A tweak to Microsoft's Outlook.com cloud service has blocked a good number of people from accessing their messages. Specifically, the baffling and unannounced change affects Outlook.com users with connected accounts: these are email accounts hosted on third-party servers (such as a company's private server or an ISP's mail …

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Thursday 6th October 2016 21:01 GMT tirk

WTF?

Based on the last few years performance, I can only imagine there's a betting pool amongst the thousands of MS employee stock millionaires for who can finally piss off the customers so much they actually finally go somewhere else...

No joke icon, because I really can't come up with any different explanation.

26 0 Reply
Thursday 6th October 2016 21:20 GMT hplasm

Footgun-

rapid fire!

11 1 Reply
1. Thursday 6th October 2016 21:29 GMT Gray
  
  Re: Footgun-
  
  Wasn't Outlook the "killer app" that discouraged users from migrating to alternative systems? And the MS genius elite are now applying their "experience enhancement" magic there, too? Just another "drill holes in the bottom of the boat to let the bilge water out" thinking that exemplifies MS these days.
  
  33 1 Reply
Thursday 6th October 2016 21:30 GMT Ken Moorhouse

"hosted on third-party servers"

There's the problem.

MS want you to move your mailbox to their cloud.

They do not seem to understand or believe that there is any alternative option that users would consider.

23 0 Reply
1. Thursday 6th October 2016 21:57 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: "hosted on third-party servers"
  
  They do not seem to understand or believe that there is any alternative option that users would consider.
  
  It's more not allowing users to have any other option, which is not a new expression of the sort of corporate arrogance these people are afflicted with. For me they can't fail quickly enough, but they built a fairly large Titanic with the tax they extracted over the years from computer users, which means it'll take some time to sink properly. It's listing already, but not enough for ~~the rats~~ management and shareholders to bail yet
  
  22 0 Reply
  1. Friday 7th October 2016 11:54 GMT Lee D
    
    Re: "hosted on third-party servers"
    
    Think, though.
    
    Those customers DO STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR DATA. Their thinking was correct.
    
    What they don't have is access via Outlook.com, but they still hold their own data.
    
    This is why I have no objection to "cloud services" so long as they aren't holding my data or capable of holding it to ransom.
    
    Whether they have SERVICE or not is another question entirely. But I'd be an idiot if I rolled out something like this without another way to access mailboxes, send and receive email etc.
    
    Backup MX records? In-house webmail? These things should be available.
    
    And then you question why, for instance, you're paying for an online service that - if it turns off - you run your services. And when it turns on, it's reliant on your services running. It's like hiring a chauffeur for yourself that drives your car. If he's absent, you still carry on as normal. But he can't work without your car. If the car's not working, neither of you can drive.
    
    Why you'd want that - except as a way to throw away money for the sake of looks - I can't fathom.
    
    I work in schools. They want us to move to cloud-based MIS services. But all the MIS providers allow you to run the "cloud service" from your in-house servers. Mainly because IT throw a fit if you suggest that ONLY the MIS provider holds your critical data and you have to pay to get it back out from them, and you're reliant on them working perfectly to do simple things like take attendance registers (legally required).
    
    So we actually have an "MIS Online" which is an online interface to the traditional SQL database for the MIS. And you can have that hosted by the provider, or hosted by yourself. So you end up in the silly situation of having "MIS Online" being a local service that you're hosting yourself, with your data also hosted in-house.
    
    Why would you pay the MIS provider to host AN INTERFACE to your data that requires to connect back through your firewall to get to your actual data that you're hosting in-house anyway? It's just daft.
    
    6 1 Reply
    1. Friday 7th October 2016 12:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: "hosted on third-party servers"
      
      You are part of DETE in Qld, AICM5P
      
      I was close to that, very. It changed me *L*
      
      0 0 Reply
Thursday 6th October 2016 21:36 GMT Frank N. Stein

Leaky boat

Another example of why Cloud Dependency is more about making the Cloud Vendors rich. Not much else.

28 0 Reply
Thursday 6th October 2016 21:58 GMT analyzer

Naughty El Reg

Have you been nasty to Microsoft again!?

"The Register has asked Microsoft about the issue, but after a day of waiting, we too have been left in the dark by Redmond."

13 0 Reply
1. Friday 7th October 2016 07:25 GMT Adam 1
  
  Re: Naughty El Reg
  
  Maybe Barbra Streisand can email Satya for you?
  
  6 0 Reply
  1. Friday 7th October 2016 08:37 GMT Chris Jasper
    
    Re: Naughty El Reg
    
    I think a mail to Santa would be more successful
    
    7 0 Reply
2. Friday 7th October 2016 08:48 GMT VinceH
  
  Re: Naughty El Reg
  
  "Have you been nasty to Microsoft again!?"
  
  No, that's just another of the ways Microsoft are trying to channel Apple.
  
  4 0 Reply
3. Friday 7th October 2016 09:09 GMT allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
  
  Re: Naughty El Reg
  
  Did they phone them? Or did they send an email?
  
  2 0 Reply
4. Friday 7th October 2016 09:44 GMT BobChip
  
  Re: Naughty El Reg
  
  There's a worrying implication here that M$ might actually have been listening...... Realistically though, lets just put it down to incompetence as usual.
  
  2 1 Reply
Thursday 6th October 2016 22:11 GMT Terry 6

MS haters

There will probably lots of MS hating in these comments.

In reality, it's not anything special about MS, they're all prone to this sort of cock-up and sharp practice. Not defending MS. Just pointing out that attacking them as if they were qualitatively any different from all the others is just rather pointless. Though I do think that MS seem to have a genius when it comes to corporate foot shooting.

6 13 Reply
1. Thursday 6th October 2016 22:49 GMT ma1010
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  Well, there are a lot of crap companies out there; nobody can dispute that. However, MS has recently been proactive in finding new ways to piss off their customers. The Win 8 debacle followed by the Win X worse debacle and the total arrogance now displayed in almost everything they do demonstrates this. Most crap companies will apologize (albeit insincerely) when they cock up, but, as the title of this story says, MS doesn't even bother.
  
  They're like a puppy that craps in your lap, then expects to be petted for it, but without the excuse of not knowing any better. They know exactly what they're doing. It's difficult to see why any sane business would want to behave like this, but the facts are hard to dispute. (Maybe Satya is selling MS short?)
  
  Paris because I'm confused as to why a company built on delivering products people actually wanted to use is behaving like MS does these days.
  
  23 1 Reply
  1. Friday 7th October 2016 10:50 GMT Terry 6
    
    Re: MS haters
    
    ma1010
    
    Well, I can't argue with that. Kneejerk MS haters notwithstanding, Microsoft do seem to be doing their best to live down to the expectations of the haters, and bring plenty of new members into that fold.
    
    It's not that they do it once, a la exploding Samsungs, but that seem to do it with tedious regularity.
    
    I could understand the deliberate, cynical, concealed, sneaky, underhand, beancounter and marketing driven dodginess that the likes of Apple etc use far more than how this lot seem to be able to perpetrate these completely obvious customer unfriendly incompetent actions on an almost weekly basis. As if there was some Google/Apple 5th columnist squad infiltrating into their upper management.
    
    3 1 Reply
    1. Friday 7th October 2016 11:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: MS haters
      
      I could understand the deliberate, cynical, concealed, sneaky, underhand, beancounter and marketing driven dodginess that the likes of Apple etc use far more than how this lot seem to be able to perpetrate these completely obvious customer unfriendly incompetent actions on an almost weekly basis.
      
      You know, you cannot be but very young. If you were old enough you'd realise that you've just summarised Microsoft over its existence. Its stifling of competition by offering a comparative product for free, it's straight out stealing of Intellectual Property after a collaboration "fell through", its deliberate rigging of product to make a competing product appear flawed, its absolute disdain for any applicable law - I could go on for a bit.
      
      This is why older IT people instantly recognise Google too for what it really is: same behaviour, same disdain for law, same treatment of users as sheep only good for milking, same corporate lack of ethics, same marketing to make black appear white, same lobbying to avoid consequences, the works.
      
      11 1 Reply
      1. Friday 7th October 2016 11:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Re: IT people instantly recognise Google too for what it really is
        
        but really, it's not about Google, or MS or Apple, it's just a normal, erm... regular behaviour. Perhaps it goes with size and the feeling of self-importance, the bigger you become the bigger jerk you become.
        
        0 0 Reply
        
        Friday 7th October 2016 14:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Re: IT people instantly recognise Google too for what it really is
        
        Perhaps it goes with size and the feeling of self-importance, the bigger you become the bigger jerk you become.
        
        Ah, you mean the Zuckerberg Syndrome. Got ya.
        
        0 0 Reply
  2. Friday 7th October 2016 11:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: They're like a puppy that craps in your lap
    
    more like a bull terrier that craps on your shoe and gives you the "try me" looks...
    
    2 0 Reply
  3. Friday 7th October 2016 11:46 GMT Hans 1
    
    Re: MS haters
    
    >Paris because I'm confused as to why a company built on delivering products people actually wanted to use is behaving like MS does these days.
    
    No, FFS, they have imposed their software on the masses SINCE DAY 1. First via IBM, when they had that, they started adding software to their stack, making competitors software on their system crash, simply not run, or worse, throw BOGUS errors when a competitor's software was DETECTED. (These are FACTS, UN-DENIABLE FACTS)
    
    Please , cut the crap, MS are evil, the most EVIL malware purveyor on this planet.
    
    Why ANYBODY trusts them is beyond me ... would you leave your 3 year old child with a pedophile serial killer ?
    
    MS, not trusted by me since 1982 (and I was too young before that year to understand what the brand on the box of floppies was).
    
    4 1 Reply
    1. Friday 7th October 2016 11:58 GMT Hans 1
      
      Re: MS haters
      
      > would you leave your 3 year old child with a pedophile serial killer ?
      
      I forgot the word "convicted", sorry: again:
      
      would you leave your 3 year old child with a convicted pedophile serial killer ?
      
      0 1 Reply
    2. Friday 7th October 2016 17:49 GMT ma1010
      
      Re: MS haters
      
      But there IS a difference nowadays. Originally, MS was poison only to business partners or other software companies they ripped off. That's normal cutthroat business. But during the late 80's and the 90's when MS came to own the desktop, they were devoted to making software that people WANTED to use. MS Windows and Office were truly great products when they came out and as they improved through the 90's.
      
      Under Ballmer, MS seemed to stall ending with the Win 8 debacle because of Sinofsky's inability to understand that desktop != phone. Under Nadella, they seem to be actively hostile to their customers, truly going out of their way to piss people off. That takes real arrogance.
      
      4 1 Reply
2. Thursday 6th October 2016 23:10 GMT Doctor Syntax
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  "Not defending MS. Just pointing out that attacking them as if they were qualitatively any different from all the others is just rather pointless."
  
  I'm struggling to follow this line of thinking. A MS service let's users down. Are you saying El Reg should write it up as if it was Google, Apple, Facebook or Amazon? Maybe they should ask Salesforce what went wrong with Outlook? Or ask Twitter when they're going to fix it? OK, they could take a swipe at Oracle in passing, I don't mind that because Oracle, but really this is an MS issue so it's MS that gets written about.
  
  12 2 Reply
  1. Thursday 6th October 2016 23:29 GMT d3vy
    
    Re: MS haters
    
    Dr syntax,
    
    Exactly, it's not Microsoft's fault (well it is) but your quite right, it could hapoen to anyone. Thats why we will (when they restore service) continue to use outlook.com, it's been doing its job perfectly for over a year. If anything at least MS will learn from this and it won't happen again *
    
    * Of course, if it does happen again then it probably will be time to just!p ship. At least it's just the front end to our mail server and all of the mails are still under our control so moving will be easy!
    
    0 8 Reply
    1. Friday 7th October 2016 09:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: MS haters
      
      Exactly, it's not Microsoft's fault (well it is) but your quite right, it could hapoen to anyone. Thats why we will (when they restore service) continue to use outlook.com, it's been doing its job perfectly for over a year. If anything at least MS will learn from this and it won't happen again *
      
      You must be very new to IT and Microsoft, so I'm not sure to downvote you for breathtaking naïvety or upvote you for sarcasm...
      
      13 0 Reply
      1. Friday 7th October 2016 09:57 GMT d3vy
        
        Re: MS haters
        
        "You must be very new to IT and Microsoft, so I'm not sure to downvote you for breathtaking naïvety or upvote you for sarcasm..."
        
        Not at all, my point was that mistakes do happen, Similar issues could happen to anyone, we have been using outlook for a few years now and this is the first major issue we have had so will give them the benefit of the doubt, if however it happens again we will of course look to move to another provider who is willing to learn from their mistakes.
        
        0 10 Reply
        
        Saturday 8th October 2016 20:54 GMT oldcoder
        
        Re: MS haters
        
        Ummm....
        
        Isn't this about the 10th time MS has made such mistakes? Roughly every year? Last one I recall was last spring.. The one before about two years ago, and another "cloud error" that took out Azure... and Office 365... and Outlook?
        
        On top of all that, the inability to issue patches without damaging customer systems... every couple of months?
        
        So how many times are you going to "give them the benefit of the doubt" before you actually do something to correct your problem?
        
        0 0 Reply
        
        Sunday 9th October 2016 10:09 GMT Terry 6
        
        Re: MS haters
        
        I'm with ma1010 on this one. And if you bundle together all the things they do it's more than every year. It's constant. Every time they make a change it's to remove functionality that users need, or screw up what they've left.
        
        It really started, for me, with the Ribbon. Incredible complexity dressed up as simplification. The removal, return and screwing up of the Start menu follows the same path. In both cases it's a matter of throwing everything in that they think you ought to want, whether the users do actually want it or not, and remove from them the option to say differently and make things usable in their own environment.
        
        0 0 Reply
3. Thursday 6th October 2016 23:24 GMT Destroy All Monsters
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  There will probably lots of MS hating in these comments.
  
  Not at all. We will just hang around this campfire-in-a-barrel, sing and play the balalaika.
  
  14 0 Reply
  1. Friday 7th October 2016 18:55 GMT cd
    
    Re: MS haters
    
    Someone's email's blocked, kumba-yah...
    
    2 0 Reply
4. Thursday 6th October 2016 23:25 GMT a_yank_lurker
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  With Slurp telling the truth looks like hate because their antics are so incredibly stupid and brazen.
  
  4 3 Reply
5. Friday 7th October 2016 05:55 GMT MrDamage
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  > "There will probably lots of MS hating in these comments."
  
  If you've ever had to support their flaccidware, you'd hate them too.
  
  13 0 Reply
6. Friday 7th October 2016 10:45 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  Got to ask yourself a basic question about that statement which is: Microsoft for decades had the desktop OS market pretty much to itself and people will pretty much generally stick with what they know through laziness and familiarity even though they may grumble a little occasionally about a few minor problems here and there. If Microsoft actually was just bothered enough to learn from it's mistakes (value it's users) then it would in all probability have kept that huge user base (probably around (99% of all users at one time), it would have had people such as myself taking the plunge and deserting them to go to another OS. It wouldn't have people such as myself who do not have a good word for them (well I actually have quite a few but none are usable in public).
  
  I can't see that it is something vindictive about me as a person that I hate so much. In other areas of life their are manufacturers and products that I have stuck by for decades (getting older now) I realise that product / service providers may make mistakes or try something that isn't right, but that when they do this they grow as an organisation in learning what isn't right and what works for their customers and as a result your faith in that product / service strengthens.
  
  What MS have done is ignored or just not had as a priority at all what their customers needs are and have focussed purely on their own commercial needs which is why people have left not just because it doesn't serve their needs but also because it insults them them to be treated like cattle.
  
  IF (a big IF) MS had behaved properly and had put their users first then in all probability they would have retained most of that 99% domination because it takes more than being annoyed once for most users to abandon a product / service (again human nature because we are lazy and complacent), it's only when your gripes and complaints develop into a constant flow (or the complaints are monumentally huge) that we bother to think about looking elsewhere.
  
  What MS have done to themselves isn't the result of a few mistakes here and there ( I expect mistakes, mistakes are actually a really good thing providing you learn from them). NO what MS have done comes under ARROGANCE as they make the same mistakes again and again and will continue to do so as MS appear to believe that they are too big to fail.
  
  Someone else mentioned the titanic in an earlier post and I think that it a very apt comparison.
  
  5 1 Reply
7. Friday 7th October 2016 11:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: MS haters
  
  it's SO UNFAIR, you know! We hate them ALL with equal passion!
  
  2 0 Reply
Thursday 6th October 2016 22:36 GMT Chris G

Foot? How about back of the head?

I have a standard freebie Outlook that I use for most things, since the 'New, Lively, Improved Outlook last week I have lost my connection to a business email account. In addition,outlook in general has now achieved a new low in crawl speed, an ugly page format and yet another fix for something that wasn't broken, all without asking if I wanted a change.

Yes , I know it's kind of free but good manners are too.

15 0 Reply
This post has been deleted by its author
Friday 7th October 2016 00:23 GMT P. Lee

Microsoft does email badly?

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

We're a long way from the days of 50 users per exchange server, but complexity is still the enemy of reliability.

A UI tweak fouls up email access? In the old days, we'd just go back to using our previous imap client. With proprietary cloud applications, you're out of luck. This is why we have architectural layers, not a humoungous vertically integrated do-all applications.

Keep the protocols simple, keep the data formats simple, keep the architectural layers separate. Optimisation creates fragility. Are ya listening, HTTP/2 and systemd? Its nice that your software can do hyperscale, but who does that benefit? Proprietary hyperscale vendors. Who loses? Almost everyone else, especially those who want to do things themselves, test, observe and understand what is going on. Really, I don't need a binary database for log files - text files with well known field formats are fine. You're welcome to slurp them if you want, but leave the raw data where it is. A string of greps may be clumsy but its actually more appropriate to be able to look at context than pick particular database records. What's the point of /var/log/messages - event analysis or big data trend analysis?

Corporates are creating their own tech priesthoods by making everything too complicated to understand, too vertically integrated to swap out any component. There is a consolidation fetish and its dangerous. Keep the UI and data separate. You can roll out a new UI without removing the old one. Basic software design principles and testing procedures seem to go out the window in the quest for webscale capabilities.

I don't need your stinkin' interface, or even you very nice pretty interface. I just want my data. If I was told a UI tweak took out my access to email, I'd be seriously unimpressed. It isn't just the inconvenience of outage, its the unimpressiveness of design and management of the rollout.

19 1 Reply
1. Friday 7th October 2016 14:29 GMT CrazyOldCatMan
  
  Re: Microsoft does email badly?
  
  > but complexity is still the enemy of reliability.
  
  Especially when established protocols are ignored[1]..
  
  [1] I still remember (with some bitterness) the Exchange 5.5 ESMTP debacle. To summarise - Exchange 5.5 would respond to an EHLO with the indication that it supported ESMTP. It didn't. So when a system that did (Solaris in my case - I was herding them at the time) tried to use ESMTP it would silently hang or, in some situations, silently discard the email(s) involved. Thus was my life-long hatred of Exchange started.
  
  2 0 Reply
Friday 7th October 2016 01:26 GMT Anonymous Coward

I found a victim of this very issue...

I tried to send an email to one of the editors over on ARS Technica just a few minutes ago. The email got bounced by "PostMaster" with the reason that the Exchange server supposedly couldn't find the user in question. Really? So the link on the page of their article that links to their email is faulty? Maybe that editor no longer works there, even though they posted the story less than an hour ago? Or perhaps it's made clear in the "Admin Notes" near the bottom of the reply - that the Outlook.com Exchange server has shit itself & can't find *ANYBODY'S* email account over at Ars? Hmmm... that might be it!

I knew Outlook.com was a pile of shit back in the beginning & warned family & friends not to use it. Some of them ignored me & promptly started bitching about all the troubles they've had trying to use it. Now they can't even email me to complain, & it looks like corporations using Outlook.com are regretting the choice. Oh well, not like we didn't warn them it was A Bad Idea(tm).

9 3 Reply
1. Friday 7th October 2016 07:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
  
  "I tried to send an email to one of the editors over on ARS Technica just a few minutes ago. The email got bounced by "PostMaster" with the reason that the Exchange server supposedly couldn't find the user in question"
  
  I've had mail bounce in the past which was sent to an auditor at Microsoft.com, so they can't even run that properly.
  
  Since we're running Groupwise (on Linux) ourselves, naturally I had to rub that in.
  
  7 0 Reply
2. Friday 7th October 2016 09:59 GMT d3vy
  
  Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
  
  Thats not the same issue (Though it could be related)
  
  The issue occurs when you have a third party mail server which is responsible for IMAP/POP/SMTP for your domain but use outlook.com as a client to access that server. In this instance the mail is getting through to the server no problem but outlook is screwing up when trying to retrieve it/send via the third party SMTP server.
  
  0 0 Reply
  1. Saturday 8th October 2016 21:00 GMT oldcoder
    
    Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
    
    I suppose that means Microsoft is again using their substandard nonstandard protocols to lock out customers...
    
    again.
    
    0 0 Reply
3. Friday 7th October 2016 10:57 GMT Terry 6
  
  Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
  
  Outlook for the individual/small user has one significant advantage. It integrates and synchronises email, calendar and (rather poorly) contacts. The calendar bit is the killer. Having and editing your appointments on a tablet, PC and phone as required.
  
  2 0 Reply
  1. Friday 7th October 2016 11:48 GMT d3vy
    
    Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
    
    "Outlook for the individual/small user has one significant advantage. It integrates and synchronises email, calendar and (rather poorly) contacts. The calendar bit is the killer. Having and editing your appointments on a tablet, PC and phone as required."
    
    Our use case exactly.
    
    One account with a shared calendar and x accounts that can access it, everyone gets their mail through the web interface and can see the staff calendar from their Phone/PC/Tablet etc Sure, we could BUY something that does this but outlook does an adequate job for free.
    
    We could also use open source, but then we have to host it... again outlook does this for free.
    
    1 0 Reply
  2. Saturday 8th October 2016 07:20 GMT Pompous Git
    
    Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
    
    Outlook for the individual/small user has one significant advantage. It integrates and synchronises email, calendar and (rather poorly) contacts.
    
    You can do that on Linux too. It's called GMail. Unlike MS, Google can be trusted implicitly with one's personal data and being in the cloud it's perfectly safe from third parties...
    
    1 1 Reply
4. Friday 7th October 2016 11:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
  
  I tried to send an email to one of the editors over on ARS Technica just a few minutes ago. The email got bounced by "PostMaster" with the reason that the Exchange server supposedly couldn't find the user in question.
  
  Well serves you right for emailing the competition :). That said, you won't be able to reach The Register if Gmail screws up again - take your pick..
  
  :)
  
  0 1 Reply
  1. Friday 7th October 2016 12:03 GMT Hans 1
    
    Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
    
    >That said, you won't be able to reach The Register if Gmail screws up again - take your pick..
    
    Lol, gmail outage ? what was the last, like, 44 minutes ? Here, we are talking DAYS, if not a WEEK!
    
    1 1 Reply
5. Saturday 8th October 2016 06:01 GMT Pompous Git
  
  Re: I found a victim of this very issue...
  
  I knew Outlook.com was a pile of shit back in the beginning & warned family & friends not to use it. Some of them ignored me & promptly started bitching about all the troubles they've had trying to use it. Now they can't even email me to complain,
  
  It's not all bad news then :-)
  
  0 0 Reply