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back to article German prof scores €2.4m EU grant to crack software on your bicycle

A computer science professor has landed a €2.4m EU research grant to crack open embedded software on... e-bikes. Holger Hermanns, of the University of Saarland, Germany, will investigate embedded software in batteries used in e-bikes, increasingly popular among City types. Hermanns chose e-bike batteries for “safety reasons …

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  1. Rol

    Ownership is highly contentious.

    If you don't own the software, for all practical purposes you don't own the hardware either.

    A physical switch to stop firmware updates bricking your hardware needs to become standard.

    And perhaps legislation that would prevent companies from obsoleting their own products, by introducing a compulsory auction of the software rights to products that they have failed to maintain.

    And yes, "I bid minus ten thousand pounds" would be a valid bid.

    13 0 Reply
  2. martinusher Silver badge

    You could set open standards

    What should happen that the software should adhere to a well defined, open, standard. Adherence to the standard is a prerequisite for getting product type certified and so capable of being sold.

    This is what happens when you ignore manufacturing. Someone else does it and they get control

    3 1 Reply
  3. Gordon 10

    bollocks

    This a programmers solution to a consumer rights issue. Mandating open software of open interfaces is not necessary if the law ensures the manufacturer cannot pull a fast one.

    3 3 Reply
    1. Captain DaFt
      Reply Icon

      Re: bollocks

      "Mandating open software of open interfaces is not necessary if the law ensures the manufacturer cannot pull a fast one."

      But the manufacturer is always ahead of the game, much like malware writers.

      Plug one hole and they immediately jump through another.

      The unfortunate result is that the one that took the short cut 'fast ones' to the top makes the easy bucks, and anyone else wishing to follow is snarled to near immobility in the maze of regulations that were enacted in its wake.

      2 0 Reply
  4. frank ly

    Use of money

    "... a €2.4m EU research grant to crack open embedded software on... e-bikes."

    Might it not be cheaper and quicker to hire 'consultancy' expertise (and sight of the source code) from the companies that make them?

    If the good Professor will be having influence over future standards and regulations, the manufacturers should be fighting each other to get to him first.

    1 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I challenge him to find a software vulnerability on my bike….

    … that prevents me from riding it.

    Yes, the radio and GPS have software in them, no they don't stop the bike from working as they've done since the Wright Brothers made them.

    0 3 Reply
    1. TeeCee Gold badge
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: I challenge him to find a software vulnerability on my bike….

      So you completely missed the whole "E-bike" thing in there then?

      6 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I challenge him to find a software vulnerability on my bike….

      I would start searching from inside your head. A hard days night or something.

      0 1 Reply
  6. PNGuinn
    Go

    I see your ... and I raise you

    SO - with a multimillion EU grant (which is why it's so important to vote remain, folks) [[JOKE ALERT]] he can see all that nonsense about popping the doors of a cheap and nasty 4 wheel chariot in flight along the motorway and raise us .....

    Publicly blowing the nads off a greenie.

    1 1 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    His team aims to develop a product called EnergyBus, which will ensure that electronic components such as batteries, sensors and chargers work together smoothly.

    I propose a new name "GravyTrain"

    I see some part of what they mean but I can't help but feel that a lot of this is all electronically controlled and doesn't go anywhere near the software other than for reporting numbers. I mean a battery and charger are not software controlled, voltage hits charge point, it stops charging, you don't need software for that or do you?

    2 3 Reply
    1. Julian Bradfield
      Reply Icon

      Last time I saw him (a few years ago now), he was working on wireless brake controllers. It's a very interesting exercise analysing the reliability of wireless brake controls, and computing that despite your natural horror at the idea, they're no more likely to fail than a brake cable is to snap.

      2 0 Reply
      1. Oengus
        Reply Icon

        they're no more likely to fail than a brake cable is to snap

        but it is much easier for most people to inspect the brake cable to ensure it is in reasonable shape and unlikely to fail than to check electronic circuitry.

        1 0 Reply
      2. Vic
        Reply Icon

        they're no more likely to fail than a brake cable is to snap

        Whilst that might be true, it's a long, long time since any road car[1] had a single brake system. Braking systems are designed such that any single failure will leave you with a functional, if degraded, capability. So a brake cable snapping leaves you with brakes - is this true of the wireless replacement being touted?

        Vic.

        [1] I *think* I once had a car that had a single system. But I'm not certain - it was a while ago. That car was built in the early 1960s.

        0 0 Reply
      3. John Robson Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        "Last time I saw him (a few years ago now), he was working on wireless brake controllers. It's a very interesting exercise analysing the reliability of wireless brake controls, and computing that despite your natural horror at the idea, they're no more likely to fail than a brake cable is to snap."

        I'd suggest that the likelihood of either is dependant on maintenance.

        If you don't keep charging a wireless system it will fail catastrophically fairly quickly. This is particularly true of the 'actuator' end of the system.

        If you don't maintain a brake cable then after many years it will start to fray - it will get harder to apply the brakes, and eventually one of them will fail - but by that stage most people with that little mechanical sympathy will have taken the bike to their bike shop for new pads.

        It's easier to get a cable to snap if you manage to set it up very badly of course...

        Then he omits to mention hydraulics...

        I wouldn't trust wireless brakes on a push bike - but it's not just the 'wireless' bit that concerns me, it's the extra batteries. And with wireless you can always jam a signal - which in this case would presumably put the brakes on full, inevitably causing a face plant for anyone on an upright bike...

        1 0 Reply
    2. Ru'
      Reply Icon

      I'd say most chargers for li-po etc. batteries (and even for older types) are software controlled these days. It's much easier/cheaper to include a microcontroller than do it with passive components/logic gates.

      That goes for many seemingly simple electronic devices these days.

      1 0 Reply
  8. Oengus

    Its a bike...

    batteries control vital functions such as brakes and electronic suspension

    What is a "pushbike" doing with electronic brakes and suspension... ITS A PUSHBIKE...

    2 1 Reply
    1. Kubla Cant
      Reply Icon

      Re: Its a bike...

      Actually, it's an electric bike. It presumably requires assistance from an electric motor because the batteries, motor, electronic suspension and brakes make it too heavy for human propulsion.

      1 1 Reply
      1. John Robson Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Its a bike...

        There are broadly two classes of electric bike.

        One is legally a pedal cycle (no special clothing, no VED, no registration) and the other is basically an electric motorbike.

        Some places on the continent blur the lines slightly with mopeds and the rules around those vary - but technically you ought to be able to pedal those (not that you would want to)

        1 0 Reply
  9. Christian Berger

    Such projects often end up in desasters

    We have seen that with projects like Kamailio (formerly known as SIP Express Router) which try to solve a simple problem and end up being complex monsters.

    What we'd need is simple standards. They don't need to be "perfect", but they have to be good enough to make the things simple everyone needs.

    0 0 Reply
  10. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Right. Standards.

    1 0 Reply

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