HDMI hooks up with USB-C in cables that reverse, one way • The Register Forums

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1. Monday 5th September 2016 06:22 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  30 Hz is fine for playing movies, the overwhelming majority of which are 24 fps, which is realistically almost all the 4K people will be playing from a device with USB-C out to HDMI in (i.e. from a phone, tablet or laptop to a TV/monitor)
  
  If you are gaming in 4K@60fps or whatever you will have a device with HDMI out and connects with a standard HDMI cable to your 4K display.
  
  The long term fix will be yet another speed upgrade for USB to 20 Gbps, which will allow 4K@120 fps 4:2:0 at 10 bit color depth - that covers the highest possible spec for future 4K broadcast TV.
  
  I wonder what they will call it, supercalifragilistic speed USB?
  
  12 0 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 10:41 GMT phuzz
    
    "If you are gaming in 4K@60fps"
    
    ...then you'll either need to be loaded, or willing to set your sights no higher than Quake 2
    
    >>> mine's the one with some SLI'ed graphics cards in the pocket
    
    0 0 Reply
  2. Monday 5th September 2016 13:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    "30 Hz is fine for playing movies, the overwhelming majority of which are 24 fps"
    
    But most broadcast material is 50Hz.
    
    0 3 Reply
    1. Monday 5th September 2016 14:16 GMT Charles 9
      
      And most broadcast material isn't in 4K resolution. Anything 1080p and below, HDMI can handle easily up to 60Hz.
      
      2 1 Reply
      1. Tuesday 6th September 2016 10:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        "And most broadcast material isn't in 4K resolution."
        
        But some is - in the UK at least - and lots more soon will be...
        
        Sky are already busy moving customers to Sky Q.
        
        0 0 Reply
        
        Tuesday 6th September 2016 11:45 GMT Sam Liddicott
        
        Apart from LOTR which 4K streamed TV movies were shot at more than 24 fps?
        
        Why insist on repeating 24fps frames to the TV 60hz?
        
        0 0 Reply
    2. Monday 5th September 2016 18:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      For broadcast material at 50/60 Hz you will almost certainly NOT be using a USB-C connector to your display. Your phone, tablet and laptop can't receive ATSC or DVB-T, after all. If you think you're going to be offered the chance to live stream 4K at 50/60 Hz to your mobile device anytime soon, I've got a bridge to sell you in downtown London.
      
      0 0 Reply
  3. Monday 5th September 2016 18:35 GMT Down not across
    
    I wonder what they will call it, supercalifragilistic speed USB?
    
    LudicruoUSB
    
    6 0 Reply
  4. Monday 5th September 2016 23:56 GMT Captain DaFt
    
    "I wonder what they will call it, supercalifragilistic speed USB?"
    
    Ludicrous speed USB. The cables will be plaid.
    
    2 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 05:51 GMT death&taxes

'pfaff'?

1 0 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 08:01 GMT allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
  
  Re: 'pfaff'?
  
  That one left me puzzled, too - I only ever knew 'Pfaff' as a maker of sewing machines.
  
  4 0 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 13:03 GMT dvd
    
    Re: 'pfaff'?
    
    Yep. I've never spelled faff with a "p".
    
    1 0 Reply
2. Monday 5th September 2016 20:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  > 'pfaff'?
  
  Yes, adding extra letters to the beginning of words is confusing as it turns normal words into complete djiberish.
  
  2 0 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 22:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Djiberish indeed. Drinksh all round for that ...
    
    (If you have a djinn and tonic, is that a genie in a bottle?)
    
    Sorry, it's late.
    
    4 0 Reply
  2. Tuesday 6th September 2016 11:20 GMT Wayland
    
    The mddile of wrods can be mxxied up thye aer sitl radeble.
    
    0 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 05:53 GMT Voland's right hand

So now you can fry your TV too

Well, not content with frying your phone, you can now fry your TV too.

15 1 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 19:27 GMT Planty
  
  Re: So now you can fry your TV too
  
  Only if you are are a cheapskate and buy your cables from ebay and car boot sales.
  
  0 2 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 05:56 GMT Phil Kingston

One cable to rule them all!

1 1 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 11:13 GMT Omgwtfbbqtime
  
  you'll still need a cable tie to (in the darkness) bind them!
  
  7 0 Reply
2. Monday 5th September 2016 11:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Reminds me of this; XKCD - Standards.
  
  6 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 06:00 GMT Herby

Wonderful thing about standards....

There are so many of them.

Oh, and not everyone follows them, and they make their on "modifications" to make them their own.

So we get all sorts of display standards. To Wit: MDA, CGA, EGA, VGA (in various forms), Display Port, HDMI, and DVI, just to name a few. If you wait, more will come.

Oh, wait USB-C.

4 2 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 10:44 GMT AndrueC
  
  Re: Wonderful thing about standards....
  
  At least with USB the connectors are standardised so there's little risk of incompatibility.
  
  But I've been around long enough to remember IRQ and Port jumpering. And the irritations of RS232 (crossed or uncrossed always the question). So I love USB really :)
  
  6 0 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 16:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: Wonderful thing about standards....
    
    regarding RS-232... I would love to find a USB-RS232 adapter that includes the ability to easily flip pins 2/3. Even better would be a driver smart enough to figure it out on its own. I never have a null modem cable handy when I need one.
    
    4 0 Reply
    1. Monday 5th September 2016 22:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: Wonderful thing about standards....
      
      Ok, product development question - you'd love to find one, but would you pay more for it than a "normal" one, and would enough people buy it do you think?
      
      0 0 Reply
  2. Monday 5th September 2016 22:03 GMT Doctor Syntax
    
    Re: Wonderful thing about standards....
    
    "But I've been around long enough to remember IRQ and Port jumpering. And the irritations of RS232 (crossed or uncrossed always the question)."
    
    I'm beginning to think things were so much simpler then.
    
    5 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 06:07 GMT Oengus

When?

gazillions of devices will use it any ~~month~~ decade now FTFY

USB-C is like USB-3 It took ages for it to start rolling out and even today devices come with more USB-2 ports than USB-3

13 0 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 08:14 GMT AMBxx
  
  Re: When?
  
  Yep, my PC has both USB2 and USB3 ports. They're not labelled any differently, so no way to tell them apart.
  
  At least with USB-C, there a big label saying 'plug in here to fry device'
  
  3 5 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 10:16 GMT drdnght
    
    Re: When?
    
    All USB 3 ports and plugs are blue
    
    20 3 Reply
    1. Monday 5th September 2016 13:00 GMT James O'Shea
      
      Re: When?
      
      "All USB 3 ports and plugs are blue"
      
      err... no. Dell, for example, does not use the little blue tab. It uses a black tab, just like for USB2, except that 'SS' and a little USB3 logo are silk-screened next to the port, using the smallest possible font and in a colour as similar to that of the computer's case as possible, to maximise the odds of people not having clue one about what kind of port this is. Apple doesn't even do that; they ship devices which are either all USB2 or USB3. If one USB port is USB3, all are, and Apple sees no point in labeling them. I have seen several 'secure' USB thumb drive sticks which have red tabs... and can be bought in USB2 or USB3, with the same red tabs.
      
      And all USB C devices are USB3. I have yet to see a blue USB C tab.
      
      8 0 Reply
      1. Monday 5th September 2016 13:26 GMT AMBxx
        
        "All USB 3 ports and plugs are blue"
        
        That's really helpful when they're round the back.
        
        6 0 Reply
        
        Monday 5th September 2016 18:40 GMT Down not across
        
        Re: "All USB 3 ports and plugs are blue"
        
        That's really helpful when they're round the back.
        
        Doesn't that apply to your original complaint about them not being labeled as well? The labelling would be likely to be at the back where the ports are.
        
        3 0 Reply
      2. Monday 5th September 2016 13:38 GMT Fuzz
        
        Re: When?
        
        "And all USB C devices are USB3. I have yet to see a blue USB C tab."
        
        Not all USB-C devices are USB 3, they could be 2.0, 3.0 or 3.1
        
        I'm with you on the blue USB-A plugs/sockets though. My surface pro 2 has a solitary USB 3 port coloured black. I have a Lenovo with red and yellow USB 3 ports.
        
        4 0 Reply
        
        Monday 5th September 2016 14:22 GMT Charles 9
        
        Re: When?
        
        Red and yellow ports mean Sleep-and-Charge ports. They're powered up even with the laptop off or asleep, meaning they can be used for charging.
        
        1 0 Reply
        
        Tuesday 6th September 2016 15:24 GMT toughluck
        
        @Charles 9, red and yellow ports
        
        Red and yellow ports mean Sleep-and-Charge ports. They're powered up even with the laptop off or asleep, meaning they can be used for discharging your laptop.
        
        There, FTFY
        
        0 0 Reply
      3. Monday 5th September 2016 20:58 GMT Efros
        
        Re: When?
        
        HP laptops with USB 3.0 use black sockets too, SS marked next to the socket is the only clue, with an added lightning bolt if it's a charging socket... whose driver/hardware still doesn't work in terms of charging when the lid is closed, windows 7-10 none of them worked for this "feature".
        
        0 0 Reply
    2. Tuesday 6th September 2016 06:36 GMT Allan George Dyer
      
      Re: When?
      
      "All USB 3 ports and plugs are blue"
      
      Which is a great help when you're trying to plug the cable in at the back. Remember that it always takes 3 tries to get the plug the right way up, so it's going to take forever to get it right.
      
      1 0 Reply
  2. Monday 5th September 2016 11:09 GMT Efros
    
    Re: When?
    
    The last motherboard I bought had all sorts of bells and whistles, onboard m.2 connector, SATA Xpress, onboard switches to enable overclocking, onboard display to display hex fault codes etc, and tons of USB 2 ports. 8 of them USB 2.0 and 2 USB 3.0 with another two on a mobo header. WTF 8 2.0 ports thanks Gigabyte!!!
    
    0 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 06:12 GMT Anonymous Coward

So how is a simple user meant to work out what the USBC port is capable of. Obviously this cable when plugged into a port that does not support HDMI will prove useless - will there be a set of symbols introduced to help inform people what they can and can't use a particular USB-C port for?

14 0 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 07:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  > will there be a set of symbols introduced to help inform people what they can and can't use a particular USB-C port for?
  
  Yes, there is already a highly confusing set of symbols, which will now need to be extended.
  
  http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/usb-31-usb-type-c-refresher,news-51106.html
  
  I think many punters are going to be very annoyed when they buy a USB-C to Foo cable, but it doesn't work with Foo - and will blame the cable.
  
  (Similarly, I remember you could buy a TV which was labelled both "Freeview" and "HD Ready", but was not actually able to receive Freeview HD when it came along)
  
  9 0 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 08:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    I have one of those TVs. Doesn't bother me though as I do all my viewing via a PVR anyway - the TV doesn't need a digital tuner at all and the analogue tuner is just used as a CCTV monitor.
    
    1 2 Reply
  2. Monday 5th September 2016 10:43 GMT Steve Foster
    
    @AC
    
    Well, of course, everyone (other than marketeers) quickly learnt that "HD Ready" = "not actually capable of HD" (see also "Vista Ready").
    
    4 0 Reply
2. Monday 5th September 2016 07:39 GMT Dan 55
  
  So how is a simple user meant to work out what the USBC port is capable of.
  
  Connect or daisy-chain stuff up and look for device the smoke comes out of.
  
  10 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 06:14 GMT Don Dumb

No need for dongles?

Is a USBc to HDMI cable that different from a dongle?

9 0 Reply
1. Monday 5th September 2016 12:08 GMT Fuzz
  
  Re: No need for dongles?
  
  I don't get this either.
  
  I can already buy a USB-C to HDMI dongle. I didn't realise that I couldn't buy an HDMI to USB-C cable I hadn't considered that it would be a different thing.
  
  0 0 Reply
  1. Monday 5th September 2016 12:34 GMT Martin an gof
    
    Re: No need for dongles?
    
    If I understand correctly, the dongles you can currently buy for USB (various flavours) to HDMI are effectively graphics cards in a cable and need a driver. The idea of this new specification is that the graphics card stays in the originating device so any required drivers are already loaded.
    
    The first type of device is good for adding a second (third, fourth) display to your computer if your computer doesn't already have that number of outputs. The new type of device is best for a: portable devices such as phones and tablets, where loading a driver (or even finding one) is impossible and b: "air" type laptops where the comparatively bulky HDMI port can be removed.
    
    Presumably though, if past performance is anything to go by, this will lead to laptops with very few physical ports, which means that if you want to connect more than one device (what, you want to connect a memory stick and a display, and a receiver for the clicky presenter device?) you'll end up with hubs or port splitters or something which is hardly ideal.
    
    M.
    
    5 0 Reply
    1. Monday 5th September 2016 12:48 GMT Fuzz
      
      Re: No need for dongles?
      
      "If I understand correctly, the dongles you can currently buy for USB (various flavours) to HDMI are effectively graphics cards in a cable and need a driver."
      
      Not for USB-C they're not. I think they're using the display port over USB-C with a DP to HDMI adapter.
      
      0 0 Reply
      1. Monday 5th September 2016 14:11 GMT Martin an gof
        
        Re: No need for dongles?
        
        I think they're using the display port over USB-C
        
        Until now a "USB to display" adapter was effectively a graphics card in a cable.
        
        With this new standard, the graphics hardware stays in the originating device.
        
        Didn't I already say that? Sorry. I'll shut up now.
        
        M.
        
        1 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 06:15 GMT Richard 12

Will they cut their licence fees?

It costs a bleedin' fortune to put an HDMI connector on anything, whether device or cable.

That's one of the main reasons DisplayPort is doing well.

The other being that DisplayPort is objectively better, though that's never really mattered too much in this industry.

14 0 Reply
Monday 5th September 2016 06:52 GMT L05ER

meh.

i'll keep pfaffing about with my Display Port to VGA "dongle", TYVM.

3 0 Reply