Not much of a chemist then?
Can't find a substitute for lard? Stupid, absolutely stupid, Prof.
Professor David Solomon, the inventor of the polymer banknote, has told vegetarians that they're being "stupid" over their opposition to its trace amounts of animal fat. The UK's new plastic notes were introduced earlier this year to replace the UK's battered and disintegrating stocks of paper** £5 notes. However, when the …
Sure. we can find a substitute.
You want to be responsible for doing all the materials tests all over again, taking months if not years, and pay for it from your tax?
You want to be responsible if the fivers start falling apart after "only" five years?
You want to be responsible for whatever media comeback when THAT material is less environmentally friendly than even the cow-notes?
You want to be responsible for the price difference in materials (tallow is basically a waste product, isn't it, and 23kg for ALL the notes isn't going to cost you much)?
You want to be responsible for when the dye or security feature has to be changed because it's not compatible with whatever substitute, and so on?
It's not just a case of "use something else", such things are planned years in advance because that money has to last 20-30 years in the field without any kind of maintenance.
What if the tallow was obtained from an animal which had died happily of old age. Surely then it's just perfectly green recycling?
I guess it could also be extracted from various human limbs certain religions deem it acceptable to hack off for various transgressions. I wonder if Saudi Arabia has thought about a possible export market?
>>The polymer in virtually all of the world’s plastic bills is made by a single Australian company, Innovia Security.
Innovia are the makers of Guardian, a substrate used to manufacture the polymer currency of 24 countries, including Canada, the United Kingdom, Mexico and New Zealand.
Tallow does not appear to be a stand-alone or critical ingredient in Guardian, but the by-product got into the substrate because it is used in processing by Innovia’s resin suppliers.<<
So it's in there accidentally by the sound of it. As such probably not going to involve masses of retesting to take it out.
So it's in there accidentally by the sound of it. As such probably not going to involve masses of retesting to take it out.
Well, no, because it's in there for a reason. The raw material is turned into pellets which facilitates transport and processing, the slight presence of tallow is there to make all of that easier. That means that removal is out of the question, and attempts to replacing it bring you straight back to the original challenge: finding something better that has less overall impact.
Now for the fun part: I too wonder how long it takes for those loony eco-warriers to work out in what other products these raw materials are used, and which thus contain a light dusting of cow. That could make for an interesting Christmas, methinks..
"But why specifically tallow? Who not something vegetable based like a shortening?"
Amongst other properties, tallow is a solid at a fairly high temperature, with a melting point of approx. 42C (107F). In the realm of transport and processing I could see that being a factor.
> could be other factors
Tallow is almost exclusively saturated fat, so it won't oxidise and become adhesive as partially unsaturated vegetable oils will - for an experiment, try treating your cricket bat with tallow, and compare with the traditional linseed oil! I'm thinking that the tiny quantities of tallow involved must be about ensuring the free-flow characteristics of the base polymer pellets. In a similar way, SmartiesTM are polished with a waxy substance to stop the sugar coatings from sticking together.
A little trivial research seems to indicate that tallow is cleaved to produce materials for soap manufacture in quite large quantities: washing one's hands is likely to generate much more contact with molecules that were once part of a cow than is handling a new fiver.
But why specifically tallow? Who not something vegetable based like a shortening?
Because there is further processing involved. These pellets get heated, mixed with colours and then injection moulded or, I suspect, rolled into sheets of some description. I don't think that tallow was just as random a "let's just take what can really annoy people" choice as people make it out to be - a production process requires many tries until you have the right fit for chemical and mechanical properties against costs.
You can't just literall throw something else in that mix because you are dealing with a LOT of variables - you change one and you get a whole chain reaction of other things you may need to adjust - and some may create worse problems from a vegan and ecological perspective.
I worked in plastic production (for my sins I have an exceptional colour vision), and even replacing colours with versions that are less of a health hazard or work better with fireproofing additives (in cars) is a swine - when you start to play with things that directly influence the chemical balance of the output it gets several shades harder.
"These pellets get heated, mixed with colours and then injection moulded or, I suspect, rolled into sheets of some description."
IIRC from an episode of How It's Made or a similar program, they use air to blow a huge balloon-like structure 3 or 4 stories high of clear plastic in a continuous manufacturing process (so I suppose it must be a cylinder rather than a balloon) Quite impressive from what I remember, but no, not rolled into sheets to make money.
Vegetable shortening usually contains hydrogenated palm oil.
The palm oil industry cuts down hundreds of acres of rain forest in Indonesia and Malaysia to plant rows of stubby oil palms. In the process they kill any number of wild animals including endangered primates. and well as the flora.
Half a cow? They're worth it.
>>I too wonder how long it takes for those loony eco-warriers to work out
>You sound like a Daily Mail reader from, let's say, the 1980s
Look, I was brought up to have respect for the environment (and none at all for the Daily Heil), but I have a rational outlook and a fair grounding in science. There are lunatics who profess to be environmentalists, just as there are lunatics who are climate change deniers. Indeed, one can feel that it is lunatic greenies who do more harm to the good fight than right-wingers, because they make it easier for Joe public to dismiss very real concerns as hysteria.
It would be best if dreadlocked crusties shut the hell up, and left the airwaves clear for people like David Attenborough and scientists to make clear, well-argued points.
Instead, we've had Greenpeace activists set fire to a GM research nursery in Australia (thus spreading GM plant matter far afield, the opposite of their intent), and the moratorium on nuclear power in Germany.
But would then make the UK use a different criteria / formulation to ALL THE OTHER 23 COUNTRIES which haven't had a problem.
That costs. Because it costs the company to refine, eliminate and test without that element which they haven't needed to for everyone else.
@Piro.
"Not really, found an article that says the Scottish ones don't contain tallow: http://theukbulletin.com/2016/12/01/scottish-polymer-bank-notes-are-vegan-friendly/"
They retracted that statement not long after making it...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38169194
If it's in there accidentally it's possible the machine that makes the pellets uses a tallow based lubricant. That could be because a lubricant with a different base might have a negative reaction with the polymer, they save a nickel, or any number of other reasons like better yield, less maintenance, etc. Either way it's all speculation at this point and most importantly they've already been made so simply tossing them in the bin won't make the animal the tallow came from any better off.
I wonder if they are using E120 dye in those bills.
@Lee D
>>because that money has to last 20-30 years in the field without any kind of maintenance.
Where did get those lifetimes? They are crazily optimistic.
How long does money last? That depends on the denomination of the note. A $1 bill lasts 18 months; $5 bill, two years; $10 bill, three years; $20 bill, four years; and $50 and $100 bills, nine years. Bills that get worn out from everyday use are taken out of circulation and replaced.
If I order some fish and chips and eat a few of the chips whilst waiting to pay, the notes I pull out of my wallet and hand over are likely to end up carrying more than trace amounts of oil, and my preference is for chippies that use beef dripping. I would imagine that cotton/linen notes would soak up more oil than plastic notes.
the new fivers are already developing permanent sharp creases, as the material seems to be unable to relax after being folded. This could well shorten their effective life. Also,more than one shopkeeper and a bank teller have all told me they're difficult to count quickly because they don't pick up on the fingers like paper.
Also, if your talking about USA dollars - they are the worst paper currency I've ever used, with perhaps the exception of Egyptian.
They appear to have been printed on a 1970s printing press on the cheapest paper known to man, and then left in circulation so long I imagine their cocaine percentage is higher than paper on the most part. dreadful stuff.
And then when you finally had a redesign, the only thing you did was add colour!! I mean WTF.
Yes.
They made a mistake, including a trace ingredient which is unnecessary, and which was always going to cause problems for a significant percentage of the population. So, they have to remove it.
Bottom line, your idea that they have to redo all of the testing is rather implausible. If the amount of tallow is so low, it's not likely to be a critical component, or have a critical impact. Tallow is pretty much just fat; it's not a specialist compound.
Tallow is pretty much just fat; it's not a specialist compound.
Oh, so I guess for you oil is just oil too? If you don't bother to check which oil you put in your car you may discover that some oils don't like it cold, some don't lubricate when it's really hot, some don't even belong in your engine but in your brakes and, for instance, olive oil doesn't suit any of those categories.
It's not "just" tallow - it's a very specific compound, chosen for very good technical reasons. You can't just swap that out with anything else without addressing the elements that made it the only choice. It is quite possible (and likely) that any alternative would have had a more negative impact on environment, cost or even publicity if it had become known. I reject the implied suggestion that the people who made those decisions don't know what they're doing.
To be honest, to me it's all a bit too much of a tea cup weather front - it's too much Trump-alike looking for problems where there aren't any, just to draw attention. We're talking about minuscule percentages of a product that would otherwise be wasted and to be frank, if that sort of energy would have been spent on finding better homes for animals it would have made more of a difference than this pathetic nitpicking. But that's just my opinion.
your idea that they have to redo all of the testing is rather implausible. If the amount of tallow is so low, it's not likely to be a critical component, or have a critical impact.
I tell you what. We'll do a run of polymer without the tallow, and you get to stand near the production line and pray we don't have a dust leak or a dodgy earth cable (because, you know, you've already removed one line of defence). Ditto for packing it, and for extra fun we won't use standard bulk transport but bag it up in 25kg bags which I'll let you stack. You will get zapped by every bag you touch, and I suspect that after an 8 hour shift you would probably not even notice if someone tasered you.
Don't worry. I'll keep a fire extinguisher ready. Your hair will need it.
Use your brain: even small amounts of tallow cost money. It needs to be sampled, transported, certified, stored, unpacked (etc etc), so it would have been left out if it wasn't really essential. This produced by a business, not a charity.
Furthermore, there is really no direct correlation between how much you use of something and how important it is or how much impact it may have. Ask anyone who suffers from a nut allergy.
"Furthermore, there is really no direct correlation between how much you use of something and how important it is or how much impact it may have. Ask anyone who suffers from a nut allergy."
But what about people like the Hindus who view cows as sacred and subject to better treatment than themselves and who also view killing of any kind as wrong because you could be killing a reincarnated relative?
But what about people like the Hindus who view cows as sacred and subject to better treatment than themselves and who also view killing of any kind as wrong because you could be killing a reincarnated relative?
If they're anywhere like my relatives I'd have no objection to have them served up with a nice pepper saus and some crispy fries and their remains be present in banknotes. They love money more than people anyway.
/sarcasm
Or maybe it's that people are more likely to sign something that they think might make a difference? If enough people complain about the tallow they'll find an animal free alternative, it's not like it's fundamental to the money making process.
See how far complaining about RIPA gets you......