back to article Airbus flies new plane for the first time

Airbus has successfully flown a new commercial jet model, with the first A350-1000 taking to the skies over Toulouse on Thursday. The A350-1000 is the new member of the A350 program, Airbus' attempt to offer a long-haul twin-engine jet a little larger and rather more modern than its A330 range, and also cheaper to operate than …

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  1. bazza Silver badge

    First Flight Challenges

    There rarely seem to be any challenges these days.

    In the old days the test pilots would strap themselves in, light the fires and take the aircraft up for a quick circuit and get it back down ASAP before one of the many items that are clearly wrong / broken / rattling / wobbling / leaking / overheating bring it down in a smoking ruin of bent, shattered and charred aluminium. A lifetime of excitement compressed into 5 minutes of sheer exhilaration, possibly ending in some parachute time.

    Nowadays it's normal to be able to take the plane up for hours on the first flight and fully explore the flight envelope. One wonders what the remainder of the flight test campaign is really for these days.

    Of course, this is a good thing.

    Anyway, congrats to Airbus and the wider aviation community for getting it right so often. It's become so normal that we moan about delays.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      This is just an extended version of the existing model. Not an entirely new plane. So having a rather dull first flight is not so surprising.

      1. bazza Silver badge

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        I know, but the first flight of the first A350 was just as uneventful. And the A330. And pretty much everything else that has been flown in recent decades.

        Back in the old days it was definitely more exciting. Bill Parks, Lockheed's legendary test pilot, demanded and got extra (extra! Ordinary danger money was already part of the package) danger money for taking Have Blue (the F117 prototype) up for the first time it was such a ramshackle assemblage of second hand junk. Hugely successful though.

        1. Denarius

          Re: First Flight Challenges

          wasn't reused components so much as Pave Blue (and F117) are so un-aerodynamic the electronics are essential to keeping the craft the right way up. That the flight control and design worked well speaks volumes about _real_ engineers pushing the boundaries of current practice but not leaping into unknown.. It also suggests that the source of the endless mirth and mockery of the flying flimflam AKA F35, has too much clever code instead of much developed code.. Now if I could just remember the pithy appellation used about the F35 another commentard used I would be a little less depressed.

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge

          "but the first flight of the first A350 was just as uneventful. And the A330."

          Several things have helped, many of them IT related.

          AFAIK all bit aircraft will be done on CAD systems and they can do automatic clearance and fit checking, Part of the original purpose of rollouts was to find what had not been done right and "shim" it together/apart as needed.

          The mfg by "hogging out" large lumps of alloy or laying up large pieces of composite eliminates a shedload of fasteners and their accumulation of tolerance IE all the little bits being slightly out adding up to a whole part that's a lot out.

          CFD (certainly below M1) is pretty good so any suspect features that may make handling difficult can be tested and either redesigned or flight rules adjusted so they are not a hazard (at least in early testing).

          This results in generally much less drama with new types.

          However you can get new problems as well. Airbus had issues when their 2 design centres had different versions of the same CAD SW. IIRC the datum points (where exactly is "0" in the X, Y, Z dimensions relative to each drawing) was just a bit out. This caused months of delay.

          Possibly the ultimate case of "More haste, less speed." (-:

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. JLV
          Coat

          Re: First Flight Challenges

          Oh, I dunno. If you average in the F35's reliability with all the others you'd see we haven't progressed quite as much.

          I know, that's a bit like a MS rant in the midst of a Linux article - not that we ever have those - my coat.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      shattered and charred aluminium

      Pah! I laugh in scorn at your aluminium, puny human: real planes are made from plywood! :-)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        real planes are made from plywood!

        Indeed. But (Mr Clark) if you're still out in Germany, some of them may not be as favourably remembered as they are on this side of the channel.

        1. Anonymous Blowhard

          Re: First Flight Challenges

          "if you're still out in Germany, some of them may not be as favourably remembered as they are on this side of the channel."

          Maybe, but I think Herman Goering was secretly a fan of British wooden planes...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: First Flight Challenges

          "Indeed. But (Mr Clark) if you're still out in Germany, some of them may not be as favourably remembered as they are on this side of the channel."

          I don't know, Hermann von Goering was very complimentary about them.

          Basically, carbon fibre and kevlar composite is just improved designer plywood. Carbon chains in a flexible polymer matrix. We've just helped natural selection on quite a bit. Grass even includes silica particles in its matrix.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Grass even includes silica particles in its matrix.

            Not the grass I smoke.

      2. kmac499

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        Pah!! Plywood; modern day composite shite..., Real aeroplanes were made from Ash planks recycled piano wire and grannys old linen sheets...

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. BebopWeBop

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        Pah! I laugh in scorn at your aluminium, puny human: real planes are made from plywood! :-)

        Pah - I raise you balsa and treated paper

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        Pah! I laugh in scorn at your plywood, puny human: real planes are made from wood, canvas and dope!

      6. PNGuinn
        Flame

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        "Pah! I laugh in scorn at your aluminium, puny human: real planes are made from plywood! :-

        Rubbish!

        REAL planes are made of second hand bicycle bits and lots of canvas doped with highly inflammable lacquer.

        REAL aero engines have wooden spinny bits on the front and highly exciting operating characteristics.

        See icon >>

        Pah, Pah.

      7. Bitbeisser

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        Mosquito anyone? ;-)

        1. Danny 14

          Re: First Flight Challenges

          The X15 gets my nod for fearless test pilots. The whole shebang could have blown at any second, it leaked, the avionics were naff, the ejector seat was "probably work up to a speed, after that better to be blown up". It had 3 control systems depending on your speed, each with a different joystick and "throttle" and "forward" headrest for deceleration! More over, many of its pilots instantly qualified as astronauts based on height achieved. It still holds the record for fastest manned powered aircraft.

          remarkable little spaceplane.

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    4. Jonathan Richards 1
      Go

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      > take the plane up for hours on the first flight and fully explore the flight envelope

      Actually, that seemed to be rather a conservative first flight, and nowhere near exploring the boundaries of the flight envelope. The Flightradar24 link shows the plane at about 10,000 ft and a groundspeed of around 200 kt for the majority of the flight, only on the last couple of legs did the throttles get opened a bit, up to 400 kt, and there was a brief excursion to around 28,000 ft.

      Contrary to statements in The Fine Article, I saw no evidence of looping. Now that would have been an exciting first flight!

      1. PhilBuk

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        Seeing as it was flying around near the Pyrenees, going up to 28,000 ft would have been advisable as most of the big peaks are 10,000-11,000 ft!

        Phil.

    5. Hans 1

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      >There rarely seem to be any challenges these days.

      TBH, I should not be answering, because I have not rid systemd off my system* .... but this is outrageous in so many respects ....

      You sound like one of the young, inexperienced, aviation engineers that take for granted what their ancestors have discovered in the field .... right until they discover that one of the innovations has the inverse effect of what they thought.

      Aviation is still, TO THIS VERY DAY, very difficult a subject ... seriously, something as simple as 'lift' still has controversies, we are not quite sure what provides lift ... these aircraft a very sophisticated, VERY sophisticated, so please ... are you a pilot or do you run IE or systemd ? I think, imho, you should step back and look at the whole picture ...

      One proof, the A330, mentioned in this very article, a mate's father .... a mate, right (honestly), now watch what you or anybody else say, DIED in a test flight of the A330, his "last" action was to save the newly built factory ... just saying ... this was 1990's and everybody thought just as you back then ... look at Appollo 13 ... this stuff is hard, in real life, easy for you from your computer keyboard god-knows-where, for sure ...

      * See my comment history

      1. PeterM42
        Holmes

        Re: First Flight Challenges

        Not just first flights - Getting you to your holiday destination is a miracle of co-ordination of which the (immensely complicated) aircraft is just a part.

    6. a_yank_lurker

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      Depends on how much new is being done with the design. Some experimental and military designs have nerve-wracking first flights. Given that most commercial designs are aerodynamically conservative and are fairly conservative designs overall, these flights should be relatively boring. If the flight is not relatively boring then there is serious design problem.

    7. Anonymous Blowhard

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      It's great that things go wrong so few times these days, but there's always risk and things can still go tragically wrong like they did two years ago when four Airbus employees were killed testing the A400M..

      It takes plenty of stones to test a new aircraft, and the flying punters owe their safety to a lot of hard work and care from everyone in the aviation industry.

    8. oldcoder

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      Several of the tests involve loading til it breaks... Then repair, and do it again.

      This requires a full test aircraft that can be used to demonstrate both safety AND repair-ability.

    9. Vic

      Re: First Flight Challenges

      In the old days the test pilots would strap themselves in, light the fires and take the aircraft up for a quick circuit

      The short-lived ones did. "Kick the tyres and light the fires" was one motto often used, and it is explicitly called out by Winkle Brown as a poor attitude. He attributed most of his success as a TP to *not* subscribing to that attitude...

      One wonders what the remainder of the flight test campaign is really for these days.

      There are three main tasks, AIUI:

      • Testing new designs to ensure they are fit for real operation
      • Testing rebuilt aircraft to ensure they have been put back together properly
      • Flying accident profiles to determine what happened

      I have friends who do or have done all of these :-)

      Vic.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wake me up when Concorde returns.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      The A380 was quite exciting, but it turning out to be a gamble that hasn't paid off, Dreamliner turned out to be the better strategy.

      The A350 is going to be very important.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        I think it's a little too early to judge the A380. Sales have been disappointing but not bad, all things considered and the markets for which it's really suitable are still growing: pilgrimages to Mecca from around the world. But for Airbus it was also the test bed of many of the techniques that it's now using in things like the A350. And, while the 787 is selling well, it had so many problems that I reckon the financials are on a par.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. RPF

            They sure should. More than one has been lost to people making camp-fires (!!!!!) in the cabin.......

            1. GrantB

              I like the Mayday/Aircrash investigation series (useful to watch it you work in IT...) So looked up if any aircraft used for the pilgrimage had gone this way.

              Probably not, it turns out, but surprisingly three aircraft have been lost to fires while doing the trips to/from Mecca.

              Mostly the result of cheap carriers packing people into charter flights, than the type of people being carried. People are stupid, but not quite 'camp fire on a aircraft' level of stupid.

          2. Robert Sneddon
            Angel

            Knock in Ireland

            has an international airport, the fourth largest in Eire. It's there to handle the half-million or so Catholic pilgrims who visit the nearby shrine every year. Religion is big business in the travel industry.

            Oh, and Lourdes? From the Wiki article on the airport at Knock:

            "On 1 June 2003, hundreds of people gathered to view an Air Atlanta Icelandic Boeing 747 land with 500 returning pilgrims from Lourdes."

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

              1. Korev Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: Knock in Ireland

                YES!

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Depends on whether the pilgrim are Shia or Sunni methinks

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Safe travel to a stopover point en route to Oz/NZ.

            I'm sure a plane load of devout Muslims on the Hajj would be less liable to "interference" than some other fights.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          " all things considered and the markets for which it's really suitable are still growing: pilgrimages to Mecca from around the world"

          There's a certain sad irony in the cutting edge science and technology used to design and build the aircraft ultimately allowing sheeple to walk around a black box in circles praying to their invisible sky fairy. Perhaps the plane could just loop around it instead a few times and save them the trouble of landing?

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Not as silly as me flying half way around the world in an aircraft stuffed full of the latest communications technology - in order to sit in a meeting while somebody shows me a Powerpoint presentation.

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
              Paris Hilton

              The last line of Animal Farm was about Stalinism, not flyover country.

              (Which are just being talked about when someone needs voters for some establishment harpie or bodies for some war in foreign lands, otherwise being the butt of "liberal" disdain, it's just sad)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wake me up when Concorde returns.

      Yes, that defined quite an era. I was glad I was working in Bristol when it made its last flight - everyone in the buildings turned out for its last flight (well, OK, we had the PA system announce it was inbound, but still :) ).

      1. Pangasinan

        Wake me up when Concorde returns.

        Ah Yes,

        Remember as a kid playing outside on the northern edge of Swindon.

        Fairford was a good few miles away but we could hear the roar of the afterburners when it took off and before we could actually get a glimpse of it if it ever headed our way.

        1. TheOtherHobbes

          Re: Wake me up when Concorde returns.

          >Fairford was a good few miles away

          There's a Heathrow approach corridor about five miles south of the M4. You could always hear Concorde inbound at least five miles either side of it.

          1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

            Re: Wake me up when Concorde returns.

            Yep. It seemed to fly right over Arkwright Rd in Reading.

            Had two flights on IMHO the most beautiful jet ever made but both were from JFK to London.

            The kick from the afterburners was something wonderful to experience.

            When the Captain announced ' Ladies and Gentlemen, we are currently flying at 600mph. We are about to go supersonic", everyone stopped what they were doing and watched the mach meter. Some americal 1ft timers would whoop and holler when it ticked over the Mach 1.0.

            Flying these days is pretty boring

            1. Vic

              Re: Wake me up when Concorde returns.

              Yep. It seemed to fly right over Arkwright Rd in Reading.

              That's roughly where the bottom of the LTMA drops to 3500ft, so you're likely to notice...

              Vic.

            2. Pedigree-Pete
              Thumb Up

              Re: Wake me up when Concorde returns.

              Co-incidence. I worked in Arkwright Road in Reading (it's not a very big street). Visitors from out of area used to stop and photograph it if they could get to a camera quick enough (pre-mobiles). Even the good burghers of Reading used to come to a standstill in Broad Street @ 11:00hrs on a Saturday (at least I think that's when it was). PP

      2. TeeCee Gold badge

        You didn't know Concorde was coming until the PA system announced its approach? That building must have had some seriously impressive soundproofing.

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