back to article Want to kick butts? Go cold turkey

Those attempting to give up smoking have a better chance of success if they quit "abruptly", rather than attempting a "gradual cessation". That's the conclusion of a study of 697 adult English smokers with "tobacco addiction", who either went cold turkey or "reduced smoking gradually by 75 per cent in the 2 weeks before …

Page:

  1. Alister

    So neither of the groups were better than 23% successful in quitting, then, or am I misunderstanding?

    1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

      Long odds

      That's correct. The odds are clearly against quitting.

      1. Alister

        Re: Long odds

        Good thing I don't want to quit then, eh...

      2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Re: Long odds

        The odds are clearly against quitting.

        Too ****ing right! It was 11 years from the time when I first tried to the time when I actually succeeded, and it was probably the related health scare that did the business.

        I did know one guy who quit smoking with no withdrawal problems whatsoever. However, I wouldn't recommend his technique because it involved being unconscious in intensive care for several weeks, by which time the nicotine addiction had vanished.

        1. Graham Marsden
          Happy

          Re: Long odds

          Good job I never started then.

          (There's an advantage to being the geeky kid at school, you don't tend get into the sort of peer group that thinks smoking is cool)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Coat

          Re: Long odds

          was that voluntary? I have heard of a similar technique tried for Class A drug addiction - if not I'll get me coat

      3. ZSn

        Re: Long odds

        My father smoked 80 a day for 25+ years before quitting, he tried everything, cigars, pipes (this was the advice in the 60s remember) only cold turkey worked. Though he did say that he still felt like smoking nearly 40 year later. One thing that sticks in my mind was his comment that the first ten years of cold turkey were the worst.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Long odds

          that the first ten years of cold turkey were the worst.

          If you are smoking 20+ a day it takes ~ 7 years for all cravings to go away.

          I also tried the lot - pipe, cigars, etc by the way. They are not helping - just another (similarly unhealthy) way to get your fix.

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Bollocks

      It took me a year of patches and gum to drop to a point where I could cold turkey. I tried several times before that and I could not last more than a few days.

      I was smoking more than a pack a day though. Based on personal experience, going cold turkey is nearly impossible until you have dropped the nicotine dose to less than an equivalent of 5-10 cigs a day. If you are smoking a pack and a half - dream on.

    3. Captain DaFt

      "So neither of the groups were better than 23% successful in quitting, then, or am I misunderstanding?"

      Sounds about right. Quitting smoking is the easiest thing in the World. I know people that've quit several times.

      The hard part is staying quit.

  2. inmypjs Silver badge

    Quitting is easy

    I've done it loads of times.

    1. PhilipN Silver badge

      Re: Quitting is easy

      Flush the up votes. This is an unattributed quote from Mark Twain

      1. inmypjs Silver badge

        Re: Quitting is easy

        "This is an unattributed quote from Mark Twain"

        No it isn't. If you want to be arsey it helps to be right first.

        1. Steven Raith
          Thumb Up

          Re: Quitting is easy

          Unattributed quote or not, all of us smokers, ex smokers and vapers know it, and love it.

          Keep the upvotes.

          Steven "constantly steals from Douglas Adams" R

  3. Steven Raith

    Everyone in the study used NRT

    ...according to one of the authors so not cold turkey as you'd commonly understand it.

    It just shows that quitting gradually has less chance of success than choosing a firm date (and using whatever treatment works best for you - NRT, e-cigs, pure strength of will, etc), something that's well known already.

    Current best way to stop appears to be e-cigs and support of a stop smoking service, although dozens of anecdotes I've witnessed suggest that wanting to stop, and using decent quality e-cigs (not cigalikes, but good starter kits like Innoken T18s, a Nautilus and a suitable battery etc) is generally a pretty easy way to get there, professional support or not.

    Steven R

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

      E-cigs worked for me, but as you say a proper kit not the stupid cigarette-a-likes. I started with a Joytech eGo oneXL which really opened me up to the possibilities, then have moved up to a Siggelei 150w temeprature controlled device, with Kangertech tanks... Also found some amazing flavours and now I actually do not like the taste of cigarettes anymore, and the biggest bonus is being to do it inside (at home and most pubs etc). Haven't smoked since August.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

        Similar story here - not been a smoker for two years now, thanks to e-cigs ( currently a Kangertech Aerotank Mega 2 - £20 from Amazon including 1900mah battery ).

        I now smoke cigarettes occasionally on a Saturday night with a drink, like non-smokers have the occasional cigar.

        I know people who's failed to switch to e-cigs. I can only imagine they were using them wrong such as heavy usage every hour ( like you would have a full fag in one go ).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

          Amazon? Lol noob. It's all about Fast tech

      2. Steven Raith

        Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

        I've been off the tabs for almost exactly four years now.

        Started on a Joyetech Ego T tank which compared to the stuff we have today, is atrocious (and is the level that Big Tobacco is at in terms of their devices - IE they're all shit). Currently using a Wismec Releaux RX200, and a Griffin rebuildable tank which is rather better.

        Tank contains: 2 x 9 3.5mm wraps of 316L stainless steel, wicked with Fiber Freaks cellucotton type stuff, filled with One Hit Wonder Milkman at 3mg. Running it in temperature control mode calibrated for SS316 (not 316L but the temperature curve is close enough as makes no differece) and it's really rather nice. I have a Nautilus for getting nicotine properly, but 3mg in the Griffin is fine for me.

        And, dear commentard (not AC obviously, as he knows), if your eyes just glazed over reading that, then yes, that's how most normals feel when we explain why strong security is needed, why we can't just make someone's computer go faster etc.;-)

        There's huge geek fun potential in these things. Short term, no-one has produced methodologically sound evidence of any serious harm*, and long term, there seems limited chance of it. The devices have been on the market for ten years - five years of serious use - so I'm pretty comfortable where I am with it at the moment.

        I could go on a monstrous rant about how the EU and many other governments worldwide seem to be Doing It Wrong when it comes to the proposed regulation of these devices, but I'll wait to riposte any questions that come up first, as I'll never cover everything.

        Steven "understands actual harm reduction" R

        *pretty much every study that shows any notable harm is hugely flawed and can't be reproduced when performed in a 'normal use case' scenario, as opposed to gaming the methodology to get the 'desired' result.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

          Kanthal is made of futuristic unicorn pubes, where as 316L is just leftover C-3PO shavings.

        2. frank ly
          Happy

          Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

          "Currently using a Wismec Releaux RX200, and a Griffin rebuildable tank which is rather better."

          Were you a Hi-Fi buff in the 80's? You just gave me a flashback to those days.

          1. Steven Raith

            Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

            No, and I'm not even one now - although I've been saying for about ten years that I really must get an AV amp, not that I need one.

            I am terribly geeky about the tech used in these things though; the market has shifted hugely, even the last couple of years (it wasn't that long ago that temperature control wasn't even a thing - now all non-starter level mods have it) so there's lots of innovation to follow.

            IE at the moment, temperature control is done by using a table linked to a 'curve' of resistance values that various metals - typically SS316 (or 304) stainless steel, nickel and titanium - possess. As you heat, say, a 0.1ohm Nickel coil, you can predict the resultant temperature of the wicking material by measuring the change in resistance as the wire heats up; so when it gets to 0.24ohm, you can say that the wicking is at 430degF. At 0.26ohm, it'd be 480degF; this changes how the vape feels, from cool, to warm, as you'd expect.

            This applies to the other aforementioned materials too, at differing rates of course - although some materials like Kanthal don't have this resistance flux to the same extent, so you can't do TC on them. It also involves having to set a 'base' resistance so that the device knows what the starting point is, which involves having to have the atomiser coil at room temperature, etc. It's a bit of a fiddle.

            This is fine for preventing dry-burning (which is what causes formaldehyde to be formed, and tastes utterly, utterly god-awful; you only do it a once or twice, it's bloody foul) but it's not really temperature control.

            Innoken are working on a new, multi-pin tank connector (the 510 used by almost all devices is literally only ground and power - nothing else) that can read the actual temperature of a coil via a thermocouple of some sort, mounted over the atomiser itself. It completely negates the need for special materials like NI200 or Ti1 to be used, as literally any material can have it's temperature controlled through the feedback loop the sensor provides, without having to calibrate to different resistance ranges, etc.

            And again, none of this existed even a couple of years ago, when a 20W device would cost you over £100. Now, 200W devices with temperature control are available for under £50 (sans batteries, natch).

            I love it, personally.

            Steven R

        3. Vic

          Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

          Short term, no-one has produced methodologically sound evidence of any serious harm

          Given the provenance of Nicotine and the known toxic effects, it would be a brave man that says there is no risk. But compared to everything else in a cigarette? It's clearly dramatically safer...

          Vic.

          1. Steven Raith

            Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

            Nicotine, in high enough doses, is damned nasty stuff.

            In the concentrations available in e-cigs, it's almost impossible to poison yourself; it's self titrating, which basically means once you have too much, you feel a bit wonky and you stop.

            Side effects are typically dizziness and nausea, which go away after a couple of minutes. People have tried to kill themselves with high strength e-liquid, and pretty much all they've done is vomit on themselves and stagger around for a bit...

            Remember, water is poisonous in the right dosage, too.

            My comment was more with regards to the methodology of the tests; IE the (in vaping circles) infamous formaldehyde scare; the test took a CE4-esque device and ran it at 5.2v which generated formaldehyde. Running it at lower power, the formaldehyde barely registered.

            Running a CE4 at 5.2v is like taking a brand new car, starting it, weighing the thottle pedal down with a brick and leaving it till it goes boom and crying about the car being unreliable; it's not a realistic usage model. For reference, running a CE4 type device at 5.2v makes it immediately dry burn, which tastes utterly, utterly foul. As I've said elsewhere, you know immediately when you've done it and you don't do it again.

            Curiously, when a group repeated the study with a sane, usage based methodology, they found that the bigger, sub-ohm devices released significantly lower aldehydes and whatnot; that is, sub-ohm tanks (and higher end mouth to lung devices, like the Nautilus etc) basically didn't make much in the way of nasties at all. And the sub-ohm tank, the one that makes the most vapour and people assume would be most likely to be dangerous, produced the least unpleasant artifacts.

            There is a metric fuckton of bad science in the e-cig world, most of it pushed by, ironically, the anti-tobacco lobby. You'd think they'd realise that if they want to stop people smoking lit tobacco, something that basically replicates the user experience of lit tobacco to a tee, but without the lit tobacco part (which is the most dangerous part) would be right up their alley. But nope, because it's not punishing smokers, it's not good enough.

            Beggars belief.

            Steven R

        4. ICPurvis47

          Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

          "Short term, no-one has produced methodologically sound evidence of any serious harm*" Bollocks!

          My father smoked all his life, and died horribly, painfully, and slowly from Emphysemia, his lungs turned to a black goo, and he was on oxygen for the last three miserable years of his life.

          If you want to see a good reason to give up, go visit someone like my Dad in the last stages of his suffering.

    2. Vic

      Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

      Current best way to stop appears to be e-cigs and support of a stop smoking service

      That depends on how you define "best".

      I know a few people that have used Champix. As an aid to stopping smoking, it is very effective - but beware the side-effects. This is not a drug to be taken if you live on your own...

      Vic.

      1. Bluto Nash

        Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

        Started using Chantix originally and it kinda helped, but only reduced the craving a bit. However, the subsequent heart attack and resultant four stents that were inserted allowed me to quit cold fill-in-name-of-meat-here the same night and I've never looked back.

        Can't say I recommend the method, but the results were both immediate and permanent for the last 4-5 years.

        1. Steven Raith

          Re: Everyone in the study used NRT

          What I like about vaping is that it tends to not require that level of, shall we say, involuntary encouragement, to just transfer off the fags to the vapour devices.

          It's not that you're being all sober about it. It typically starts with trying one for a giggle, liking it, buying one for yourself and just stopping buying fags.

          Far more fun than going to the doctors and being preached at. That's probably why they seem to be having so much success.

          Steven R

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Breaking news, quitting smoking is hard

    Quitting smoking is hard, who knew?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've been trying to quit for a long time, tomorrow is actually my next attempt and I shall be going full fat cold turkey. I smoke about 40 a day. My problem is that I don't find it difficult to stop so after a week or so I end up smoking again thinking it's easy to stop. I've read both Allen Carr books and can highly recommend them as a form of NLP that helps with the mental side. I've tried NRT but found that it felt I was just prolonging the inevitable plus patches are sod to light. Maybe I'll quit this time for good, who knows but I'll keep trying if I don't. I don't think e-cigs are a good idea because you see people that smoked 40 a day buying the biggest e-cigs you can hold and creating a smoke cloud a nuclear bomb would envy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You don't have to have a large e-cig, I just think it's more convenient because you've got more than a day's worth of liquid and battery without having to carry spares.

      The amount of nicotine is mainly based on which strength liquid you buy ( with 1.8% being the standard ).

    2. Steven Raith

      You don't need a massive e-cig to stop smoking, it can just get fun and become a bit of a hobby, that's all. I have lots of devices that can fog a room out in short order, but if I had to choose one, it'd be my diddly little Nautilus, running at a terrifying 12 watts, which doesn't make much vapour at all compared to say, a sub-ohm tank or a dripper.

      If you don't have any luck with cold turkey - and best of luck, seriosusly - drop £30 on a decent starter kit (Innoken Endura T18 is a decent option) and a flavour you think you'd like, and at 40 a day, I'd suggest 18mg liquid in a methol, not tobacco flavour. All tobacco flavours suck as they can't replicate the burning flavour, so why bother?

      A t18 Won't produce huge clouds, but it will feel (in terms of drag) and perform (in terms of vapour/cloud) like a normal ciggie, which is half the challenge.

      Steven R

      1. GregC

        decent starter kit (Innoken Endura T18 is a decent option)

        I'll second this, from personal experience - after trying one of the crappy cig-a-likes just to see if the whole e-cig thing would work for me, I ended up with a T18. That was over the xmas break, and it's been perfect for me - I haven't had a cigarette, or even really felt like having one, since - and for me that's been a massive deal. Until then I'd been on 20-30 a day for longer than I care to remember, and I can't see myself ever going back.

        For anyone who's struggled in the past to stop, and I've tried various things, I'd hugely recommend the (decent quality!) e-cig option.

    3. Alister
      Coffee/keyboard

      plus patches are a sod to light.

      You Bastard... :)

    4. Tachikoma
      Happy

      I'm one of those twonks you see blowing huge clouds with a massive battery box, let me explain why and it's not for show... well mostly not...

      I smoked heavily for years, got back into the dating game and realised that stinking of fags wasn't helping the chances of a spaghetti arm, neckbeard, IT nerd so decided to give e-cigs a try.

      I started on plastic cigalikes, didn't do anything for me, so upgraded to various expensive devices using 18mg liquid. It was horrible, the taste, the mouth ulcers, coughing, spilling liquid on your hands caused you to feel sick for hours, it was a nightmare, so I wandered into my local vape shop and asked what was the next and last option. Subtanks: lower ohm, higher wattage, lower nicotine, less PG which was irritating my chest but more "clouds" as a result. After previously reading up on "the best cigarette-like experience" and following various advice, I discovered I didn't want a lung ripping harsh high nicotine hit like it recommended, I wanted a warm, smooth, thick vapour, I could feel it in my lungs like a cigarette, I could see it when I exhale, it didn't give me mouth ulcers and didn't irritate my throat/chest.

      I wasn't huffing on my vape pen like a madman during my break anymore, I would just have a good couple of lungfulls and I was done, the nicotine is only half the problem, I think most people give up on e-cigs as cheap devices offer such a bad experience, I know I didn't get on with them and if it wasn't for me wandering into my local vape shop, I would be back on the cigs.

      People take the piss when they see me blowing big clouds, but that's fine, it keeps me off the fags, my 2 year old daughter doesn't say I stink anymore, it saves me money and will (hopefully, if I stop drinking) will add a few years to my life.

      Don't dismiss "cloud chasers" as a novelty thing, for some people it is the best solution they have found.

      1. Steven Raith

        I've found that I can happily hit zero nicotine, high VG liquids (or just plain VG from boots with a bit of 50/50, strong flavoured liquid in to add a touch of taste) most of the day and not mind that I'm getting effectively zero nicotine out of it.

        The physical feel of smoking - the pleasure principle - is probably at least as important as nicotine in these realms. But because there's never been the question to ask before (there were only lit tobacco options) no-one has done any tests to see how valid this actually is - because ciggies are bad, that's all you need to know.

        Sadly, as most of the interesting (and sound - IE testing the devices as they are used in normal conditions, not testing them to destruction in ways that would make a user vomit from the taste of burning wicks after just a couple of puffs) research is being assisted by either vape companies or is research done by tobacco companies (BAT recently tested their own e-cig, based on 1st gen tech, and found it had no real effect on lung cells and was basically as benign as filtered air, compared to fag smoke which fucked the cells) then the zealots cry 'it's a fix'.

        Rather than, say, trying to replicate the research and disprove it. Claiming shenanigans and strawmanning is far easier than actually doing science, after all.

        Steven R

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    We're logical people here...

    ...So we need a logical reward structure in place.

    Mine is this: for every cigarette or cigar I've never smoked, I'm allowed a large Gin and Tonic (always Fever Tree) whenever I want.

    It certainly works, because I've never smoked and therefore never had a 40-a-day habit, and this means I'm owed extra drinks to cover the period from when I was born to when I might've first tried a cigarette had I tried one. Which I haven't.

    Hope this is of help.

    1. Havin_it

      Re: We're logical people here...

      Unfortunately you have a nose like Rudolph and your liver is fucked!

  7. Velv
    Gimp

    They also received "behavioral support from nurses", which may or may not have included being handcuffed to a cast-iron bedstead at gunpoint.

    I've never smoked, but if they need someone to be in a control group just send me a message

  8. Graham Marsden
    Alert

    "behavioral support from nurses"

    There was a film "Cat's Eye" based on a Stephen King story which had a similar idea...

  9. IsJustabloke
    Megaphone

    The secret to giving up the toe rags...

    .. is A) You actually must want to give up, most people seem to do it because they feel its the right thing to do / are being nagged / think its too pricey rather than because they want to.

    and B) Just stop. No patches, no E-Cigs / vaping, no binge eating. Simply stop.

    I guarantee that anyone who fulfills both of these criteria will give up for good.

    I know 9 people myself included that stopped using this "method"

    People who use e-cigs have simply swapped one addiction for another (albeit a less harmful to the health one)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The secret to giving up the toe rags...

      I prefer the Sick boy method

      1. waldo kitty
        Thumb Up

        Re: The secret to giving up the toe rags...

        I prefer the Sick boy method

        i'm doing that right now... recovering from a week+ fever of 103F and no smoking inside... been smoking for 45 years... been down to 2 or 3 cigs a day unless adult beverages are involved which could then easily lead to 40 cigs in a few hours followed by several days of none at all... at this stage of sickness recovery, everything tastes nasty... that's what makes it even easier...

        this is not my first time to try to quit, though... the first time i quit, i walked the 2 miles to the store with my last $3US to get a pack... the store was already closed... very little traffic and a family run country store so they closed early... i did that for five days and said to hell with it... quit for a year...

        the next time i tried the patches... would have been successful if my appendix hadn't gotten in the way... while in the hospital, they would not let me have my patches... i was on the 3.5mg ones at that point... id10t doctor prescribed the 21mg patches very much against my wishes after i had asked for permission for my own patches... got out of the hospital more addicted and it was cheaper by ~$2US per day to just go back to smoking...

    2. GregC

      Re: The secret to giving up the toe rags...

      People who use e-cigs have simply swapped one addiction for another (albeit a less harmful to the health one)

      While this is undoubtedly true, I have tried various things (including the Just Stop option) and nothing has worked, the problem being with criteria A - I quite enjoy having a smoke, and therefore didn't really want to stop. In this scenario, e-cigs are the first alternative I have come across that actually works.

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: The secret to giving up the toe rags...

        @GregC - that, and e-cigs, as far as anyone has reliably ascertained, are about as dangerous to your health as a couple of strong coffees a day, or constantly chewing gum; IE fairly benign, and not something to worry about in the grand scheme of things; air pollution in towns is a far greater threat to health as far as we are aware.

        The addictiveness of nicotine by itself is also somewhat questionable, at least by the standards we think of (IE more addictive than heroin as is the often touted line) - double blind tests with patches showed no withdrawal symptoms from the tested subjects. Patches are a slow release system so that's not a perfect comparison by any means, and inhalation delivers the nicotine to the brain far faster; but again, more and more people who vape seem to find that lowering their nicotine level, even in extreme jumps using the same device, is pretty easy, and doesn't leave them scratching at the walls.

        I myself accidentally went from 18mg to 6mg when I 'served myself' from the local shop (I wasn't theiving, owner was on the phone and they know me well, I didn't read the label) and I didn't realise for two days. Mostly it has a minor affect on the flavour - nicotine gives it some extra bite, something that can be replicated with some flavourings anyway.

        However, nicotine, inhaled, and mixed with all the other things in cigarettes (MAOIs, acetaldehydes - known to be addictive in rats, ammonia to make the nicotine freebase and even more rapidly taken into the system...) is certainly very addictive.

        Nicotine, in e-cigs, appears to be more a part of the habit forming cycle, giving a small chemical reward to the hand to mouth action and the visual feedback of vapour/smoke. If you are a smoker, try having a fag with your eyes closed; a shiny penny says it's not as enjoyable.

        This also explains why some of the more heavy hitting devices (like my RX200 and Griffin) are enjoyable to use; playing with the cloud is part of the fun of both smoking and vaping, and the heavier devices (generally needed for thicker liquids) tend to be very good at making thick, warm vapour. I won't deny I enjoy that, but in the same way that I like pulling away from tollbooths quickly and redlining the engine of my car through the gears; just because I enjoy it doesn't mean I do it everywhere ;-)

        The whole profile of addiction with regards to cigarette, and cigarette-esque devices really needs an overhaul given that nicotine use via inhalation now has a far less harmful delivery method; when it was just cigarettes, and they were the only (very dangerous) choice, it was fine to hyperbolise the risks as there was literally no harm to doing it, as the only way to get that 'hit' was from lit tobacco.

        But with e-cigs, there's a fairly - but not entirely, as nothing is - safe way of getting the satisfaction of inhaled nicotine, and to demonise it 'because nicotine' is probably a mistake, given how many people this could take away from the 50% of deaths in smokers caused directly by lit tobacco smoke inhalation, not to mention the three fires a day/half of all preventable deaths in fire caused directly by lit tobacco - and that's just in London.

        I'd love to see a large, double blind study of addictiveness in e-cigs. I reckon it'd be eyeopening.

        Steven R

        1. Cowboy Bob

          Re: The secret to giving up the toe rags...

          I've been vaping for over 2 years now, and my Dr has officially put me down as a non-smoker. I had my post-40 check up fairly recently and she reckons my organ functions are pretty much at the stage of someone who's never smoked. I'm apparently still more at risk of the big C due to having once smoked, but that risk comes down by the day.

  10. hypernovasoftware

    Smoked a pack a day from 70-78. Finally quit cold turkey on May 17, 1978.

    No patches, gum or help other than really wanting to quit.

    Quitting has paid for my BMW over the years.

    1. TeeCee Gold badge
      Coat

      Quitting has paid for my BMW ....

      I think I'll continue smoking if giving up turns you into a complete wanker.

      1. Steven Raith

        Joking aside, if I hadn't stopped smoking, I'd not have been able to insure my 'faster' car. I pay insurance monthly (direct debit) and it really opened my eyes as to what I could afford to insure, which is the main criteria if you have less than five years NCB and are under 40 ;-)

        If you're doing 20 a day or more and want to quit, do the math and see how you can apply that monthly saving to, say, monthly insurance payments, movie subscriptions, etc. Bored of driving a Micra? Quit smoking, insure and fuel something significantly more interesting with the savings!

        No matter how you quit, it's always interesting to know "what you could have won" but can't justify due to the cost of the smokes.

        Steven R

      2. hypernovasoftware

        My mother was from Germany. Buying a BMW helps me cope with losing her years ago.

        What's wrong with that?

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon