back to article WhatsApp is to hand your phone number to Facebook

WhatsApp has updated its terms and privacy policy for the first time in four years as part of parent company Facebook’s plans to generate cash through app users' data. While WhatsApp has been a separate service from Facebook since its acquisition for $16bn two years ago, the companies are now going to enjoy a cosier …

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  1. NoneSuch Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Stopped using WhatsApp a long time ago. Just after FB bought it actually. I saw the writing on the wall and dumped it.

    Beaming my info to the mothership has zero interest to me.

    1. Number6

      Me too, heard the news that FB bought it, sent one last message to relevant contacts telling them I was uninstalling it and that was it.

      I've never had the FB app on my phone either, why do they need access to my phone number and contact list?

      1. Steve Evans

        FB never had my mobile number, and it will remain so.

        Never installed their app, used m.facebook.com... Eventually they turned up the crippling to force mobile users to install their intrusive messenger app if they wanted to send messages... Installed Opera instead, as the mobile website messenger is only deliberately crippled for specific browsers, which doesn't currently include Opera.

        1. phuzz Silver badge
          Facepalm

          "FB never had my mobile number, and it will remain so."

          Unless of course any of your friends or family have allowed FB or Whatsapp to access their contacts. Which they probably have.

          Chances are, they've already got your number from multiple other people, so they know your mobile number, probably your email as well, and they have an idea of who you're friends with. You might even have been tagged in a photo so they know what you look like too.

          I don't have a FB account either but I have no illusions that it means they don't know anything about me.

          1. Havin_it
            Black Helicopters

            @phuzz: This. I use FB only via web, my missus had Whatsapp for a while before she joined FB (including an overlapping period after the buyout) and after the buyout, I started getting friend suggestions of her friends with whom I'd had no contact on FB. Can't see any other way that could have happened.

            So a fat lot of good withholding my phone number from Zuckerbitch did me, in the end.

      2. Sparks_
        Meh

        Hope you also triggered the account deletion request too.

        Whether they actually delete, accidentally have it in database backups, or have a system as incompetence as the plod's face recognition database is yet to be seen. Could be interesting if not.

        1. Planty Bronze badge

          Facebook are the scummiest of the lot. They don't delete your data. I left Facebook 5 years ago, requested data deletion. If increase a fake account now, provide no real details, it has friend suggestions of family and friends. Clearly my IP address and friends data is still in there.

          Google gets all the bad rap, but Facebook and Microsoft are the real bad guys.

    2. Mark Jan

      I started getting a message on my brilliant Nokia 808 (running Symbian) that WhatsApp will no longer be supported on my device after the end of 2016. I guess they just can't be bothered / get the APIs to work in a non Android / IOS environment to "better improve their service". Suits me as will no longer be using WhatsApp and will be uninstalling it based on today's news.

      I've never had a facebook / twitter account and use DuckDuckGo 99% of the time.

      I'm constantly amazed at how people can't appear to live without these "services".

      1. Jess

        Moving over to telegram

        I am planning to stop using whatsapp (unless they allow it to be moved to SD card to reduce its footprint) when they drop support for Nokia and BB phones. (Since it will cut off my mum, my brother and one of my best friends.) I have been advocating Telegram to all my contacts.

        Though as far as I can tell telegram isn't likely to happen on Symbian, so it looks like ICQ might be the best replacement.

        1. NonSSL-Login
          Alert

          Re: Moving over to telegram

          Telegram uploads a copy of your address book to their servers too. It is also not actually secure as many people seem to believe. It never even encrypted messages by default unless you turned it on.

          Signal is the better choice if you want security. It also uploads your phone book but does it in a more secure way. Bloom filters.

          The creators of Signal made it for privacy from the start and knowing their ethos they would never pass on your address book even if they could in a meaningful way.

          1. Jess

            Re: Moving over to telegram

            I'm sure there are easier ways to get my contact list - googlemail for one. So that isn't an issue to me, however I looked up Signal but it appears it suffers from the same limitations as whatsapp, single device and iOS, Android only.

            I like telegram because of the multiple device support and the support for Windows, Mac, Linux and there's even a BlackBerry client.

            But thanks for the info, I was unaware of Signal previously.

            1. 404

              Re: Moving over to telegram

              What about BBM?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why bother?

      Why do people like you even bother commenting, just to brag you saw it coming? Selfish and boring.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why bother?

        And why did people downvote that? Because I accurately revealed you add NOTHING but bragging?

      2. Jeffrey Nonken

        Re: Why bother?

        Why are you complaining about people complaining? Selfish and boring. Go read the next article.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    FUCK OFF

    I don't think there's anything more to add, is there?

    1. BenDwire Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: FUCK OFF

      Yes there is AC. How about your name and telephone number?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: FUCK OFF

      And DIE maybe ?

      1. Porco Rosso

        Re: FUCK OFF

        Fuck off ...

        but they have all your data not from you but by your friends and so who do use these services

        and have your name-card complete filled in their mobile contact-list.

        Unfortunately we have no option to go out of this Matrix :(

        1. Doctor_Wibble
          Unhappy

          Re: FUCK OFF

          Have a million upvotes for the painful truth.

          I had some good news recently, someone was trying to tag my mugshot on FB and it didn't have me on file - which means the person taking all those pictures at that wedding I was pssed at years ago clearly never bothered.

          But I fail at paying attention and didn't see or forgot that whatsapp was part of one of the commercial arms of the bottom inspectors and I'm on the verge of being cornered into using FB because people don't remember to read their email more than once every six months.

          Though once I'm on FB even with minimal everything that opens the door because everybody else is a fckn blabbermouth.

          1. Sparks_
            Paris Hilton

            Re: FUCK OFF

            You bring up an interesting point. If you ever (that's ever, not just currently) put up a mugshot on WhatsApp (or Instagram for that matter) then they already have your face (or other parts!) for recognition purposes.

            Paris, cos selfies

        2. Captain DaFt

          Re: FUCK OFF

          "but they have all your data not from you but by your friends and so who do use these services"

          Too true. Facebook tracks you via your friends that use Facebook, and via trackers on the websites you visit.

          They maintain so called "Shadow Profiles" on non face book members:

          http://www.zdnet.com/article/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles-are-frightening-dossiers-on-everyone/

          And track or infer 98 data points from your web behaviour.

          http://gizmodo.com/all-of-the-creepy-things-facebook-knows-about-you-1785510980

          Facebook makes the old Stasi look like a bunch of slackers.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: FUCK OFF

            I can assure you that Facebook do not track me across the web. They may try but all their shit is certainly blocked on multiple levels.

  3. Daniel B.

    Oh well

    Seems Facebook forgot that one of WhatsApp core values was not to sell out your data. They even stated that's why they would charge for their service.

    Serves me right for not leaving when they were purchased!

  4. Vimes

    And the 2nd data protection principle? How does this comply with that?

    Facebook is not needed in any way to run the service offered by WhatsApp (the spam argument IMO is a red herring) so presumably informed and *FREELY GIVEN* consent would be required for this data sharing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And the 2nd data protection principle? How does this comply with that?

      They're American. They don't care.

      1. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Facebook's big push to make money is to enter the corporate market. That means national sales offices. Which brings them under the jurisdiction of local data protection offices, even if they weren't already. And of course their European operations are based out of Ireland.

        Canada seems to apply it's rules worldwide already.

    2. Mark 65

      @Vimes - Check your WhatsApp settings dude. New update defaults to "Share with Facebook". Would you expect any less?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    To FB or not FB, that is the question.

    Thank the gods that I don't have an Facebook account!

    1. Novex

      Re: To FB or not FB, that is the question.

      Same here. The best way to avoid such an intrusion is not to open the door to the 'burglar'.

    2. Vimes

      Re: To FB or not FB, that is the question.

      You do realise don't you that Facebook puts a lot of effort these days into tracking non-users as well as users?

      You don't have to have an account for Facebook to have information on you.

      1. Novex

        Re: To FB or not FB, that is the question.

        You do realise don't you that Facebook puts a lot of effort these days into tracking non-users as well as users?

        You don't have to have an account for Facebook to have information on you.

        With NoScript, Privacy Badger, Adblock Plus, and clearing cookies regularly (not just on exit), I think it will be harder for Farcebook to reliably track me.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: To FB or not FB, that is the question.

          I think it will be harder for Farcebook to reliably track me.

          Not at all, they just ask your friends. Or did you really think that Facebook was only grabbing phone numbers via WhatsApp for future SMS spam?

    3. Captain DaFt

      Re: To FB or not FB, that is the question.

      "Thank the gods that I don't have an Facebook account!"

      Yes you do, you just can't see it... unless you open an account.

  6. wyatt
    Unhappy

    I would gloat that I don't use Whatsap or Facebook but I know enough people that do who will allow this to happen.

    There's no way of having it removed unless you give it to them first so they know what it is.. if there is such a process?

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      WhatsApp > Settings > Account > Delete My Account.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        WhatsApp > Settings > Account > Delete My Account.

        Ah, but I think you'll find that won't delete the address book data they got off you. You may leave, but you still exposed your friends and other contacts when you joined and I reckon they won't let you undo that. It is thus recommended you add some Data Protection office contacts, but don't label them as such - sync before you leave and it'll be fun when they start abusing that..

  7. Forget It
    Stop

    Practical advice on how to not accept this:

    https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/general/26000016

    Before you tap Agree to accept our updated Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, tap Read.

    You will see a control at the bottom of the screen. If you do not want your account information shared with Facebook to improve your Facebook ads and products experiences, you can uncheck the box or toggle the control.

    believe it or not

    1. Vimes

      That won't stop the sharing of data, just limit how it's used?

      From the article:

      Users are not able to opt out of this data sharing, although you can choose not to allow to be shared for the purpose of improving their experience with advertisements and product experiences on Facebook.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        "Users are not able to opt out of this data sharing"

        I think the UK and EU Data Protection Commissioners might have something to say about that.

        1. Vimes

          I've already sent an email to the ICO asking about this.

          If anybody here needs to write to them for whatever reason they can be contacted using this email address:

          casework [at] ico.org.uk

          1. davidp231

            Looks like they have woken up.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37198445

        2. Mark 65

          I think the UK and EU Data Protection Commissioners might have something to say about that.

          The point being that it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. The damage is done, they have your info and they won't be deleting it. I'm verging on the point of going back to a simple calls + SMS phone.

      2. clanger9

        Assuming you have both, how can they link your WhatsApp profile (that has a phone number) which your Facebook account (which doesn't)?

        Are they linking using the email address or what? I have a different one for both. I've never associated my mobile number with my Facebook account and have no intention of doing so...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Big Brother

          They will link it by statistical analysis of the networks of your friends that use WhatsApp and/or Facebook. Many will have uploaded contact details, others may have uploaded your email addresses etc. Its not a hard problem to solve. They may not get your full name, but that's not what they actually want. They will have a unique identifier for YOU, and it will almost certainly be right. Ditto, and with bells on, what google is capable of doing. It doesn't matter if you never ever use anything by google, chances are very high that if you use the internet, there is a unique identifier in google's system with an electronic 'signature' that matches you.

          Take a step back and imagine the data trove that Google can have on almost anyone, even someone who tries to be 'dark'. If you are a casual non tech user who accepts cookies, uses Gmail and has an android phone, google probably knows more about you than even your closest confidante.

          I would really love a major news vendor to expose this to the public because I think many people would be shocked to understand this. I don't think many people realize that almost all web pages they visit are connected to the same company that runs their phone (for many) and that provides their mail, and manages all their files, and their work's files, and their online maps, and their internet searches etc etc. They may think they know this, but I don't think they grasp the implications fully.

          Icon because we are way way beyond 1984 now.

          1. clanger9

            Yes, you're right (and I already grok all of that).

            However, the article seems to imply that they will add your WhatsApp mobile number to your Facebook account profile - something FB has nagged for for years and I've always resisted. No means no, right?

            I realise/accept/hate the fact that *they* are able to identify "me", but I will also be very pissed off if they add my mobile number to my FB account without asking.

      3. Dan 55 Silver badge

        If you read the FAQ and the EULA linked to on that page, it seems they won't share any data with Facebook at all. If you don't untick the "Share to Facebook" box when you're asked to accept the new privacy policy you've still got another 30 days to untick it in Settings > Accounts.

    2. Schlimnitz
      Thumb Up

      Cor blimey,

      Have a million upvotes, I just right now got the popup on my 'phone and without your comment I wouldn't have thought to root around and find the opt-out.

    3. DomD

      Nope, apparently that's not true, just read the careful wording. This just limits what Facebook will do with your data, does not stop them exchanging phone number and contacts. The Reg had it right, other sites got carried away.

    4. DomD

      https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/general/26000016

      'The Facebook family of companies will still receive and use this information for other purposes such as improving infrastructure and delivery systems, understanding how our services or theirs are used, securing systems, and fighting spam, abuse, or infringement activities.'

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