back to article Florida Man's prized jeep cremated by exploding Samsung Galaxy Note 7

Samsung's ill-fated Galaxy Note 7 is once again being blamed for causing a serious fire. A man in St Petersburg, Florida, claims that while charging inside his truck, the phablet combusted and caused a massive blaze that totalled his Jeep Grand Cherokee. Lydia Dornacher told Tampa Bay news station Fox 13 that she and her …

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  1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Always carry a fire extinguisher under the passenger seat

    Crap chargers, crap batteries, crap phones and other crap infotainment electronics. It is a small wonder that there are so few fires. I barely saved one of my cars after the stereo combusted and set the central console on fire. If it was just 20 seconds later the car would have been a write off. In this case, a new console off E-Bay, new switches, one hour of crimping and two days of cleaning resurrected it (for now).

    While doing it I noticed a few things - the fire retardants in the modern car ABS do not fire retard. The f*cking thing still burns. The fuses are not particularly effective either. They will not blow even if half of the console is on fire and both the stereo and the accessories are short provided that it is "fried electronics short", not a direct one.

    1. RIBrsiq

      Re: Always carry a fire extinguisher under the passenger seat

      Excellent idea. Indeed, having an extinguisher in the car at all times is a legal requirement, around these parts.

      But would not have helped in this specific case, as it sounds like the car was unattended at the time. Of course, it could be argued that leaving your expensive and combustible S7 to charge in an attended car is courting disaster in and of itself.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Always carry a fire extinguisher under the passenger seat

        Of course, it could be argued that leaving your expensive and combustible S7 to charge in an attended car is courting disaster in and of itself.

        Yes, I've been in places where that would have lasted all of 5 minutes before someone would have smashed in the window and taken it. Which, ironically, would have saved the car :).

    2. Jedit Silver badge
      Trollface

      "the fire retardants in the modern car ABS do not fire retard"

      The guy left an unattended device charging in his car despite there having been a product recall for that device because it sometimes catches fire when charging, also he's wearing a DON'T TREAD ON ME T-shirt. I think it's obvious that in this case the retardation had been removed from the vehicle, because he wasn't in it.

      1. Swarthy

        Re: "the fire retardants in the modern car ABS do not fire retard"

        Go easy on him... he's Florida Man.

      2. h4rm0ny

        Re: "the fire retardants in the modern car ABS do not fire retard"

        Because of course you're retarded if you don't spend your life online reading news sites that report on mobile phone recalls.

        Sheesh! Love the smell of elitism in the morning. :/

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "the fire retardants in the modern car ABS do not fire retard"

          Because of course you're retarded if you don't spend your life online reading news sites that report on mobile phone recalls.

          Sheesh! Love the smell of elitism in the morning. :/

          Still better than the smell of someone manhandling themselves in the morning..

          It was also in various printed newspapers. Remember those? Generally much better to start fires with than the electronic variety, with the exception of that Samsung Galaxy Note 7?

    3. Paul

      Re: Always carry a fire extinguisher under the passenger seat

      Whilst I agree that having a fire extinguisher is a good thing, I am fairly sure most extinguishers won't help against a Lithium fire.

  2. MatsSvensson

    I bet all this will be solved with the next generation magnesium-plutonium batteries.

  3. frank ly

    The windscreen glass melted

    Are car fires usually that hot?

    1. Rich 11

      Re: The windscreen glass melted

      Depends on the amount of lithium left in them.

    2. patrickstar

      Re: The windscreen glass melted

      No idea how hot car fires get, but car windows are not pure glass. They have a layer of glass sandwiched between plastic. So the molten stuff might very well be plastic while the shattered stuff is glass.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The windscreen glass melted

        Other way round: They're a layer of plastic sandwiched between to layers of glass.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The windscreen glass melted

          Why aren't car windshields made of some sort of transparent plastic? You would think that would cut down on cracked windshields... big glass runs Washington?

          1. Richard 12 Silver badge

            Re: The windscreen glass melted

            Plastic scratches easily and UV degrades quite quickly.

            The glass has coatings to reflect any the UV and is very hard to avoid scratches.

            The plastic then provides the extreme toughness to prevent easy cracking and ensure that the pane breaks "safely" in the event of a collision.

            Mixed materials are very often far better than any one material.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The windscreen glass melted

              "The plastic then provides the extreme toughness "

              It's more than that. Laminated construction means the inner and outer glass has some flexibility and, if they deflect, the plastic absorbs the relative deformation. It's a typical composite material; wood works the same way (rigid fibres in a more flexible matrix).

              You can get exactly the same effect on a phone with a glass screen protector, which has a layer of plastic in contact with the actual screen. The result seems to be a lot tougher than the screen alone. I was once pushed hard enough into a stone pillar that my phone bruised a rib, yet the front of the phone - that came into contact with the corner of the pillar was undamaged.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The windscreen glass melted

        "They have a layer of glass sandwiched between plastic."

        Other way around, I believe - a layer of plastic sandwiched between glass.

    3. TWB

      Re: The windscreen glass melted

      @Are car fires usually that hot?

      Where I work, the building engineers use a figure of 1MW for 'each' car on fire in the basement car park (if such a thing were to happen) - they have this figure in mind when they consider the resilience of the building in relation to the services we provide - if we had to evacuate and how long it could sustain it etc.

      We do lots of different things for different people and do not have full DR for everything.

      1. JeffyPoooh
        Pint

        Re: The windscreen glass melted

        "...a figure of 1MW for 'each' car on fire in the basement..."

        Megawatt (MW) is a unit of Power.

        Without including a unit of Time, it doesn't communicate anything about Energy.

        If each exploding car emitted 1 MW, but for only 1 microsecond, such a short flash would have no significant effect on the building.

        Common sense tells us that a car on fire at max heat might burn for 20-30 minutes, smoldering much longer. About 500kW-hr, or about $50 worth of energy (YMMV). The engineers involved must include or assume such a unit of Time in their calculations. They'd have to, or else their calculations wouldn't work.

        I just thought it was worth mentioning, so everyone can be aware of the distinction between Power and Energy in this excellent example.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The windscreen glass melted

          The engineers involved must include or assume such a unit of Time in their calculations.

          That's true. But how quickly does the energy in the fuel tank get released if that is ruptured by the heat of a car fire? I'd guess (on the basis of no evidence at all) about four minutes unless the air gets used up. Say 500 kWh released in four minutes, that's a lot of MW in terms of power....

          And your 500 kWh would be the fuel in the tank, tyres and plastics would I suspect double that, although they'd take a bit longer to burn. So perhaps 1 MWh per car, and perhaps 8 MW peak power?

        2. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: The windscreen glass melted

          There are 10 kWh in a litre of petrol. My car has a 35 litre tank. Larger cars tend to have a 60-70 litre tank. That should give you some idea of the numbers involved.

    4. Will 28

      Re: The windscreen glass melted

      This is a totally uneducated guess, as I know nothing about windscreens, but it could be that it was damaged in putting out the fire. My experience of hot glass and cold water is that it tends to shatter. While the windscreen may be some composite rather than sheet glass, a jet of cold stuff fired into it may have had a similarly destructive effect.

    5. aregross

      Re: The windscreen glass melted

      "The windscreen glass melted

      Are car fires usually that hot?"

      A lot of vehicles now have a Magnesium support in the dash. If that starts-up it gets pretty hot, hence the melted glass windshield.

    6. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: The windscreen glass melted

      @Are car fires usually that hot?

      Personal experience :

      I was doing a consulting job for one of the larger French banks in Paris in the summer of 1997 (good times). It was lunch hour, the canteen was on the 3rd floor, I was sitting next to the window overlooking the street. Although the windows were soundproofed, I heard a collision. Curious, I looked outside.

      A small Renault 5 had ran into a street pole. The driver was trying to get out. I noticed the police sirens when three cars came careening in. They arrested the guy without trouble.

      That's when I noticed the gas dripping from the rear of the car. I don't know how long it had been dripping, but seconds after I noticed it, the gas caught fire (it was summer). As I watched, it took about three to four minutes before the fire appeared inside the car, but when it did, it took less than 90 seconds and the car was a raging inferno. Seats, tires, paint, everything was burning.

      In the middle of that inferno, I heard a big bang - the windshield had shattered and wanted people to know it.

      That's how hot a car fire can get.

      End of story ? The cops spread out as soon as they noticed the fire, making sure nobody got too close, but they didn't try to put it out. I didn't see anyone radio in, but the fire truck arrived in due time - after the car was reduced to a metal husk. In all the confusion, the perp had been taken away without my noticing.

      A most interesting lunch.

  4. wolfetone Silver badge

    It's widely known that Samsung have recalled the phone for this very reason. You all saw the photos of what would happen to the phone, and if it's serious enough for a recall to be made then it's serious enough to stop using the phone and give it to Samsung as soon as possible.

    But this guy continued to use it after the recall, then cried that it burnt his car out?

    1. RIBrsiq

      Exactly my thoughts, indeed.

      I wonder what the legal situation is, in this case. Are Samsung liable, even after a well-publicized recall?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Samsung is probably still liable, but this guy and his wife should really read more news and less car/tablet ads.

      2. OffBeatMammal

        In the US at least Samsung have not gone through the "official" recall process - http://www.consumerreports.org/smartphones/consumer-reports-samsung-should-officially-recall-galaxy-note7/ ... this means they're handling it themselves and that maybe opens them up to liability especially as retailers are still potentially selling ticking time bombs. I did see of one report where a Note7 has set fire to a hotel room and Samsung have agreed to pay for the damages (http://gizmodo.com/galaxy-note-7-explodes-in-hotel-room-and-causes-nearly-1786279887)

        Sad really... I was going to get one last weekend, but seeing the news I might hold off for a while...

        1. Tony Paulazzo

          I was going to get one last weekend, but seeing the news I might hold off for a while...

          Wait for the fire sale - this phone is dead in the water, should be able to pick up a refurb (replaced battery) for peanuts when this is all over.

          Mind you, am shocked they didn't send a message to every Note7 urging them to get a replacement immediately, wouldn't this open them up to lawsuits (esp. in the litigious US) - just heard about a child being burned, this is a PR disaster..

    2. Paul 25

      I only know because I read the reg

      and other specialist tech websites.

      The recall was only a couple of days ago.

      It seems perfectly reasonable to not know about a product recall. It's not as if it was on the front pages of the papers (that I've seen).

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: I only know because I read the reg

        @ Paul 25

        I understand, but in the UK at least it was on the news outlets. My girlfriend, who isn't interested in tech at all, even said "Oh my God did you hear about the exploding Samsung phones???". Suppose that'll be his argument, that he didn't know, and it'll be up to Samsung then to prove they did everything they could to promote the recall.

        1. kain preacher

          Re: I only know because I read the reg

          It made the news in the US. Pops asked me if I had that phone.

      2. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

        In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

        So, are you not seeing information about the recall in a territory where this phone is sold?

        Also, does the phone itself tell you? That seems technically feasible.

        Also, does it actually come with a car charger? The Apple fire and electrocution cases tend to be claimed as involving poor quality third-party charging equipment. So that could be what was the problem this time too.

        1. Darryl

          Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

          I thought I'd read that the cases had been narrowed down to either cheap USB 3.1 cables or cheap adapters to plug a micro USB charger into a USB 3.1 port?

          1. Down not across

            Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

            I thought I'd read that the cases had been narrowed down to either cheap USB 3.1 cables or cheap adapters to plug a micro USB charger into a USB 3.1 port?

            Would be daft to use cheap MicroUSB to USB-C adapter when the phone ships with Samsung adapter (which of course could be no better than some cheap one).

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

              Samsung was reported to have narrowed it down to the battery being used, though it is possible it might be vulneable only in combination with other stuff to do with USB-C or converters. Apparently the ones sold in China are fine, because they used a different battery.

              I wonder who made the battery in the Chinese ones, and who made the battery in the rest? It would be extra egg on Samsung's face if they made the dodgy batteries, and the phones sold in China used some Chinese made battery that was fine...

              1. PaulR79
                Mushroom

                Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

                @DougS and others regarding the battery source.

                I'm surprised that you and others are unaware of the source but it is indeed as you thought. Samsung made the majority of the batteries (around 70% I've read) and they are indeed the self-immolating ones whereas the Chinese non-Samsung manufactured batteries are fine. I had a quiet chuckle to myself about the usual "cheap Chinese import crap" and fire safety when I discovered it was Samsung at fault.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  @PaulR79

                  Thanks for the update, I hadn't heard a conclusion had been reached on that already. That is indeed egg in Samsung's face, but this one case where Chinese made batteries were not the problem won't change the perception after all the cases when they have been, from replacement Blackberry batteries a decade ago, to the batteries in Chinese made hoverboards last Christmas, to many other cases in between...

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

            How is that even technically possible?

            Don't they have a fuse in the phone in case of overvoltage?

        2. Down not across

          Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

          It was on sale in UK. I suspect anyone how pre-ordered got their phones. Samsung stopped selling it before the official release date (sensible as it needed to narrow down the problem and also has lot of devices to replace).

          I know that at least CPW sent text messages to their customers who they had supplied the Note 7.

          Not it does not come with car charger.

          Given it has USB-C, it would be logical to suspect something similar like the Anker incicent but Samsung seems to be of the opinion that fault is with the battery (they have more than supplier so probably one supplier or one batch has some issues).

        3. Down not across

          Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

          Also, does the phone itself tell you? That seems technically feasible.

          It does. Certainly today in UK Note 7's have been getting messages from Samsung to turn off the phone and get it replaced as a precaution. They have confirmed (in the same message) manufacturing issue in some batteries. Apparently whoever sold the phone, will be exchanging it (from September 19th onwards).

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: In the UK it isn't on sale yet.

            That's the problem though, Samsung was originally seen by some as "doing the right thing" by offering voluntary replacement. It was obvious how serious it was from having so many incidents in the first week after the phone was made available - if you had 35 in the first week you can expect at least that many in the next week since more phones had been sold by then, etc.

            Samsung didn't do a full recall because they didn't want the bad publicity that would go along with it. The US government forced their hand on the recall here in the US, and now with this six year old having one blow up while he's holding it over the weekend, they've been forced into the full recall anyway by instructing people to immediately discontinue use and get it replaced.

            They took a serious problem where they could have been seen to be going above and beyond to take care of their customers with a full recall from day one, but turned it into a massive PR disaster with their wishy washy optional replacement program that they communicated by press only even though they obviously had ways of directly contacting customers and could have immediately recalled all remaining products off the shelves to insure no more were sold once they were aware of the issue and knew how serious it could be to life/safety.

            This will go in business school textbooks as an example of what not to do.

      3. a_yank_lurker

        Re: I only know because I read the reg

        I think the registered owners officially have to be notified of the recall by snail mail in the US. At least that seems to be true with cars. This is partly a holdover from pre-Internet days.

      4. Hans 1

        Re: I only know because I read the reg

        I thought they had texted the relevant phones about the recall, well, Sammy had the carriers do that, iirc.

    3. clickbg

      Well Samsung officially recalled the phone on Friday 02.09 and US Labour Day(the day of the incident) was on Monday 05.09.

      Maybe the guy was not watching the news during the weekend?

      Reference: https://news.samsung.com/global/statement-on-galaxy-note7

      Reference 2: The article.

    4. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Better call Saul!

      Looks to me like a variation of an insurance scam. Guy needs money so he torches his car and tries to blame the phone because he isn't insured. As I assume any investigation will reveal.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        insurance scam

        Fire investigators are actually really good at determining the source of fire, so if the guy torched his car and blamed the phone, he'll probably be found out.

        Even if he did that doesn't absolve Samsung of the responsibility for selling a phone that does indeed explode / catch on fire at a far greater rate than other other phones.

  5. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

    You win some, you lose some

    The post is required, and must contain letters.

  6. Thought About IT

    Unusual dog

    What's a "family service dog".

    1. Blitterbug

      Re: Unusual dog

      Isn't that Merkin for Guide Dog?

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