back to article Europe loves to pay by bonk* - survey

Consumers use of a mobile device – either a smartphone, tablet or wearable – to make payments has tripled over the past year, according to a Visa-backed survey. The number of Europeans regularly using a mobile device for payments has tripled from 18 per cent to 54 per cent since 2015, according to the results of an online poll …

  1. johnfbw

    Who the hell is using them daily?

    I have only seen a few people use them - usually on the tube - and even then they call it a amusing faff after they have done

    1. ColonelClaw

      Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

      Well, these days I find it mildly annoying if a card machine doesn't support Apple Pay. Simply put, it's faster and easier. Why dig out a card and type in a PIN when I can simply hold my phone near the reader?

      At a rough guess 19 out of 20 card readers work with my phone, so it's pretty rare that I need to pay for anything under 30 quid by card.

      1. ColonelClaw

        Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

        Interesting that a great new bit of technology should get so downvoted... on a technology website.

        Or was my error uttering the dreaded Apple word?

    2. BigAndos

      Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

      I used Android pay for the tube for a while but gave up as it wasn't terribly reliable. When it did work it was convenient - i have three contactless cards in my wallet and it was easier to pull my phone out and tap it. Periodically it would just stop working requiring a reboot of the phone so I have up as this is bit of a faff at the tube gates. Also, if you swap from phone back to the actual card you don't benefit from price capping!

    3. Silver
      WTF?

      Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

      I have only seen a few people use them - usually on the tube - and even then they call it a amusing faff after they have done

      Strange, I see tonnes of people using cards on the underground. I'd almost go so far to say that I see more people using their contactless bank card than I do Oyster.

      If you work in Canary Wharf then contactless is pretty much the standard payment mechanism. It's rare to find someone paying in cash and rare to find a shop that won't take contactless.

      In fact, I use contactless so much I rarely need to feel the need to carry any cash (currently I have 23p). It's rather nice.

      1. Bert 1
        Facepalm

        Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

        I did this for about 3 months earlier in the year. I had no cash on me at all.

        I came unstuck at a charity event. It seems the Scouts don't take cards when you want to buy a hot dog.

        I now carry a couple of tenners for "emergencies".

    4. killakrust
      Thumb Up

      Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

      I use Android pay for most of my transactions these days, unless the terminal does not do contactless of course). It's so much quicker than yanking out your wallet, pulling out a card, popping it in the machine, putting in your pin, waiting for authorisation. Now all I have to do yank out my phone, thumb the home button to unlock, wave near terminal, done.

      Can't wait for the £30 transaction limit to be increased (I assume it will happen at some point).

      1. Danny 14

        Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

        It wont work on my phone. I blew the soft fuse when I rooted and put a decent firmware on there. I'll take a rooted phone with decent firmware over an app controlling my finances via NFC any day.

        Plus Id not trust it to use my phone over the OTHER payment types that already have contactless cards in my phone case.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

      I use Apple Pay whenever I go shopping .. it helps that currently there are incentives like 5% cash back from some card providers.

      According to the phone's receipt list, places where I've used Apple Pay over the last two months include Tesco, Morrisons, McDonalds, Greggs, ALDI, Home Bargains, Co-op, The Works, Kenilworth Castle, B&M Bargains and LIDL. And in cities I have used it in Costa and Pret-a-manger.

      I have 2 cards currently loaded and hardly ever need to use cash (I have an emergency £5 stuck on the fridge).

      Apple Pay 'just works' and I've found it faster than even using the credit cards native pay-by-bonk process.

      I'm not convinced about sending money via mobile numbers though.

      Oh and I'm a Cybersecurity Architect and Engineer by profession for the last 20 years, who specialises in PKI and encryption.

    6. Chz

      Re: Who the hell is using them daily?

      Based on the wording of it, they're lumping payments made *ON* mobile phones together with payments made *BY* mobile phones.

      I pay my council tax and CC bills with my mobile banking app, so I would count as a mobile payment user. This is despite the fact that I have NFC, have AndroidPay installed, and used it all of once just to see if it worked. I think tap to pay has rendered NFC-equipped mobile payments pretty much obsolete before it got off the ground. (Outside the USA, at least)

  2. Marco van de Voort

    contactless with card

    Here in the NL the last two years doing small payments (up to Eur 20) with contactless "swiping" of the (Mastercard Maestro) debitcard has become popular. Most supermarkets have already converted, and small retailers are halfway.

    Works fine, if you do it too often (my guess is over about Eur 50 a day), terminal will ask pin as in a normal pay-with-pin solution, but it could be that the limits are bank dependent.

    Frankly, I don't think I have ever seen sb pay with a phone around here.

  3. Arctic fox
    Mushroom

    I do not care it this makes me a boring old fart or some kind of luddite......

    ............there is no chance in hell that I am giving my phone access to my bank. Regardless of the protestations of the usual suspects that secure systems are in place. It is just yet another attack vector for the various toss-bags out there who want to part us from out hard-earned. I am not suggesting that our banking should revolve around storing banknotes under our mattresses but there are limits. At least for this example of the Canidae.

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: I do not care it this makes me a boring old fart or some kind of luddite......

      Especially as some of the android pay options don't run on a rooted phone, yet rooting is what allows you full control over phone and ability to remove unwanted pre installed crud that a normal user is not allowed to remove.

      As an aside, when paying for my train ticket (by cash) today I was served by a particularly handsome train station staff person, would have liked a pay by bonk option there ;-)

    2. Alister

      Re: I do not care it this makes me a boring old fart or some kind of luddite......

      I'm afraid I too am a luddite, I have no pay-by-bonk type cards, they are all chip-and-pin, and I will not, ever, entertain the idea of any sort of banking app on my phone until absolutely forced to because no other method is left.

  4. Jay 2

    Somewhat ironically both my main plastic providers (one for me, one joint for the house) didn't seem to want to provide cards that do pay-by-bonk. In the past I haven't minded using it to pay for lunch, which is usually <=£5. I draw the line at getting my phone out to pay for something though!

  5. OliP

    im on my first few weeks of using android pay, as natwest really dragged their heals on implementation. I find its slowest on the rail network. Its failed once so far, but i got a free train ride out of it - and the ticket inspectors so far have had no idea how to check if i have a ticket or not - so im quids in.

    I find it really hit and miss as to knowing if it'll work or not though - there is next to no advertising at the point of sale to say its supported, but often it works fine.

    a complete clusterfuck of a roll out considering my S3 had the tech to support this, but my S7 is the first where it actually worked. Mostly down to my bank though. Luddites.

  6. inmypjs Silver badge

    "pay by bonk"

    Where does this report say anything about bonking?

    "In the UK, over two-fifths (43 per cent) purchase high-value items such as holidays and electronics on a mobile device".

    WTF does that mean - they booked a holiday while browsing a web site on their phone? They made an online payment on their bank's web site using a phone? They made an online payment using their bank's phone app?

    Personally I will never give google a link to a definite identity (like a credit card number) for them to associate with all the other personal information I can't stop them collecting.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "pay by bonk"

      I agree - I don't believe for a second that 43% of Brits are using NFC mobile phone payments regularly. I've seen plenty of people (myself included) making contactless card payments, but never a phone. Either this "online survey" was addressing all forms of payment that happened to involve a mobile, or it was a self-selecting group of Apple/Android Pay Monthly fanbois who also happen to live in London and use the Tube.

  7. Richard Jones 1
    WTF?

    Trying to Find a Point

    I do not use the underground and avoid London like one would a plague pit.

    I try to follow what I assume to be the RMT advice namely;

    Your better off by far if you can get where you are going by car.

    In any case most places I go to are nowhere near any sort of station, many are miles from a bus stop.

    However, tomorrow I will use 'flash and dash', flash the bus pass and dash on the bus to a hospital. Then I shall hope to repeat the process in the reverse direction until I can drive again.

    To get the phone out of its inside pocket is hard work whereas extracting a card is optimised for my easy access.

    Oh and the phone only does exactly what I need. No flashy, hand held hardware, as I don't have three or more hands .I really don't want the phone handy for every two bit work dodger to steal. So please remind me, is there a point to wave your money goodbye technology and if so, why I should go to the inconvenience of something that is harder work and has generally poor battery life?

  8. This post has been deleted by its author

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Card security

    Is an absolute joke, nay a myth.

    I've had a number of fraudulent attempts made on my cards despite taking the utmost care with security myself. I can only assume that the problems lies either with irresponsible / unscrupulous vendors or that the card system itself is a shambles.

    The more likely is the latter as card details held by a vendor (card number, exp date, security digits) can be leaked / sold or just re-used, there is nothing to differentiate one from another (kinda like holding your wallet open with your back turned).

    I won't use contactless (cos it's shite) and I now won't use card details (I've been covered by previous attempted frauds by the card issuer, but at the end of the day it is at their discretion).

    The problem is that what makes payment transactions faster and easier also does exactly the same for fraudsters. As a result a card which was changed following attempted fraud has now sat locked away as the issuer refuses to issue a card without contactless tech.

    Even without contactless bobbins card payments are still ripe for fraud!

    So now companies that deal with me have the following options when looking for new business:

    Accept Paypal (cos my Paypal account never has a penny in it unless I'm buying something at that moment).

    Accept a current account bill payment / transfer.

    Accept a chq (you remember those auld antwacky things)

    Accept cash

    Failing all the above, Accept that we're not going to do business.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Holidays and electronics"

    How the heck can you 'pay by bonk' for a holiday? It sounds like the survey was conflating use of a mobile device to PAY with using a mobile device to ORDER goods and services. The number doing the former is going to be lower than those doing the latter - and I'm pretty sure you have to do the latter to purchase a holiday!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Holidays and electronics"

      @DougS

      It's rather easy to use your telephone to pay for a holiday.

      Go into travel agent. Sort your holiday out, then bonk the payment terminal with your phone.

      There does not seem to be a £30 limit. Or at least there isn"t when using Natwest and Apple Pay.

      Cheers... Ish

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Holidays and electronics"

        There does not seem to be a £30 limit. Or at least there isn"t when using Natwest and Apple Pay.

        Scarily, you're (almost) right. It's up to the merchant to set the limit they accept using Apple Pay - NatWest don't impose a limit. Most merchants use the standard contactless £30 limit, but there's nothing to stoo a travel agent, say, accepting payments for thousands.

        1. Martin 47

          Re: "Holidays and electronics"

          but there's nothing to stoo a travel agent, say, accepting payments for thousands.

          .........except it's never going to bloody well happen with my phone

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Holidays and electronics"

        Travel agent?

        I guess you still have those in the UK? They're pretty much extinct in the US.

  11. StillGridlocked

    This just increases the attack surface to get at your money regardless of any possible convenience.

  12. brassedoff

    Security?

    I'm pretty certain my phone needs to be unlocked before I can use Android Pay. That alone makes it more secure than my card.

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