent that even something as basic as this fix would be impossible for a significant part of the userbase.

And anyway - DHCP has been round since Methusla was in short trousers, so WHY were MacroShaft messing with it...It implies that they either got it wrong a long time ago and only just realised and patched it, or they were up to some other badness, probably related to chasing users for their data (paranoid? Moi?...Nah, just a realist!)

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them

Thirty years ago this is exactly what you found when you opened the box containing your nice new PC AT.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide "

They used to call these User Manuals back in the day..... not seen one since Windows 98 from M$...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Can you create a live USB of Linux Mint or ZorinOS to try on his equipment? I put Zorin on a neighbours desktop several years ago and other than making sure he's kept up with updates, very easy to do, It's really easy to use.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

It's probably available online as a PDF. Oh, wait....

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"Thirty years ago this is exactly what you found when you opened the box containing your nice new PC AT."

Exactly so. That was roughly when we bought a Dell with a 12.5MHz 80286 (!) which had comprehensive documentation. And a week later Michael Dell himself phoned up to ask what we were doing with it - it was the bleeding edge model.

But it also cost around £10 000 inflation adjusted.

Mac documentation of the period was also superb, including the interactive guide to train people on how to use a mouse.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.

Sure, that was the first thing I tried on the Misses' laptop and it worked.

But

There is zero chance I'm going to be able to get my mother to type those commands on her's. She now reads emails and will finally even read text messages on her phone, but despite having worked as a typist in the past she is not prepared to send email or texts. The chances of getting her (and I'm extrapolating from her) and millions of similar people to do an ipconfig... are zero.

If she gets the problem it will have to wait until I can drive over and see her. In the mean time I'll just hope she's not been affected, and hope even more that if she has, my father who as debenture hasn't tried to fix it for her.

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Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

Presumably he took your advice in the purchase?

So why does he have a Windows machine?

Every IT person I know (myself included) makes sure every family member or friend that they support for free has a Mac. (Or failing that a PC with Linux mint).

My parents have an old white macbook, after about 10 years it's just getting to the point where they will be thinking of replacing it, I would have expected them to go through 3 or 4 cheap PCs or maybe a couple of decent ones in that time.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

really? Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC, in our IT department we have 8 of us all HATE anything Apple with a passion

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Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

"Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC"

You should get out more. I don't use Mac or Windows but I know 5 or 6 at least with a desktop or laptop.

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Thumb Up

Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

Also having worked in IT for 20 years, my colleagues and I hate anything Apple in a business environment. The original poster is probably correct in saying he may of had 4 or 5 PC's during the ownership of the older Mac but he would of been able to afford them as Apple prices are ridiculous. They cannot these days be fixed or upgraded outside of the Apple store, which by the way, everything has to go back to!! Every tried getting an appointment urgently?

I'm not saying Windows is perfect....far from it. But for me, the cheaper equipment costs, the ability to maintain and upgrade "in -house" beats the "shiny-shiny" factor hands down.

Mac's may work well for a home/single user but networked in a mixed OS environment, they are about as much use as t*ts on a nun!

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

pick an alternative mechanism.....http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives Set him up a google hangout, or whatever: skye isn't the only game in town here!

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

What it needs is a big red 'FIX' button in the centre of the desktop that can't be moved or removed and they press it for you before the software leaves the factory.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.

A good option that keeps with MS's new policies would be to include a sealed envelope with "open me in case of OS failure due to updates" printed on it. Inside would be a large, glossy picture of SatNad with a big smile, giving the thumbs up as he fucks your wife.

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Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

Really? You don't know anyone outside of works that uses https regularly? Wow.

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Stop

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Did "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" actually work for you?

Didn't work for my elder brother when I was talking him through trying to get his main work PC to pick up the network..

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Anonymous Coward

Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC

That's not working in IT for 20 years - that's repeating one year for 20 years..

I bet you've never used linux, BSD or Solaris either. Must be sad and lonely to be so inexperienced.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

Mac's may work well for a home/single user but networked in a mixed OS environment, they are about as much use as t*ts on a nun!

I beg to differ. I've worked in quite a few places that use Windows and Macs. It just takes a bit of work and learning to integrate the two. If you can't manage that then you really, really don't belong in IT.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Pretty much *all* Linux install CDs are Live CDs. So download anyone of about ten billion distributions, burn the ISO file to a disk or USB schtick and boot it.

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Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

It sounds like you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Nobody pays me to fix my own machine, or those of my parents, so we are all using Macs and the support issues are practically zero.

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Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

...and where I work, there are many 'Engineering' laptops that run some sort of Linux. When the Windows drones complain about not being able to do something, we just nod and carry on working.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

What like?

/usr/share/man

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

@ipconfig /release /renew

Seriously? Do you realize the horrendously small percentage of computer users who would even know how to open a command prompt? Expand your world view and realize how useless this suggestion is to the masses...

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Nope, ipconfig /release and /renew alone certainly did not work for me, it was the first thing I tried before discovering there was something else more subtle afoot. It needed those previously published pair of netsh commands plus a restart.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."

Pointless for the average Joe; bit like the idea of self-driving cars handing full manual control over to the human, who until that point has been playing with their mobile...

Given, we were able to get a full OS complete with GUI into sub 1MB of RAM back in the 80's. I suggest we should be able to burn a complete PE recovery OS into the BIOS (This means the recovery OS is available for those occasions when either the HDD fails or is unable to boot into an OS.). User need only press the button typically engraved with cogs, spanner etc. that many vendors put on keyboards for maintenance mode to gain access and undertake various actions, such as uninstall updates, fetch new updates, enable remote access etc.

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Can you create a live USB of Linux Mint or ZorinOS to try on his equipment?

Whilst this is a good idea, it doesn't go far enough.

From all the available evidence this is an issue with Windows messing up it's runtime configuration. In these instance's the challenge is getting Windows to reset and start up correctly. I mean how do you achieve the same effect as using "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" on a running Windows box from a Live USB?

Given where David Black is coming from, the Live USB needs to be able to control the running of the host OS (treat host OS installed on HDD as a VM?) and provide him with remote maintenance access, also wholly independent of the host OS...

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

The actual fix you're looking for is 'netsh winsock reset' my friend.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Automated Suicide Plan, so that is what ".asp" stands for...

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Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

My parents have an old white macbook, after about 10 years it's just getting to the point where they will be thinking of replacing it,

If your parents are in their 80's then enjoy the fun and games of upgrading them :)

People in this age group, whilst not unable to learn do prefer to use stuff and methods they are familiar with - hence why when migrating from Windows to Linux say, it is helpful to provide them with a desktop and application suite that provide a similar UI to whichever version of Windows and applications they've been using.

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JLV
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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

That kinda hits the Powershell vs cmd.exe dilemma though.

Since El Reg's doomsday warning about cmd.exe being put to pasture I've finally had a go at PS. For complicated sysadmin stuff, like real functions with computations and environmental access, ps is arguably a bit ahead of bash. But, for simple stuff, like a 'ls | grep foo' you have to struggle through the implications of 'everything is an an object, not text'. That makes it way harder than bash for quick and dirty adhoc commands, lots of reading to do. Not to mention that scripts are disabled by default.

If users couldn't get a grip on cmd they are gonna be totally lost with powershell.

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Windows

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.

It's almost as if you wish the old DOS days to be back!

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

It didn't work for one machine I tested. Looking at my DHCP server logs, it was getting halfway through the "DORA" cycle (Discover, Offer, Request, Accept).

The client shouted out for a server, the server answered back, but then the client clamped its hands over its ears while singing "la-la-la, I can't hear you" and self-assigned itself a 169.254 address.

Not such much "DORA", more "DOH" (Discover, Offer, Hard-of-hearing).

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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

Microsoft have never been that great at DHCP. There was a feature of the way Win2000 and I think some other versions cached DHCP leases between reboots which caused us problems with our high availability cross site DHCP setup.

I forget the details, but I *think* it was something to do with the machine preserving a lease between reboots and refusing to allocate an IP address if it couldn't contact that particular DHCP server even if there was DHCP active on another IP address. If I recall correctly it meant that if a server had to be taken down for maintenance then clients rebooted with an active lease would fail to get an IP address, but clients rebooted that had no cached lease would work just fine.

Once we were able to cluster DHCP on a single IP address it became much less of a problem, but it seemed plain dumb that DHCP forwarding as per RFC lets you specify multiple servers for resilience but Microsoft's caching effectively broke or at least bent that resilience.

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Coat

Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"And just HOW, precisely, would I get the fix on a computer that can't go online to get the fix?"

Boot off a USB stick containing a live Linux distribution[1], connect to wifi[2], and then download the fix file and save it to a second USB stick. Reboot, copy and patch.

[1] Canonical will sell you a USB stick with Ubuntu on it for a fiver. There are many others, including Tails.

[2] OK, perhaps a cable into the router if the computer does not have wifi or has a proprietary driver that isn't widely available on Linux yet - fairly rare.

Coat: mine's the one with the bootable USB drive with Debian non-free live on it AND a netgear USB wifi adaptor that does not require any firmware.

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TVU
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Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

"...Sure I'll see him on boxing day when I fly up to see him, but still, now he'll miss seeing the grandkids on Christmas day and his social isolation will be compounded. Either that or I have to pay one of the crappy service places a stupid sum to do microsofts bidding.

Seriously, fuck you microsoft if this is what you do to your customers."

I am sorry that this happened to your father and this is the downside of poor testing and quality control of updates (and indeed Win 10 itself) by Microsoft.

My constructive suggestion is to look at installing Linux (no cost), using Chrome OS on a Chromebook (modest cost) or getting a 2015 Macbook Pro (high cost and not the 2016 version).

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