back to article Ad-blockers are a Mafia-style 'protection racket' – UK's Minister of Fun

UK Culture Minister John Whittingdale compared ad-blocking software to “a modern day protection racket” in his Oxford Media Convention keynote yesterday. But a study of the full text shows he would prefer to bang some sense into the ad industry, rather than shake down individuals using content filters in their web browsers. …

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  1. Electron Shepherd
    Unhappy

    Takes one to know one

    So, I buy a television, to which I plan to connect to a DVD player and games console only. Don't need a TV licence, do I?

    Let's see who comes knocking on the door, shall we?

    1. Cynical Observer

      Re: Takes one to know one

      From the Official TV Licensing website

      You need a valid TV Licence if you use TV receiving equipment to watch or record television programmes as they’re being shown on TV. ‘TV receiving equipment’ means any equipment which is used to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes a TV, computer, mobile phone, games console, digital box, DVD/VHS recorder or any other device.

      So... if you can demonstrably prove that you cannot receive a signal to the TV then yes, invite them to go whistle. Off course if you possess a device capable of watching through iPlayer at the same time as the programmes are being broadcast then you are back on the hook again.

      But to be fair, they do have a page where you can inform them that you do not require a licence.

      http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/telling-us-you-dont-need-a-tv-licence

      1. Steve Crook

        Re: Takes one to know one

        The operative word in that paragraph is "USE". If you can show them that, despite having the equipment, it's not actually in a position to use the service without significant effort, there's not much they can do.

        Otherwise we'd all be paying just because we own a computer.

        All of which points up just how much of an imposition this poll tax is. Subscriptions :-)

        1. Cynic_999

          Re: Takes one to know one

          "

          The operative word in that paragraph is "USE". If you can show them that, despite having the equipment, it's not actually in a position to use the service without significant effort, there's not much they can do.

          "

          Again, you have it the wrong way round. If they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that you *have actually* used the equipment to receive broadcast TV, you cannot be convicted. Just as with all other crime, in the UK there is no onus upon the suspect to prove that they are innocent.

      2. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Takes one to know one

        One minor quibble. It's not up to you to prove you cannot receive a signal. It's up to THEM to prove that you actually HAVE. It's perfectly LEGAL to own a tv hooked to a tv aerial with no license.

        Admittedly with no other reason for owning one you might have trouble convincing them to 'go whistle', but the fact remains, despite the behaviour of some tv licensing drones, the principle of 'innocent until proven otherwise' applies.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Takes one to know one

          Quite right. And if they send someone to your door you politely ask them to leave. If they can't see inside your house they can't prove you receive live TV Signals (unless perhaps you clearly have a brand new aerial/sky dish).

          You can also write a letter to TVL telling them that you revoke their assumed right of access to your front door. This means they would be tresspassing by knocking on your front door. This stops them from bothering you.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Takes one to know one

            It will be intimidation.

            If the RIAA/MAFIAA can turn up at private residences in the UK with a police escort, why can't the BBC?

            Or they will just send a demand for payment, followed by threats of bailiffs and fines in court.

            It will be bluff, but most people won't risk a fight with State approved racketeers.

            And once human rights are abolished, who knows what the outcome will be. Although the TV license will probably the least of your worries...

        2. peter_dtm
          FAIL

          @Martin-73

          NO

          you are licensed to posses RECEIVING equipment. Nothing in the licence actually presumes you actually use the equipment.

          In order to posses (television) receiving equipment you are required to have a suitable licence.

          A TV can be sat locked away in the basement; but if it is capable of being powered on then you need a licence (aerials are optional).

          Pedant note - you require a licence per HOUSEHOLD. Be careful here; the definition of a Household may surprise you (Student digs; 2nd house etc etc).

          So you will be whistling all the way to court if you think they have to prove you had the thing turned on. The old detector vans were used to detect the TV set; not if you were watching.

          Have ANY receiver section capable of receiving TV signals off air/satellite or in real time from the internet/other real time technology - then you need a TV licence; the receiver doesn't even have to be capable of displaying moving images; just the ability to recieve the audio sub carrier STILL REQUIRES A TV Licence.

          1. A Ghost

            Re: @Martin-73

            Have ANY receiver section capable of receiving TV signals off air/satellite or in real time from the internet/other real time technology - then you need a TV licence; the receiver doesn't even have to be capable of displaying moving images; just the ability to recieve the audio sub carrier STILL REQUIRES A TV Licence.

            That maybe so, but most people don't have 'receivers' or tv cards in their computer. I do not. I still watch iPlayer, but I don't legally need a license for that because of the loophole. If I watched live tv I would, but I don't, so I don't need it. I used to listen to the radio and sometimes even the BBC, but that doesn't need a license either. I no longer even turn the radio on because it is so offensive.

            So, having a computer and an internet connection capable of RECEIVING a live broadcast, DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE A TV LICENSE.

            Just thought I'd clear that up. You do NOT need a tv license to watch iPlayer on a computer as long as you do not watch in real time or watch any other live tv. Simple.

            I really do hope they close this loophole. Because it will just be another nail in the BBC's coffin.

            People have different views on this, and I'm ok with that. I resent being judged as immoral though just because, well, I don't like tv and I don't like any of the programs they make.

            At the end of the day, people are doing away with tv as a medium (the younger generation), so the bbc want to close the loophole. Good luck with that - getting kids to pay for the bbc. Another organisation that hasn't really thought this through and is just throwing its weight about.

            So just make sure you don't have a tv in your house or a tv card RECEIVER, and then you don't even have to talk to them. It's entirely up to them to catch you out and apply to a local judge to grant a search warrant to be enforced by the police. Can't imagine the police would be too happy with them doing that very often though. I'm sure they would do it all the time out of spite if they could, because they are a spiteful organisation - both bbc and capita. That would be like 3 hours of police time wasted if they came to my house.

            I would have to move stuff that there is no space to move it to - I would have to put it outside and then they would have to physically open up one of my ten or so computers, one at a time to check if it had a video card. I can not see the police or the magistrate being very happy at all about that waste of precious resources. Oh, you can investigate your own burglary, but we just sent 2 policemen on a jolly for 3-4 hours, because tv licensing got a bit uppity that no one replied to them when they were not even legally bound to reply in the first place. Go right ahead and be my guest. Like they say in the adverts: WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!

            The last time I wrote something like this, they were actually monitoring my internet connection and sent some goons around to give my door a hard knock THE VERY NEXT DAY. You paid for that in your license fee - harrassment of people who have done nothing wrong.

            You speak to me with a civil tongue in your head, and you will get back the same. You talk to me like I'm a piece of shit, I won't enter into dialogue with you. Simple as well. I wonder how much longer it will be before they knock on my door again. Probably tomorrow after reading this post. If they do, I'll be sure to let you know!

            1984 is here.

            1. peter_dtm

              Re: @Martin-73

              yes

              the whoie computer based thing is a massive thorn in their side.

              The dividing line is HOW you get the 'last mile' of tv viewing into your household. If it involves radio broadcast; or point to point radio link (does NOT include networking technologies.... at the moment (cynic) ) then it all falls under the Receiving apparatus clauses. If it comes in over the interwebs then you are in the live streaming clauses - live stream - need licence; delayed streaming - licence free.

              Yes capita is evil.

              Yes the RA will rouse out plod and confiscate illegal radio apparatus if you make a nuisance of yourself; and take you to court; fine you & bang you up if you are really naughty.

              Capita does not have any search & seizure rights; under certain circumstances the RA does (being the duly authorized body all the licences go on about)

            2. Vic

              Re: @Martin-73

              So, having a computer and an internet connection capable of RECEIVING a live broadcast, DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE A TV LICENSE.

              TV Licensing disagrees with you.

              Vic.

          2. David Neil

            Re: @Martin-73

            Incorrect, there have been legal victories by demonstrating that the set is not tuned to receive a signal

          3. TheOtherHobbes

            Re: @Martin-73

            >A TV can be sat locked away in the basement; but if it is capable of being powered on then you need a licence (aerials are optional).

            Nope. The legislation says clearly that it must be installed or used.

            Most magistrates won't be too impressed with any suggestion that sitting in a cupboard/basement with no aerial counts as installation, even if it's plugged in.

            Here's the exact wording:

            http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/363

            Of course technically this covers all computers with a browser, because you can stream BBC Live in a browser without iPlayer.

            I'm not aware of any test cases that cover this. Clearly if they did you wouldn't have a TV license but a computer license.

            This might not be a popular move. Even so, it's a valid legal argument given the wording.

            Of course the idea that TV license dodging is a criminal offence is insane anyway. There's no rational justification for it.

          4. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

            Re: @Martin-73

            So you will be whistling all the way to court if you think they have to prove you had the thing turned on. The old detector vans were used to detect the TV set; not if you were watching.

            Hahahaha. No. The old 'detector' vans were White Ford Transits with an aerial glued to the roof which were then driven around areas where they knew not many people would have a TV license (also known as poor areas), to scare people into buying one.

            1. Vic

              Re: @Martin-73

              Hahahaha. No. The old 'detector' vans were White Ford Transits with an aerial glued to the roof which were then driven around areas where they knew not many people would have a TV license (also known as poor areas), to scare people into buying one.

              Indeed.

              They did actually have the capability to determine which houses were watching which channels - there's enough leakage from the LO to tell with accuracy - but those vans did not contain that equipment; it wasn't needed.

              Vic.

          5. Cynic_999

            Re: @Martin-73

            "

            you are licensed to posses RECEIVING equipment. Nothing in the licence actually presumes you actually use the equipment.

            "

            Perhaps you should take the trouble to read the TV Licencing Act, whereupon you will discover that you are wronger than a wrong thing.

        3. Chronos
          Headmaster

          Re: Takes one to know one

          Martin-73 wrote: the principle of 'innocent until proven otherwise' applies.

          s/until/unless/ It's a subtle distinction but a very important one.

        4. Jess

          Re: It's perfectly LEGAL to own a tv hooked to a tv aerial with no license.

          No, it's not. (Or to be fair last time I owned a TV licence it wasn't).

          The licence stated for use or installation.

          (It is possible it has changed to avoid covering non TV equipment capable of using iPlayer on the internet.)

          1. streaky

            Re: It's perfectly LEGAL to own a tv hooked to a tv aerial with no license.

            Guys - the discussion is about UK licenses not German ones or whatever the hell you're all talking about.

            The license is for watching TV not owning and having one plugged in. Simple as that. No ifs/buts. Go read the act. Then go UNDERSTAND the WORDING of the act.

            Or failing that go read what the TVLA thinks it means. http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

      3. John70

        Just add what Cynical Observer has said...

        The "Minister of Fun" was also talking about the changes to the TV Licence regarding the iPlayer.

        Basically saying if you watch anything on iPlayer whether it's being broadcast live or not you will need a TV Licence. They are wanting to push this through Parliament as soon as possible.

        So I'm guessing that if any device has iPlayer on it, time to cough up the TV tax.

      4. Cynic_999

        Re: Takes one to know one

        "

        ... if you can demonstrably prove that you cannot receive a signal to the TV ...

        "

        Wrong. As much as TV licencing want you to believe otherwise, the onus is still upon the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you deliberately used a receiver to show or record a TV program that was being broadcast at the time. Proof that you have the apparatus and capability to do so will no more result in a conviction than proof that you have the apparatus and capability to kill someone would get you convicted of murder.

        If you are stupid enough to invite a TV licencing inspector into your home, and that person switches on your TV set and notes that it immediately displays a broadcast TV program, then note that the only offence was committed by the licencing inspector himself, not you! Because it is not illegal to own a TV set that is ready and capable of receiving broadcast TV, the offence is of *operating* (or installing) the set that is not covered by a licence.

        There is also no more a requirement to advise TV licencing that you do not need a TV licence than there is to advise the fisheries department that you do not require a fishing license, or to advise the DVLA that you do not require an HGV driving license.

        1. peter_dtm

          @Cynic_999

          NO and NO again

          It is the APPARATUS that is licensed. Whether it is plugged in; has an aerial attached does not matter. It does not matter whether you 'operate' it or not. (now go and think about Vehicle Excise duty; I am sure you wouldn't try to make the same claim?)

          They only have to prove you have on your premises (actually worse than that in your household) an apparatus for receiving TV signals (and note the apparatus does not have to be able to decode said TV signals).

          What they do not have is ANY right of entry or inspection. To get access to your household requires a warrant.

          The requirement to have a license to watch live streaming over the internet (or any other method of distribution) has been ADDED to the Television license; as your PC is not (in terms of the Radio Regulations) receiving apparatus.

          OfCom used to have a copy of the Television Receiving Apparatus licence on their website

          1. arctic_haze
            FAIL

            Re: @Cynic_999

            "They only have to prove you have on your premises (actually worse than that in your household) an apparatus for receiving TV signals (and note the apparatus does not have to be able to decode said TV signals)."

            This can't be true. Any piece of wire is enough to receive a microwave signal. Well, so is water, meat (that's why microwave ovens work) and even yourself.

            Of course a TV dinner will not decode the TV signal. But it does receive it. So it needs a license!!!

            1. peter_dtm

              Re: @Cynic_999

              Nope

              a piece of wire is not an apparatus. Nor is your brain - although there is evidence that indicates it may interact with certain frequencies of radio waves.

              Apparatus - (in this case) equipment designed and/or built to recover information from radio waves.

              So take your bit of wire; wind some of it into a coil with a capacitor in parallel; connect that to a 'crystal' (diode)and connect that to a pair of high impedance high sensitive earphone - you have just built a crystal set - apparatus for the reception of radio waves. It all needs to be put together to make it 'apparatus'. They don't get all pedantic over what words they use for nothing.

              You may by now wonder what the difference between a household & a house is (or even premises ) - a household has been found by the courts to include a rented room in a house where the person renting did not live with the rest of the people in the house as a common community - and was thus illegally in possession of a television set contrary to the licensing laws.....

          2. Vic

            Re: @Cynic_999

            It is the APPARATUS that is licensed. Whether it is plugged in; has an aerial attached does not matter. It does not matter whether you 'operate' it or not.

            TV Licensing disagrees with you:

            You need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record programmes as they're being shown on TV or live on an online TV service. This is the case whether you use a TV, computer, tablet, mobile phone, games console, digital box, DVD/VHS recorder or any other device.

            Of course, they might just be lying...

            Vic.

        2. A Ghost
          Thumb Up

          Re: @ Cynic_999

          Actually that is right.

          I know because I nearly borrowed a tv/video off my mum for the purpose of playing back some vhs tapes with a view to digitizing them (for which I would have to buy a tv card and be marked as such after doing so).

          In the end, I decided against it and have no tv on my property, as I have not had this century - literally. But there is no law that says you can not look after your mum's tv if her house burns down. That is legal. It only becomes illegal when you use it to watch live tv (you can legally own a tv to just watch videos and this has precedent in law where someone claimed just this and got off), without already having a license.

          Again, they have to prove that you have broken the law. You do not have to prove you are innocent. Yet!

          If I was forced to pay the bbc a tax, I would switch off my internet connection (which I am in the process of doing anyway. You would need to hold a gun to my head for me to give these scumbags a penny. The savile whitewash travesty was the last straw for me and this is where I draw a line in the sand. They have dumbed down to nothing now anyway. No great loss.

          1. Suricou Raven

            Re: @ Cynic_999

            Don't be sure quick to dismiss the BBC. They have certainly dumbed down in some respects, but their documentary content is still among the best in the world - and no ancient aliens from them.

            1. Jagged

              Re: @ Cynic_999

              Yes, their documentaries are "mostly" still good. I put this down to the fact they keep a number of older presenters around (like the great David Attenborough). Watch some of the newer intake of presenters on different subjects (dare I mention Click?) and it can be pretty awful.

              And lets not mention the Humphries/Paxxman style interviewing which has taken over BBC1 and Radio4, which I consider an insult to the intelligence of everyone involved, interviewee and audience alike :(

        3. Trigonoceps occipitalis

          Re: Takes one to know one

          "Proof that you have the apparatus and capability to do so will no more result in a conviction than proof that you have the apparatus and capability to kill someone would get you convicted of murder."

          You, Sir, have touching faith in the Magistrates who can be massively pragmatic when adjudicating.

      5. A Ghost

        Re: Takes one to know one

        You are under no legal obligation to enter into any form of contact with them. Verbal or written.

        It is not up to you to prove your innocence, it is up to them to prove your guilt. They can apply for a search warrant and the police to come knocking if they have reason to believe you are breaking the law. Happens all the time.

        I keep a fishing rod in my cupboard, but I don't fish without a license. I don't have people knocking on my door saying 'ooh, you have a fishing rod, you must therefore fish illegally'.

        I am only going by and respecting the law as it stands. I am only repeating freely available information. You do not have to enter into any discourse with these people, even if they knock on your door. Just tell them to remove themselves from your property or you will call the police.

        N.B. I do not advocate breaking the laws of the land. If it is legally necessary for you to buy a license, you must do so. If it is not, then you have nothing to worry about, and you don't have to waste a second of your precious life on them.

        Since when did the country turn into a totalitarian dictatorship?

        (oh, last week, I forgot)

        And anyway, why is this whole Ad-Blocker/BBC license bullshit being conflated? Has no one else noticed this? Are they trying to say using an Ad-Blocker is like watching the BBC without a license via catchup via iPlayer (you don't need a license for that). Mentally deranged, except they know exactly what they are doing.

        1. peter_dtm

          @ A Ghost

          NO

          you need a fishing licence to go fishing. You do not need to have a fishing licence to have apparatus for fishing in your possession - but I wouldn't give you much chance in the courts if you took your fishing apparatus for a walk near a canal/river/lake

          You do however need a licence for Television Receiving Apparatus if your household has a piece of equipment capable of receiving broadcast television signals OR if you use apparatus to view live broadcast content in real time. (just look closely at that OR statement; watching on PCs is NOT the same as watching a goggle box)

          You need to Tax your car whether you use it or not (unless you have a SORN notice) - there is NO equivalent of SORN for TV receiving apparatus. You have it in your household you are supposed to licence it.

          Why do so many people get this wrong every few months

          A TV licence is a licence to have in your possession apparatus capable of receiving broadcast TV signals.

          No; it does not have to be turned on. It does not need an aerial attached. The fuse in the plug can be removed. It just has to be capable of being energised.

          However; you MAY NOT need a TV licence if you have an Amateur Radio licence and you can demonstrate you do not use your TV receiver to receive broadcast signals; and have it purely for experimental reasons for the furtherance of your technical investigations. And; of course; you can demonstrate the same for any other TV set in your household. For the man in the street that is about the only legal way of not needing a licence when there is a TV set in the household (OK so most 'Man in the Street' types do not have Amateur Radio Licences).

          1. A Ghost
            Thumb Up

            Re: @peter_dtm

            Yes. That is exactly what I said. You were totally agreeing with me, but thought I made the opposite point.

            Ah, the internet... I gave you an upvote though.

            No worries, we're both on the same page. I know this inside out as I am actually being harrassed by them. In fact, I am even prepared for them to get a court order. So my hands are clean and I'm ready for anything they can throw at me. But I'm not low-hanging fruit, so maybe they will leave me alone. I expect the police at any time though.

            Oh, and I don't really have a fishing rod either.

          2. A Ghost
            Thumb Down

            Re: @ peter_dtm

            You do however need a licence for Television Receiving Apparatus if your household has a piece of equipment capable of receiving broadcast television signals OR if you use apparatus to view live broadcast content in real time. (just look closely at that OR statement; watching on PCs is NOT the same as watching a goggle box)

            Could you point me to the actual legislation on this, because as I understand it, what you say is blatantly wrong. That is why I changed my upvote to a downvote for you as I agreed with your first point, but not this.

            I am 99 percent sure you DO NOT need a license just to have Television Receiving Apparatus in your home. I could just be buying a present in the form of a tv card for my brother for example, yet not have a tv or a computer to run it. Apart from that, I might buy the whole tv/computer/tv card kit and caboodle for him, if it is wrapped up in cellophane, who the hell could successfully prosecute a case against me? I would not admit anything to them (they would have to catch me first) and deny the whole matter. They would then have the onus upon them to prove in a court of law that I had broken the law. It's illegal to have a boxed AK-47 in your airing cupboard, but not a boxed tv or tv receiver.

            That is why I was so confident of actually putting a tv on my property, even if the goons called with the police. I honestly do not watch tv. I am innocent. But I refuse to have to prove my innocence whilst there is no actual law that says I have to.

            Dealing drugs is illegal. I don't have to let the police into my house to do a drug search every week just to prove to them that I am 'clean'. Well, I probably would if it was the police. But the tv inspectors (sorry for calling you goons, I'm sure you have mouths to feed like everyone else) do not have that power.

            And it comes to something when you are being followed around the internet by these 'people' and you feel the need to say - PLEASE DON'T BREAK MY DOOR DOWN, I DON'T HAVE A TV HONEST - because the bastards are stalking me. That must be an even better job than knocking on people's doors.

            I wonder how my doctor will react tomorrow when she asks me how my paranoia is doing. I shall tell her I am feeling much better, but that I have to waste my time writing messages to the TV PEOPLE WHO ARE STALKING AND FOLLOWING ME ON THE INTERWEBZ. I am curious how she will react.

            "You mean, you are actually being stalked by real people, that work for the TV licensing authority?"

            "Yes, they check everything I write on public internet forums and if I mention them at all, they knock on my door the next day, really hard".

            "Really?"

            "Yes"

            I wonder if they will still think I am suffering from paranoia then?

            Btw, I don't suffer from paranoia, I don't have a tv, and I most certainly do not have a fishing rod. Oh, and no AK-47 either. I checked with the police to see if it was ok if I got a license for one, and after a short pause to think about it, a slight tilt of the head to the right, and what I could have sworn was a bit of a stifled smirk, the officer of the law in question, just smiled back at me, as I was briskly wheeled away by 'nursie' again...

            In all seriousness, I would like to see that legislation, as I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. But I'm happy to be proved wrong...

            1. peter_dtm
              Coat

              Re: @ peter_dtm

              it is all governed by various treaties actually. The government currently hold you Radio Receiving Apparatus licence for you (with no charge).

              All 'radio' apparatus is required to be licensed. OfCom/the Radio Agency used to have a sample copy of the tv licence lying around somewhere on their web site. You may also note that I pedantically use the term apparatus as the definition is in the capability of the equipment. Note that radio apparatus for receiving Broadcast Television signals has an added section regarding the use of computer equipment to receive real time streaming of broadcast material that is in addition to and different from the (original) clauses referring to the use of apparatus for receiving television broadcast signals. Needless to say I can not put my hands on the latest iteration of the TV licence; but I did throw out an old 70s era licence a few months ago....

              Your present of a COMPONENT of receiving apparatus (the sim card/TV card you refer to) does not require a licence because it is not Apparatus for the receiving of broadcast television signals; it is also NOT apparatus used for streaming video. It is merely an decrypt key that is not specific to radio apparatus at all

              Even so called licence free PMR radios (or radio equipment of very low power) are technically exempt from requiring the issuing of a licence (note again not exempt from a licence...).

              All radio equipment (radios; TVs; PMR walkie talkies; mobile telephones; wireless routers etc) are made to (international) standards and work in either specific bands or on spot frequencies. Where exempt from licensing you can go buy & use to your hearts content. Use some of the non licence exempt frequencies (the vast majority of the radio spectrum) and you need a licence to HAVE the equipment in your possession. People who are allowed to 'play' with radio equipment always have to have a licence OR are legally limited in what they are allowed to do. So I am licensed to operate; repair and experiment with radio apparatus for the Amateur Radio Bands (see relevant Radio treaties and regulations eg BR68 which is the Amateur Radio Licence issued by the Radio Agency). Someone doing business repairing PMR radios either has their own licence to work on certified equipment - or works under (cough cough) supervision of a duly licensed person.

              I guess I didn't end up pointing you to a copy of your TV licence - but troll through the assorted different types of licence on the Radio Agency/OfCom web sites & you will soon get the feeling about how it all works. That is; if you can stand the turgid, pedantic and recondite language used.

              As an illustration; the Radio Agency does not normally prosecute people who end up with Amateur Radio apparatus because their licensed partner/parent/guardian/child died - but they don't expect them to hang on to the kit (or use it !) indefinitely either.

              In summary :

              By international treaty (IIRC started with the Convention of London around 1911) ALL radio apparatus must be licensed.

              Some apparatus using defined frequency bands may be made licence exempt

              Some governments (UK US etc) hold licences on your behalf (eg broadcast radio receivers which are still licensed as they do not operate in an exempt band)

              BR68 is an example of a radio licence - other examples are available on either OfCom or Radio Agency web sites

              1. Jess

                Re: it is all governed by various treaties actually.

                So what you are saying is technically all radio kit needs a licence.

                The only licence you can get for TVs covers installation and use.

                You cannot get one for simple ownership alone.

                However owning a TV that isn't installed is outside TVL's remit, and would have to be prosecuted under a different law, which would be the same as say having any other unused non exempt radio receiver.

                I have never heard of such a case, the nearest thing would be CB radio in the 80s.

                I believe the licence includes a right to inspect equipment within reasonable hours (it used to) therefore no licence, no right of entry. Licence, no need of entry (except monochrome licences where they think there is a colour TV, but that shows how long ago I last had a TV)

              2. Vic

                Re: @ peter_dtm

                All 'radio' apparatus is required to be licensed

                That's trivially disproved by the existence of ISM-band kit.

                Needless to say I can not put my hands on the latest iteration of the TV licence

                You can't put your hands on a version of the licence that supports your argument because it doesn't exist. I'm not certain if what you calim was ever true - but it isn't now. You appear to be quoting the Amateur Radio licence coditions - where the licence covers both apparatus and operator - but that is a very different situation to TV licensing.

                BR68 is an example of a radio licence - other examples are available

                Find a link to demostrate that your view of TV licensing is correct - because so far, you've written a lot of words but have provided absolutely no evidence to support your assertion whatsoever.

                Vic.

            2. Graham Dawson Silver badge

              Re: @ A Ghost

              TVL's own page clarifies it quite nicely.

              "If you own or possess a television set without installing or using it as a TV receiver (e.g. you only use it to watch videos or DVDs, or as a monitor for a games console) then you don’t need a TV Licence."

              1. peter_dtm

                @Graham Dawson

                quote

                TVL's own page clarifies it quite nicely.

                /quote

                TVL are not the courts (nor are they Parliament) and have no legal standing to make this statement - OfCom told them off about this years ago; but they persist in miss-representing the situation.

                The law is specific - if some apparatus is capable of receiving broadcast tv signals then you require a TV licence. However TVL and their attack dogs Capita MAY DECIDE NOT TO TAKE ACTION.

                The licensing laws remain on the books AND ARE STILL ENFORCEABLE.

                TVL should say something like this :

                If you own or possess a television set without installing or using it as a TV receiver (e.g. you only use it to watch videos or DVDs, or as a monitor for a games console) then ....... WE WILL TAKE NO ACTION if you do not have a tv licence

                sorry.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: @Graham Dawson

                  peter_dtm you are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY WRONG.

                  What you are saying was the law DECADES ago.

                  Like most things, it has changed.

                  The Law was changed by ACT OF PARLIAMENT

                  So that it is the RECEIVING of LIVE tv broadcasts that now requires a TV LICENCE

                  Ownering equipment NO LONGER is the determining factor. It was the LABOUR government who changed this. Get with the times.

                  PLEASE do your research again.

                  1. gazthejourno (Written by Reg staff)

                    Re: Re: @Graham Dawson

                    Less of the rantiness please.

          3. Graham Dawson Silver badge

            @peter_dtm

            NO (to coin a phrase)

            The TV license doesn't cover the equipment, it covers the live broadcast reception. If your television is installed and used to receive live television broadcasts then you need the license. This includes time-shifting - recording and playback later. If your television is installed for the intent of playing back pre-recorded video then you do not need a license. I know this, because I've had a television for the last decade and not paid a TV license - because I don't watch live television. I don't record television. I don't even use iplayer, live or otherwise. I watch DVDs, I play games, sometimes I watch youtube. I've checked this with TVL themselves and they reluctantly agreed that I don't need a license (though they still send me their threatening letters every so often).

            The license is not for the equipment, but for the use you put it to.

            1. peter_dtm

              @Grahma Dawson

              The TV licence is a licence to posses apparatus capable of receiving broadcast tv signals.

              The USE of such apparatus creates the ACT of live broadcast reception.

              In order to record a (TV) broadcast receiving apparatus has to receive broadcast TV signals. The mere hapanstance of being recorded instead of playing to an empty room or being watched is totally irrelevant; the information you recorded was RECIEVED from a BROADCAST tv signal using receiving apparatus. Said apparatus requires a licence.

              If you take an off air capable video recorder (or satellite box) - you need a licence unless you cripple the off air receiving section; in which case no one cares & you can play your betamax; vhs or hitatchi system videos or mpg3/mpg4/html5 streams all day long.

              Because I hold various radio licences & various certificates of competency; I MAY get away with shorting the aerial input on a video recorder/satellite box and not need a licence for any (TV) receiving apparatus in my possession; but I would need a damned good reason (fixing it for a mate may pass muster).

              Tell Capita to go away - and as advised elsewhere tell them they have no right of entry to your property and to stop harassing you. As long as you have no apparatus capable of receiving broadcast TV signals you are legal - as long as you don't stream off the interwebs in real time either

              1. Vic

                Re: @Grahma Dawson

                The TV licence is a licence to posses apparatus capable of receiving broadcast tv signals.

                This is not true.

                I hold various radio licences & various certificates of competency

                Then you should read those licences. The conditions for one do not necessarily pertain to any other.

                Vic.

          4. Vic

            Re: @ A Ghost

            You do however need a licence for Television Receiving Apparatus if your household has a piece of equipment capable of receiving broadcast television signals OR if you use apparatus to view live broadcast content in real time. (just look closely at that OR statement; watching on PCs is NOT the same as watching a goggle box)

            [Citation needed] - for all of the above, as it differs completely form what TV Licensing says.

            Why do so many people get this wrong every few months

            Perhaps it's because they're all going by what the licensing authority says, rather than what some unknown bloke on the Internet insists is true.

            You've made some extraordinary claims in this thread. They differ markedly from the official advice. Perhaps now would be a good time to start substantiating your argument...

            Vic.

      6. BebopWeBop

        Re: Takes one to know one

        Have you tried using their 'I don't watch live TV service'. Even without a beer, I found myself committed to another reminder in 1 months time.

      7. streaky

        Re: Takes one to know one

        But to be fair, they do have a page where you can inform them that you do not require a licence.

        http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/telling-us-you-dont-need-a-tv-licence

        IANYL but I strongly recommend not using this, it only causes them to hound you more. In my experience it's best to ignore them until they show up with a warrant. This is of course if you're not actually watching TV, if you are and you just don't want to pay this advice will cause you more problems.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Takes one to know one

      What's this got to do with an article about ad-blocking software???

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Takes one to know one

        [@ Credas, what does this have to do with the article:]

        The same speech included some crud about extending the outdated 'tv license' to everything down to your digital watch (which are still a pretty neat idea)

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Takes one to know one

          Yep, two Reg articles about different subjects, but based on the same speech by the Culture Secretary. This little sub thread belongs under the *other* Reg article, the one about the BBC, not this one which is about ad-blockers.

          Ah well, it is nearly Friday!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Takes one to know one

      "So, I buy a television, to which I plan to connect to a DVD player and games console only. Don't need a TV licence, do I?"

      Are you going to use multiplayer on that games console? Then good luck! Dunno how it is in your country, but here you usually get "all in one" packages. So you want Internet? Good, you'll get it with a phone and television subscription.

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