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Orlando shootings bring Facebook's safety check to US soil

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That's Nice

I agree safety check is nice, but these headlines about the first safety check in the U.S. seem to paint a sensationalist headline when none is warranted. I guess I'm not sure why Facebook doing anything related to a tragedy like this is "news".

Think about all the other things in the past that would have justified such a notice, had Facebook even existed at the time or had the system in place: 9/11, Hurricane Katrina/Rita/etc., The White Snake/Station Nightclub fire, etc...

Sh*t happens all the time, and it's nice that Facebook has this feature, but Facebook using this feature isn't news.

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Re: That's Nice

It's news because... we'll it's Zuck and FB, and they're being politically correct, possible terrorism, and..... hmm.... just ran out of "why's". If it had been a black guy shooting up a black night club in Chicago, feck all would be in the news. Or at least from what I see in the media here.

Edit: forgot this.... The FBI will probably be pushing for more snooping powers even though they've had this guy in custody for questioning several times. But.. you now.. terrorism.

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Re: That's Nice

No the FBI will be snooping on the victims and their friends - just in case any of them knew J Edgar.

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Hi victim count was caused by coconspirators

There was an online post that at least one, possibly all, of the the exit doors was barred from the outside, therefore at least one extra person, other than the shooter was involved.

I hope they find whoever the ones were who barricaded the exits and charge them as well.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hi victim count was caused by coconspirators

Exit doors are designed to be barred from the outside. It's when they are barred from the inside that you've got problems.

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Silver badge

Re: Hi victim count was caused by coconspirators

"There was an online post ..."

Do you believe everything you read in online posts?

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Megaphone

Re: Hi victim count was caused by coconspirators

>Do you believe everything you read in online posts?

Only when posted by friends of my cousins hairdresser. Very reliable source.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hi victim count was caused by coconspirators

There was someone with him when he bought the guns FBI and local Police are looking for them.

WFTV in the Orlando, FL area reported this.

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Unhappy

Re: Hi victim count was caused by coconspirators

It appears the some patrons escaping did block an exit door behind them, and have admitted that in TV interviews with the media -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuGSZAF-gWg

It may be that this is what has been interpreted as 'someone blocking the door to prevent escape' and has led to the multiple shooters and co-conspirator claims.

And the high victim count is partly because 30 people tried to hide in a toilet cubicle with nowhere to go, making themselves sitting ducks when the killer found them there. There was only one survivor.

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FB at VTech

I saw FB used for this purpose before they had the feature. My daughter was at Virginia Tech in 2007. The phone links going into Blacksburg were overwhelmed on that April morning; both mobile and landlines were unusable. Students on campus started updating their FB statuses every hour or so since they did have Inet connectivity. On the outside, we were getting news a couple of hours delayed, so we never knew whether our children were safe with each new revelation. I had to ask my company to un-block FB so I could check with my child; they never put the block back in. In a time of crisis, it is the little connections that make a big difference. We were lucky, we made contact with my daughter that evening but she had lost two acquaintances.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

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Terrorist Attack?

I noticed that the immediate "Kneejerk" reaction was terrorism without evidence to support it. Now as the waters calm, people are actually starting to question the terrorist angle and realise that possibly not every mass killing is a terrorist act. Some people are just full of hate and rage and have easy access to powerful weapons (especially in the US).

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Silver badge

Re: Terrorist Attack?

The "Kneejerk" reaction seems to have been based quite solidly on a statement Omar Mateen gave, at about the time he began shooting, to "law enforcement officials about further carnage, [in which he] claimed allegiance to the Islamic State and praised the Boston Marathon bombers" (reported in the New York Times). It is not unreasonably called terrorism given the apparent ideological/political connection.

That said, there has been for years an unfortunate tendency to use the term "terrorism" in ways so vague as to make it useless in defining or describing anything.

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Re: Terrorist Attack?

When you consider that every report is parroting the same story, that the shooter called 911 and pledged allegiance to ISIS and support for the Boston Marathon bombers, it seems somewhat reasonable to assume a terrorist attack. I grant it could be a well played faint but why?

If I had to guess this shooter took a page out of the playbook from the Paris attack about nine months ago. Fortunately he was alone and not patient or trusting enough to build up a group of associates. Typically in the US it's when they try building a network that gets the police tipped off so such individuals have to resort to these lone gunman assaults.

Getting rid of this silly religion thing world wide would go a long way to reducing the bloodshed on a global level.

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Re: Terrorist Attack?

The murderer was clearly and reportedly a deeply unhinged man. If it had not been a rabid form of Islam, he might have glommed onto any other form of rabid ideology, religious, political, whatever. That Islam contains a rabid pod within it there is no doubt, just as Christianity does (the white man who shot people dead in an abortion/family planning clinic was a Christian), just as any belief system does. Are those that set these up also insane? I could argue that they are, and that they serve as beacons for mentally-disturbed hate and rage that must and will have an outlet.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Terrorist Attack?

We are now seeing reports that the killer used to frequent the bar himself and used gay dating apps, which conveniently lends itself to the terrorist angle rather than being a hate crime.

There is a lot of oddness in this case, as there has been in other cases of "terrorism". A good many of which have involved some element of entrapment.

I am not saying people should believe claims of conspiracy theorists but some of the issues being raised do seem to be valid and difficult to answer. It seems we really aren't being told the full story.

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Re: Terrorist Attack?

"which conveniently lends itself to the terrorist angle rather than being a hate crime"

No, sounds more like self-loathing being projected on the innocent from someone who's culture demonises homosexuality. Same as right-wing Christian nutters do.

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Re: Terrorist Attack?

"It seems we really aren't being told the full story."

Or, more likely, no one knows. 24 hour rolling news and saturation in TV crime shows where the perp is always caught within 24 hours and all lose ends are tied up has bred a generation who thinks real life cases should be all neat and tied up quickly. It's not. I might take months to find out what probably happened. And we'll never know for sure because the only person who really knows what it was about is dead.

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Silver badge

Terrorism or not

Facebook or not. I am simply at a loss of words to describe the feelings

I have towards the deranged madman who could so easily open fire on a group of people. Hate seems so... lacking in strength.

The feelings I have for the victims and their families

and I hate myself for the feelings I have when I thank the <Deity>, I normally don't believe in that I was not in the middle this

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Anonymous Coward

Guns don't kill people....

.... oh, no , my bad - they do actually.

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Re: Guns don't kill people....

People kill people.

He could have just as easily blocked the exits and set the joint on fire.

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Re: Guns don't kill people....

People kill people, guns just make it a lot more easier and efficient.

Easy access to guns makes it common.

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WTF?

Re: Guns don't kill people....

"He could have just as easily blocked the exits and set the joint on fire."

At which point the sprinklers systems and fire extinguishers could be used. That and it take a lot of time and effort to do what you suggested.

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Re: Guns don't kill people....

Ah yes, so the number of gun deaths in the USA has nothing to do with the number of guns?

Sometimes satire is just too close to the truth:

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/12/america-hoping-tomorrows-mass-shooting-slightly-less-serious/

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Silver badge

Re: Guns don't kill people....

He could have just as easily...

I doubt anything is quite as easy as picking up a gun and putting a bullet in someone. Even kids find it easy enough to kill parents, themselves and each other. Guns are the perfect tool for the job.

Having watched YouTube footage of AR-15 rapid fire, achieving effective rates of 600 rounds per minute with little loss of targeting accuracy - though only in 10 second bursts with a 100 round clip, I can see why it may be the weapon of choice for those wanting to massacre people. It might not be a machine gun but it sits in the next best thing category along with AK47 and similar guns on sale to the public.

The "if we banned guns then killers would simply find some other way" argument is probably true of those determined to murder, but I would venture that most killings only happen because guns make it so easy to kill, requires little effort to actually kill. If one has a gun in the hand it is only a small step to pulling the trigger.

No, banning guns won't prevent murders, but it surely will reduce them.

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Alien

Re: Guns don't kill people....

No, banning guns won't prevent murders, but it surely will reduce them.

That's highly doubtful for the same reason(s) you already gave. Are "you" (plural) going to outlaw all the crowbars, pipes, boards, rocks, etc also? You do know the saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" right? Outlaws, by definition, do not care about the laws.

You cannot legislate morality and that's where the real problem is. Lack of moral training and enforcement by parents is the problem. Known as "Latchkey kids", they are left to their own devices. Depending on when their being left alone started, they may be very similar to those depicted in "Lord of the Flies". Don't forget about those with extreme control complexes they develop in an effort to try to maintain control in their chaotic lives. Those raised in abusive households also fall victim to this as they learn that the violence is the way to control what happens around them. Poor or rich, they are the same.

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Re: That's highly doubtful

It won't prevent all murders, would reduce the number of murders because its harder to kill many people in a short window with simple "secondary use" weapons. Restricting guns won't stop dedicated murderers but it makes it a bit harder to do, maybe gives the perpetrator cause to think twice, maybe gives the victim a more sporting chance to escape or defend themselves.

That is it in a nutshell.

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Vic
Silver badge

Re: Guns don't kill people....

He could have just as easily blocked the exits and set the joint on fire.

If he'd set a joint on fire, he'd probably have been far too mellowed-out to harm anyone...

Vic.

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Silver badge

Re: Guns don't kill people.... @Waldo Kitty

Man goes rogue with crowbar, kills 50 people. Really?

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Silver badge

Re: Guns don't kill people.... @Waldo Kitty

Timothy McVeigh managed to kill 168 and injure over 600 without firing a shot. Ramzi Yousef et al. killed 6 and injured over 1000. The list goes on and includes this twisted individuals "home boys" at the Boston Marathon. If we're lucky they'll stick with guns since the perpetrators often die in a shootout at the end where bombers tend to walk off free to repeat the performance.

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Anonymous Coward

Safety Check

Perhaps Facebook should start a service for the ATF called Safety Check to help detect lunatics that are attempting to buy firearms. Seems infinitely more useful than a system to allow their users - err products - to notify friends and loved ones that they are okay after the lunatic has run his course. Particularly since most of the products already have that handy communication device called a mobile phone.

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i have composed a lament for all those affected by the shootings:

https://youtu.be/uxF19_zSJEA

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Silver badge

A fine gesture.

But what about the other victims of 10,000 gun murders which happen every year in America, the 100,000 who are shot?

On an average day, and perhaps on the day of the Orlando killings, 30 other people will have been killed and 300 shot. It is all too easy to forget the innocent individuals and their family's loss.

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Silver badge

Can you say "Chicago"? Certain activist groups get all testy if you bring that city's murder rate up and the population a) being killed and b) doing the killing. Seems they get all testy if a cop kills but stay very silent when it's the folks in their own neighborhood doing the killing.

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Alert

Profiting from Disaster

I think it's alarming that a company whose main function is gathering personal data to sell to the highest bidder is involving itself in a critical national disaster event.

It leaves the impression the corporation is forcing it's way into government operations with a so-called safety check while the ultimate purpose is still to make money.

Corporate profiteering from mass deaths and tragedy should be condemned and outlawed, not praised.

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Silver badge

Re: Profiting from Disaster

Maybe this is something to make everyone feel good about FB? Or they've figured out a way to monetize the "alerts"?

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