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Microsoft deletes Windows 10 nagware from Windows 7 and 8

Now lets hope...

It deletes the right nagware, and not something else. Because I can imagine it already: "Ok, so now that Win7/Win8 users can no longer upgrade to Windows 10 I guess they won't be needing that update option anymore either...".

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LDS
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Re: Now lets hope...

I hope it only deletes, and doesn't install some telemetry also for those who didn't like the W10 one...

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Re: Now lets hope...

The Windows 10 telemetry feature was forced into Windows 7 & 8 months ago.

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Re: Now lets hope...

"The Windows 10 telemetry feature was forced into Windows 7 & 8 months ago."

Only if you let it be installed in Windows 7, 8.

If you don't want it on your Windows 7, 8, then uninstall it.

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Re: Now lets hope...

>If you don't want it on your Windows 7, 8, then uninstall it.

Yeah have fun keeping track of all the KBs on that. And if you don't think eventually vital security updates will depend on having them then you haven't been following Redmond lately.

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Anyone care to guess how long it will be before an 'update' (shouldn't that be 'downdate'?) reinstalls the nagware albeit in a slightly different form?

I'm going with before the end of the month

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Childcatcher

I'll put a tenner on "early December" please. Reckon the bastards will attempt to slip it in among (and misrepresented as) seasonal gift giving.

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Elf
Meh

No bet. Here's my wallet. Leave me a fiver and my ID so I can get a beer on the way home.

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Pint

Much obliged.

Bottoms up!

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They give more than you found

I find Microsoft's refusal to publish useful update information annoying and deeply suspcious. However for the rollup update patch they do give information behind the first link in the knowledgebase article.

September's rollup update (3185278) includes these updates:

"This update includes quality improvements. No new operating system features are being introduced in this update. Key changes include:

Improved support for the Disk Cleanup tool to free up space by removing older Windows Updates after they are superseded by newer updates.

Improved compatibility of certain software applications.

Removed the Copy Protection option when ripping CDs in Windows Media Audio (WMA) format from Windows Media Player.

Addressed issue that causes mmc.exe to consume 100% of the CPU on one processor when trying to close the Exchange 2010 Exchange Management Console (EMC), after installing KB3125574.

Addressed issue that causes the Generic Commands (GC) to fail upon attempting to install KB2919469 or KB2970228 on a device that already has KB3125574 installed."

I prefer this to having 6 updates. Of course there might be 'more' updates included within the pack they aren't talking about...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: They give more than you found

> Removed the Copy Protection option when ripping CDs in Windows Media Audio (WMA) format from Windows Media Player.

The cynical side of me now assumes that the behaviour of Windows Media Player is now to rip with copy protection and the option to disable this behaviour has been removed?

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Too little, too late

Thanks to Microsoft's pushiness with Windows 10, the only machines facing the internet in my home and at the office now are all running Linux Mint with Pale Moon, Thunderbird and Libre Office. Only the design-room machines are still running Windows 7, and none of those are internet-facing any longer.

It's become our office pastime lately to open with impunity the malicious attachments on the spam emails we get, just for the fun of watching the Cryptolocker payload fall flat on its face trying to run on a Linux box...

No, we don't miss Windows in our office, not one bit!

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Linux

Re: Too little, too late

As a penguinista, let me welcome you to our humble family.

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Re: Too little, too late

"just for the fun of watching the Cryptolocker payload fall flat on its face trying to run on a Linux box"

I would not laugh too hard in case they go cross platform. In any case if you really treat security as a priority then all of you obvious user-writeable areas (such as /tmp, /var/tmp and /home) should be mounted with at least the 'noexec' option to help defeat users accidentally double-clicking on something malicious. For that and other tips you could do worse than checking this out:

https://www.cesg.gov.uk/guidance/end-user-devices-security-guidance-ubuntu-1404-lts

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: our humble family.

Thanks for that!

The humility always shines through whenever the penguins are posting!

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Re: our humble family.

"The humility always shines through whenever the penguins are posting!"

Hmm, you're either one of those poor souls who have been nagged to death by Micro$oft, or one of those souls languishing in a fruity walled garden environment that requires you to pay £1,000+ for a new computer ever 2 years.

Do you need a hug? x

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Happy

Re: Hmm, you're either one of those poor souls...

See! Exactly the kind of humility I was talking about!

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Re: Too little, too late

"all of you obvious user-writeable areas (such as /tmp, /var/tmp and /home) should be mounted with at least the 'noexec' "

Already done. Full-disk encryption, noexec and admin application whitelisting are all in place. I'm still looking at what other measures can be taken so that link you provided is very helpful, thanks for that.

I'm sure that the goofing around with email attachments will stop once the novelty wears off. It's just that we in the office have spent so many years being paranoid about never opening attachments, never clicking on links in emails, constantly updating antivirus (and never being sure that said AV can even catch them all) and generally living in fear, that the safety and security of Linux feels strangely liberating. I've encouraged it because it eases the transition for the staff and and creates a sense of camaraderie and fun that helps them cope with the stresses of the changeover. In addition it helps me to locate and plug any potential security holes. But once things settle down properly be assured we'll be as vigilant to threats as we've always been.

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Re: our humble family.

fruity walled garden environment that requires you to pay £1,000+ for a new computer ever 2 years.

Hmm. My last Mac cost considerably less than £1,000, and I've had it for nearly four years now, so I know that you can't be talking about Apple. The Mac I purchased before that did cost more than £1,000, but it's been running for nearly six years now. I am planning to buy some 'new' Macs, to replace Windows-infested systems. Some of them may cost over £1,000. Most will be less. Hint: look up 'Mac mini'. Indeed, look up 'refurbished Mac mini from PowerMax'. You'll notice machines which can run the finest version of OS X, Snow Leopard, from before Apple went bonkers and started to make everything flat and grey and iOSified, and for prices ranging from $160 to $450 or so. Hell, no, I'm not buying new, iOSified, systems, any more than I'm buying new, Win 10-infested, systems.

Memo to Tim Cook: Cookie, ol' fruit, if I want to use an iPad I'll bloody well buy an iPad. Keep the iOS crap on iPads and iPhones and leave the Macs alone. And have someone sit on Jonny Ive, he's got way out of control.

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Re: Too little, too late

@Paul Crawford

upvoted for truth and providing a useful link... I wouldn't recommend anyone baits the virus's on any production machine no matter how safe they think they are... especially not if you've not read and UNDERSTOOD all of the link Paul provided and this one, even if its a bit old...

https://www.maketecheasier.com/secure-newly-installed-ubuntu/

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Re: Too little, too late

Can you imagine how fast the MS update servers would melt if they offered an optional 'upgrade' from Win10 to Win7..

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Re: Hmm, you're either one of those poor souls...

@Sabroni

I was pondering the idea of posting something like wot u dun (re: humility) but now I don't need to and can recline unmolested by those waddling penguins and their down votes and enjoy a glass of wine. Cheers!

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Anonymous Coward

It removes the Windows 10 Nagware

in return for installing other Malware in the same update that steals your soul.

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I'm so happy ....

.... that I made the effort to get the Win 10 update early this year and the Anniversary Edition update last week.

Every time I plug that SSD in and boot from it, I'm reminded of why I switched to Linux three years ago. (If you haven't worked your way through the Win 10 Anniversary Edition update process then you haven't died.)

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I didn't notice this patch in the September updates for my Windows 7 partition. Is this update out of band?

I did notice that the update to check compatibility with Windows 10 was still there though, so that still got 'hidden'. Thank god we're past all that nagging, at least for now.

On the BBC News website, they're reporting that Which? have condemned Windows 10: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37431343

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WTF?

Security is now optional, it seems

On my Windows 7 box KB3179930 - the rollup with the .NET stuff in it - has come up as an optional update, despite the description mentioning that it corrects security issues.

Whereas an update to correct time zone information in Novosibirsk is listed as important despite me being in the UK.

Go figure, I suppose.

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Anonymous Coward

.... update to correct time zone information in Novosibirsk is listed as important ...

Well, it is a lovely place. Great weather, lots of trees, wonderful fishing and hunting, and the people are quite nice (certainly much nicer than in Moscow). You should really drop by for a visit - and now, thanks to Microsoft, you won't miss your return flight on the way back home.

What's not to like?

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Happy

What's not to like?

Heh. Now you're being a little bit naughty, quoting most of my sentence but leaving off the bit at the end. I'm sure Novosibirsk is not only lovely, but also important, and you're a proper scamp for trying to make it look like I think otherwise!

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"On the BBC News website, they're reporting that Which? have condemned Windows 10: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37431343"

I liked the quote at the end: "On the whole, Windows 10 has been received well, and was a notable step up from the previous Windows 8, which did not go down well with many users." I'd call that damning with faint praise.

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Joke

re: condemned

Condemned by Amnesty International, too

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So Microsoft 'now issues adjustments to Windows “... either during our regular update releases on the second and fourth Tuesday of every month or whenever an unscheduled update is released.”'

Or "whenever the fuck they feel like it" in other words.

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> Or "whenever the fuck they feel like it" in other words.

More precisely, when they feel there is a need for it. Do you think Microsoft produces updates just to keep their programmers busy? Sheesh.

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Well, yes. How many times do they have to push out a new version of an update because the original one didn't work? You could count that happening on the fingers of one hand over years in the days when they had QA.

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Optional Upgrade?

KB3184143 is listed as an optional upgrade and not installed automatically, whereas the one that put GWX on was listed as an important upgrade and happened without consent or notification.

Getting rid of it should be the same level priority as the one that put it on.

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Terminator

Next month

a patch will "break" Win7/8, and you will be told the ONLY way to fix it is to buy and install Win10A.

Just a theory - honest

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Windows Update is unbelievably shit

Several of my machines have got themselves into a state where the updater can't do anything, while fully using an entire CPU core. Fixing it is a dark art. It's hard to believe how badly they fuck up something so simple, the whole thing must be built on a mesh of bad kludges.

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Facepalm

Re: how badly they fuck up something so simple

I mean, what could be easier than robustly updating 3 different operating systems on any PC configuration you can think of? Fucking Idiots!!!

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Gimp

Re: how badly they fuck up something so simple

"... robustly updating ..."

HAHAHAHAHA!!

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Re: how badly they fuck up something so simple

Right! I mean, this is MicroSoft we are talking about, the small software outfit run from Paul Allen's shed. It is not like they could afford, say 10,000 differently configured computers and a team of 100 people to test installation on all of them.

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Re: how badly they fuck up something so simple

Ironically the standard fix for this issue is to install an update...

You can manually download the individual update from MS however.

Tip: temporarily stop the windows update service before installing it or you have to compete with the locked up background update scanner.

http://superuser.com/questions/951960/windows-7-sp1-windows-update-stuck-checking-for-updates

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Re: how badly they fuck up something so simple

I don't doubt it's challenging, but none of my Linux machines have ever locked up when patching without so much as an error message.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows Update is unbelievably shit

"built on a mesh of bad kludges"

And that, right there, is the Windows 10 marketing slogan as brought to you by the "Truth in Advertising" people.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: how badly they fuck up something so simple

I mean, what could be easier than robustly updating 3 different operating systems on any PC configuration you can think of? Fucking Idiots!!!

You're right, it's really difficult… so difficult in fact that Debian have been doing it across 3 revisions simultaneously for i386, alpha, amd64, mips, mipsel, sparc, ppc, parisc, armel, armhf, m68k… most of those since the late 90s. i386 and amd64 being just as varied as you'd see on Windows including some that cannot run Windows (e.g. Cobalt Qube3/4). Gentoo have been supporting nearly as many, yours truly used to help out with their MIPS port.

Microsoft have been doing it for i386 and amd64. Pretty much all being descendants of the IBM PC compatible. Nowhere near as varied as what Debian supports. Historically they've supported MIPS, PowerPC, Alpha and a few others, but these days, i386 and amd64 are their main ports with some dabbling in ARM. They also have far more economic resources to throw at the problem, and they charge customers for their product.

So yes, I expect them to do better. Much better.

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Re: Windows Update is unbelievably shit

"Fixing it is a dark art."

When I had to do this some week ago it seemed to consist of finding various interweb postings saying apply KB$Number and then finding a chain of MS support pages saying KB$Number-you-were-looking-for has been replaced by KBAnother-number-to-look-for.

If it wasn't a dark art it was certainly an Adventure.

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Happy

Re: so difficult in fact that Debian have been doing it

I think the MS install base is a little larger than the Debian one, and also has less consumer users.

Get back to me in the year of the Linux desktop and we'll see whether they can maintain that under scale.

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Re: Windows Update is unbelievably shit

I'm waiting on 177 updates to install in Win7Pro on a dual-boot machine that was last updated roughly 3 years ago and has been running a screensaver in the other boot option since then because that's its purpose. Don't ask.

So what about KB3125574 bundle that's supposed to help? I downloaded and ran it, and hours later had to decide to leave it overnight as it kept looking over things. This morning, it said the update was not applicable to this system or something.

My only consolation is that it automatically finished checking for regular updates in the background and downloaded most of them in the meantime, so I've only been waiting just over an hour so far today.

insufferable nonsense...

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Gimp

Re: so difficult in fact that Debian have been doing it

"I think..."

Ah- MS also fail hard on servers; you were saying...

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Re: so difficult in fact that Debian have been doing it

"I think the MS install base is a little larger than the Debian one, and also has less consumer users."

The scale effect might come into play with download speeds and to some extent the speed of checking for updates. But as Stuart said, the installed base is very diverse: from the Raspberry Pi upwards to larger server installations. I think we can reasonably conclude that scale wouldn't shake out many if any hidden quality problems. And having installed updates on both Windows and Linux I know from experience that the latter are still faster even if you disregard the download speeds.

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