back to article Google-backed solar electricity facility sets itself on fire

A troubled heliostatic power station is set to hit the anti-renewables meme-factories, after misaligned mirrors set the tower on fire. The Google-backed, US$2.2 billion Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System generates power by focussing sunlight on boilers at the top of three 140-metre (439-foot) towers and using the …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Call Bond.

    Scaramanga has stolen the solex agitator again.

  2. frank ly

    Predicting Problems

    With all those mirrors, you'd have thought they'd have made a few extra ones and covered the 'delicate' parts of the towers with a reflective surface, precisely for this fault situation.

    1. Dwarf
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Predicting Problems

      Surely that just moves the problem to somewhere else, like an outbuilding or neighbouring house, etc.

      Think of the halls of mirrors, it would be like Russian roulette, optical edition.

      Better software that has exclusion zones for places the power can't go would be a more robust solution

      1. RIBrsiq
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Predicting Problems

        >> Surely that just moves the problem to somewhere else.

        Not if the mirrors -- if they can be made at all, note: they'd need to withstand much more intense, focused rays -- were angled to reflect mis-aimed beams upwards.

        Helicopter icon because said reflected beams may still hit an unfortunate one in the wrong place by chance... Would make for a hell of a movie-plot threat, that: terrorists hacking the control systems of a solar power plant to burn passenger jets out of the sky and discredit the renewable energy industry to hasten the End of the World, etc.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Joke

          Re: Predicting Problems

          Maybe it was this way Google buildings were set afire...

          1. m0rt

            Re: Predicting Problems

            Imagine going nuts with a laser pen in there...

        2. Dwarf

          Re: Predicting Problems

          Up is somewhere else.

        3. Horridbloke

          Re: Predicting Problems

          "Would make for a hell of a movie-plot threat..."

          Die Hard From A Nasty Sunburn.

        4. Stoneshop
          Boffin

          Re: Predicting Problems

          Helicopter icon because said reflected beams may still hit an unfortunate one in the wrong place by chance..

          Even if all of the primary mirrors (the ones that focus the sunlight on the top of the tower) were misaligned and hitting a safeguard mirror (one that is intended to reflect a beam that would otherwise hit a part of the tower that's not meant to be hit), the result would be a beam spreading out from that safeguard mirror. At double the height of the tower the beam would then be spread out over an area equal to the area covered by the mirrors on the ground, and the intensity of the reflected light at that point would be not more than the intensity of the sunlight itself, but from below instead of from the sky. The only caveat being the safeguard mirror being able to withstand the energy absorbed by it.

          Simple optics, really.

          And blasting a jet out of the sky would need the mirrors to track it for minutes. Pretty infeasible given the speed with which those mirrors move; not that that would bother a Hollywood script writer.

          1. 100113.1537

            Re: Predicting Problems

            "And blasting a jet out of the sky would need the mirrors to track it for minutes. Pretty infeasible given the speed with which those mirrors move; not that that would bother a Hollywood script writer."

            Have you watched any Hollywood movies lately? This is way more feasible than most plots.

            1. Stoneshop

              Re: Predicting Problems

              Have you watched any Hollywood movies lately?

              Actually, no. Last one was a Jordanian movie, and the one before that was Mønti Pythøn ik den Hølie Gräilen. Before that, I have no frigging idea, it was that long ago

          2. Chris Evans

            Re: Predicting Problems. Convex?

            Having a safeguard mirror that was slight convex in one or both axis would distribute the light over an even larger area.

            But the main problem would be the necessary area that would need safeguarding, it would include a lot of the tower structure as cables will be running all the way down the tower. This would significantly increase the weight and the wind resistance requiring a stronger tower. Sensitive parts near the designed 'light collection' point should though be protected.

            There could also be a system that checks the main collector is getting the light level expected and set off an alarm if not, Also it could unfocus the beam if not corrected within an appropriate time scale.

        5. dajames

          Re: Predicting Problems

          Not if the mirrors -- if they can be made at all, note: they'd need to withstand much more intense, focused rays -- were angled to reflect mis-aimed beams upwards.

          ... or if those mirrors were made convex, so that they would defocus the beams making them (relatively) harmless.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Predicting Problems

      We've been melting salt with solar for decades. The "aiming" tech is well known. The gootard-backed company is obviously incompetent when it comes to this technology.

    3. Adam 1

      Re: Predicting Problems

      Surely a far simpler solution would be to lower the shutters over the mirrors. I should patent the idea. Except it is probably what they actually did. I know, on a mobile device ....

      1. Bob H

        Re: Predicting Problems

        It was a misalignment, so some of the mirrors that reflect light were off-point and no one noticed until it was too late.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: Predicting Problems

          Quite likely. However with this kind of engineering and design the default position and/or configuration should be "safe", which is the general requirement for many industrial systems. Any lack of power or "incident" response should return the mirror to a default "safe" state (good luck with this on a power loss scenario). Part of this was probably in place, however automatic monitoring systems in the tower should have triggered an "incident" alert and all or some of the mirrors should have switched to a safe alignment automatically. Now implement this to a very strict build and maintenance budget...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Predicting Problems

            "Safe alignment"? That would be due North, or face-down. That would require far greater range of motion than normal operation...

            1. Cynic_999

              Re: Predicting Problems

              "

              Safe alignment"? That would be due North, or face-down

              "

              I believe the usual method is to move each mirror to a pre-set different direction, ensuring that no matter what direction the Sun is, they cannot reflect in the same direction.

              1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

                Re: Predicting Problems

                The mirror(s) pointing upward would be safe, too. (See post above. Okay, sunglasses wouldn't hurt.) This could be achieved by adding a counterweight - in case of power failure all mirrors tilt upward thanks to gravity. If one or several mirrors stop tracking correctly, pull the plug on them - mirrors tilt upwards.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Predicting Problems

            "Any lack of power or "incident" response should return the mirror to a default "safe" state"

            Quite. What bunch of presentation-layer-pillocks designed this setup.

            "good luck with this on a power loss scenario"

            Thanks for the luck, but maybe what might be more useful is a big battery or even an actual generator, supplying a dedicated and possbly duplicated distribution setup for the critical equipment. And a regular test routine, just in case. A bit like the shutdown systems used to have on an oil rig (I haven't looked for ages, don't know if they still do).

            "automatic monitoring systems in the tower should have triggered an "incident" alert and all or some of the mirrors should have switched to a safe alignment automatically. "

            Indeed.

            But then the safety critical software sector has only been around since (say) the 1960s when the first full authority digital engine controls (with no analogue backup) arrived (Concorde?).

            Google probably specified the use of Agile and Android rather than Ada (not that Ada is a panacea).

            So much to forget, so little time.

      2. Stoneshop
        Holmes

        Re: Predicting Problems

        Surely a far simpler solution would be to lower the shutters over the mirrors.

        A sprinkler system at the top of the tower, but spreading mud* instead of water. If it needs to work in case of power loss it should be driven by a bunch of cylinders with compressed air.

        * or see icon.

        1. Adam 1

          Re: Predicting Problems

          > If it needs to work in case of power loss it should be driven by a bunch of cylinders with compressed air

          Yeah, it's not a PV array. The tower already contains thousands of L of superheated stream because, you know, it's kinda how the whole contraption actually works. Pretty sure they can figure out a way of converting some of that energy.

          A spring loaded (or even gravity dropped) shutter could cut the power entirely within seconds for relatively little cost. Both could be passively activated.

  3. msknight

    Archimedes would be proud

    ...so would Darwin. Shame they don't win an award this time around.

    Not that I hate Google, or anything, you understand.... much...

  4. Youngdog

    Our old enemy - the Sun!

    (shakes fist at the sky) Grrr. Damn you!

    1. Stoneshop
      Coat

      Re: Our old enemy - the Sun!

      They've been borged by Oracle since some years; not that they are less of an enemy anyway.

      The one with the pockets bulging with orange DEC RDB binders.

  5. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Mirror misalignment

    That some mirrors were misaligned is one thing, that cables were able to be exposed in the first place is another.

    Couldn't they have put a barrier around the cables to ensure that a stray concentration would just hit concrete instead of something flammable ?

    1. Killing Time

      Re: Mirror misalignment

      It does appear there are some design issues which need to be worked out. This would probably explain why they are not achieving their supply commitments, that requires reliability over and above achieving 'capacity'.

      It is a little concerning as they are not the first entry into this generation technology.

  6. Charles 9

    Supply commitments?

    Sure, 100,000 homes sounds dandy...until you realize that according to the 2010 Census, Los Angeles County has 12 million homes...by itself. And California is the largest state in the union population-wise AND has another major metropolis further north in San Francisco, where conditions for renewable power generation are less ideal (at least Los Angeles is close to a desert).

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. FlashJackFromGundagai

        Re: Supply commitments?

        Here is the future of renewable energy... http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/germanys-green-energy-destabilizing-electric-grids/ !

        1. cyberdemon Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Closing nuclear in favour of coal..

          Is beyond retarded.

          For a start, if it's radioactive waste you're concerned about, then the stuff that comes out of coal stacks is actually very radioactive as well, possibly dirtier than nuclear waste. Per GWh, I expect it's even worse for coal.

          That's not even counting all the other nasties that come out of burning coal (carcinogenic nanoparticles, exotic hydrocarbons, sulphur, never mind the CO2) and the kind of coal that Germany has (lignite) is the worst of the worst for all of these.

          So let's all build Biomass power plants & burn trees imported on from South America on Diesel boats. That sounds like a better idea Eh?

          Seriously though, the real trouble with nuclear is that nobody will define a "safe limit" for radiation. (A sensible level might be the background levels in naturally high-background areas such as Cornwall, where people have thrived for centuries) (cue Cornish jokes). Instead, we have "ALARA" and the "Linear No-Threshold Model" which make the assumption that any release of radioactivity, however small (even 100s of times below the background level) is going to harm *something*, and that ANY measure to reduce it, however expensive, is *legally* mandated. This only applies to the "nuclear" sector of course, and if the fossil fuels sector were held to the same standard then they would be just as expensive as Nuclear.

          I find it odd that people are more afraid of "safe" things going wrong than "unsafe" things operating normally (i.e. killing people every day). "So&So was killed in a plane crash? OMG WTF I WILL NEVER FLY AGAIN!!!1" "So&So died in a car accident? MEH! Cars Do That."

          I can only assume it's a "fear of the unknown" thing, and that until the general population become nuclear physicists, everyone who isn't will always fear this invisible yet eminently detectable poison.

          The nice thing about nuclear power is that all the waste is nicely contained in one place, which makes it easy to clean up (contrast to fossil fuels where its spread all over the flipping atmosphere). And the nice thing about radioactive waste is that it is detectable from a mile off, making it easy to spot. But therefore a nightmare for OCD sufferers perhaps?

          ** DISCLAIMER: I DO work in the nuclear sector, although not in Fission Power. I work on Remote Handling robots that clean up all the Sperm Germs that everyone is so afraid of **

      2. Charles 9

        Re: Supply commitments?

        "When an article says "power for 'x' homes", it means it makes 'x' times 3kW or so. (in this case, 2.8kW) This power will not power the heating system, so the house's heating needs to be 'powered' some other way."

        For a place like LA County, it's the cooling, and for LA County that's saying something since they have pretty intense cooling needs: torrid climate, frequent heat waves, on the coast so it's moist heat that can't be sweated off easily, AND it's in a thermal inversion zone that traps the heat at ground level, keeping it from rising out of the way and allowing sea breezes from the Pacific to cool things down.

        1. Tom 7

          Re: Supply commitments? Cooling?

          Well they have gas fridges so why the hell not solar powered aircon? You could use the mirrors to shield the property too!

          1. Notional Semidestructor
            Pint

            Re: Supply commitments? Cooling?

            Tom7 said:

            "Well they have gas fridges so why the hell not solar powered aircon? You could use the mirrors to shield the property too!"

            Yes, Tom,

            Solar refrigeration does work - bit clunky so far, but it works, and with R707 (or similar)...

            see: http://www.energy-concepts.com/_pages/app_isaac_solar_ice_maker.htm

            We have a historic kero-powered 'fridge in my shed - it contains beer.

            Now, where's that big fresnel lens?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Supply commitments?

          For a place like LA County, it's the cooling, and for LA County that's saying something since they have pretty intense cooling needs: torrid climate, frequent heat waves, on the coast so it's moist heat that can't be sweated off easily, AND it's in a thermal inversion zone that traps the heat at ground level, keeping it from rising out of the way and allowing sea breezes from the Pacific to cool things down.

          Ban aircon. People will quickly move somewhere more sensible.

        3. Florida1920

          Re: Supply commitments?

          For a place like LA County, it's the cooling, and for LA County that's saying something since they have pretty intense cooling needs:

          Maybe the smartest move is to move LA? If the planet is heating up for whatever reason, insisting on living in increasingly inhospitable environments makes no sense.

          1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

            Re: Supply commitments?

            "Maybe the smartest move is to move LA?"

            That'd get my vote... The Alaskan Riviera should do very nicely.

            BTW: The Toasters - Weekend In LA

          2. Stoneshop

            Re: Supply commitments?

            Maybe the smartest move is to move LA?

            San Andreas could help there.

      3. MacroRodent

        Re: Supply commitments?

        Even a worst-case accident in a solar power plant will not leave the surrounding are contaminated for centuries.

        But actually I pretty much agree about nuclear power. In *competent hands* modern nuclear power plants are quite safe. The problem is, running them really requires a culture with a strict work ethic, and fanatical focus on quality. And don't build them in tectonically unstable places, or next to a tsunami-ridden ocean...

        1. Adam 52 Silver badge

          Re: Supply commitments?

          "But actually I pretty much agree about nuclear power. In *competent hands* modern nuclear power plants are quite safe."

          Who would those competent hands be? Not the Americans, not the Japanese, not the Russians and not the British, Swiss, Germans or French. Or are we defining "modern" as "since the last known flawed design"?

          Nuclear power might be the answer and the risk appropriate but it flys against all the evidence to call it safe.

          1. MacroRodent

            Re: Supply commitments?

            There have really been just two disasters with catastrophic effects, Chernobyl and Fukushima, both in quite old plants. Oh, and one rather inconsequential one, Three mile island, which killed nobody. New plants really are inherently safer, a a response to concerns raised by the problems. At least in Chernobyl the safety culture seems to have been questionable. Experimenting on a live reactor so that safety systems are intentionally disabled?! At least nobody will try a that again. Fukushima was the victim of a natural disaster, but the plant was not sufficiently prepared for the double whammy of an earthquake and tsunami, in a part of the world where such are known to occur. Maybe we just should not put nuclear power plants in earthquake-prone regions.

            1. cyberdemon Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: Supply commitments?

              > There have really been just two disasters with catastrophic effects, Chernobyl and Fukushima

              Chernobyl was a catastrophe. Fukushima was a catastrophe in terms of the PR it caused (e.g. Frau Merkel's knee-jerk) but in every other sense I think it was a triumph for nuclear safety.

              Like you say it was an old design and was not built to withstand a double fault (modern nuclear plants & their safety systems are built to "SIL 4", which requires being able to cope with and immediately diagnose two simultaneous independent faults - more onerous than you might imagine..)

              Fukushima was smashed by a "natural" tsunami that killed 10,000s, and made 100,000s homeless. In spite of this the nuclear plant itself has killed nobody. Not one of the "Fukushima 50" who went in to stabilise the plant expecting to die, has died yet. But we have almost forgotten about the tsunami.

              Yet people are killed in ordinary "industrial accidents" every day, especially in the "third world", although three were killed (IN BRITAIN!!) demolishing an old coal plant down the road from me at Didcot a few months ago.

              When people tell me that Chernobyl or even Fukushima were the worst industrial disasters mankind has known, I like to remind them of Bhopal.

              But I suppose that happened in a part of the world we don't care about. :@

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Supply commitments?

                "Fukushima was a catastrophe in terms of the PR it caused (e.g. Frau Merkel's knee-jerk) but in every other sense I think it was a triumph for nuclear safety."

                Rubbish. The tsunami closed Fukushima down, but it should either already have had additional protective measures to mitigate known risks (additional to those originally incorporated into the design), or have already been closed down *because* of the additional known risks. It was a *disaster* in the sense that it showed nuclear regulation in Japan wasn't working - the additional risks had been simply ignored, as had TEPCO's unsatisfactory operational practices.

                TEPCO had already had their wrists slapped by the (ineffective) regulator on a number of occasions, for things including neglecting the scheduled maintenance of the diesel powered backup generators.

                It was already known that Fukushima was at excessive risk of sea water overtopping the sea defences (the walls were unrealistically low), and it was also known that when that happened, the station would likely be uncontrollable (no incoming electricity, backup generators inoperable due to sea water - the backup generators were at low level, etc).

                There's more but ICBA. A much longer writeup can be found at

                http://carnegieendowment.org/files/fukushima.pdf - extract below.

                These things could have been properly addressed. To do so would have cost money, but not lives. Therefore they weren't properly addressed. See any problem with that?

                "At the time of the accident, critical safety systems in nuclear power plants in some countries, especially in European states, were—as a matter of course— much better protected than in Japan. Following a flooding incident at Blayais Nuclear Power Plant in France in 1999, European countries significantly enhanced their plants’ defenses against extreme external events. Japanese operators were aware of this experience, and TEPCO could and should have upgraded Fukushima Daiichi.

                Steps that could have prevented a major accident in the event that the plant was inundated by a massive tsunami, such as the one that struck the plant in March 2011, include:

                • Protecting emergency power supplies, including diesel generators and batteries, by moving them to higher ground or by placing them in watertight bunkers;

                • Establishing watertight connections between emergency power supplies and key safety systems; and

                • Enhancing the protection of seawater pumps (which were used to transfer heat from the plant to the ocean and to cool diesel generators) and/or constructing a backup means to dissipate heat.

                Though there is no single reason for TEPCO and NISA’s failure to follow international best practices and standards, a number of potential underlying causes can be identified. NISA lacked independence from both the government agencies responsible for promoting nuclear power and also from industry.

                In the Japanese nuclear industry, there has been a focus on seismic safety to the exclusion of other possible risks. Bureaucratic and professional stovepiping made nuclear officials unwilling to take advice from experts outside of the field. Those nuclear professionals also may have failed to effectively utilize local knowledge. And, perhaps most importantly, many believed that a severe accident was simply impossible.

                In the final analysis, the Fukushima accident does not reveal a previously unknown fatal flaw associated with nuclear power. Rather, it underscores the importance of periodically reevaluating plant safety in light of dynamic external threats and of evolving best practices, as well as the need for an effective regulator to oversee this process."

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Supply commitments?

                Your argument that the nuclear accidents at Chernobyl and Fukushima are not all that serious is disingenuous for an obvious reason. Unlike explosions or extremely poisonous chemicals, radiation kills slowly (unless it is extremely high), which means that there is usually sufficient time to evacuate the population near an accident site. There are few direct health casualties precisely because of the evacuation and precautions to limit exposure. It is perverse to then claim that the problem is exaggerated because so few people die!

                That does not mean there are no casualties of a different sort: large areas are rendered uninhabitable for very long periods of time and there are substantial financial and personal losses, especially if the site is near high population densities, or near food production areas.

                1. Alan Brown Silver badge

                  Re: Supply commitments?

                  "Unlike explosions or extremely poisonous chemicals, radiation kills slowly (unless it is extremely high), "

                  With that statement you prove you know nothing about how radiation exposure works.

                  Cornwall, the Dales and Helsinki aren't dead zobes.

                  Nor have aircrew been dying in numbers greater than the general population. Yet millions of them have been exposed to far higher levels than fukushima and most of the chernbyl exclusion zone for more than 50 years.

                  (It's also witth noting thathat cancer rate in nagasaki and hiroshima since 1947 are a whole 0.2% higher than would be "normal".)

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Supply commitments?

                    ""Unlike explosions or extremely poisonous chemicals, radiation kills slowly (unless it is extremely high), "

                    With that statement you prove you know nothing about how radiation exposure works."

                    No, actually that statement is entirely true. The likelihood of adverse health effects from radiation depends very much on cumulative exposure to radiation, i.e. total radiation exposure over time, and when it does occur, death occurs much later than the actual exposure. The fact that health authorities set the threshold for acceptable exposure lower than perhaps they need to is different matter, but perhaps not inconsistent with safety margins for other situations (we don't build bridges with small safety margins either). And there is a reason why they are conservative: we are still learning what the effects are. For example: http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/04/11/11greenwire-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-cast-long-shadows-over-99849.html?pagewanted=all

            2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: Supply commitments?

              >Maybe we just should not put nuclear power plants in earthquake-prone regions.

              Like California ?

        2. Van

          Re: Supply commitments?

          Funny how these 'competent hands' can not for the life of them provide an accurate/honest cost for de-commissioning a nuclear site (the last ones increased 20- fold) or an accurate time-scale, again, obscenely longer than predicated.

          All we know is that our Grandchildren will likely be heavily taxed to pay for it. These are the real reasons for Nuclear hesitancy, we simply don't have the money to put aside. Also, if there should be a population implosion, not only will the extra energy not be needed, there wont be enough people left to tax. Last one out hit the 'off' button, then hope for the best.

        3. nijam Silver badge

          Re: Supply commitments?

          > Even a worst-case accident in a solar power plant will not leave the surrounding are contaminated for centuries.

          Nor will a nuclear plant accident, as we have now seen. Years, in bad cases, but centuries? That would be exaggerating to to point of propaganda.

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