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Three quarters of Oz science grads can't get science work

Can Australia copy Israel?

Israel seems to be making the process of turning science and engineering grads into successful companies and jobs work.

How can Australia emulate Israel? Or is the 'start up nation' of Israel over-hyped? What is good about Israel or crap about OzBoganLand? Are Bogans dragging down out economic growth?

It would be interesting to see El Reg do a bit of analysis on any of these questions.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Can Australia copy Israel?

"It would be interesting to see El Reg do a bit of analysis on any of these questions."

or anyone.

Mind you we do seem to be extraordinarily good at producing mid level bureaucrats, self destructive regulations, NIMBY's, and cartels.

Can we export some of these?...... Please!

Boxed meat perhaps?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Can Australia copy Israel?

"Israel seems to be making the process of turning science and engineering grads into successful companies and jobs work."

A yearly blank cheque from the US helps quite a lot in this regard.

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Silver badge
Boffin

R & D

One of the big issues is modern "entrepreneur culture" is that it is really "flash in the pan culture", so the idea that to continue being innovative in the long haul requires a company invest in R&D has largely been lost.

The best R&D as well as Product Development teams (in my experience), have a sprinkling of science & math majors mixed in with the engineering majors.

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Re: Can Australia copy Israel?

Israel is smart enough to prevent foreign nationals from using visas to destroy the tech sector. Oz is in the same boat as Blighty and the US as greedo executives have used cheap, exploitable labor and broken visa systems to keep salaries down so that executive compensation can go up without ticking off the stock holders terribly.

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Bronze badge

Comp Sci degree

I for one have found fresh Comp Sci grads to be very useful, especially when there is a bit of a breeze at GrumpyKiwi HQ and there is a danger that some paperwork might get blown off a desk. Their valuable CO2 contributions to the office pot plants is also much appreciated.

The rest of their "insights" less so...

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yeah but engineering sucks

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""If you actually want a STEM job, be an engineer: science graduates are mostly under-employed..."

A classic explanation of the difference between scientists and engineers says, "Scientists make it known, engineers make it useful."

Most employers want to make money via things that are useful.

Most software development is for useful business applications with practical heuristics or operational scripts. They mostly exploit, but do not develop office suites and graphics package, compilers, interpreters, other end user generic applications, and infrastructure middleware (server daemons of all kinds). Fewer still do computer science, generating academic proofs of theorems of orthonormality, completeness or complexity. I was successful in the industry for over three decades before needing to learn and use "regular expressions," regarding which the Computer Science Graduate Record Exam devoted several questions.

For my undergraduate education, I chose a university where I could switch from Physics to Engineering without a problem. I didn't wait until my sophomore year. Programming was something I did as needed for a business, charitable, or personal purpose.

Don't major in Computer Science, unless you want to be an academic. Major in a domain that is interesting to you, that you will consider fun and fulfilling to work in, and will pay the bills. Learn enough math, propositional logic, queuing and graph theory, and lastly programming, to further your real interest.

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Silver badge

not just australia

Researchers simply aren't valued. I'd say that 95% of our PhD graduates end up working outside the field (One left to be a patent clerk, in a reversal of past trends)

Engineers turn research into reality, so business can see their point, but coming up with the ideas in the first place isn't seen as a priority.

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Anonymous Coward

This is not news. It was the same when I completed my BSc 40 years ago - and what motivated me to do an EE as well immediately after.

While the pure science subjects are fascinating as a kid, they're of no use when it comes to job unless you're aspiring to be a high school science teacher. And I did regret - to some extent - no-one telling me this at the time I finished year12. With arty farty parents unfortunately I had no-one to offer useful advice.

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arty farty parents

On the other hand, my parents were pretty strict about what I studied and how my time was used.

TV and recreational activity was limited to a few hours each day.

Naturally I have worked most of my life in engineering & IT.

Finally going back to get a BFA for fun when I was around 50.

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wny is this news!

When my dsughter graduated in 1994 in biochemistry in south africa it was already very apparent that real science jobs are only available in cohntries where the actual commercial research work is done. Since most research is done by globalised companies and that is mostly done wherd their head offices are that is where all the real science jobs are... The rest need the grafuates but there is not much motivation to do stem just to become a supervisor of lab technicians or a production line. Get real, stop listening to journalistic and political drivel, and understand that if you want science graduates to boost manufacturing process tweaking then call the training what it is and restructure it honestly.... Call the the qualification aploma in Technology (DipTech) and let Institutes of Technology issue them. Then pay them more than the B.Sc's!!! After all you need them a hell of a lot more!!! Just like plumbers get paid more than bank branch managers..... Think about it and stop regurgitating the hype as the safe career option and write articles that actually report what you see and infere from that rather than paraphrasing the press releases of what your boss's advertisers would like you to write about.

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Bronze badge

Well, it is nice to buy an ice cream cone from someone who can explain in detail what exactly the ice cream consists of, why it is textured the way it is and stays twirled up and melts slowly even on a hot day...

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