back to article Corbyn lied, Virgin Trains lied, Harambe died

So, Jeremy Corbyn recorded a message in which he was sitting on the floor of a train traveling between London and Newcastle, claiming it was "ram-packed" (as exampled by his floor sitting) and that was why all of the trains needed to be renationalised. While on the floor in a video for The Guardian's website, Jez said: "This …

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  1. Tom 7

    Cant see where he lied

    just saying.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cant see where he lied

      Corbyn must be discredited because he is "unelectable".

      As in not the PM Rupert Murdoch wants.

      1. Patrician

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        Corbyn needs to be discredited because he is undetectable, as you stated. While he my be the saviour of British Politics that his supporters believe him to be, it's not his supporters that need to vote for him to get him into office. And that is where the problem lies; the borderline Labour voter will not vote for him as his policies are firmly entrenched in the Foot and Benn style Labour party of the '70's. And the Labour voter that he appeals to, and would be his natural supporter, no longer exist in any great numbers.

        Still, so long as he's the leader of the Labour party we can be assured of a Tory government so there's something to be depressed about.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          How do you differentiate between "dishonest" and "lying"?

          I think in politics dishonest is just the assumed general ground state, and lying is when it can be proven.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cant see where he lied

      he didn't, Tom 7............he was sat!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cant see where he lied

      The blatant lie was to say that train was rammed. As a commuter of 20 years I know what a rammed train looks like and consider that train to be pretty empty when he got on, especially in coach H where he walked past mostly empty and all unreserved seats. In fact he walked past the empty seat where he later sat for a couple of hours. The second "lie" was to imply in the photo call that sitting on the floor was the only way for him to get a seat: perhaps not technically a lie but certainly dishonest.

      Now I don't expect politicians to tell the truth, but surely it's part of their professional etiquette that when they lie they should do it convincingly and not get caught out so easily.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        See, the Corbynistas won't argue with you (because it's pretty bloody obvious that Corbo lied), they'll just throw bricks through your window (or downvote you, in this case). It's hilarious that anybody seriously thinks that idot is going to get elected.

        1. Tom 7

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          Still cant see where he lied. The train was pretty much fully booked and all the seats were reserved and others were sitting in the corridors before he started.

          I really cant see why Virgin trains would try to contest what a man who has said he would privatise the railways and ruin their cash cow would try and make him look bad.

          1. R3sistance

            Re: Cant see where he lied

            If he got up and sat on a seat shortly afterwards, then clearly he lied. More so, anybody that has been on these types of trains usually knows the reservation tickets usually have stations printed on them. Since many reserved tickets are for later or earlier stops. Thus the seat is only reserved for certain periods and often not the whole Journey. Unless things have changed in the past five years, that is certainly how I remember it working last time I was on such a train.

        2. Mark Dempster

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          The brick thing has also been comprehensively debunked. There is NO evidence that Corbyn supporters were involved, and the broken window wasn't even in the MP's (Angela Eagle) office - it was in a stairwell shared with 7 other offices. Most likely either plain vandalism or a botched break-in.

          But then, Eagle does have a lot of form for lying recently... most notably for claiming to have experienced homophobic abuse at her constituency meeting, which it's been proved she hadn't even attended.

        3. Hugh Barnard

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          Actually the 'brick' affair has turned out to be in a common part of the building away from Eagle's offices. So I'd place less reliance on media owned by billionaires, if I were you.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        What Virgin should have done is sued for Libel. With the evidence in their back pocket, it would have been even more interesting.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          @AC

          "What Virgin should have done is sued for Libel. With the evidence in their back pocket, it would have been even more interesting."

          Without releasing the evidence it would be an evil corporation vs the saviour of the labour party. And if a charge could be brought to court it would demonstrate how the evil corporations own the law and the conspiracy against Corbyn would be absolute or virgin would release the evidence.

          Sometimes releasing the actual evidence is the only way to prove to the public. Hopefully this wont cause a problem legally.

          1. Why Not?

            Re: Cant see where he lied

            but unfortunately for Virgin they have breached the law by releasing them. they are now in a no win situation.

            What they should have done is asked the Guardian & Corbyn for a retraction or they would see them in court,

            It would then be plucky Virgin stopping a newspaper laying, Corbyn would have been a side issue.

        2. Mark Dempster

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          The other way around, it now seems.

      3. PhilipN Silver badge

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        Stuck in a short train at Paddington at rush hour, waiting and waiting, people packing in and packing in, waiting and waiting...and dripping inside one's shirt....6 square inches of standing room per passenger... boiling hot.... A mate of one of my fellow passengers was about to board, opened the door and as soon as his face was inside recoiled in disgust saying "Cor! You want some oxygen in there?!"

        His mate (the one already on board) shouted "The 6:10 is just as bad, [name withheld]". The guy took a deep breath and squeezed on.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          Stuck in a short train at Paddington at rush hour, waiting and waiting, people packing in and packing in, waiting and waiting...and dripping inside one's shirt...

          Dark, satanic trains of the monopolistic capitalists. They are probably even transporting children in there.

          If only there were some germanic communistic discontent with eschatological tendencies, scant knowledge of economics but who had studied that totally tripping absolutistic-monarchy-selling court philosopher Hegel. He could write a multi-volume book about these terrible conditions which could then be distributed via amazon.

          1. Allonymous Coward
            Joke

            Re: Cant see where he lied

            Kapital idea.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        Now I don't expect politicians to tell the truth, but surely it's part of their professional etiquette that when they lie they should do it convincingly and not get caught out so easily.

        I agree. Totally lacks professionalism as a politician to get caught out so easily - honestly, have they no shame?

        :)

      5. Mike 137 Silver badge

        "Rammed"

        Where does this "ram packed" and "rammed" come from? The train would have been rammed if another train had run into it. This train was just jam packed.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Rammed"

          Ive spent the last hour questioning myself as to whether i had misheard for the last 48 years "ram packed" and not "jam packed".

          I am pleased to report the poisonous little dwarf has it wrong and it IS jam packed.

        2. Rimpel
          Paris Hilton

          Re: "Rammed"

          https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rammed

          ram

          verb

          1. roughly force (something) into place.

          2.BRITISH informal

          (of a place) be very crowded.

          "the club is rammed to the rafters every week"

          icon - Paris knows what it means

          1. Simon Harris

            Re: "Rammed" (quoting Rimpel)

            (of a place) be very crowded.

            "the club is rammed to the rafters every week"

            That one comes from the Oxford University Press

            http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ram

            When it comes to words, I generally assume they know what they're talking about.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Rammed" (quoting Rimpel)

              Re: "Rammed" (quoting Rimpel)

              (of a place) be very crowded.

              "the club is rammed to the rafters every week"

              Exactly. The definition is a verb - rammed.

              I challenge anyone to find a definition of "Ram-Packed" anywhere.

              1. Arty Effem

                Re: "Rammed" (quoting Rimpel)

                'I challenge anyone to find a definition of "Ram-Packed" anywhere.'

                I challenge anyone to deny my right to coin a phrase on the spur of the moment, especially one likely to be included in future dictionaries.

        3. Imsimil Berati-Lahn

          Re: "Ram Packed"???

          Perhaps it is a reference to programming the venerable ZX81.

          1. AMBxx Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: "Ram Packed"???

            I travel that line frequently from York to London. On a mid-morning train, I'd be disappointed if I didn't get a whole carriage to myself, it's deserted.

            Only carriage likely to be busy is the one that's offered by default when you reserve a seat. I assume that's the one that Corbyn walked through.

            The story about the family being upgraded sounds like something that's been invented. On a weekend, they often offer cheap upgrades to first. During the week, you pay the full upgrade and that's £100+ per ticket.

            Virgin need to release the figures on the number of travellers - they do a full ticket inspection on leaving London so will know.

      6. Mark Dempster

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        It was made clear at the time that there were spaces in 1st class - but Corbyn chose not to upgrade (because most people can't afford to, and the taxpayer is paying for it).

        There were clearly no seats available, despite Virgin's claims, because Corbyn joined several other people already sitting on the floor.

        45 minutes into the journey a family did get an upgrade to 1st class, enabling Corbyn to take one of their seats.

        All of this is easily verifiable, as other commuters have corroborated it. It also tallies with what Corbyn said at the time.

        The dodgy part comes when you watch the video footage that Virgin released. Look closely at things like camera number, carriage ID, time, etc & you'll see that the footage has not been presented in the right order or from the relevant times in all cases. Put simply, it's faked.

        1. Tom 38

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          It was made clear at the time that there were spaces in 1st class - but Corbyn chose not to upgrade (because most people can't afford to, and the taxpayer is paying for it).

          There were clearly no seats available, despite Virgin's claims, because Corbyn joined several other people already sitting on the floor.

          That train was not even slightly close to packed. I'm certain there were no regular commuters sitting on the floor, we would be in those reserved seats, or sitting in any empty seat without a bag on it, not walking the carriages looking for 4 empty table seats. So many non regular commuters will walk through a carriage with empty seats without saying a word - "Excuse me, is this seat taken?" is not that tricky.

          45 minutes into the journey a family did get an upgrade to 1st class, enabling Corbyn to take one of their seats.

          They moved people to first class so that Jezza could sit next to his aide at a table, not because there were no seats to sit on at all. If you are so precious that you cannot be separated from your travel companions, book seats - unless you are trying to manufacture an outrage to suit your own political agenda.

        2. Red Bren

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          If the train wasn't packed and there were seats available as Virgin Trains are saying, why did they give a 1st class upgrade to that family? Is it Branson's generous new policy to give the proles a chance to see how their masters live?

          More likely they couldn't bribe Corbyn with a first class seat so they shuffled the other passengers around.

        3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Cant see where he lied

          It was made clear at the time that there were spaces in 1st class - but Corbyn chose not to upgrade (because most people can't afford to, and the taxpayer is paying for it).

          FWIW MPs have allowances precisely to cover things like necessary travel expenses and travel first class if you want to get any work done.

          If this was a business trip he, or his office, should have booked in advance. Seemed to me a bit like it was the first time he's actually travelled outside of London.

          I can't stand the Tories but I have no time for this relic from the 1970s. He's going to ruin the Labour Party and bring down progressive politics with it.

      7. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        "was the only way for him to get a seat: perhaps not technically a lie but certainly dishonest."

        How do you differentiate between "dishonest" and "lying"? Isn't being dishonest "technically" telling a lie?

      8. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        The blatant lie was to say that train was rammed. As a commuter of 20 years I know what a rammed train looks like

        Am I missing something, but wouldn't a rammed train look sort of crinkled lengthways or with a large dent in the side?

        And a ram-packed train would be full of livestock.

        Did he really mean "jam-packed"?

      9. fwadman

        Re: Cant see where he lied

        in a rammed train you don't have space to sit on the floor ... it's standing all the way

    4. earl grey
      Facepalm

      Re: Cant see where he lied

      Go back and watch the part where the lips were moving. That's it. Now you've got it.

  2. Enrico Vanni
    FAIL

    The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

    No pun intended!

    ...and why couldn't Corbyn have been a bit more organised and reserved a seat? His lack of planning does not justify renationalisation of the network.

    1. Dazed and Confused

      Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

      Well if it was anything like the nationalised trains I used to have to try and commute on he wouldn't have been sitting on the floor, he'd have been sitting on the platform like everyone else coz they'd have cancelled it again.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

        "Well if it was anything like the nationalised trains I used to have to try and commute on he wouldn't have been sitting on the floor, he'd have been sitting on the platform like everyone else"

        You had seats on the platforms?

        Yes, I well remember the evening "rush" hours spend on Marylebone station wondering if they'd ever find enough working units to make up a 4-unit train.

      2. Richard 45

        Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

        What, like the private operator Southern Trains?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

        "Well if it was anything like the nationalised trains I used to have to try and commute on he wouldn't have been sitting on the floor, he'd have been sitting on the platform like everyone else coz they'd have cancelled it again."

        You mean the nationalised trains that had suffered years of underfunding by the Tories in order that they could push through privatisation as a move which would bring positive change? I guess you're right, the mistake wasn't just that the system needed an organisational shake-up plus decent funding and investment! No, of course, it needed a privatised system geared towards profit for corporations, share traders, and fatcats to pocket millions at the expense of customers less able to afford the massively-above-inflation rises in ticket prices, and exacerbate the growing rich-poor divide for decades to come.

        Besides, all you had to do was to pronounce Corbyn unelectable like everyone else and it would automatically disqualify any political stance he holds.

        1. Dave 15

          Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

          The same tories who managed to create a report dismembering the whole goods moving apparatus and most of the rail system when their transport minister owned a road haulage firm?

          Politicians, frankly if we could stick them all on a spacecraft to the sun it would be too few too late.

      4. Patrician

        Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

        This is what I don't understand; I remember the days of British Rail, and not in anyway fondly, late dirty and tatty trains when you actually got one, many were cancelled, and surly, rude staff who couldn't give a flying fig leaf for passengers, were just some of the problems. Why on Earth would anybody want to go back to that?

    2. Steve Foster
      Big Brother

      Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

      While I agree with your sentiment in principle (that two "wrongs" don't make a "right"), if Corbyn has voluntarily waived his right to privacy by publishing "selfies" of his journey, then it can't really be argued that Virgin have breached said right by publishing additional footage of the same journey (not having seen the footage, I would hope that they did at least blur out any other passengers! [or obtain their consent]).

      "...and why couldn't Corbyn have been a bit more organised and reserved a seat? His lack of planning does not justify renationalisation of the network."

      Because *terrorists*, obviously! :)

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

        "...and why couldn't Corbyn have been a bit more organised and reserved a seat? His lack of planning does not justify renationalisation of the network."

        He was organised and planned. They (Corbyn, PR and spin) planned to make a political point. His labour people are quite capable of reserving a seat and would normally do so. On this occasion, taking TV cameras along he went out with the intention of stirring up some shit and was disappointed when there turned out to be seats available anyway. So they went ahead and faked the situation, were caught out and now his PR spin people are working like crazy to limit damage.

        The man is a fake. He tries to sell this man of principle thing, but he has put his personal desire to join the historical list of UK (England and Wales by then) PMs ahead of his party. A narcissist just like all the other PMs.

        Now Labour idiots are going to use their membership to elect a new leader instead of listening to their MPs. The vote of the membership in a general election is already assured, but the MPs are concerned with the vote of the electorate in general - so they should listen to the MPs if they want to get into number 10.

        The tories love Corbyn because he gives them such an easy ride, but it makes me sad because have such a weak and hopeless opposition is bad for the country.

        1. Mark Dempster

          Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

          It was made clear at the time that there were spaces in 1st class - but Corbyn chose not to upgrade (because most people can't afford to, and the taxpayer is paying for it).

          There were clearly no seats available, despite Virgin's claims, because Corbyn joined several other people already sitting on the floor.

          45 minutes into the journey a family did get an upgrade to 1st class, enabling Corbyn to take one of their seats.

          All of this is easily verifiable, as other commuters have corroborated it. It also tallies with what Corbyn said at the time.

          The dodgy part comes when you watch the video footage that Virgin released. Look closely at things like camera number, carriage ID, time, etc & you'll see that the footage has not been presented in the right order or from the relevant times in all cases. Put simply, it's faked.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

          It took Kinnock 3 elections to realise the party loved him but the electorate didnt

          How long it takes Corbyn will determin how long we have to vote Tory

          And notice how we now have a labour Mayor of london and the 24 hour tube union gripes dissapeared without any new offers on the table?

    3. Stuart Halliday

      Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

      Like none of us ever thought that when the train is full to bursting.

    4. Mark Dempster

      Re: The 'two wrongs make a right' argument.

      He did reserve a seat, but missed his train while talking to the public & had to get this one.

  3. Commswonk

    Stop whining...

    Neither the Labour Party nor Virgin Trains immediately responded to our enquiries.

    Could you possibly add to your enquiries "Did Mr Corbyn actually try to book a seat?" Given that he does not seem to be complaining that he tried that but none was available it seems fair to assume that he didn't. In which case "why not"?

    If he had tried but been denied on the grounds of non - availability then he might just have had a point, but as it stands this looks like a politician whinging in the (forlorn) hope of gaining capital from it.

    The only way renationalisation would help is that the trains would become so bloody awful that the proletariat would desert them in droves leaving all the more space for the Dear Leader.

    Dear Mr Corbyn; trains get full. It happens every day. It inconveniences people every day. Shit happens, and all that. Deal with it.

    Heaven forfend that he ever gets the keys to No 10...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stop whining...

      I wouldn't want to be the guy who scoured the logs to see if Mr Corbyn, or unnamed assistant, tried to reserve a ticket, no doubt the records will show how many seats were sold and reserved and the size of the train.

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