back to article You know how that data breach happened? Three words: eBay, hard drives

Users are unwittingly selling sensitive and unencrypted data alongside their devices through the likes of eBay and Craigslist. Secure data erasure firm Blancco Technology Group (BTG) purchased 200 second-hand hard disk drives and solid state drives before conducting a forensic analysis to find out what data was recoverable. …

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  1. Robert Moore

    Has it been six months already?

    Six months have passed, and we read another story about sensitive date found on ebay hard drives.

    It is like no one has ever heard of dban.

    For further enlightenment:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/bofh_2006_episode_37/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Has it been six months already?

      Yup...

      And I still advocate chopping them in half... Oxy Acetylene being my weapon of choice.

      1. Mark 85

        Re: Has it been six months already?

        That works, but things that go "Bang" are more fun. Shotguns work well as do large caliber pistols. Dynamite might be a bit of overkill, though.

        1. Swarthy
          Happy

          Re: Has it been six months already?

          I favor a sand-filled dead-weight hammer. It takes a bit more effort, but the satisfaction of a job well done is worth it. Especially when the chips start flying off of the controller board.

          1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Has it been six months already?

            Nuke'em from space, it's the only way to be sure!

            Sorry, couldn't resist.

        2. The First Dave

          Re: Has it been six months already?

          Dynamite is NEVER overkill

          1. keithpeter Silver badge
            Windows

            Re: Has it been six months already?

            "Dynamite is NEVER overkill"

            @The First Dave

            Is Chlorine Triflouride overkill?

      2. Montreal Sean

        Re: Has it been six months already?

        My method of choice is dban first, then two 3/8" holes drilled through the drive.

        1. Pat Att

          Re: Has it been six months already?

          Bit tricky to sell after that though.

      3. Mpeler
        Flame

        Re: Has it been six months already?

        I say, melt them into a solid block. Solid state drives, that's the ticket...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Has it been six months already?

          None of the above methods , although fun and more effective , will get you the needed AAA certificate which you can then use to show what a data sensitive and environmentally friendly company you are.

          ( AAA = governmemt mandated standard aka license to print money)

          I think their official ISO method is to feed them to dolphins or something...

    2. herman

      Re: Has it been six months already?

      Uhmm... dban and the like don't actually work. It won't erase data in the file system journal, or in bad sectors on disk.

      1. roilled300

        Re: Has it been six months already?

        Uhmm... so, what does work?

        1. Helvehammer

          Re: Has it been six months already?

          ATA SECURE ERASE THAT HAS COME IN EVERY DRIVE SINCE 2001 KNOCKS 'EM DEAD.

          You can start from a boot floppy or small usb stick and get into real-mode-DOS and run HDDerase.

          It doesn't work on every computer though. You would be surprised on what all it does work on - SATA drives and SSDs sometimes. When it does work it is VERY user friendly !

          More hardcore, but it ALWAYS (99.99%) works is to fire up a Clonezilla LiveCD version that works on your box and go to the command line. Use FDISK-L to identify which drive you want to kill. Then say HDPARM-Y /dev/sd(?) to put that drive to sleep. Unplug the power to the drive, wait 10 seconds and plug it back in. Then HDPARM -I to wake it up and read if it is ready.(may have to do it twice)

          Then set a password on that drive like so "HDPARM - - user-master u - - security-set-pass idrive /dev/sd(?) "

          Now for the fun "HDPARM - - security-erase(-enhanced?) idrive /dev/sd(?) "

          A one Terabyte drive takes like 3 hours ! An SSD takes like 20 SECONDS !!!

          Keep in mind HDDerase and Clonezilla HDPARM commands are both just operating the ATA SECURE ERASE function built into all drives since 2001.

          YOU ARE WELCOME. I MADE AN ACCOUNT ON HERE JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION !

          PS - If you got an antique drive that doesn't support Secure Erase at all - just write random stuff to it with Clonezilla's Command line : "DD BS=512 IF=/DEV/URANDOM OF=/DEV/SD(?)" and wait possibly HOURS for it to complete. Then use a windows 98se boot floppy to FDISK and FORMAT IT.

          1. g e

            Re: Has it been six months already?

            cat /dev/rand | /dev/sda ????

            Or thermite :oD

            1. Steve Evans

              Re: Has it been six months already?

              The idea of grinding up the drive chassis for the aluminium (aluminum), mixing it up with some rust and then sparking it off on top of the platters is strangely satisfying...

              I might have to try that... Although it does sound a little intensive on the man-hours.

              1. W4YBO

                The idea of grinding up the drive chassis for the aluminium...

                Combine a two week vacation, almost a pound of leftover copper thermite from cadwelding ground rods, and a few old hard drives in the bottom of a flowerpot. I jammed an old rack handle into the top of the mass as it was cooling, and now have an odd looking doorstop.

            2. adam 40 Silver badge

              That only works if /dev/sda is executable...

              sed 's/|/>/'

          2. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Has it been six months already?

            "ATA SECURE ERASE THAT HAS COME IN EVERY DRIVE SINCE 2001 KNOCKS 'EM DEAD."

            Yup - and it DOES write out to the bad sectors and spare sectors too.

            Dban is unnecessary Voodoo - there is no need to do hundreds of overwrites on modern drives.

            Citation: http://www.howtogeek.com/115573/htg-explains-why-you-only-have-to-wipe-a-disk-once-to-erase-it/ and http://www.dban.org/node/40

            TL;DR: Peter Gutmann's original research was performed on 10 and 20MB MFM stepper motor hard drives, which haven't been made or sold for more than 20 years. Voice coil head controllers are far more accurate in their tracking and the inter-track spacing in higher capacity drives is so small that the atomic force microscopy method doesn't work. (You need to be a three letter agency to be doing this kind of shit anyway, and finding 10kB of sensitive data amongst 200GB of erased stuff isn't going to be easy)

            If the drive supports ATA secure erase: use it.

            If not: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd{drive} is more than sufficient.

            NOTE: If you have a self-encrypting drive then all that needs to be done is to change the key. That's what a ATA secure erase does on these ones and is why the secure erase only takes a couple of minutes on such drives.

            ATA erase and ATA secure erase were implemented as a direct response to Peter Gutmann's security papers. It was clear that decent erasure methods were needed and this was the industry's response to the issue. The erasure provided by these methods is more than sufficient to prevent _any_ previously written data being extracted from a drive (Source: Personal discussions with Andre Hedrick when he was a member of the ATA technical committee.)

      2. Old Handle

        dban doesn't work

        Do you have any evidence for this? Not being able to overwrite bad sectors I can understand, but why would the journal be out of reach? Surely it would treat the device as a raw volume ignoring the file system entirely.

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Sampler

    Investing

    "Investing in tools and methods to erase data from IT assets tends to sit low on their organisation’s list of IT security priorities,"

    Investing in tools? Because there's not a plethora of secure erase tools available? The only investment needed is giving your techy half an hour to set the bootable USB going and then to check it after.

    (half hour includes, as standard, time to grab a brew too)

    1. gollux

      Re: Investing

      Yeah, that free DBan download kills most budgets, as does just simply folding most 2.5" drives in half and then peeing on them and burying them out in the rose planter.

    2. herman

      Re: Investing

      Yeah, like the free secure erase algorithm that is built into every disk drive controller since the end of the previous century? Activating that routine will really break everybody's IT budget.

      1. Dave Bell

        Re: Investing

        I don't claim to be any sort of expert, but I have never heard of that. I've installed new hard drives, read instructions, set jumpers, and all that stuff, but I have no recollection of any of that.

        I expect somebody to say "Everyone knows that!". Well, we don't.

        Seriously, this is a citation needed moment.

  3. Bob Dole (tm)

    10% ?

    "Out of the 200 used HDDs and SSDs, only 10 per cent had a secure data erasure method performed on them."

    I'm surprised that 10% had been properly erased. I figured that number wouldn't be any higher than 1%

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: 10% ?

      My initial reaction was that if the figure was 10% then "FORMAT C: must have been counted as a secure data erasure method.

      On the other hand, perhaps the only people who think it is worth trying to sell old (and therefore slow, small and knackered) hard drives on eBay are bean-counters and *they* actually do have access to people with the necessary skills. Perhaps 10% is really true.

      Edit: And if bean-counters are the only people selling then (for the same reasons) perhaps data thieves (and researchers) are the only people buying them.

    2. Nigel 11

      Re: 10% ?

      Realistically, how many folks have the ability to retrieve any data from $DISK following

      # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/$DISK bs=4M

      Yes, that is not a secure erasure technique. Yes, anyone with a few grand to spare might be able to convince a data-recovery company to retrieve some random fragments of what was there before.

      More secure, if you care: download DBAN. Not sure that is officially secure either, because it lacks any bureaucratic certification of secure-ness. But it is the officially secure algorithm.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 10% ?

        I would like to see even TLAs recover stuff from a disk overwritten by this method - as long as it's magnetic and not shingled. Read from /dev/urandom to make doubly sure.

        Now, hybrid and SSDs I'm not so sure.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re: 10% ?

      >> "Out of the 200 used HDDs and SSDs, only 10 per cent had a secure data erasure method performed on them."

      > I'm surprised that 10% had been properly erased. I figured that number wouldn't be any higher than 1%

      It's worse than that. From the article "Two in five of the drives (36 per cent) showed evidence of an attempt to delete data" which means that 3 out of 5 were *sold* - not thrown away - sold with the data intact.

      1. Magani
        FAIL

        Re: 10% ?

        "Two in five of the drives (36 per cent) ...'

        I suspect someone wasn't paying attention to their Grade 2 teacher during the arithmetic period.

        "Four out of ten, SEE ME!"

    4. herman

      Re: 10% ?

      Considering how many people on IT related web sites always suggest using dban, shred, dd and other utilities that don't work properly since they don't erase data between tracks or in bad sectors, I am surprised that that 10% were done right.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: "don't work properly"

        Thing is, you need an order of magnitude greater skills to get data out of those areas, and probably you are looking at a tiny fraction of what was once stored on the HDD.

        Deleted via recycle bin? Piss-easy to get back.

        Formatted? Not too hard if standard structure used and/or you use a scanning tool looking for recognisable data (word doccuments, JPEG images, etc)

        Overwritten with zeros? Damn hard without low-level HDD access below the usual SATA command set (possibly even custom forensics hardware & software).

        Physically destroyed with thermite? No chance.

        Considering the effort and possible desire to get some 2nd hand value/use, simply doing a full disk wipe or using the "secure erase" option is plenty good enough.

  4. Karl Vegar
    Flame

    Maybe this is a bit squewed..

    Anyone willing to sell old drives might not have the sharpest IT dept.

    I can nearly understand old drives, that had been part of a raid5 setup,, and that have been low level formated being sold alongside a server, if that is the only way to shift the old ... iron.

    Otherwise, I thought storing the old drives for a time, untill one can arrange for a physical og magnetinc solution was standard procedure.

    Personally, I'd go for thermite, but for some reason my boss won't let me. (Something about fire and / or environmental hazard in a the middle of the city...)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Magentic solution will destroy the drive as it'll wipe the all important servo data (which may or may not be desired), physical which destroys the platters is preferred and, weirdly, thermite isn't actually that effective (there are videos showng the residue being wiped off the platters) unless you're lucky/careful to place it right.

      By far the best way is shredding.

      But the IT dept trainee can't supplement his income if you make the disks unsaleable

    2. Nigel 11

      Physical destruction is best

      This will put the data beyond reach of anyone except a three-letter agency (and probably also the agencies).

      0. Make sure it's a magnetic disk not an SSD or hybrid

      1. Smash the electronics board with a hammer (probably optional, but satisfying).

      2. Drill several holes in the top of the HDA

      3. Put the disk in a tray and pour xxx-cola into one of the holes until the HDA is full, then more to cover it. (The multiple holes are to let the air / gas vent).

      4. Leave overnight to dissolve the magnetic domains off the platters. (You know what it does to a tooth, right? )

      5. Throw it away.

      For an SSD you need an incinerator. (Or a decent bonfire, and utter disregard for the anti-pollution regulations).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Physical destruction is best

        You forgot firing it into orbit on a SpaceX rocket.

        Then blowing it up with ground-based lasers.

        1. Efros

          Re: Physical destruction is best

          Nuke it from space... It's the only way to be sure.

          Mine's the anorak...

        2. PNGuinn
          Mushroom

          Re: Physical destruction is best

          "You forgot firing it into orbit on a SpaceX rocket."

          As long as you tape it to the bit that returns with heat resisting masking tape and wait for a long distant return ...

  5. Josh 14

    I still remember being a bit miffed when I learned that one of my old employers wouldn't allow reuse of old drives, and instead drilled holes through the drive platters before further mechanical mutilation.

    A friend worked for a Redmond IT company who actually requires mechanical shredding of all drives pulled out of equipment in certain areas.

    Either of those make content recovery a much more difficult prospect!

  6. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Formatting has two options

    The quick one just erases the index, the full one is supposed to overwrite all sectors with 0s and check the result for bad sectors.

    Now, I know nothing about data recovery, but I do seem to recall that so-called "secure erasers" do nothing more than write random 1s and 0s over all the file or disc contents multiple times. From what I've heard, those that do 10 rewrites are more secure than those that do 1 rewrite.

    Something to do with border magnetism or other.

    Fine.

    Could someone point me to a web page that gives a layman's view of what the risk is ? Because if you overwrite a byte with a 0, then a 1, I fail to understand how some genius hacker can possible find out that the proper data was initially 0.

    I'm stupid like that, but willing to learn.

    1. Nigel 11

      Hacking a disk that's been 100% written to zero.

      To get data off a disk that has been written to zero you need to hack at the hardware level.

      When you write to a disk the head is not always exactly centred on the track. Sometimes it is off a bit to the left, sometimes off a bit to the right. So there may be a smear of previous contents as a weak noisy signal, if you are able to command the head to offset to various normally non-commandable positions left or right of nominal centre, and pick up the analogue signal from the head for nonstandard processing rather than feeding it into the standard disk-read signal processor code.

      A three-letter agency might even have something like a large electron microscope to image the magnetic state of every square nanometer on a platter, and something like an image-processing system to decode it.

      If you write multiple garbage patterns the chances of any off-centre data remaining goes down. I imagine each pass trashes about half of what was left by the previous one.

      There is also whatever is left on the bad blocks that were replaced during the disk's lifetime. You have to assess what is the chance of a random four kilobytes written at a random time in the past being of any interest, and what might the consequences be? I'd hope that a disk's firmware erases a bad sector before relocating it, but unless the manufacturer specifies that it does you should assume the worst.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hacking a disk that's been 100% written to zero.

        Might have been possible with large magnetic zones of the 80's/90's. Today -- well, definitely easier to do rendition to Assad's basement and just ask nicely.

        1. Nigel 11

          Re: Hacking a disk that's been 100% written to zero.

          definitely easier to do rendition to Assad's basement and just ask nicely.

          Unless the former owner of the PC was a suicide bomber, random bits of whom are now in a bucket in the morgue.

      2. Captain Badmouth

        Re: Hacking a disk that's been 100% written to zero.

        "When you write to a disk the head is not always exactly centred on the track. Sometimes it is off a bit to the left, sometimes off a bit to the right. So there may be a smear of previous contents as a weak noisy signal, if you are able to command the head to offset to various normally non-commandable positions left or right of nominal centre, and pick up the analogue signal from the head for nonstandard processing rather than feeding it into the standard disk-read signal processor code."

        That's what Gibson Research does with their spinrite utility.

        1. Seajay#

          Re: Hacking a disk that's been 100% written to zero.

          Maybe these methods will get some of the data back, maybe they once would have done but are unlikely to any longer. Given the level of competition between manufacturers over storage density, I suspect that if there is enough spare space to hold a redundant copy of the data on the drive some clever drive maker would have released a drive with the same hardware and double the capacity and made a fortune as a result. Now it's probably the case that such a drive would be absurdly unreliable but you can be sure that drive makers will be pushing as hard as they can up against that reliability limit. That necessarily means that at the bit level your recovery will be absurdly unreliable so you'll end up with a disk image where maybe 10% of the bits are correct but you have no idea which ones. That means that you've got pretty much zero chance of recovering anything which is compressed, slim chance of recovering binary formats like word docs, maybe a chance of recovering fragments of plain text files.

      3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        @Nigel 11

        "if you are able to command the head to offset to various normally non-commandable positions left or right of nominal centre, and pick up the analogue signal from the head for nonstandard processing rather than feeding it into the standard disk-read signal processor code"

        So you mean to say that I would have to have a disk reading apparatus specifically made for budging a disk head a (gnat's) hair's width further than it should on either side of the normal track, and have bespoke software ready to read and interpret weak signals that normal software would treat as noise. Failing that, I'd need to reprogram the firmware (or replace the command chip with something physically compatible that contains the proper code to do the job). Okay, to me that sounds like much more of a bother than what it can be worth.

        On the other hand, if you know that the disk contains data that could be worth tens of thousands of dollars on the market, then yes, somebody will obviously have done that (not counting the various spy agencies for which access to such material seems to be a basic requirement).

        All in all, not something your basic mom & pop operation really needs to worry about, right ?

        1. Captain Badmouth

          Re: @Pascall Monett

          "So you mean to say that I would have to have a disk reading apparatus specifically made for budging a disk head...?"

          Read Steve Gibson's explanation of his spinrite :

          https://www.grc.com/files/technote.pdf

      4. Alister

        Re: Hacking a disk that's been 100% written to zero.

        I don't know about multiple writes to zero, but I learned a salutary lesson some years ago when a friend of mine managed to do a clean install of windows 7 beta over his XP boot drive by mistake (he meant to install it on a separate drive).

        So the existing partitions had been removed, and then new partitions created, and the new O/S written to the drive.

        Despite that, with a piece of software called GetDataBack_NT which cost about $50, we were able to recover all of his previous partitions and data from that drive, and clone it to another drive, and boot it.

        Ever since then, I've been very careful not to assume that overwritten data can't be recovered.

    2. herman

      Re: Formatting has two options

      You load a special driver into the drive controller that shifts the servo off track by 25%, then read the data left over between the tracks.

      If you really want to erase a disk do this:

      # hdparm --security-set-pass user /dev/sdX

      # hdparm --security-erase user /dev/sdX

      That will overwrite the data over the whole disk surface, on the tracks and in between the tracks.

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